Wasn't Mickey the one to banish Pete?

[AwesomeKHfan 1,250]

I know this has been asked before but whatever here we go again.

 

I'm playing through Birth By Sleep again and than I remembered in KH2 when Goofy told you that Mickey banished pete.

 

• Retcon?
• Error?
• Do I need to read all reports and journals in KH2 again 0_0?
• Naminé messed up?
• Goofy is being Goofy -_-
• Goofi is being Goofy because lazy writing -__-

Edit: How do Donald and Goofy not know Yen Sid lives in the tower did he never told them that?

Can somebody clear the hole Yen Sid tower thing for me in full details please.

[Joker 1,560]

Well Goofy wasn't there when it happened. Or it could be a different event then what was shown in BBS. I mean were they really planning to keep Pete in there for ten years?

[Dustin Newton 60]

Goofy has no way of knowing who truly banished pete. he might not be talking about the event of BBS. The only thing it could possibly be is a retcon.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

The answer to that is............

 

.............

 

...........

 

.......look! A ninja-style dancer!

 

Seriously though, they have given no explanation for this. Forgetting a tower you haven't been to in 10 years is one thing, but completely missing a detail like who banished whom? That's kind of a big deal. Maybe you could argue that as a royal couple, anything Mickey or Minnie do can be considered a decision of the monarchy. Like I'm sure Minnie believed that at this point Mickey would have stopped giving him more chances and would have done away with him if he was there. So even if one of them makes that call, it's like they're both making it. However I have absolutely no idea how monarchies work, let alone ones that are run solely by a monarch, so I have no idea if this is based in fact or not. Another explanation I came up with is that in order to keep up Minnie's more forgiving kindly nature, Mickey took credit for banishing Pete...but then there were a whole bunch of witnesses there who all seemed to believe that it was the right thing to do, so that makes even less sense.

 

Another good thing to point out is that Donald and Goofy were never present while that was happening. There's always a chance that either Mickey and Minnie told them differently about what happened or Donald and Goofy just simply drew their own interpretations and misjudged what happened.

 

But the more realistic explanation, this was years before Birth By Sleep was in anyone's hands, Pete hadn't been introduced before, and with Mickey jumping around all over the place in BBS they had to explain Pete getting banished somehow, so they retcon that line and make it Minnie instead who did it. I'm not sure if I would call it lazy writing per say, as when you think about it making Mickey just suddenly stop in Disney Town to use his authority to banish Pete is kind of a pace-breaker, especially when he's got to take off later and everything.

 

On the other hand, it was just kind of thrown out there in KH2 as exposition that we were just supposed to accept, as we had no idea there would be a bunch of prequels on the horizon at the time, so I guess you could chalk it up to poor planning? I don't know, this just sort of proves that while Nomura does have some ideas and details planned out ahead of the next few games in the series, he is still making most of it as he goes. BBS wasn't a full story while he was making KH2, so I doubt he had a fully fleshed out idea of how exactly Pete's exile was going to go right as he was thinking up Sora's visit to Mysterious Tower. It's just a sign that as pre-planned as most of this series' events are, it's still just kind of building itself at it's own pace. Thankfully there's only a few mistakes and plot holes here and there that I really notice, cause otherwise it's still a pretty well-tied together narrative.

[AwesomeKHfan 1,250]

The answer to that is............

 

.............

 

...........

 

.......look! A ninja-style dancer!

 

Seriously though, they have given no explanation for this. Forgetting a tower you haven't been to in 10 years is one thing, but completely missing a detail like who banished whom? That's kind of a big deal. Maybe you could argue that as a royal couple, anything Mickey or Minnie do can be considered a decision of the monarchy. Like I'm sure Minnie believed that at this point Mickey would have stopped giving him more chances and would have done away with him if he was there. So even if one of them makes that call, it's like they're both making it. However I have absolutely no idea how monarchies work, let alone ones that are run solely by a monarch, so I have no idea if this is based in fact or not. Another explanation I came up with is that in order to keep up Minnie's more forgiving kindly nature, Mickey took credit for banishing Pete...but then there were a whole bunch of witnesses there who all seemed to believe that it was the right thing to do, so that makes even less sense.

 

Another good thing to point out is that Donald and Goofy were never present while that was happening. There's always a chance that either Mickey and Minnie told them differently about what happened or Donald and Goofy just simply drew their own interpretations and misjudged what happened.

 

But the more realistic explanation, this was years before Birth By Sleep was in anyone's hands, Pete hadn't been introduced before, and with Mickey jumping around all over the place in BBS they had to explain Pete getting banished somehow, so they retcon that line and make it Minnie instead who did it. I'm not sure if I would call it lazy writing per say, as when you think about it making Mickey just suddenly stop in Disney Town to use his authority to banish Pete is kind of a pace-breaker, especially when he's got to take off later and everything.

 

On the other hand, it was just kind of thrown out there in KH2 as exposition that we were just supposed to accept, as we had no idea there would be a bunch of prequels on the horizon at the time, so I guess you could chalk it up to poor planning? I don't know, this just sort of proves that while Nomura does have some ideas and details planned out ahead of the next few games in the series, he is still making most of it as he goes. BBS wasn't a full story while he was making KH2, so I doubt he had a fully fleshed out idea of how exactly Pete's exile was going to go right as he was thinking up Sora's visit to Mysterious Tower. It's just a sign that as pre-planned as most of this series' events are, it's still just kind of building itself at it's own pace. Thankfully there's only a few mistakes and plot holes here and there that I really notice, cause otherwise it's still a pretty well-tied together narrative.

I remember something about that Sora was supposed to be the main protagonist of BBS and than re chain of memories happened

Edited July 15, 2016 by AwesomeKHfan

[Felixx 6,646]

One word: retcon.

 

Or 2 words: Nomura logic.

 

Pick one

[AwesomeKHfan 1,250]

One word: retcon.

 

Or 2 words: Nomura logic.

 

Pick one

NOMURA LOGIC

Edited July 15, 2016 by AwesomeKHfan

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

That whole cutscene is a plot hole! Donald and Goofy not knowing Yin Sid lived there, Pete being banished, and I feel Pete just in general.

I know this has been asked before but whatever here we go again.

 

I'm playing through Birth By Sleep again and than I remembered in KH2 when Goofy told you that Mickey banished him.

 

• Retcon?
• Error?
• Do I need to read all reports and journals in KH2 again 0_0?
• Naminé messed up?
• Goofy is being Goofy -_-
• Goofi is being Goofy because lazy writing -__-

Edit: How do Donald and Goofy not know Yen Sid lives in the tower did he never told them that?

Can somebody clear the hole Yen Sid tower thing for me in full details please.

But to be honest, my head canon is that Namine messed up since Donald and Goofy weren't her full focus.

[NoWay 63]

That's strange.. Maybe its just a translation mistake because in the German KH2 version Goofy said that "your majesty" banished Pete. And your majesty could also refer to Minny..

[AwesomeKHfan 1,250]

That's strange.. Maybe its just a translation mistake because in the German KH2 version Goofy said that "your majesty" banished Pete. And your majesty could also refer to Minny..

 

21:53 untill 21:03

Edited July 15, 2016 by AwesomeKHfan

[NoWay 63]

untill 21:03

Oh well my mistake

[AwesomeKHfan 1,250]

Oh well my mistake

Ah don't worry I be checking the Dutch version later just to be sure :smile:

Edited July 15, 2016 by AwesomeKHfan

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

I remember something about that Sora was supposed to be the main protagonist of BBS and than re chain of memories happened

Well this is kind of irrelevant, but basically the demo/prototype of what was to eventually become BBS was originally using Sora as the playable character, you know since the last 3 games by that point used him. The engine was meant to be used on the PS2 originally but somewhere along the line the decision was made to put it on the PSP for whatever reasons they had for that at the time. My memory is a little blurry on how exactly Re:CoM affected things, but since the team that worked on the last two PS2 KH titles was being relegated to FFXV (then known as Versus XIII) they decided to form a secondary team to work on most of the titles that came out after KH2. Instead of continuing straight with what would later be known as BBS, they went with making Re:CoM first and that got packaged with KH2 Final Mix. Their work on Re:CoM would be what influenced many of their work in the titles that followed, most predominantly with BBS and DDD. Some fans express their distaste with how their gameplay and physics feel, but honestly I think they're just fine and there's nothing wrong with it. Yes the KH2 speedy combat stuff was pretty fun, but we're talking about the difference between gameplay on a home console and gameplay on a hand-held system. I think the work they were able to get done on those is nothing short of extraordinary and they work very well for what they supposed to be, experimental evolution of the previous familiar gameplay from each previous title. Anyway, Re:CoM's only real relevance in the matter was that the team had to make that first before they could really continue making significant progress with BBS. One project got favored over another, and that's pretty much how it went.

 

Also, as I mentioned before, the Yen Sid tower thing can just be chalked up to faulty memory. Nomura explained in an interview that not everyone remembers everything from ten years ago in their lives. I mean that's why Sora, Riku, and Kairi don't really acknowledge Terra, Aqua, or Ventus in any games prior to BBS, the interactions were years ago, brief, and of course they were freaking toddlers. How many people out there remember with perfect detail every random encounter they ever had when they were 4 years old? Likewise, the same can apply to the Tower. Donald and Goofy were presumably only there that one time in BBS, so they probably haven't ever had a real reason to return there since then, so KH2 would be the first time they've ever had to return in all that time. Now what's noteworthy here is that they don't forget who Yen Sid is, just where he lives. Again, BBS wasn't fully written yet, so that's the real world reason why Donald and Goofy were surprised about Yen Sid's dwelling, but still within a in-universe perspective, it still makes sense that if you have been somewhere only once from ten or more years ago and you've never had to go back there sense, odds are you wouldn't remember your previous presence there right away.

 

Like I've been to Florida before as a 7 year old to go to Walt Disney World. I remember the big deal stuff that mattered, like theme parks and some beaches, but I don't exactly remember the details of other things, like which hotel we stayed at, what it looked like, what foods we ate (apart from an ill-conceived attempt to each a mountain of ice cream and getting sick later), and what other places we checked out. Memory you see can be kind of selective. Our mind will remember some details that it considers to be most important while other details that aren't given that honor kind of fade away from conscious memory. So while Goofy and Donald remember the most important thing about their previous visits with Yen Sid, namely the master himself and his teachings to Mickey, they didn't hold onto the relatively unimportant detail of where he lived. Plus, yeah you could also chalk it up to them still being relatively hazed from awakening from a year of sleep with a good chunk of their memory still mysteriously missing, but at least forgetting what someone's dwelling looks like is a lot more acceptable than mistaking who banished whom without even being present for it.

[Endless Thundaga 533]

Goofy said "His majesty" banished him. In other words, it could mean that either Pete's king or queen banished him.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

18: Why was Pete put in prison?

It was a punishment for stepping on the hearts of others. 



In KHII Pete tells us he was saved from prison by Maleficent. The 
reason he was put there was because during the Dream Festival he said
 things that showed he cared little for the hearts of others

 

 

In the Japanese copy, Goofy said that Pete was locked up in a prison by 王様ō-sama which means "king" ("queen" would be 女王様 jo'ō-sama, and i believe that's also how they correctly refer to minnie), so I really think this is a mistake on the writing team's part instead of the translation team's since the minor issue was always present even in the original Japanese game.

 

As for the other part about the tower I will leave this stuff here lol

 

• In this title, the dark influence of the Heartless isn’t breaking down the walls between worlds, so in this period before Gummi Ships, why are Donald and Goofy able to travel to the Mysterious Tower?

You can think of it as being thanks to Yen Sid, and also because the Mysterious Tower is a loophole world in the first place, so it comes under slightly different rules than the ones that connect the other worlds. By the way, when Donald and Goofy visit the Mysterious Tower in “KHII”, they say, “Master Yen Sid lives here!?” even though they’ve already been there in “KH BbS”. This is because the floors are constructed differently to the previous time they visited, which is strange (laughs).

 

In between worlds can alter themselves to fulfill their purpose when needed.

Oh Nomura

 

 

YEN SID REDECORATED DARNIT!!!!!!

[Felixx 6,646]

 

18: Why was Pete put in prison?

It was a punishment for stepping on the hearts of others. 



In KHII Pete tells us he was saved from prison by Maleficent. The 
reason he was put there was because during the Dream Festival he said
 things that showed he cared little for the hearts of others

 

 

In the Japanese copy, Goofy said that Pete was locked up in a prison by 王様ō-sama which means "king" ("queen" would be 女王様 jo'ō-sama, and i believe that's also how they correctly refer to minnie), so I really think this is an error/mistake on the writing team's part instead of the translation team's since the minor issue was always present even in the original Japanese game.

 

As for the other part about the tower I will leave this stuff here lol

 

• In this title, the dark influence of the Heartless isn’t breaking down the walls between worlds, so in this period before Gummi Ships, why are Donald and Goofy able to travel to the Mysterious Tower?

You can think of it as being thanks to Yen Sid, and also because the Mysterious Tower is a loophole world in the first place, so it comes under slightly different rules than the ones that connect the other worlds. By the way, when Donald and Goofy visit the Mysterious Tower in “KHII”, they say, “Master Yen Sid lives here!?” even though they’ve already been there in “KH BbS”. This is because the floors are constructed differently to the previous time they visited, which is strange (laughs).

 

In between worlds can alter themselves to fulfill their purpose when needed.

Oh Nomura 

 

 

YEN SID REDECORATED DARNIT!!!!!!

 

We all blamed Nomura, but it was Yen Sid's love for redecorating! It all makes sense.

[Xiro 3,468]

I always thought it was all retcons, seeing as they made the prequel after the sequel.

 

As for the other part about the tower I will leave this stuff here lol

 

• In this title, the dark influence of the Heartless isn’t breaking down the walls between worlds, so in this period before Gummi Ships, why are Donald and Goofy able to travel to the Mysterious Tower?

You can think of it as being thanks to Yen Sid, and also because the Mysterious Tower is a loophole world in the first place, so it comes under slightly different rules than the ones that connect the other worlds. By the way, when Donald and Goofy visit the Mysterious Tower in “KHII”, they say, “Master Yen Sid lives here!?” even though they’ve already been there in “KH BbS”. This is because the floors are constructed differently to the previous time they visited, which is strange (laughs).

 

In between worlds can alter themselves to fulfill their purpose when needed.

Oh Nomura

 

 

YEN SID REDECORATED DARNIT!!!!!!

 

Although... Okay, I do remember that the layouts actually are different. But doesn't the outside of the tower remain unchanged? The "Yen Sid lives here?" line is outside the tower, sooo yeah. I mean, if the outside had changed then you could chalk it to redecoration, but I can't really tell the difference myself .-.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I always thought it was all retcons, seeing as they made the prequel after the sequel.

 

Although... Okay, I do remember that the layouts actually are different. But doesn't the outside of the tower remain unchanged? The "Yen Sid lives here?" line is outside the tower, sooo yeah. I mean, if the outside had changed then you could chalk it to redecoration, but I can't really tell the difference myself .-.

 

They do change the outside here and there but that shouldn't be a shocker considering the nature of them being adaptable and ever changing to suit it's purpose as It's an inbetween world. ( think of Traverse Town) Below is a comparison...There are changes but nothing earth shattering.

[Xiro 3,468]

They do change the outside here and there but that shouldn't be a shocker considering the nature of them being adaptable and ever changing to suit it's purpose as It's an inbetween world. ( think of Traverse Town) Below is an comparison...There are changes but nothing earth shattering.

 

 

Er, I thought this was regarding KH2 vs BBS. For 2 vs 3, I do see a few small changes, and it might just be the same way for 2 vs BBS, but you could attribute the difference in 2 vs 3 to the graphical/engine upgrade as well.

Guess I'll just check it out in both games lol

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Er, I thought this was regarding KH2 vs BBS. For 2 vs 3, I do see a few small changes, and it might just be the same way for 2 vs BBS, but you could attribute the difference in 2 vs 3 to the graphical/engine upgrade as well.

Guess I'll just check it out in both games lol

You can think of it as being thanks to Yen Sid, and also because the Mysterious Tower is a loophole world in the first place, so it comes under slightly different rules than the ones that connect the other worlds. By the way, when Donald and Goofy visit the Mysterious Tower in “KHII”, they say, “Master Yen Sid lives here!?” even though they’ve already been there in “KH BbS”. This is because the floors are constructed differently to the previous time they visited, which is strange (laughs).

 

 

This quote says otherwise- if you read-it is an ever changing ever evolving inbetween world and is like that for a reason...The OP just started playing the games so

 it's not just about any particular game in the series itself but more about  how the world itself works and changes and evolves in the series.

 

[Xiro 3,468]

 

 

You can think of it as being thanks to Yen Sid, and also because the Mysterious Tower is a loophole world in the first place, so it comes under slightly different rules than the ones that connect the other worlds. By the way, when Donald and Goofy visit the Mysterious Tower in “KHII”, they say, “Master Yen Sid lives here!?” even though they’ve already been there in “KH BbS”. This is because the floors are constructed differently to the previous time they visited, which is strange (laughs).

 

 

 

This quote says otherwise- if you read-it is an ever changing ever evolving inbetween world and is like that for a reason...The OP just started playing the games so

it's not just about any particular game in the series itself but more about how the world itself works and changes and evolves in the series.

Also, I did check the MT exterior in 2FM and BBS, since that is what I was referring to. Assuming that it's the same for all three characters in BBS, it looks the exact same in 2 and BBS.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Xiro

[catmaster0116 2,676]

Ahh the inconsistencies of the series

Love it

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Also, I did check the MT exterior in 2FM and BBS, since that is what I was referring to. Assuming that it's the same for all three characters in BBS, it looks the exact same in k2 and BBS.

 

 

 

Just bc they were asking a question on those certain games doesn't mean he shouldn't aqcuire skill and knowledge along the way. Not everything is cut and dry or you'll miss stuff

 

 

 

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Uh, did someone quote me? I see nothing. Well anyway, yeah I do find it strange how Nomura was only addressing the interior of the tower rather than the exterior, which was what everyone was referring to in the first place. But I'd still like to be under the impression that, yeah it was 10 years ago since they last had to be there so odds are he forgot the detail that this is what Yen Sid's house looks like....although if you remember what Yen Sid looks like, that kind of makes the whole design of the thing pretty obvious. Still, faulty memories are faulty memories I guess.

[Xiro 3,468]

 

Just bc they were asking a question on those games doesn't mean he shouldn't aqcuire skill and knowledge along the way. Not everything is cut and dry or you'll miss stuff

 

I pointed out the exterior and looked at them myself because I was thinking that the "the floors are constructed differently to the previous time they visited" quote doesn't exactly explain how Donald didn't recognize the tower, which was a question asked by the OP. If the tower doesn't change at all over ten years, then either Donald and Goofy have bad memories, like Hero of Light XIV says above, or it was just a retcon, which is what I think.