KH3 Pessimist.

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

I'm one of THOSE people. Yeah, you know, the one that everyone hates and calls a pointless pessimist and hates your negativity, and your criticism, etc etc etc

 

I just can't be optimistic for KH3. Am I excited for it? I suppose, but will I think it will be an incredible, mindblowing, "best KH game" yet? Absolutely not.

 

I have my reasons for being pessimistic. Firstly is because I've always been sort of a pessimist; for example, I would expect an F on a test and get a C back and feel not as bad; opposedly, those who expect an A and get a C back feel awful. Secondly is because of the usual "Osaka Team" ramble, which I'm sure most people are aware by now. Even after seeing 0.2 gameplay, closer analyzing lead me to realize some very bad signs in the gameplay, which, if it carries over to KH3, can potentially...suck. Thirdly is because I think DDD ruined the story beyond repair, and not even KH3 will be able to fix it. Time Travel...what were you thinking Nomura?

 

I hate when people go like "Oh wow, KH3 is going to be perfect just because it's KH3" because you don't know that. Using the fact that "it's KH3" to justify the game is good is ridiculous. This is also the crap that leads to massive, complete disappointment if the game comes out and it's glitchy, unbalanced, and sucks. Now can I justify that it will suck? No, I can't. However, I think it won't be as good as people say it will be. I also think it won't live up to its hype. Then, I get told, "if you aren't 'excited' for KH3, you're not a true KH fan." So why should I even bother being a fan then, if that requirement is needed to be a "true fan"? To absolutely love every game Square makes even if it is plagued with issues and glitchiness? I'm not optimistic about the game because of the signs Osaka Team has shown. I'm not going to be optimistic. So stop trying to make me an optimist, because I'm not. That doesn't mean I hate KH at all; it just means I want to see my favorite game series do better than it recently has. I fell in love with KH1 and KH2, but it's pretty much been downhill from there. So hopefully, you can see where my pessimism comes from.

 

I get told after the 0.2 gameplay released, "Look at that! There's no way KH3 will suck now, the gameplay is incredible!" Once again, a completely blatant and ridiculous claim. A few minutes of 0.2 gameplay will show you nothing about the insight of KH3. It will not "prove" the game is good. People who say 0.2 gameplay is amazing is looking at the surface again. It's literally BBS all over again. People loved BBS at first, but recently, it's been getting a bit more attention to the issues it had. Why did people love BBS so much at first? Because it was flashy and fun to play around with the combat. It looked cool. It's the same thing with 0.2. The graphics are pretty incredible in comparison to the previous KH games. The spells and attacks all look super awesome, and even physical combos seem a bit better than the ones in BBS and DDD. 

 

That doesn't prove anything though. You might get a super overpowered attack that completely negates everything else you have in the game. There might be glitchiness, freezes, crashes. There might be horrible boss AI that is designed after horrible in-game mechanics. You don't know any of this yet, so assuming 0.2 proves KH3 will be incredible is such a ludicrous claim that I can't possible comprehend how these people are reasoning this behind their heads.

 

So what if KH3 comes out inevitably, and it's an actual good game? People will probably yell at my face, tell me that "you were wrong and a dumbass for having low expectations." They can say what they want. I'll be stoked obviously; I still want KH3 to do well. That being said, if it does turn out to be a bad game, none of us are benefiting from this. However, I'll have this extra cushion that I've prepared in my mind, that tells me, you knew this was gonna happen. You shouldn't ever expect so much. 

 

KH3 is overhyped. People are in love with it even though we've seen little to nothing of it. I don't see much glimmer of hope. I have no reason to be optimistic. Insult me, call me names, exclude me, hate me; do whatever you want. However, you will never change my opinion on this subject, so stop trying.

[Felixx 6,646]

No one says KH3 will be perfect just because it's KH3.

But from what I've seen so far, it looks pretty perfect to me. I love the new graphics, they looks absolutely stunning. The trailers we got were amazing, with some awesome gameplay, new fighting styles and so on.

And contrary to a lot of fans, I actually like the whole time travel part (though I understand the people who don't), and the story is just damn exciting to me right now.

So yeah, I'm full of hopes

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

No one says KH3 will be perfect just because it's KH3.But from what I've seen so far, it looks pretty perfect to me. I love the new graphics, they looks absolutely stunning. The trailers we got were amazing, with some awesome gameplay, new fighting styles and so on.And contrary to a lot of fans, I actually like the whole time travel part (though I understand the people who don't), and the story is just damn exciting to me right now.So yeah, I'm full of hopes

Yeah see, that's the thing. KH3 looks awesome. It looks flashy, it looks incredible, but that's all on the surface. That's why people loved BBS at first, but many grew to hate it when they realized the flawed in-depths mechanics. That's why I don't want to assume KH3 is amazing, even if they gave us a great looking preview.

[PillowHead 569]

You make some okay points, but on the whole I think you're taking this way to seriously.You're entire point about the gameplay makes no sense.  If it looks good, then it looks good, it's really that simple.  If there does happen to be some kind of overpowered ability that trivializes the gameplay, then just don't use that ability. There is ultimately much more of a reason to believe that it will be fun and entertaining then otherwise so far.However, is KH3 overhyped so far?  I could definitely see an argument to be made there, so overall I agree with that point.

[Lulcielid 159]

I have my reasons for being pessimistic. Firstly is because I've always been sort of a pessimist; for example, I would expect an F on a test and get a C back and feel not as bad; opposedly, those who expect an A and get a C back feel awful. Secondly is because of the usual "Osaka Team" ramble, which I'm sure most people are aware by now. Even after seeing 0.2 gameplay, closer analyzing lead me to realize some very bad signs in the gameplay, which, if it carries over to KH3, can potentially...suck. Thirdly is because I think DDD ruined the story beyond repair, and not even KH3 will be able to fix it. Time Travel...what were you thinking Nomura?

1. Did you know that the people that made KH2 were not the same as KH1 (staff comparison here)? That didn´t prevented KH2 from being well received and considered a good game.

2. Could you provide examples and an explanation of what these bad signs are?

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Well, you've voiced your opinion on why Kingdom Hearts III might not do as well as one could hope, and I respect that!  You're not afraid of voicing your opinion!

 

And well, I'm sure Square's learned from their little stumbles, and they're improving the gameplay with each passing month, ya know? They haven't shown us anything else regarding the game yet, for the probable reason that they want to fine tune the gameplay before showing more footage, ya know?  So that way, people can see how the combat keeps improving!  In my honest opinion, I don't have a problem with 0.2's gameplay, and I did love BBS's gameplay, so I have no problem with that! (Honestly though, I love every KH game! X3) But hey, you make good points, and you're just worried that the game might not be as successful as it could be, and that's fine!

 

But I'm hoping it does!  And as for the story, I for one, really love the direction its going!  It's a very intriguing story, one I can't wait to see the conclusion to!

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

You make some okay points, but on the whole I think you're taking this way to seriously.You're entire point about the gameplay makes no sense.  If it looks good, then it looks good, it's really that simple.  If there does happen to be some kind of overpowered ability that trivializes the gameplay, then just don't use that ability. There is ultimately much more of a reason to believe that it will be fun and entertaining then otherwise so far.However, is KH3 overhyped so far?  I could definitely see an argument to be made there, so overall I agree with that point.

Not necessarily true; just because it looks nice on the surface does not necessarily mean it's fun or good. If there is an overpowered ability, that destroys the point of using other abilities. If you restrict yourself from using it, you're not getting any more out of the game; it doesn't make the gameplay experience better. You'll be forced to maintain this code of honor for the sake of enjoying the game a little more. It will be even worse if they pull a BBS and DDD and end up designing the gameplay AFTER these overpowered abilities. Ever played DDD Critical Mode Level 1? Try beating it without Balloon. It won't happen; the game literally forces you to abuse Balloon to win, otherwise it becomes impossibly difficult and tedious. 

 

That being said, i'm not saying you can't enjoy the game if it's unbalanced and has bad boss AI. That's all up to your own opinion; however, I as a pretty hardcore player of KH games will have an issue with problems like these, because after the 3rd replay, I realize these issues and it will start bothering me a lot, and I'm sure the other half of the fanbase will take awareness of it too.

 

Also, I can't agree that there's more evidence towards good gameplay than bad one. There are some good signs; for example, your physical combos don't look as useless as the ones in BBS and DDD. However, you have to consider deeper down. All we know right now is that we have Magic, and we have decent physical combos. What about enemy AI? What about balancing? Osaka Team has not been known to get these things right in the past. What about glitches, freezing, and laziness? You might say that because this is KH3, but there is no definitive proof of that. 1.5 and 2.5 were awful in terms of stability in comparison to their original counterparts because of Osaka Team was lazy and made a bad port. In combination with my pessimistic personality, I don't see any good coming from it.

 

Also yeah, you have to understand that I'm am a pretty big pessimist so I tend to look at things in the worst way possible. Honestly its all speculation at this point, but I'm just preparing myself in case the game will be bad. If it's bad, I'l be disappointed, but not too disappointed. If it's good, then I'll be awestruck and super happy. Still not counting on it though.

 

And yeah, I do take it seriously because others take it so seriously as well. This community is hyped up about KH3; you see speculations, theories, fan-made concepts, etc. almost everywhere.

 

 

1. Did you know that the people that made KH2 were not the same as KH1 (staff comparison here)? That didn´t prevented KH2 from being well received and considered a good game.

2. Could you provide examples and an explanation of what these bad signs are?

Yes, I am aware KH2 and KH1 are not the same staff. However, BBS, DDD, 1.5 Remix and 2.5 Remix are made by Osaka Team. Those games share similar flaws: BBS and DDD suffers from horrible balancing issues and bad enemy AI (especially the super bosses in BBS). 1.5 and 2.5 are plagued with glitchiness as a result of lazy porting. I'm worried because if Osaka is lazy for KH3 and all these issues and glitchiness is found in the final game, it will suck. 

 

And yeah, I'll provide a couple examples:

1. Aqua's combos are slightly faster than BBS, but they still have that sort of floaty weak feeling to it. It's definitely better though, so that's a plus. That being said, the KH3 trailers show Sora's combos to be slow and weak, hinting that physical combos might be trivialized by other potentially overpowered abilities.

2. There has been no sign of returning "Revenge Value" or "Forced Revenge" system, which means bosses can be entirely random resulting in bad enemy AI.

3. Potentially overpowered abilities: Cure in KH2 was good because it healed you completely, but you also lost all your magic. Cure in 0.2 heals a good chunk of your HP, but doesn't drain all your MP. This can render items almost useless like in KH1.

4. More potentially overpowered abilities obsoleting everything else: shotlock, attraction flow, etc. Wouldnt it be a shame if the surefire way to beat KH3 was one ability, and it worked on everything?

5. Broken story. It's pretty convoluted at this point, although I guess some people like the lore so I won't linger too much on that since it's kind of an opinion.

 

That's some of the stuff off the top of my head, athough there's definitely more.

Edited July 10, 2016 by thatkingdomheartsguy

[Awesome Sauce 634]

Sheesh, somebody needs to calm down.

 

Those fans you're talking about? They're just more obsessed with the series than others are. Almost no one says KH3 is going to be perfect just 'cause, no one goes around denouncing that if you aren't excited you aren't a "true fan" or whatever tier of appreciation you have for this series. Nothing is perfect, and I don't expect it to be the greatest thing ever, but I'm not gonna act as if it's gonna be absolutely terrible and the worst thing ever based on the last game's reception and the claims of certain people. While hype has led to many dissapointing games in recent years, some have learned to not trust in it all the time. We can still be excited for KH3 without going crazy hyped about it, or be able to look at the game and it's possible flaws while still loving it. 

 

Thinking that KH3 will suck based on a few minutes of 0.2 gameplay is just as ridiculous as thinking it will be great based on that same footage. It might not exactly be KH3, but it's close. and even then, the game could be changed accordingly to feedback from the 0.2 demo and it's future release, and even more changes could happen if the Tokyo Team decides to help with development of KH3 after FFXV releases. Right now I can't say definitively whether 0.2 is good or bad, but I think Osaka is learning from their mistakes and improving the gameplay.

 

You can't say that it's the same situation as BBS when we still don't have the game. You go on about how 0.2 doesn't prove KH3 will be good when most of your pessimism is derived from that gameplay and fears you have based on previous experiences with Osaka games.

 

Maybe some of those obsessive fans will tell you off, or the reasonable ones will calmly tell you that the low expectations were unreasonable. Again, being pessimistic about KH3 when we've seen next to nothing of it is just as ridiculous as falling in love with it based on those same scraps of information. 

 

Why, oh why would anyone want to insult you based on your thoughts? In the end, this is all opinions.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Awesome Sauce

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

Sheesh, somebody needs to calm down.

 

Those fans you're talking about? They're just more obsessed with the series than others are. Almost no one says KH3 is going to be perfect just 'cause, no one goes around denouncing that if you aren't excited you aren't a "true fan" or whatever tier of appreciation you have for this series. Nothing is perfect, and I don't expect it to be the greatest thing ever, but I'm not gonna act as if it's gonna be absolutely terrible and the worst thing ever based on the last game's reception and the claims of certain people. While hype has led to many dissapointing games in recent years, some have learned to not trust in it all the time. We can still be excited for and  KH3 without going crazy hyped about it, or be able to look at the game and it's possible flaws while still loving it. 

 

Thinking that KH3 will suck based on a few minutes of 0.2 gameplay is just as ridiculous as thinking it will be great based on that same footage. It might not exactly be KH3, but it's close. and even then, the game could be changed accordingly to feedback from the 0.2 demo and it's future release, and even more changes could happen if the Tokyo Team decides to help with development of KH3 after FFXV releases. Right now I can't say definitively whether 0.2 is good or bad, but I think Osaka is learning from their mistakes and improving the gameplay.

 

You can't say that it's the same situation as BBS when we still don't have the game. You go on about how 0.2 doesn't prove KH3 will be good when most of your pessimism is derived from that gameplay and fears you have based on previous experiences with Osaka games.

 

Maybe some of those obsessive fans will tell you off, or the reasonable ones will calmly tell you that the low expectations were unreasonable. Again, being pessimistic about KH3 when we've seen next to nothing of it is just as ridiculous as falling in love with it based on those same scraps of information. 

 

Why, oh why would anyone want to insult you based on your thoughts? In the end, this is all opinions.

I never based my opinions on 2 minutes of 0.2 gameplay though. I based my opinions on everything Osaka Team has done, and can't understand how people can possibly be optimistic when all their history in the past has shown nothing good from them. I don't think you understand my point here: I'm not saying that this proves KH3 gameplay will be bad. I'm saying that it's a legitimate reason for suspicion and worry. However, to those extremists who say that ____ proves KH will be good/bad, they're the ones that are stretching it.

 

I say it's a similar situation to BBS because all we have is the surface level, which is flashy gameplay and nothing more. That's the same reason people liked BBS, while those who disliked it realized the fundamental gameplay flaws it possessed. I'm not saying it will be like BBS, but I caught this similarity between the two, which means it could potentially turn out to be the same.

 

Also, you'd be surprised at the amount of hate I've gotten for saying something negative about KH3. I've literally seen flame wars in forums and comments over a small thing someone said because they "insulted their most anticipated game". I'm taking this seriously because so many others are. 

 

Why do I act like it's gonna be terrible? So I can prepare myself if it does happen. If you go into the game expecting something even half-way decent/comparable to the best games and it doesn't meet that expectation, you'll be severely disappointed. I expect the lowest possible result, which means that I can't be disappointed if it's bad. If it's good, then awesome, I'll play the crap out of it and love it to death. However, before I play the game, I'll remain a pessimist. It's a mental preparation thing.

 

But then again, as you said, this is all one big opinion and nothing more. People still get angry over opinions though, but that's the internet so what can you do ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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Edited July 10, 2016 by thatkingdomheartsguy

[Headphone Jack 1,147]

i don't know if i'd go so far as to label myself a KH pessimist but maybe more of a KH skeptic. skepticism is good, especially for the KH series. 

 

at this point i'm not expecting KH3 to be an amazing game that blows my mind but i'm also not expecting it to be a complete failure. the KH series can more often than not be relied upon for providing enjoyable gameplay, which is good considering it's a video game. even DDD, the game that is, in my opinion, the worst of the series, has somewhat enjoyable gameplay. 

 

so chances are that the worst KH3 could do is provide us with a flashy and fun videogame, coupled with a horribly over complicated story. 

 

although to be fair, KH3 is starting off at a disadvantage by having to shoulder the burden of DDD and X's stories AND try and wrap everything up. it's gonna get ugly. i'm bracing for what could essentially be DDD part 2.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

I'm one of THOSE people. Yeah, you know, the one that everyone hates and calls a pointless pessimist and hates your negativity, and your criticism, etc etc etc

 

I just can't be optimistic for KH3. Am I excited for it? I suppose, but will I think it will be an incredible, mindblowing, "best KH game" yet? Absolutely not.

 

I have my reasons for being pessimistic. Firstly is because I've always been sort of a pessimist; for example, I would expect an F on a test and get a C back and feel not as bad; opposedly, those who expect an A and get a C back feel awful. Secondly is because of the usual "Osaka Team" ramble, which I'm sure most people are aware by now. Even after seeing 0.2 gameplay, closer analyzing lead me to realize some very bad signs in the gameplay, which, if it carries over to KH3, can potentially...suck. Thirdly is because I think DDD ruined the story beyond repair, and not even KH3 will be able to fix it. Time Travel...what were you thinking Nomura?

 

I hate when people go like "Oh wow, KH3 is going to be perfect just because it's KH3" because you don't know that. Using the fact that "it's KH3" to justify the game is good is ridiculous. This is also the crap that leads to massive, complete disappointment if the game comes out and it's glitchy, unbalanced, and sucks. Now can I justify that it will suck? No, I can't. However, I think it won't be as good as people say it will be. I also think it won't live up to its hype. Then, I get told, "if you aren't 'excited' for KH3, you're not a true KH fan." So why should I even bother being a fan then, if that requirement is needed to be a "true fan"? To absolutely love every game Square makes even if it is plagued with issues and glitchiness? I'm not optimistic about the game because of the signs Osaka Team has shown. I'm not going to be optimistic. So stop trying to make me an optimist, because I'm not. That doesn't mean I hate KH at all; it just means I want to see my favorite game series do better than it recently has. I fell in love with KH1 and KH2, but it's pretty much been downhill from there. So hopefully, you can see where my pessimism comes from.

 

I get told after the 0.2 gameplay released, "Look at that! There's no way KH3 will suck now, the gameplay is incredible!" Once again, a completely blatant and ridiculous claim. A few minutes of 0.2 gameplay will show you nothing about the insight of KH3. It will not "prove" the game is good. People who say 0.2 gameplay is amazing is looking at the surface again. It's literally BBS all over again. People loved BBS at first, but recently, it's been getting a bit more attention to the issues it had. Why did people love BBS so much at first? Because it was flashy and fun to play around with the combat. It looked cool. It's the same thing with 0.2. The graphics are pretty incredible in comparison to the previous KH games. The spells and attacks all look super awesome, and even physical combos seem a bit better than the ones in BBS and DDD. 

 

That doesn't prove anything though. You might get a super overpowered attack that completely negates everything else you have in the game. There might be glitchiness, freezes, crashes. There might be horrible boss AI that is designed after horrible in-game mechanics. You don't know any of this yet, so assuming 0.2 proves KH3 will be incredible is such a ludicrous claim that I can't possible comprehend how these people are reasoning this behind their heads.

 

So what if KH3 comes out inevitably, and it's an actual good game? People will probably yell at my face, tell me that "you were wrong and a dumbass for having low expectations." They can say what they want. I'll be stoked obviously; I still want KH3 to do well. That being said, if it does turn out to be a bad game, none of us are benefiting from this. However, I'll have this extra cushion that I've prepared in my mind, that tells me, you knew this was gonna happen. You shouldn't ever expect so much. 

 

KH3 is overhyped. People are in love with it even though we've seen little to nothing of it. I don't see much glimmer of hope. I have no reason to be optimistic. Insult me, call me names, exclude me, hate me; do whatever you want. However, you will never change my opinion on this subject, so stop trying.

Sir,you're a goshdarn hero and I freakin Salute you for having the guts to voice your opinion within a super toxic community like the KH fandom

No one says KH3 will be perfect just because it's KH3. 

You'd be surprised by the amount of people I found that have this mindset of KH3 being great just because it's the fabled long awaited KH3

[ShadowKeyblade 219]

Sir,you're a goshdarn hero and I freakin Salute you for having the guts to voice your opinion within a super toxic community like the KH fandom

You'd be surprised by the amount of people I found that have this mindset of KH3 being great just because it's the fabled long awaited KH3

Weird, because I see a lot more doom and gloom around than overwhelming holy shit this will be the greatest game of all time because KH3. 

 

And I like how you single out this fandom as being super toxic, when it's really rather mild compared to, say, the FF fandom or Dark Souls, or any of the oscar bait video game fandoms like Uncharted or TLOU. I'm sensing you had a handful of bad experiences.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Weird, because I see a lot more doom and gloom around than overwhelming holy shit this will be the greatest game of all time because KH3. 

 

And I like how you single out this fandom as being super toxic, when it's really rather mild compared to, say, the FF fandom or Dark Souls, or any of the oscar bait video game fandoms like Uncharted or TLOU. I'm sensing you had a handful of bad experiences.

Where did I implied that I singled out the KH community only?I mentioned it as an example

 

I've been with the FF and KH communities for over a decade now.I have no desire to be part of the Dark Souls fandom,I only played Uncharted 4 so I can't call myself a "hardcore fan" of the series

 

Simply put,and that includes my discussions on KH13,my experience with the KH fandom was 90% bad with people telling me to leave this site saying how I'm a hater for criticising a lot of KH's writing

 

People calling me out by stuff that's supposed to be private as a pity revenge for KH and how some say the problem is with me not with Kingdom Hearts and that KH has been and always will be perfect

[ShadowKeyblade 219]

Where did I implied that I singled out the KH community only?I mentioned it as an example

 

I've been with the FF and KH communities for over a decade now.I have no desire to be part of the Dark Souls fandom,I only played Uncharted 4 so I can't call myself a "hardcore fan" of the series

 

Simply put,and that includes my discussions on KH13,my experience with the KH fandom was 90% bad with people telling me to leave this site saying how I'm a hater for criticising a lot of KH's writing

 

People calling me out by stuff that's supposed to be private as a pity revenge for KH and how some say the problem is with me not with Kingdom Hearts and that KH has been and always will be perfect

It came off that way with "super toxic." I've had plenty of experience with toxic communities, and to be completely honest KH is probably one of the better ones I've seen. By no means perfect, but there's no universal praise or universal hatred like there is with some of the other ones I've mentioned.

 

And for the record, maybe it's not because you criticized it, maybe it's to the degree you criticized it. Kinda like with this topic, it's nearly entirely pessimistic (hence the title I guess). Personally, I can't stand when people talk shit about something without looking at it's merits as well. I'm not a fan of extremes, whether overly positive or overly negative. KH isn't perfect, it's writing can be poop at times, it's not always balanced as a game, but it makes up for it in other ways. When you're only talking about the flaws, it can kinda seem like you hate the whole damn thing, and that's where people will get angry, whether they see the flaws or not.

 

One last question, did you ever actually see anyone explicitly stating that Kingdom Hearts is perfect? Because I'm seriously doubting the vast majority of the fandom would agree with that sentiment. Nothing is perfect.

[MythrilMagician 6,963]

Am I seriously the only one who likes the Osaka team? Because despite the many Kingdom Hearts fans that exist, it sure feels that way. The thing is, you need not worry. Have faith in the Osaka team and don't judge the trailer. Play the game when it releases, then judge. The 0.2 gameplay will likely carry over to KH3 because from what I recall, they plan on making 0.2 and KH3 gameplay the same (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Glitches, freezes and crashes are absolutely normal. There is no such thing as a software that doesn't do it. The trick is to make it so that normal player actions don't trigger these problems, which is quite difficult.

 

I agree with you with the game being overhyped. This is what happens when you announce a game too early, years before it's ready. It also happens when you keep delaying it, just for the sake of some lore and flashbacks.

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

Am I seriously the only one who likes the Osaka team? Because despite the many Kingdom Hearts fans that exist, it sure feels that way. The thing is, you need not worry. Have faith in the Osaka team and don't judge the trailer. 

Why should I have faith when all they've done so far is make bad games though? Blind faith won't get me anywhere. I can't just sit there and pretend everything is fine with Osaka Team, because it really isn't. 

 

Play the game when it releases, then judge. The 0.2 gameplay will likely carry over to KH3 because from what I recall, they plan on making 0.2 and KH3 gameplay the same (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I agree. All we're doing now is speculation and theories, and unfortunately, we can't get very far with that. That being said, I will still assume a pessimistic standpoint.

 

Glitches, freezes and crashes are absolutely normal. There is no such thing as a software that doesn't do it. The trick is to make it so that normal player actions don't trigger these problems, which is quite difficult.

Not sure if I entirely understand this. You're saying that glitches, freezes, and crashes are normal, but the trick is to make it so the players don't ever trigger these? Wouldn't that be more or less the same as eliminating them? The point is that 1.5 and 2.5 were bad in terms of stability. That doesn't mean it crashed every 2 seconds you played the game; it just means there were new additional glitchiness + crashes that were found and weren't in the original counterparts. That's the problem; if Osaka is lazy enough to make lazy HD Ports that can't even compete with their originals, I'm not sure how I feel about them making KH3.

 

It's like handing over the job of guarding a bomb or something to someone who is lazy and have proven to be incompetent in the past. Would you trust that person? Obviously not. That's why I can't shake the feeling of KH3 being bad; you're giving the job to people who have shown to make games in the past that were sub-par, and I think KH3 deserves more than that.

[ShadowKeyblade 219]

I suppose I should actually try to keep more to topic. I don't think you should entirely discredit Osaka, because

 

1) They've been limited to handheld games, which typically don't have the level of polish and content that a console game might have (aside from just graphics).

 

2) Blaming a whole team for screw ups that may be the result of a decision made by a higher up (whether Nomura, his subordinates, or someone else) isn't okay

 

3) Teams change. iirc, a lot of the people who worked on KH2 are on the team now

 

4) It's KH3, not some handheld title that doesn't mean as much for the company. I'm thinking Nomura will get their asses in gear for this, already things look way more balanced than BBS and DDD. At least based off of the analysis's for KH3's last trailer, and what we know about 0.2. Shotlocks don't seem OP, combos are better, some degree of revenge value, etc. 

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

I'm one of THOSE people. Yeah, you know, the one that everyone hates and calls a pointless pessimist and hates your negativity, and your criticism, etc etc etc

 

I just can't be optimistic for KH3. Am I excited for it? I suppose, but will I think it will be an incredible, mindblowing, "best KH game" yet? Absolutely not.

 

I have my reasons for being pessimistic. Firstly is because I've always been sort of a pessimist; for example, I would expect an F on a test and get a C back and feel not as bad; opposedly, those who expect an A and get a C back feel awful. Secondly is because of the usual "Osaka Team" ramble, which I'm sure most people are aware by now. Even after seeing 0.2 gameplay, closer analyzing lead me to realize some very bad signs in the gameplay, which, if it carries over to KH3, can potentially...suck. Thirdly is because I think DDD ruined the story beyond repair, and not even KH3 will be able to fix it. Time Travel...what were you thinking Nomura?

 

I hate when people go like "Oh wow, KH3 is going to be perfect just because it's KH3" because you don't know that. Using the fact that "it's KH3" to justify the game is good is ridiculous. This is also the crap that leads to massive, complete disappointment if the game comes out and it's glitchy, unbalanced, and sucks. Now can I justify that it will suck? No, I can't. However, I think it won't be as good as people say it will be. I also think it won't live up to its hype. Then, I get told, "if you aren't 'excited' for KH3, you're not a true KH fan." So why should I even bother being a fan then, if that requirement is needed to be a "true fan"? To absolutely love every game Square makes even if it is plagued with issues and glitchiness? I'm not optimistic about the game because of the signs Osaka Team has shown. I'm not going to be optimistic. So stop trying to make me an optimist, because I'm not. That doesn't mean I hate KH at all; it just means I want to see my favorite game series do better than it recently has. I fell in love with KH1 and KH2, but it's pretty much been downhill from there. So hopefully, you can see where my pessimism comes from.

 

I get told after the 0.2 gameplay released, "Look at that! There's no way KH3 will suck now, the gameplay is incredible!" Once again, a completely blatant and ridiculous claim. A few minutes of 0.2 gameplay will show you nothing about the insight of KH3. It will not "prove" the game is good. People who say 0.2 gameplay is amazing is looking at the surface again. It's literally BBS all over again. People loved BBS at first, but recently, it's been getting a bit more attention to the issues it had. Why did people love BBS so much at first? Because it was flashy and fun to play around with the combat. It looked cool. It's the same thing with 0.2. The graphics are pretty incredible in comparison to the previous KH games. The spells and attacks all look super awesome, and even physical combos seem a bit better than the ones in BBS and DDD. 

 

That doesn't prove anything though. You might get a super overpowered attack that completely negates everything else you have in the game. There might be glitchiness, freezes, crashes. There might be horrible boss AI that is designed after horrible in-game mechanics. You don't know any of this yet, so assuming 0.2 proves KH3 will be incredible is such a ludicrous claim that I can't possible comprehend how these people are reasoning this behind their heads.

 

So what if KH3 comes out inevitably, and it's an actual good game? People will probably yell at my face, tell me that "you were wrong and a dumbass for having low expectations." They can say what they want. I'll be stoked obviously; I still want KH3 to do well. That being said, if it does turn out to be a bad game, none of us are benefiting from this. However, I'll have this extra cushion that I've prepared in my mind, that tells me, you knew this was gonna happen. You shouldn't ever expect so much. 

 

KH3 is overhyped. People are in love with it even though we've seen little to nothing of it. I don't see much glimmer of hope. I have no reason to be optimistic. Insult me, call me names, exclude me, hate me; do whatever you want. However, you will never change my opinion on this subject, so stop trying.

 

 

Yeah see, that's the thing. KH3 looks awesome. It looks flashy, it looks incredible, but that's all on the surface. That's why people loved BBS at first, but many grew to hate it when they realized the flawed in-depths mechanics. That's why I don't want to assume KH3 is amazing, even if they gave us a great looking preview.

 

Oh, you're one of those kind of fans...yeeeeeaaaaahhhhh, I'm just going to go over here and enjoy BBS and KH3 when it comes out. I mean no offense, your opinions are your opinions and you're entitled to believe them, I'm just not entitled to agree with them, and frankly, I don't want to either. It feels much better to me being optimistic about this stuff, especially since I love each game for different reasons. I like how KH3 is developing so far, I loved how BBS played, and I have little reason to be worried about this game. I've never felt like I've had to be worried about how a game turns out before, so I don't feel like I need to start now, based on my past experience with this series. So whatever your reasons for having this many doubts, good luck with however you interpret the game, but me, I have a good feeling I'm going to be very satisfied. No game in the series is perfect, but it doesn't mean none of them are worth playing or enjoying.

Am I seriously the only one who likes the Osaka team? Because despite the many Kingdom Hearts fans that exist, it sure feels that way. The thing is, you need not worry. Have faith in the Osaka team and don't judge the trailer. Play the game when it releases, then judge. The 0.2 gameplay will likely carry over to KH3 because from what I recall, they plan on making 0.2 and KH3 gameplay the same (someone correct me if I'm wrong).Glitches, freezes and crashes are absolutely normal. There is no such thing as a software that doesn't do it. The trick is to make it so that normal player actions don't trigger these problems, which is quite difficult.I agree with you with the game being overhyped. This is what happens when you announce a game too early, years before it's ready. It also happens when you keep delaying it, just for the sake of some lore and flashbacks.

No I like them too, they've come a long way in my opinion.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

It came off that way with "super toxic." I've had plenty of experience with toxic communities, and to be completely honest KH is probably one of the better ones I've seen. By no means perfect, but there's no universal praise or universal hatred like there is with some of the other ones I've mentioned.

 

And for the record, maybe it's not because you criticized it, maybe it's to the degree you criticized it. Kinda like with this topic, it's nearly entirely pessimistic (hence the title I guess). Personally, I can't stand when people talk shit about something without looking at it's merits as well. I'm not a fan of extremes, whether overly positive or overly negative. KH isn't perfect, it's writing can be poop at times, it's not always balanced as a game, but it makes up for it in other ways. When you're only talking about the flaws, it can kinda seem like you hate the whole damn thing, and that's where people will get angry, whether they see the flaws or not.

 

One last question, did you ever actually see anyone explicitly stating that Kingdom Hearts is perfect? Because I'm seriously doubting the vast majority of the fandom would agree with that sentiment. Nothing is perfect.

I'm not as pessimestic trust me I try to make mine as constructive as possible(sure my early discussions weren't that good but I grew and learned from my mistakes) and I put a disclaimer that this is just a subjective opinion that anyone can disagree with so long as we respect each other

 

 

Disagree with me fine............insult me personally for a video game then you crossed the line

 

as for people saying that KH is perfect............have you ever been to KHInsider's forums and youtube's comment section around the time DDD came out?Cuz that shit was nightmarish

 

 

And for the record,I didn't start criticizing Kingdom Hearts in an analytical manner until 2013-2014 so for some random assholes on the internet to tell me that I'm not a fan cuz I didn't like how things went at some point is firetrucking stupid

Edited July 10, 2016 by Smash Mega Koopa

[ShadowKeyblade 219]

I'm not as pessimestic trust me I try to make mine as constructive as possible(sure my early discussions weren't that good but I grew and learned from my mistakes) and I put a disclaimer that this is just a subjective opinion that anyone can disagree with so long as we respect each other

 

 

Disagree with me fine............insult me personally for a video game then you crossed the line

 

as for people saying that KH is perfect............have you ever been to KHInsider's forums and youtube's comment section around the time DDD came out?Cuz that shit was nightmarish

 

 

And for the record,I didn't start criticizing Kingdom Hearts in an analytical manner until 2013-2014 so for some random assholes on the internet to tell me that I'm not a fan cuz I didn't like how things went at some point is firetrucking stupid

Fair enough.

 

Have you been to KHInsider recently, though? I won't argue about when DDD came out. After all, everyone was still universally praising BBS's battle system then. This fandom has changed quite a bit since then, haha. For awhile there was so much negativity regarding the series on KHI that someone had to put up a thread about things people actually liked about it. Since then, it's been a lot more balanced out.

 

And believe me, I get ya, though I can see how someone might get the wrong idea and jump to the wrong conclusions. 

[MythrilMagician 6,963]

Why should I have faith when all they've done so far is make bad games though? Blind faith won't get me anywhere. I can't just sit there and pretend everything is fine with Osaka Team, because it really isn't.  I agree. All we're doing now is speculation and theories, and unfortunately, we can't get very far with that. That being said, I will still assume a pessimistic standpoint. Not sure if I entirely understand this. You're saying that glitches, freezes, and crashes are normal, but the trick is to make it so the players don't ever trigger these? Wouldn't that be more or less the same as eliminating them? The point is that 1.5 and 2.5 were bad in terms of stability. That doesn't mean it crashed every 2 seconds you played the game; it just means there were new additional glitchiness + crashes that were found and weren't in the original counterparts. That's the problem; if Osaka is lazy enough to make lazy HD Ports that can't even compete with their originals, I'm not sure how I feel about them making KH3. It's like handing over the job of guarding a bomb or something to someone who is lazy and have proven to be incompetent in the past. Would you trust that person? Obviously not. That's why I can't shake the feeling of KH3 being bad; you're giving the job to people who have shown to make games in the past that were sub-par, and I think KH3 deserves more than that.

No software is perfect, so it would be impossible to eliminate these things. What I meant was, is to hide these glitches etc as much as possible. Making a new game is different to remastering games (albeit 1 was rebuilt from the ground up, so I don't know what happened there). And I remember hearing that the Osaka team won't be the only ones working on the game. When the team working on FFXV finish, they will assist the Osaka team (or so I remember reading, I'm sorry, my memory is a bit vague in this regard)

[thatkingdomheartsguy 153]

Oh, you're one of those kind of fans...yeeeeeaaaaahhhhh, I'm just going to go over here and enjoy BBS and KH3 when it comes out. I mean no offense, your opinions are your opinions and you're entitled to believe them, I'm just not entitled to agree with them, and frankly, I don't want to either. It feels much better to me being optimistic about this stuff, especially since I love each game for different reasons. I like how KH3 is developing so far, I loved how BBS played, and I have little reason to be worried about this game. I've never felt like I've had to be worried about how a game turns out before, so I don't feel like I need to start now, based on my past experience with this series. So whatever your reasons for having this many doubts, good luck with however you interpret the game, but me, I have a good feeling I'm going to be very satisfied. No game in the series is perfect, but it doesn't mean none of them are worth playing or enjoying.

Haha yeah, I'm one of those people. You're completely entitled to your own opinion; you can like whichever game you want. I'm kind of a hardcore KH gamer, so I see the games very analytically, which is why I tend to have an issue with BBS and DDD. After replaying the game multiple times, the only way I can get a challenge is to play on a high difficulty, but then I'm forced to spam the same attacks over and over again due to the game's bad balancing and AI, which I hope you can understand gets very boring after awhile. Why should I sit here and spam the same attacks over and over when I can play KH2, where the gameplay can be fun even if it's my 20th playthrough? 

 

Anyways, I think I see KH3 this way because I'm most likely gonna play the crap out of it when it comes out, regardless if it's good or bad. That being said, I will most likely view it in a critical way like I view the previous KH games, because that's just how I interpret the game when I play it.

No software is perfect, so it would be impossible to eliminate these things. What I meant was, is to hide these glitches etc as much as possible. Making a new game is different to remastering games (albeit 1 was rebuilt from the ground up, so I don't know what happened there). And I remember hearing that the Osaka team won't be the only ones working on the game. When the team working on FFXV finish, they will assist the Osaka team (or so I remember reading, I'm sorry, my memory is a bit vague in this regard)

No software is perfect, and it is impossible to have absolutely no glitches and crashes. However, 1.5 and 2.5 failed miserably in the aspect, as they literally added glitches and crashes from the original. You're right; making a new game is different to remastering an old game. However, my point still stands: if Osaka team have been shown to be lazy with HD Remakes, I don't have a lot of confidence in them to make KH3 as "flawless" (or as you say, to "hide these glitches") as possible. They can prove me wrong; KH3 can be almost perfect in terms of stability. But I still worry and I'll still have a pessimist mindset. Thats something I can't really change.

 

Also I believe there will be additional help after FFXV, but I'm pretty sure Nomura mentioned somewhere that the game will be about 80% (or something like that) made by Osaka Team, which is once again, more than enough to make me worry about it.

Edited July 10, 2016 by thatkingdomheartsguy

[Javelin434 3,164]

 

In all due seriousness though, you have the right idea to be pessimistic and realistic about your expectations on KH3. I try to do the same thing, not only to prevent making the production team feel bad when it doesn't meet my astronomical expectations for the game, but to be pleasantly surprised when they do add some cool touches to make the series better.

 

Better to have a lower [critical] expectation and be surprised than to have a high expectation and be disappointed. The last thing we need is to make the developers of the KH series feel like all their efforts were for nothing

[Soul_Seeker 753]

 

In all due seriousness though, you have the right idea to be pessimistic and realistic about your expectations on KH3. I try to do the same thing, not only to prevent making the production team feel bad when it doesn't meet my astronomical expectations for the game, but to be pleasantly surprised when they do add some cool touches to make the series better.

 

Better to have a lower [critical] expectation and be surprised than to have a high expectation and be disappointed. The last thing we need is to make the developers of the KH series feel like all their efforts were for nothing

 

Well, that's a good way to be optimistically pessimistic if I do say so myself.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Haha yeah, I'm one of those people. You're completely entitled to your own opinion; you can like whichever game you want. I'm kind of a hardcore KH gamer, so I see the games very analytically, which is why I tend to have an issue with BBS and DDD. After replaying the game multiple times, the only way I can get a challenge is to play on a high difficulty, but then I'm forced to spam the same attacks over and over again due to the game's bad balancing and AI, which I hope you can understand gets very boring after awhile. Why should I sit here and spam the same attacks over and over when I can play KH2, where the gameplay can be fun even if it's my 20th playthrough? 

 

Anyways, I think I see KH3 this way because I'm most likely gonna play the crap out of it when it comes out, regardless if it's good or bad. That being said, I will most likely view it in a critical way like I view the previous KH games, because that's just how I interpret the game when I play it.

No software is perfect, and it is impossible to have absolutely no glitches and crashes. However, 1.5 and 2.5 failed miserably in the aspect, as they literally added glitches and crashes from the original. You're right; making a new game is different to remastering an old game. However, my point still stands: if Osaka team have been shown to be lazy with HD Remakes, I don't have a lot of confidence in them to make KH3 as "flawless" (or as you say, to "hide these glitches") as possible. They can prove me wrong; KH3 can be almost perfect in terms of stability. But I still worry and I'll still have a pessimist mindset. Thats something I can't really change.

 

Also I believe there will be additional help after FFXV, but I'm pretty sure Nomura mentioned somewhere that the game will be about 80% (or something like that) made by Osaka Team, which is once again, more than enough to make me worry about it.

I play things in an entirely different way, I tend to try and go for a cinematic approach. It's too boring when you follow a "sure to win strategy", whether it be Birth by Sleep or KH2. It's more interesting if you treat things like a movie and pick juuuuuuust the right moves to make the battle intense and spectacular. In my mind, a boss battle may as well be an action scene in a movie, you got to make it look and feel the best you can make it, or in this case play it in the most interesting way. Some people say that Zexion's boss fight in Re:CoM is boring, but that's because they're not "playing" it, they're just spamming it. Yeah if you try playing like a no-nonsense pro you can make some bosses boring, but sometimes you just need to take a break from playing so seriously all the time to actually have FUN with a game. That's what a game's first goal is to be, fun, and sometimes it all depends on the way you play. I realize that if I actually took the time to do so, I could probably wipe out every other boss I come across, regardless of the KH title, but I feel that the moment I do that is the moment I stop trying to have fun with them. Having fun is a little more important to me than being challenged, so if it just so happens to be challenging on it's own while I'm having fun, it just adds to it. Actually, since the way I fight is so particular, it kind of inadvertantly becomes challenging itself. You deal hits, you let them deal hits, you wait for just the right moment to either use the best move or the right command, and sometimes it requires restarting the fight. It's kind of particular and a bit of an OCD way of doing things, but I'm never bored for one second while I do it...unless it's my 54th time attempting it that way.