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ladydualwieldin

Why new VAs don't invalidate the Rebirth Theory

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Excellent findings on this!

You make a good point on the whole reincarnation theory.

 

When it comes to the theory, it does sound better for the Foretellers to look more distinguishable from the modern characters :)

cus like you said, having a third Ven/Roxas person would be really weird and out of place xD

 

It would be better if they had different features like that one myth where somewhere around the world, there is always someone who would look like you but not exactly identical.

 

And yes, some people might make misinterpretations about the idea of "rebirth" or "reincarnation" because being reborn in another era doesn't mean you'll be a huge copy/paste thing from the original person. Like you said, the person who was "reborn" will share soul but will have completely different memories or ambitions. I was surprised how SE got new actors that are not only different, but, have that hint of similarity with the actors we know for Aqua, Ven, etc. It would be better to go for this direction rather than the Foretellers being a direct copy/paste thing.

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Excellent findings on this!You make a good point on the whole reincarnation theory.When it comes to the theory, it does sound better for the Foretellers to look more distinguishable from the modern characters :)cus like you said, having a third Ven/Roxas person would be really weird and out of place xDIt would be better if they had different features like that one myth where somewhere around the world, there is always someone who would look like you but not exactly identical.And yes, some people might make misinterpretations about the idea of "rebirth" or "reincarnation" because being reborn in another era doesn't mean you'll be a huge copy/paste thing from the original person. Like you said, the person who was "reborn" will share soul but will have completely different memories or ambitions. I was surprised how SE got new actors that are not only different, but, have that hint of similarity with the actors we know for Aqua, Ven, etc. It would be better to go for this direction rather than the Foretellers being a direct copy/paste thing.

 

Thanks! Haha, I've built up this idea so much now that I'm really fond of it, so if they do look just like them, I may be a little disappointed. xD (Although I've been a fan of this theory since I first heard of it, so more facetwins won't be a deal-breaker for me.)

 

And agreed! After Roxas and Ven, especially, (and Kairi/Xion/Namine) I would think it's obvious that Nomura doesn't just "duplicate" characters out of laziness or easy fanservice (whether they're literal physical copies or just something close). It's always plot relevant, so I'm not sure where all the misunderstanding and negativity about this theory come from.

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I'm going to be frank: Why? Just, why?

 

I like a good theory just as much as the next bloke, but when they're threatened with being proven wrong or invalid, the grasping at straws reaches: "Taking the piss" levels of straw grasping. I don't think Square give two shits about the idea of the Foretellers being the Ascendants of the Protagonists, especially since it would be a retcon of epic proportions for them to say this.

 

And we all know how everyone feels about retcons and potential retcons in THIS series... >.>

 

Although, in retrospect, I wouldn't put it past Nomura to do this. Makes things more confusing. xD (The Nobodies Twist was one of his best because, well, it was simple enough: They did have Hearts/the capability to grow them after all.)

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I'm going to be frank: Why? Just, why?

 

I like a good theory just as much as the next bloke, but when they're threatened with being proven wrong or invalid, the grasping at straws reaches: "Taking the piss" levels of straw grasping. I don't think Square give two shits about the idea of the Foretellers being the Ascendants of the Protagonists, especially since it would be a retcon of epic proportions for them to say this.

 

And we all know how everyone feels about retcons and potential retcons in THIS series... >.>

 

Although, in retrospect, I wouldn't put it past Nomura to do this. Makes things more confusing. xD (The Nobodies Twist was one of his best because, well, it was simple enough: They did have Hearts/the capability to grow them after all.)

 

We don't know the entire X story, so it's a bit of a stretch to say anything's "grasping" at this point. We don't know all the details or how it'll turn out, so it's equally unfair to assume Square does or doesn't care, especially when this whole plot is very much Nomura's baby and he's spent 12 games and 15 years leading up to this conclusion. Every plot element he introduces has had a point, or presumably will in KH3, and I doubt the undeniable similarities between the Foretellers and modern characters are a coincidence. There ARE no coincidences in this series, although of course that doesn't automatically point to reincarnation, as I said above.

 

And I'm honestly curious, how is this theory retconning anything? I see a lot of complaints about Nomura's past "retcons," but I don't know of any (except the time he said that Nobodies don't age and then took that back later, but to be fair he said that in an interview, so it was technically never canonly stated).

Edited by ladydualwieldin

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We don't know the entire X story, so it's a bit of a stretch to say anything's "grasping" at this point. We don't know all the details or how it'll turn out, so it's equally unfair to assume Square does or doesn't care, especially when this whole plot is very much Nomura's baby and he's spent 12 games and 15 years leading up to this conclusion. Every plot element he introduces has had a point, or presumably will in KH3.

 

And I'm honestly curious, how is this theory retconning anything? I see a lot of complaints about Nomura's past "retcons," but I don't know of any (except the time he said that Nobodies don't age and then took that back later, but to be fair he said that in an interview, so it was technically never canonly stated).

If anything, I'm mostly questioning the fact that there needs to be topics like this to prevent everyone from losing their shit. I mean, it's a Theory. They're possibilities, it's in the word's definition. If they're proven wrong, unfortunate but there's always others. If proven right, happy days.

 

Nothing until recently has pointed to the heroes having ancestors that could potentially be related to or be the Foretellers themselves, so many might see it as yet another retcon. It's not a personal belief of mine, but many hold that belief, especially due to the...*Sigh*, infamous Ansem twist. People cried to the skies that it was a retcon and that Nomura had no talent etc etc etc. I still hear it to this day.

 

Frankly, it's all a bit mad and I feel that this Topic embodies that madness with it's existence. Truth be told, I like this theory, hell I love it because it sounds brilliant, but it just strikes me as odd that topics that reassure supporters of the theory that it's still plausible at least need to exist. :/

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If anything, I'm mostly questioning the fact that there needs to be topics like this to prevent everyone from losing their shit. I mean, it's a Theory. They're possibilities, it's in the word's definition. If they're proven wrong, unfortunate but there's always others. If proven right, happy days.

 

Nothing until recently has pointed to the heroes having ancestors that could potentially be related to or be the Foretellers themselves, so many might see it as yet another retcon. It's not a personal belief of mine, but many hold that belief, especially due to the...*Sigh*, infamous Ansem twist. People cried to the skies that it was a retcon and that Nomura had no talent etc etc etc. I still hear it to this day.

 

Frankly, it's all a bit mad and I feel that this Topic embodies that madness with it's existence. Truth be told, I like this theory, hell I love it because it sounds brilliant, but it just strikes me as odd that topics that reassure supporters of the theory that it's still plausible at least need to exist. :/

 

If it's any consolation, I didn't make the post to "calm people down" or reassure anybody (although even if I did, I don't see why this should bug anyone). I made it because I thought it was an interesting twist that may very well happen and I was curious if anyone had any points to add, or even any legitimate rebuttals. Even if it's NOT canon in the end, I still enjoy discussing these possibilities because it's fun, and I'm now really fond of this possibility.

 

Also, let's break this retcon business down, as defined by Google:

 

retcon: a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.

 

Just because nothing has pointed to the characters having relations to the Foretellers doesn't mean it's a retcon. A retcon would be if something previously said that they are NOT related to the Foretellers in any way, or if some piece of information existed against which this theory could be contrasted to say "oh, look! this is a contradiction!" The theory isn't a contradiction, it's a plot development. The word "retcon" is used much too loosely these days and rarely in the right context. The Ansem thing can't be a retcon, either, IMO, because there's nothing in earlier canon to contradict it; it was a development.

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If it's any consolation, I didn't make the post to "calm people down" or reassure anybody (although even if I did, I don't see why this should bug anyone). I made it because I thought it was an interesting twist that may very well happen and I was curious if anyone had any points to add, or even any legitimate rebuttals. Even if it's NOT canon in the end, I still enjoy discussing these possibilities because it's fun, and I'm now really fond of this possibility.

 

Also, let's break this retcon business down, as defined by Google:

 

retcon: a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.

 

Just because nothing has pointed to the characters having relations to the Foretellers doesn't mean it's a retcon. A retcon would be if something previously said that they are NOT related to the Foretellers in any way, or if some piece of information existed against which this theory could be contrasted to say "oh, look! this is a contradiction!" The theory isn't a contradiction, it's a plot development. The word "retcon" is used much too loosely these days and rarely in the right context. The Ansem thing can't be a retcon, either, IMO, because there's nothing in earlier canon to contradict it; it was a development.

That's fair enough. It just bugged me a little, not sure why, but I felt it had to be said at the time.

 

And I agree completely about the term retcon being so thrown about needlessly, but if the KH Fanbase as an entity has proven anything is that it's unreasonable, inconsiderate and quick to rage. I'm not saying that applies to you, me or anyone here, but there are many bad examples.

 

Plus, the Ansem Twist was popularized as a "bad retcon" by Joshua Burner, aka: joshscorcher, who while I love him as a YouTuber, I utterly disagree with him on that, even that he's flat out wrong.

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 if the KH Fanbase as an entity has proven anything is that it's unreasonable, inconsiderate and quick to rage. I'm not saying that applies to you, me or anyone here, but there are many bad examples.

 

I can agree with that wholeheartedly. xD It's not the fandom as a whole, but I've been raged at plenty of times for simple opinions. it's a sad thing.

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Thanks! Haha, I've built up this idea so much now that I'm really fond of it, so if they do look just like them, I may be a little disappointed. xD (Although I've been a fan of this theory since I first heard of it, so more facetwins won't be a deal-breaker for me.)

 

And agreed! After Roxas and Ven, especially, (and Kairi/Xion/Namine) I would think it's obvious that Nomura doesn't just "duplicate" characters out of laziness or easy fanservice (whether they're literal physical copies or just something close). It's always plot relevant, so I'm not sure where all the misunderstanding and negativity about this theory come from.

 

ahaha same xD

I love the theory too!

 

and yes! Roxas and Ven look identical but they have some small distinguishable features from each other. {Like their faces and dem eyebrows ( e u e )}

and for Kairi, Namine, and Xion, they look identical but they have obvious different aspects.

It should definitely be plot relevant if the Foretellers end up looking like everybody xD

 

Really great addition to the theory tho! ; u ;

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ahaha same xD

I love the theory too!

 

and yes! Roxas and Ven look identical but they have some small distinguishable features from each other. {Like their faces and dem eyebrows ( e u e )}

and for Kairi, Namine, and Xion, they look identical but they have obvious different aspects.

It should definitely be plot relevant if the Foretellers end up looking like everybody xD

 

Really great addition to the theory tho! ; u ;

 

Definitely! And if the plot finds a way for the Foretellers to still be alive somehow or return from the dead via ~heart shenanigans~, that would be doubly interesting. :|a (I'm not counting on that, personally, but WHO KNOWS...)

 

thank you! :> 

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Definitely! And if the plot finds a way for the Foretellers to still be alive somehow or return from the dead via ~heart shenanigans~, that would be doubly interesting. :|a (I'm not counting on that, personally, but WHO KNOWS...) thank you! :>

yup! still feel like they're alive somehowthat old mansion with the unicorn statues looks like it's got some significanceand your welcome :D

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