Continuing down this rabbit hole (KH Rebirth theory)

[The 13th Kenpachi 4,279]

  On 6/8/2016 at 9:21 PM, Kaweebo said:

To recap, the KH Rebirth theory posits the idea that each member of the Foretellers is a version of characters we know and love from the KH series based on their respective color schemes and designs. From top to bottom, Unicornus is Riku, Ursus Terra, Anguis Aqua, Leopardos Ventus and Vulpes Kairi. Obviously, there's a very important character that's been left out of this: Sora! In a previous thread, I figured that maybe Sora is the character known as Ephemera. Obviously, that leaves out a few other characters but Ephemera and the Foretellers seem to be the most important ones (along with the mysterious man in the black robes)

 

As is obvious from the fact that each of the Foretellers' names come from the seven deadly sins, if they are indeed versions of characters we already know, then they are also darker versions of characters we already know. Which means they're put in situations that are similar to what we've seen, but under much more hostile circumstances.

 

Now, the most poignant line that leads to this subversion of character that I've seen is the Ursus Foreteller's - from now on, 'Aced' - line: 

 

"We need to defy the Master's teachings to protect the world!" 

 

Now, whatever 'the Master's teachings' are, it's not a stretch to assume that means they must protect (and collect) the light. Also known as 'lux'. After all, that's what we've been doing in the Unchained X game, right? They've gathered Keyblade wielders together in order to collect it. However, much like Terra before him, it may be that Aced believes that collecting and protecting light isn't good enough - they need the power of darkness in order to save the world. He seems very intent on this position, even going so far as to incapacitate (if not outright murder) the Leopardos Foreteller, Gula. 

 

To the other Foretellers, Aced is the instigator. The one straying away from the path. Much like how Aqua and Master Eraqus were not sure if Terra wasn't succumbing to his desire for darkness. Obviously, the situations differ in each respective character's demeanor. Terra felt the pull of darkness, but every time he used it, he felt terrible for defying Eraqus. However, Aced believes he is justified in rebelling against his Master's teachings.

 

Another aspect of that confrontation with Gula is that it mirrors that of the struggle between Ventus and Terra, though obviously more violently. Ventus, too, was afraid Terra would fall to darkness in BBS. It's possible that Gula suspected the same of Aced (given his demeanor) and found him doing something wrong, resulting in a fight that leaves him injured.

 

Seeing this is Ava, the Vulpes Foreteller. She seems distraught by all the fighting as it is and watching two of her fellows killing each other must be horrifying. Ava is also, so far, the only Foreteller to ever interact with the regular Keyblade wielder, Ephemera. Is it possible that their interactions here set the stage for the eventual relationship between Sora and Kairi, even if barely?

 

The Unicornus Foreteller, Ira, through it all, appears to be trying to find more information from whatever source he can. His copy of the Book of Prophecies and even a mysterious hooded man. Much like how Aced could possibly be swaying from the path through coercion (perhaps he's meeting with the same man) it's possible that Ira is conversing with him too, though more for informational purposes than anything else.

 

Which, of course, leads us to the idea that the hooded man is some form of Xehanort. It makes sense, the coat is a symbol of the Organization and of him. It's possible the hooded man is playing sides, trying to turn everyone against each other for his own purposes, much like how Master Xehanort (and Ansem, SoD) played on Terra and Riku's feelings and turning them slowly to darkness.

 

There isn't much we know about Invi, the Anguis Foreteller, but she seems responsible just like Aqua and most of her scenes involve interacting with Aced.(Though she's there when Ira is reading from the Book) Much like how Terra and Aqua clash in BBS, so too do their other versions in Chi. 

 

To sum up, I think the events that lead up to the Keyblade War are an amalgamation of events concerning our main characters in the games. I think the hooded man is playing everybody and has convinced Aced to turn his back on his Master's teachings and fooling Ira into believing he must embrace war because it's 'not possible' to stop it. Invi and Gula both fight with Aced, though only Gula loses so far as we know, either injured or dead. (similar to Ventus's fate at the end of BBS) And Ava, the Kairi representation, is trying to find alternatives to war and asking the people of her Union to flee. Everybody dies and are reincarnated into more hopeful incarnations. 

 

Or this could all be bullcrap and none of it matters. 

 

 I hate that rebirth theory since it has no evidence and is just speculation, we've seen no faces of the foretellers and the only thing that matches the protagonists to the foretellers are the colour schemes. Terra's situation with the darkness and Ursus defying the teachings are two completely different situation. Terra just couldn't control the darkness inside him, he never said that light wasn't good enough. Also, Terra never had to collect light to save the world.

 

The Aqua and Terra fight is completely different to the Ursus and Anguis fight, since Aqua and Terra are practicing for an exam...

 

Seeing this is Ava, the Vulpes Foreteller. She seems distraught by all the fighting as it is and watching two of her fellows killing each other must be horrifying. Ava is also, so far, the only Foreteller to ever interact with the regular Keyblade wielder, Ephemera. Is it possible that their interactions here set the stage for the eventual relationship between Sora and Kairi, even if barely?

 

There are ZERO, CERO, CERO, hints toward Ava x Epehemera. The fanbase have literally seen a boy and a girl sitting together and said

"Omg they are sitting together so they must like each other!"

Ephemera wants the Book of Prophecies, that's why he asked her about it.

 

Oh and Ephemera is not connected to Sora at all imo. The rebirth theory cannot apply to them, their hair colours are completely different, their faces are different, Sora is a numbskull. Ephemera is more of a Riku or a YX since he actually wants to learn things he shouldn't know about (KH1 Riku). Sora and Ephemera don't even have similar mannerisms, at least Sora and Ventus connection is apparent due to the battle stances and the personalities.

 

They probably only hired Jessie as the VA for Ephemera since he has a good relationship with Square. No point in hiring a completely new VA.

 

I think that everyone is ignoring the obvious and instead just making random speculations that have little basis. Look at the evidence we already have and what we know, rather than looking at what we don't know.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

  On 6/9/2016 at 12:54 PM, Isamu_Kuno said:

Ven's heart was the only reason Sora could even hold a Keyblade in the first place. Had he not have had Ven's heart inside him at the time, he would have never been able to use the Keyblade, and thus, never earned the right to keep it. Without Ven's heart the Kingdom Key would have dematerialized within seconds of Sora touching it, just like it does with every non-wielder. Sora did not have the qualifications at first, he earned the right to it by strengthening his heart through all the friends he made and experirances he had duing his journey, Whereas Riku weakened his heart by abandoning those same things in favor of darkness.

I'm pretty sure that's been dismissed. That obviously wasn't the case when they made the first game and using that as an excuse now is basically retconning the original intent. Sora got the Keyblade because he was the closest to Riku at the time, not because of Ventus. Ventus was a broken heart, hell, you could argue Kairi gave Sora more a reason to hold the Keyblade given her heart was fully functioning when it entered him. But neither did a thing, because it was entirely circumstantial for Sora to wield it. 

 

 

  On 6/9/2016 at 1:41 PM, Shinobi Palace said:

 I hate that rebirth theory since it has no evidence and is just speculation

 

That's why it's fun.

 

 

  On 6/9/2016 at 1:41 PM, Shinobi Palace said:

The Aqua and Terra fight is completely different to the Ursus and Anguis fight, since Aqua and Terra are practicing for an exam...

 

That's my point. Their fight is a a more violent version of the times Terra and Aqua have fought each other. Whereas in BBS, Terra and Aqua fought for an exam, here their other versions are battling over philosophical differences.

 

 

  On 6/9/2016 at 1:41 PM, Shinobi Palace said:

 

There are ZERO, CERO, CERO, hints toward Ava x Epehemera. The fanbase have literally seen a boy and a girl sitting together and said

"Omg they are sitting together so they must like each other!"

Ephemera wants the Book of Prophecies, that's why he asked her about it.

I never said it hinted at a relationship between them. I just think it's interesting that the only scene Ephemera has with a Foreteller is with Ava, given that in this theory they both represent people who grow to care about each other in the future. I'm not shipping Ephemera x Ava lol

 

 

  On 6/9/2016 at 1:41 PM, Shinobi Palace said:

 

Oh and Ephemera is not connected to Sora at all imo. The rebirth theory cannot apply to them, their hair colours are completely different, their faces are different, Sora is a numbskull. Ephemera is more of a Riku or a YX since he actually wants to learn things he shouldn't know about (KH1 Riku). Sora and Ephemera don't even have similar mannerisms, at least Sora and Ventus connection is apparent due to the battle stances and the personalities.

You misunderstand the point behind this theory. They're not 1:1 the exact same person, just spiritual successors that have similarities in their dispositions. Their hair color, faces, none of that matters. Riku can't be Ephemera in this theory because his character is Ira, the Unicornus Foreteller. And if anybody represents YX, it's the hooded man. Though I admit, the only reason I even say Ephemera is Sora is just to have Sora be there somewhere. It's likely he's not part of events at all.

 

 

  On 6/9/2016 at 1:41 PM, Shinobi Palace said:

They probably only hired Jessie as the VA for Ephemera since he has a good relationship with Square. No point in hiring a completely new VA.

 

Jessie McCartney? Well, he's not playing Ephemera anyway. It's a guy named Michael Johnston. 

 

 

  On 6/9/2016 at 1:41 PM, Shinobi Palace said:

 

I think that everyone is ignoring the obvious and instead just making random speculations that have little basis. Look at the evidence we already have and what we know, rather than looking at what we don't know.

Oh, I have. And I believe it's too deliberate to be left up to random chance. Some of this is just for shits and giggles, like Sora=Ephemera, but the Foretellers were obviously designed to resemble in their color coordination and now demeanors, several of the main characters we already know. Are you going to sit there and tell me this isn't at least a tiny bit worth looking at?

Edited June 9, 2016 by Kaweebo

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

  On 6/9/2016 at 4:17 PM, Kaweebo said:

I'm pretty sure that's been dismissed. That obviously wasn't the case when they made the first game and using that as an excuse now is basically retconning the original intent. Sora got the Keyblade because he was the closest to Riku at the time, not because of Ventus. Ventus was a broken heart, hell, you could argue Kairi gave Sora more a reason to hold the Keyblade given her heart was fully functioning when it entered him. But neither did a thing, because it was entirely circumstantial for Sora to wield it. 

 

 

That's why it's fun.

 

 

That's my point. Their fight is a a more violent version of the times Terra and Aqua have fought each other. Whereas in BBS, Terra and Aqua fought for an exam, here their other versions are battling over philosophical differences.

 

 

I never said it hinted at a relationship between them. I just think it's interesting that the only scene Ephemera has with a Foreteller is with Ava, given that in this theory they both represent people who grow to care about each other in the future. I'm not shipping Ephemera x Ava lol

 

 

You misunderstand the point behind this theory. They're not 1:1 the exact same person, just spiritual successors that have similarities in their dispositions. Their hair color, faces, none of that matters. Riku can't be Ephemera in this theory because his character is Ira, the Unicornus Foreteller. And if anybody represents YX, it's the hooded man. Though I admit, the only reason I even say Ephemera is Sora is just to have Sora be there somewhere. It's likely he's not part of events at all.

 

 

Jessie McCartney? Well, he's not playing Ephemera anyway. It's a guy named Michael Johnston. 

 

 

Oh, I have. And I believe it's too deliberate to be left up to random chance. Some of this is just for shits and giggles, like Sora=Ephemera, but the Foretellers were obviously designed to resemble in their color coordination and now demeanors, several of the main characters we already know. Are you going to sit there and tell me this isn't at least a tiny bit worth looking at?

Yeah it's a retcon, but it was Nomura who retconned it, not me. He does that a lot. It's like saying Ansem SoD isn't Xehanort's heartlss because that wasn't the intent in the original game. But he is because that's how Nomura wrote it.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

  On 6/9/2016 at 4:37 PM, Isamu_Kuno said:

Yeah it's a retcon, but it was Nomura who retconned it, not me. He does that a lot. It's like saying Ansem SoD isn't Xehanort's heartlss because that wasn't the intent in the original game. But he is because that's how Nomura wrote it.

Okay well can you point to a place where it was specifically said that was the case? Because I've never heard Nomura say it was because of Ventus. My point was that they didn't do that. Ventus's heart taking harbor in Sora was just to explain why Roxas looks the way he does, not explain how Sora got the Keyblade. That was already explained in the first game. 

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

  On 6/9/2016 at 1:24 PM, Isamu_Kuno said:

Well, I have to accept Nomura's word. But that brings into question how exactly Sora is a normal boy when he always had the exact same qualities all these "special" people have? "He's just a normal kid that could have come from anywhere" how does this not also apply to Riku, Terra Aqua Ven, or even Eraqus? They could have all been regular kids before getting keyblades.Also, it seems liek Nomura wrote himself a "get out of jail free" card here in regards to dual wileding. Who's to say that, because Sora had the right qualities from the get go, he'd be able to Dual wield even without ven by sommoning both the Kingdom Key, and the Keyblade called by his own heart.

It's not like the qualities to wield the Keyblade are super rare and uncommon. All you really need is a strong will and heart. Those other characters are special in the sense that they were chosen to wield the Keyblade. Sora was not chosen; he had the qualities necessary, and through special circumstances was able to acquire it. Hell, Aqua was going to preform the ceremony for Sora but chose not because she didn't want to break up Riku and Sora's friendship. She saw the right qualities in Sora the same way Terra saw the right qualities in Riku. Sora is ordinary, but he had a strong heart. Through a set of extraordinary circumstances, and the connections he made with his friends, his strong heart allowed him to become more.

[Valhite 168]

Judging from the trailer, it seems that Ursus is the traitor (or shall we say, "used") well, that is the same as TERRA (traitor) to the trio bbs

 

Meanwhile we saw Unicornis spoke a few words with the Black hooded guy. He tried to fix things, whereas everything became more ruined because of him. It's very resemble riku, to think that the dark is the key to everything, and then, he ruined everything

[Kittenz 4,281]

People seem to think that they ''won't be unique'' if this is true. but that's stupid. Having a past life doesn't mean you're that same as you were in that past life.

 

Also I think Ephemeras face is too similar to Sora's to be coincidence.