Ok, I have two questions.

[MasterLorX 43]

If I'm understanding correctly its a real heartless, but its also a copy?

heartless are made of darknessriku can shape darkness, he decided to copy Sora's silhouette and the keyblade silhouette to show him how much he was good at shaping darkness

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

This should answer your question:

 

Xehanort Report 10As was to be expected, Ventus lacked the constitution for such an ordeal. I was able to remove the darkness inside him and create Vanitas, a heart of pure darkness, but Ventus drifted into the clutches of sleep.

Ventus’s heart of pure light and Vanitas’s heart of pure darkness… If both could be made strong enough to one day clash, I knew the χ-blade would be forged.

But Vanitas took too much of Ventus’s heart, and from that fracture, I could see the last of Ventus’s light was slipping away. The boy deserved a place to spend his final moments peacefully. And what should come to mind but my own boyhood home.

My legs took me there unbidden, and as I stood there on the same beach where I had made my choice so many years ago, I thought: not a single thing has changed. Here, in this quiet world, time marches in place. Content that Ventus would find peace here, I started to walk away—but just then, the boy held up his Keyblade. The light within him had not died.

—

Xehanort Report 11Ventus and Vanitas were not matched in power; I could not train them together, or Vanitas’s darkness would gnaw away what little Ventus had left.

Of course, since I needed a place where boy’s light might flourish, the answer was obvious: Eraqus, and his absolutes.

Considering how we had parted ways, I expected friction—but if anything, Eraqus seemed delighted to see me again. He readily agreed to take care of Ventus. Now I need only wait for the boy’s heart to get stronger.

I had not visited this second home of mine for some time, and discovered Eraqus had already found two pupils of his own. Within one of them, Terra, I sensed something. The boy, though well-intentioned, seeks power single-mindedly. And that kind of hunger is a seedbed for darkness.

I had found my vessel.

—

 

Yes indeed  You got it now.

 

 

heartless are made of darknessriku can shape darkness, he decided to copy Sora's silhouette and the keyblade silhouette to show him how much he was good at shaping darkness

i wonder if nobodies could be shaped as well.

[MasterLorX 43]

This should answer your question: Xehanort Report 10As was to be expected, Ventus lacked the constitution for such an ordeal. I was able to remove the darkness inside him and create Vanitas, a heart of pure darkness, but Ventus drifted into the clutches of sleep.Ventus’s heart of pure light and Vanitas’s heart of pure darkness… If both could be made strong enough to one day clash, I knew the χ-blade would be forged.But Vanitas took too much of Ventus’s heart, and from that fracture, I could see the last of Ventus’s light was slipping away. The boy deserved a place to spend his final moments peacefully. And what should come to mind but my own boyhood home.My legs took me there unbidden, and as I stood there on the same beach where I had made my choice so many years ago, I thought: not a single thing has changed. Here, in this quiet world, time marches in place. Content that Ventus would find peace here, I started to walk away—but just then, the boy held up his Keyblade. The light within him had not died.—Xehanort Report 11Ventus and Vanitas were not matched in power; I could not train them together, or Vanitas’s darkness would gnaw away what little Ventus had left.Of course, since I needed a place where boy’s light might flourish, the answer was obvious: Eraqus, and his absolutes.Considering how we had parted ways, I expected friction—but if anything, Eraqus seemed delighted to see me again. He readily agreed to take care of Ventus. Now I need only wait for the boy’s heart to get stronger.I had not visited this second home of mine for some time, and discovered Eraqus had already found two pupils of his own. Within one of them, Terra, I sensed something. The boy, though well-intentioned, seeks power single-mindedly. And that kind of hunger is a seedbed for darkness.I had found my vessel.—

Thank you :)but so does this mean Ventus originally had a lot of darkness in his heart and few light, this would explain why Vanitas' heart was stronger at the beginning

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

i wonder if nobodies could be shaped as well.

 

What do you mean by shaped? As in a real nobody shaped by darkness?

 

Thank you :)but so does this mean Ventus originally had a lot of darkness in his heart and few light, this would explain why Vanitas' heart was stronger at the beginning

 

YW Well we know that someone wasn't meant to be split like that and exist or live. Vanitas should've never existed. Ven being weaker could be because of that and  that the light part left was not enough to sustain him. 

[MasterLorX 43]

YW Well we know that someone wasn't meant to be split like that and exist or live. Vanitas should've never existed. Ven being weaker could be because of that and that the light part left was not enough to sustain him.

I get it, Nomura logic XDbtw, thinking again about this he probably originally had 50% light 50% darkness, xehanort needed balance to create the (fake) X-blade Edited March 6, 2016 by MasterLorX

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

What do you mean by shaped? As in a real nobody shaped by darkness?

 

 

YW Well we know that someone wasn't meant to be split like that and exist or live. Vanitas should've never existed. Ven being weaker could be because of that and  that the light part left was not enough to sustain him. 

like could Xemnas shape one

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

So my original thought was right, Vanitus has half of ven's body... I was thinking that he would be on the lines of how Ansem is. But that didn't give me the answer to my second question which is: Could strong heartless wield keyblades? I thought of this because of X update, the new heartless came out of the Lanes between (I cant remember if that was the official name or not) and only users of the keyblade can open them. I would have said yes because of sora's heartless in KH and Re:coded but those might have been fake keyblades.

He is half of Ventus' body as much as he is half of his heart, he is just half of all of him, period. Ansem is nothing like Vanitas, Ansem is the Heartless of Apprentice Xehanort. He was a powerful enough Heartless to retain his sense of self but either lost his human form upon turning into a Heartless or gained one and simply relinquished it for the sake of time travel. Either way he does not regain a human form until he possesses and transforms the body of Riku into a vessel of his liking. Ansem looks like a human, but he is a Heartless through and through. Vanitas is dark, but he is still a human. Their natures are nothing alike, the only thing they share in common is who's side they are on.

 

In order to wield a Keyblade you need to have a strong heart, and since Heartless lack hearts (or are hearts corrupted by Darkness...which I guess still counts as being devoid of emotion and feelings, so it's basically the same thing as not having a heart...figuratively....I think...I don't even know anymore), they don't have the qualifications necessary to wield a Keyblade, regardless of if they used to be Keyblade wielders when they were human or not. Though we have seen Anti-Sora and Data-Sora's Heartless wielding Keyblades, those are not "true" Keyblades, they are shadowy copies, or even data-copies in the Data-Heartless's case. They may look like Keyblades, but they are just extensions of the Heartless' power itself, they are essentially just part of the creature. It's literally just a shadow of a Keyblade. The Data-Sora's Heartless only had that much power because of all the Dark Data it absorbed over the course of the game, it had nothing to do with it being a "Heartless Keyblade wielder".

 

I'm sure Flaming Lea is already giving more direct answers that might contradict a few of my own, I tend to prefer looking a bit more in depth with my theories to leave open room for more possibilities. But between the two of us and most of what everyone is saying you'll find your answer. Hope this helps.

I wasn't really classifying him as one, I was just kinda saying that the situation of Ventus and Vanitas is kind of similar to the process of a Nobody in that a Nobody is half of a person. Vanitas is half of Ventus. Kinda get the gist of what I'm meaning? I'm not saying he is a Nobody, I'm just saying that the process of Vanitas' existence is similar.

As far as the similarity to the Nobody thing goes, they were only trying to draw a parallel between the Ventus/Vanitas incident with the Sora/Roxas incident, two halves of a greater whole opposing each other in an epic clash. Classic prequel style parallelism/foreshadowing.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

He is half of Ventus' body as much as he is half of his heart, he is just half of all of him, period. Ansem is nothing like Vanitas, Ansem is the Heartless of Apprentice Xehanort. He was a powerful enough Heartless to retain his sense of self but either lost his human form upon turning into a Heartless or gained one and simply relinquished it for the sake of time travel. Either way he does not regain a human form until he possesses and transforms the body of Riku into a vessel of his liking. Ansem looks like a human, but he is a Heartless through and through. Vanitas is dark, but he is still a human. Their natures are nothing alike, the only thing they share in common is who's side they are on.

 

In order to wield a Keyblade you need to have a strong heart, and since Heartless lack hearts (or are hearts corrupted by Darkness...which I guess still counts as being devoid of emotion and feelings, so it's basically the same thing as not having a heart...figuratively....I think...I don't even know anymore), they don't have the qualifications necessary to wield a Keyblade, regardless of if they used to be Keyblade wielders when they were human or not. Though we have seen Anti-Sora and Data-Sora's Heartless wielding Keyblades, those are not "true" Keyblades, they are shadowy copies, or even data-copies in the Data-Heartless's case. They may look like Keyblades, but they are just extensions of the Heartless' power itself, they are essentially just part of the creature. It's literally just a shadow of a Keyblade. The Data-Sora's Heartless only had that much power because of all the Dark Data it absorbed over the course of the game, it had nothing to do with it being a "Heartless Keyblade wielder".

 

I'm sure Flaming Lea is already giving more direct answers that might contradict a few of my own, I tend to prefer looking a bit more in depth with my theories to leave open room for more possibilities. But between the two of us and most of what everyone is saying you'll find your answer. Hope this helps.

As far as the similarity to the Nobody thing goes, they were only trying to draw a parallel between the Ventus/Vanitas incident with the Sora/Roxas incident, two halves of a greater whole opposing each other in an epic clash. Classic prequel style parallelism/foreshadowing.

yeah, I forgot Vanitus is half of his body too so I thought he was just a walking heart just like Ansem was and since he was just darkness I was thinking that he would be the definition of a heartless, but i remember now.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

like could Xemnas shape one

So you mean could a Nobody be shaped into a "copy" like with the Anti-Sora? Well we don't really know that much about Nobodies to understand their full nature, but seeing as how Darkness seems to be more "malleable" stuff and Nobodies are essentially made out of literal Nothingness, I would imagine the process would be a lot more difficult, if even possible at all. But common Nobodies have been shown to have a common knack for disguising themselves as other humans through illusion, though I think this was only really showcased within the Data Twilight Town, so it's possible that it was just them manipulating the data to disguise themselves. Point is until we see it happen we don't know what they can do, but I would still imagine it's easier to do it with a Heartless, since again, Darkness is supposed to be this "shortcut to power".

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I get it, Nomura logic xDbtw, thinking again about this he probably originally had 50% light 50% darkness, xehanort needed balance to create the (fake) X-blade

 

That's why he needed to train them so they would be equal on every term.

 

like could Xemnas shape one

 

Well nobodies are the leftover shell ( body and soul) They have a physical form. Namine being an anomoly who did not technically have her own body.Similarly, Vanitas and walking heart Sora both had a makeshift body that served it's purpose but it wasn't their real bodies per se ...However we have things like the heart shapes the vessel like Ven's heart gave Roxas' appearance since Sora's body had Ven's heart inside.

yeah, I forgot Vanitus is half of his body too so I thought he was just a walking heart just like Ansem was and since he was just darkness I was thinking that he would be the definition of a heartless, but i remember now.

 

He was basically a walking darkness heart. He created his own body and soul i guess but nowhere has it been stated he uses half of Ven's body.

[MasterLorX 43]

like could Xemnas shape one

here's a theory I've made about this:if you look at the nobody enemies we fight in KH2 they seem to be a dark body in a suit (just look at Dusks) this made me think Xemnas has the power to shape them and to make different types of nobodies, each related to a particular org. member (Samurai and Roxaa for example).Basically I'm saying that we never saw the real form of a nobody (I suppose their true form is simply a dark humanoid creature btw,) and that Xemnas shapes them to make them more powerful, even because I don't think the nobody symbol(the inverted white heart) just magically appears on them, that is the "xehanort mark" and this makes me think their shape was artificially created by xemnas

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

So you mean could a Nobody be shaped into a "copy" like with the Anti-Sora? Well we don't really know that much about Nobodies to understand their full nature, but seeing as how Darkness seems to be more "malleable" stuff and Nobodies are essentially made out of literal Nothingness, I would imagine the process would be a lot more difficult, if even possible at all. But common Nobodies have been shown to have a common knack for disguising themselves as other humans through illusion, though I think this was only really showcased within the Data Twilight Town, so it's possible that it was just them manipulating the data to disguise themselves. Point is until we see it happen we don't know what they can do, but I would still imagine it's easier to do it with a Heartless, since again, Darkness is supposed to be this "shortcut to power".

 

 

That's why he needed to train them so they would be equal on every term.

 

 

Well nobodies are the leftover shell ( body and soul) They have a physical form. Namine being an anomoly who did not technically have her own body.Similarly, Vanitas and walking heart Sora both had a makeshift body that served it's purpose but it wasn't their real bodies per se ...However we have things like the heart shapes the vessel like Ven's heart gave Roxas' appearance since Sora's body had Ven's heart inside.

 

He was basically a walking darkness heart. He created his own body and soul i guess but nowhere has it been stated he uses half of Ven's body.

 

here's a theory I've made about this:if you look at the nobody enemies we fight in KH2 they seem to be a dark body in a suit (just look at Dusks) this made me think Xemnas has the power to shape them and to make different types of nobodies, each related to a particular org. member (Samurai and Roxaa for example).Basically I'm saying that we never saw the real form of a nobody (I suppose their true form is simply a dark humanoid creature btw,) and that Xemnas shapes them to make them more powerful, even because I don't think the nobody symbol(the inverted white heart) just magically appears on them, that is the "xehanort mark" and this makes me think their shape was artificially created by xemnas

I was about to say this ^ but mostly just the fact that the lower class nobodies seem to be modeled after a particular org. member and it seems that they also serve them. So, that is what makes me think that Xemnas or someone could mold nobodies.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I was about to say this ^ but mostly just the fact that the lower class nobodies seem to be modeled after a particular org. member and it seems that they also serve them. So, that is what makes me think that Xemnas or someone could mold nobodies.

 

In that case we don't know how that works so i guess it's possible.

[MasterLorX 43]

I was about to say this ^ but mostly just the fact that the lower class nobodies seem to be modeled after a particular org. member and it seems that they also serve them. So, that is what makes me think that Xemnas or someone could mold nobodies.

maybe I'm just overthinking but look at this: http://www.google.it/search?q=Kingdom+hearts+2+dusk&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-j9uria3LAhWFXiwKHaEyD9oQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=640#imgrc=bVs_vK7x-RgEDM%3Awe clearly see a zig zag mouth and the zipper around the face makes me think Dusks are SOMETHING inside a suit, and that SOMETHING is the Dusk true form, if I'm right I hope we see this in KH3that face is quite creepy btw [tension rising intensifies] Edited March 6, 2016 by MasterLorX

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

That's why he needed to train them so they would be equal on every term.

 

 

Well nobodies are the leftover shell ( body and soul) They have a physical form. Namine being an anomoly who did not technically have her own body.Similarly, Vanitas and walking heart Sora both had a makeshift body that served it's purpose but it wasn't their real bodies per se ...However we have things like the heart shapes the vessel like Ven's heart gave Roxas' appearance since Sora's body had Ven's heart inside.

 

He was basically a walking darkness heart. He created his own body and soul i guess but nowhere has it been stated he uses half of Ven's body.

The basis of that is since Vanitas' heart is half of Ventus' it can be assumed that his body also comes from Ventus'. It's nothing confirmed, just a speculation. Beyond the whole "heart shapes the body" thing (and that has only been applied to Roxas' body and Sora's "walking heart form" so far), there hasn't been much explanation about how a body works in the KH universe. So far all we know is that supposedly it functions like ours do, only the heart actually is the source of one's being while a soul is simply their life force and the mind being a sense of self and intelligence, and that even without the heart if the soul remains within the body, the being can still exist and live as something else. The only thing that we have recently touched upon is that in some special circumstances the particular nature of the heart can influence the nature of the body it has, and that without a "proper" body the heart can create a sort of facsimile around itself, which apparently can still function like a real body (assuming that Sora, Donald, and Goofy ever took a break to eat anything while going through Castle Oblivion).

 

With all this we know that in at least those kinds of cases (with Roxas and Sora) a body could be formed around a heart if the original vessel is unavailable and said vessel's appearance can be affected by the heart within it. However, seeing as how the situation that happened with Ventus is an unusual event that is not supposed to happen normally, it's really hard to keep track of what natural mechanics or "rules" are at play here. The way I see it either Vanitas is half of everything Ventus was when he was whole: heart, body, etc, or he simply was just a heart but grew a sort of facsimile body around himself similar to how Sora's heart did before he fused with Roxas in KH2. Obviously however his body was formed it still gained the appearance of Sora once Sora's heart connected with Ven's, but the mystery still remains as to how his body actually came into existence.

 

I guess in the end it doesn't really matter since he served his purpose in that story and now Ventus is whole once again, but I guess it still kind of bugs me since now we aren't really certain as to what extent Ventus' fission came down to, just the heart or everything? If the X-Blade from that game had to be created from 2 beings of pure or equal Light and Darkness, does it matter whether one's body is real or not, or does it require the two to be on equal grounds in terms of existence? 

 

here's a theory I've made about this:if you look at the nobody enemies we fight in KH2 they seem to be a dark body in a suit (just look at Dusks) this made me think Xemnas has the power to shape them and to make different types of nobodies, each related to a particular org. member (Samurai and Roxaa for example).Basically I'm saying that we never saw the real form of a nobody (I suppose their true form is simply a dark humanoid creature btw,) and that Xemnas shapes them to make them more powerful, even because I don't think the nobody symbol(the inverted white heart) just magically appears on them, that is the "xehanort mark" and this makes me think their shape was artificially created by xemnas

 

 

I was about to say this ^ but mostly just the fact that the lower class nobodies seem to be modeled after a particular org. member and it seems that they also serve them. So, that is what makes me think that Xemnas or someone could mold nobodies.

 

Oddly enough, I'm choosing not to look into it that deeply, mostly cause it doesn't seem like the mystery of the Nobodies will be the big focus of the next game, at least as far as I can see. I think if anything the sort of shadowy form beneath is just supposed to represent how there's practically nothing left of who the Nobody once was, how they are nothing more than an empty shell, or in this case, an empty suit. If the body can be thought of as a "suit" for the heart, without the heart all that's left is the suit. With no wearer, the bodies are like empty clothes at the mercy of the wind, which might account for their bizarre movements and their stretchy and at times flat and hollow appearances. I mean think of it, there are several Nobodies that when parried and stunned either curl up into a helpless mass or even separate into separate shapes, like how a shirt and pants are separate articles of clothing. It might also double as a metaphor towards the Organization, as to how they are all clad in coats and yet are just empty remnants of the beings they used to be. Even though they appear human, in reality they are just empty "suits" like their lesser servants.

 

Of course my analysis of their design is purely based on aesthetic meaning alone, I doubt any of this would have any real story related significance. If anything it just kind of serves as a way to allude to their nature a bit more, playing with their whole theme of being nothing left but an empty husk. Who knows, maybe the creators didn't think of any of this while designing them, but I think it's kind of a fun way to look at the creatures if nothing else.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

The basis of that is since Vanitas' heart is half of Ventus' it can be assumed that his body also comes from Ventus'. It's nothing confirmed, just a speculation. Beyond the whole "heart shapes the body" thing (and that has only been applied to Roxas' body and Sora's "walking heart form" so far), there hasn't been much explanation about how a body works in the KH universe. So far all we know is that supposedly it functions like ours do, only the heart actually is the source of one's being while a soul is simply their life force and the mind being a sense of self and intelligence, and that even without the heart if the soul remains within the body, the being can still exist and live as something else. The only thing that we have recently touched upon is that in some special circumstances the particular nature of the heart can influence the nature of the body it has, and that without a "proper" body the heart can create a sort of facsimile around itself, which apparently can still function like a real body (assuming that Sora, Donald, and Goofy ever took a break to eat anything while going through Castle Oblivion).

 

With all this we know that in at least those kinds of cases (with Roxas and Sora) a body could be formed around a heart if the original vessel is unavailable and said vessel's appearance can be affected by the heart within it. However, seeing as how the situation that happened with Ventus is an unusual event that is not supposed to happen normally, it's really hard to keep track of what natural mechanics or "rules" are at play here. The way I see it either Vanitas is half of everything Ventus was when he was whole: heart, body, etc, or he simply was just a heart but grew a sort of facsimile body around himself similar to how Sora's heart did before he fused with Roxas in KH2. Obviously however his body was formed it still gained the appearance of Sora once Sora's heart connected with Ven's, but the mystery still remains as to how his body actually came into existence.

 

I guess in the end it doesn't really matter since he served his purpose in that story and now Ventus is whole once again, but I guess it still kind of bugs me since now we aren't really certain as to what extent Ventus' fission came down to, just the heart or everything? If the X-Blade from that game had to be created from 2 beings of pure or equal Light and Darkness, does it matter whether one's body is real or not, or does it require the two to be on equal grounds in terms of existence? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He was made from the darkness from Ven's heart - nowhere has it been said anything more than that. So since it has not, we can only go by that he is exactly what Sora was as a walking heart or like Namine who also had a projected body. These are all special circumstances and we can only go by what info we are given. MX was never stated to have split Ven's actual body. He basically extracted the darkness out of Ven and created a being.  

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

He was made from the darkness from Ven's heart - nowhere has it been said anything more than that. So since it has not, we can only go by that he is exactly what Sora was as a walking heart or like Namine who also had a projected body. These are all special circumstances and we can only go by what info we are given. MX was never stated to have split Ven's actual body. He basically extracted the darkness out of Ven and created a being.  

But is that body necessarily the same thing as what Sora had? With all of this lore swimming around, it makes me question what is even the difference between a "projected body" and a real body, other than somebody saying "this one is real, this one isn't". Also, can we really assume that Namine has no "true body" or a projected body? I know Nomura said the circumstances with Kairi prevented Namine being born in a "typical" manner but does that necessarily mean that her form isn't real at all? I guess I just always assumed that everyone got a manifested body out of nowhere just because they became a separate being of existence but I guess now I'm not so sure anymore. All I was sure of was that her appearance may have been influenced by Kairi and Ventus while her powers came from her coming from Sora's "split". But I guess that would only account for her powers and appearance. Whether she had a heart to begin with or not is up in the air, but it could always be assumed that she would have gotten one eventually anyway. I don't know, maybe it is just a pseudo body, but that would make her even less than a normal Nobody then wouldn't it? With no body and no certain proof of a pre-existing heart she would essentially be almost less than nothing, she would literally be a shadow of somebody she once was. Guess that kind of makes her "shadow of Kairi" statement a little more clear in after-thought, though I had originally assumed that was just an allusion to her being a Nobody.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

But is that body necessarily the same thing as what Sora had? With all of this lore swimming around, it makes me question what is even the difference between a "projected body" and a real body, other than somebody saying "this one is real, this one isn't". Also, can we really assume that Namine has no "true body" or a projected body? I know Nomura said the circumstances with Kairi prevented Namine being born in a "typical" manner but does that necessarily mean that her form isn't real at all? I guess I just always assumed that everyone got a manifested body out of nowhere just because they became a separate being of existence but I guess now I'm not so sure anymore. All I was sure of was that her appearance may have been influenced by Kairi and Ventus while her powers came from her coming from Sora's "split". But I guess that would only account for her powers and appearance. Whether she had a heart to begin with or not is up in the air, but it could always be assumed that she would have gotten one eventually anyway. I don't know, maybe it is just a pseudo body, but that would make her even less than a normal Nobody then wouldn't it? With no body and no certain proof of a pre-existing heart she would essentially be almost less than nothing, she would literally be a shadow of somebody she once was. Guess that kind of makes her "shadow of Kairi" statement a little more clear in after-thought, though I had originally assumed that was just an allusion to her being a Nobody.

 

 

Sora had a makeshift body bc he needed one so yes lets compare the two. Still Namine insisted in order to properly fix Sora she needed to reunite him with his physical real body- Roxas. Namine did not have her own body so she had projected one. She was always stated to be an anomoly. Read Ansem the Wise's reports on her. Or what Nomura says which is the same. Vanitas was literally made from the darkness extracted from Ven. Try not to always make something more complicated than it has to be or overthink it. Your brain will thank you

[MasterLorX 43]

But is that body necessarily the same thing as what Sora had? With all of this lore swimming around, it makes me question what is even the difference between a "projected body" and a real body, other than somebody saying "this one is real, this one isn't". Also, can we really assume that Namine has no "true body" or a projected body? I know Nomura said the circumstances with Kairi prevented Namine being born in a "typical" manner but does that necessarily mean that her form isn't real at all? I guess I just always assumed that everyone got a manifested body out of nowhere just because they became a separate being of existence but I guess now I'm not so sure anymore. All I was sure of was that her appearance may have been influenced by Kairi and Ventus while her powers came from her coming from Sora's "split". But I guess that would only account for her powers and appearance. Whether she had a heart to begin with or not is up in the air, but it could always be assumed that she would have gotten one eventually anyway. I don't know, maybe it is just a pseudo body, but that would make her even less than a normal Nobody then wouldn't it? With no body and no certain proof of a pre-existing heart she would essentially be almost less than nothing, she would literally be a shadow of somebody she once was. Guess that kind of makes her "shadow of Kairi" statement a little more clear in after-thought, though I had originally assumed that was just an allusion to her being a Nobody.

Sora had a makeshift body bc he needed one so yes lets compare the two. Still Namine insisted in order to properly fix Sora she needed to reunite him with his physical real body- Roxas. Namine did not have her own body so she had projected one. She was always stated to be an anomoly. Read Ansem the Wise's reports on her. Or what Nomura says which is the same. Vanitas was literally made from the darkness extracted from Ven. Quit trying to always make something more complicated than it has to be or overthink it. Your brain will thank you

honestly I don't understand why you want to underline the difference between this "projected body" and the real body, to me there's little or no difference at all, if I want to create a statement to explain this situation I'd just say "in the KH universe in some particular circumstances a body is magically created for someone's heart to enter it and to let him be alive" however it is not clear what this circumstances are.also if you think about this, it is actually the heart that shapes the body, this means, for example , when Kairi restored Sora in KH1 giving him a "fake body" Sora's heart actually shapes this fake body and there's no pratical difference between his old one(Roxas body) and this new fake oneIn fact the only reason Sora had to fuse with Roxas was because of CoM events, IF CoM hadn't happened Sora could have normally continued to live his life in the fake body without the need to fuse with Roxas (with the only drawback of having half of his power) Edited March 7, 2016 by MasterLorX

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

honestly I don't understand why you want to underline the difference between this "projected body" and the real body, to me there's little or no difference at all, if I want to create a statement to explain this situation I'd just say "in the KH universe in some particular circumstances a body is magically created for someone's heart to enter it and to let him be alive" however it is not clear what this circumstances are.also if you think about this, it is actually the heart that shapes the body, this means, for example , when Kairi restored Sora in KH1 giving him a "fake body" Sora's heart actually shapes this fake body and there's no pratical difference between his old one(Roxas body) and this new fake oneIn fact the only reason Sora had to fuse with Roxas was because of CoM events, IF CoM hadn't happened Sora could have normally continued to live his life in the fake body without the need to fuse with Roxas (with the only drawback of having half of his power)

You don't know that. I still do not get why that mattered in the first place but there had to be a reason.

 

Also, the point is not whether the body is real or not or projected or not. It's where Vanitas got his body. He was literally made from the darkness extracted from Ven so I will point that out all I want.

[MasterLorX 43]

You don't know that. I still do not get why that mattered in the first place but there had to be a reason.Also, the point is not whether the body is real or not or projected or not. It's where Vanitas got his body. He was literally made from the darkness extracted from Ven so I will point that out all I want.

I'm not totally sure but if Kairi managed to live normally for a year evem if Namine was alive perhaps Sora could have coexisted with Roxas with the only "problem" of them sharing the same power (just like Xion and Roxas in days)for Vanitas "fake body" you might be right because if Sora got a new body because of Kairi's light maybe Vanitas god a brand new body because of Ven's darkness but as I said once a new body is created there's no difference between it and the original ones, so Vanitas new body is as real as Sora "fake body" and both are as real as any other person body Edited March 7, 2016 by MasterLorX

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I'm not totally sure but if Kairi managed to live normally for a year even with Namine alive perhaps Sora could have coexisted with Roxasfor Vanitas "fake body" you might be right because if Sora got a new body because of Kairi's light maybe Vanitas god a brand new body because of Ven's darkness but as I said once a new body is created there's no difference between it and the original ones, so Vanitas new body is as real as Sora "fake body" and both are as real as any other person body

 

Namine did not possess Kairi's body and soul and so is yet still different. Roxas had his body and soul..As for if there is a difference in psuedo bodies and real original bodies- I'm not arguing that. It has never been discussed the true -if any- differences. I'm just referring to where it originated.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

maybe I'm just overthinking but look at this: http://www.google.it/search?q=Kingdom+hearts+2+dusk&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-j9uria3LAhWFXiwKHaEyD9oQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=640#imgrc=bVs_vK7x-RgEDM%3Awe clearly see a zig zag mouth and the zipper around the face makes me think Dusks are SOMETHING inside a suit, and that SOMETHING is the Dusk true form, if I'm right I hope we see this in KH3that face is quite creepy btw [tension rising intensifies]

 

No I see it too, you can see it more in the Dragoon nobodies: http://m0fd.deviantart.com/art/DOWNLOAD-MMD-Newcomer-Dragoon-Nobody-282158007

There is a legit head in there, and I can't tell if thats an eye or a button it could be both cuz SE

The basis of that is since Vanitas' heart is half of Ventus' it can be assumed that his body also comes from Ventus'. It's nothing confirmed, just a speculation. Beyond the whole "heart shapes the body" thing (and that has only been applied to Roxas' body and Sora's "walking heart form" so far), there hasn't been much explanation about how a body works in the KH universe. So far all we know is that supposedly it functions like ours do, only the heart actually is the source of one's being while a soul is simply their life force and the mind being a sense of self and intelligence, and that even without the heart if the soul remains within the body, the being can still exist and live as something else. The only thing that we have recently touched upon is that in some special circumstances the particular nature of the heart can influence the nature of the body it has, and that without a "proper" body the heart can create a sort of facsimile around itself, which apparently can still function like a real body (assuming that Sora, Donald, and Goofy ever took a break to eat anything while going through Castle Oblivion).

 

With all this we know that in at least those kinds of cases (with Roxas and Sora) a body could be formed around a heart if the original vessel is unavailable and said vessel's appearance can be affected by the heart within it. However, seeing as how the situation that happened with Ventus is an unusual event that is not supposed to happen normally, it's really hard to keep track of what natural mechanics or "rules" are at play here. The way I see it either Vanitas is half of everything Ventus was when he was whole: heart, body, etc, or he simply was just a heart but grew a sort of facsimile body around himself similar to how Sora's heart did before he fused with Roxas in KH2. Obviously however his body was formed it still gained the appearance of Sora once Sora's heart connected with Ven's, but the mystery still remains as to how his body actually came into existence.

 

I guess in the end it doesn't really matter since he served his purpose in that story and now Ventus is whole once again, but I guess it still kind of bugs me since now we aren't really certain as to what extent Ventus' fission came down to, just the heart or everything? If the X-Blade from that game had to be created from 2 beings of pure or equal Light and Darkness, does it matter whether one's body is real or not, or does it require the two to be on equal grounds in terms of existence? 

 

 

 

 

Oddly enough, I'm choosing not to look into it that deeply, mostly cause it doesn't seem like the mystery of the Nobodies will be the big focus of the next game, at least as far as I can see. I think if anything the sort of shadowy form beneath is just supposed to represent how there's practically nothing left of who the Nobody once was, how they are nothing more than an empty shell, or in this case, an empty suit. If the body can be thought of as a "suit" for the heart, without the heart all that's left is the suit. With no wearer, the bodies are like empty clothes at the mercy of the wind, which might account for their bizarre movements and their stretchy and at times flat and hollow appearances. I mean think of it, there are several Nobodies that when parried and stunned either curl up into a helpless mass or even separate into separate shapes, like how a shirt and pants are separate articles of clothing. It might also double as a metaphor towards the Organization, as to how they are all clad in coats and yet are just empty remnants of the beings they used to be. Even though they appear human, in reality they are just empty "suits" like their lesser servants.

 

Of course my analysis of their design is purely based on aesthetic meaning alone, I doubt any of this would have any real story related significance. If anything it just kind of serves as a way to allude to their nature a bit more, playing with their whole theme of being nothing left but an empty husk. Who knows, maybe the creators didn't think of any of this while designing them, but I think it's kind of a fun way to look at the creatures if nothing else.

yeah well last time a game wasn't going to have anything to do with nobodies was 3D and we all know what happened.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

No I see it too, you can see it more in the Dragoon nobodies: http://m0fd.deviantart.com/art/DOWNLOAD-MMD-Newcomer-Dragoon-Nobody-282158007

There is a legit head in there, and I can't tell if thats an eye or a button it could be both cuz SE

yeah well last time a game wasn't going to have anything to do with nobodies was 3D and we all know what happened.

Hey, speculate what you will, I'm just going to stick with my aesthetic hypothesis until they actually decide to touch upon that in the future.

Sora had a makeshift body bc he needed one so yes lets compare the two. Still Namine insisted in order to properly fix Sora she needed to reunite him with his physical real body- Roxas. Namine did not have her own body so she had projected one. She was always stated to be an anomoly. Read Ansem the Wise's reports on her. Or what Nomura says which is the same. Vanitas was literally made from the darkness extracted from Ven. Try not to always make something more complicated than it has to be or overthink it. Your brain will thank you

Yes, but what is she made of then? Does she just have her own heart to go with her body, or is she literally nothing but a projected body with powers? And I typically am not satisfied with simple answers when it comes to KH, because knowing this series it's almost never that simple. At least by thinking through it this much I don't leave too much out.

 

honestly I don't understand why you want to underline the difference between this "projected body" and the real body, to me there's little or no difference at all, if I want to create a statement to explain this situation I'd just say "in the KH universe in some particular circumstances a body is magically created for someone's heart to enter it and to let him be alive" however it is not clear what this circumstances are.also if you think about this, it is actually the heart that shapes the body, this means, for example , when Kairi restored Sora in KH1 giving him a "fake body" Sora's heart actually shapes this fake body and there's no pratical difference between his old one(Roxas body) and this new fake oneIn fact the only reason Sora had to fuse with Roxas was because of CoM events, IF CoM hadn't happened Sora could have normally continued to live his life in the fake body without the need to fuse with Roxas (with the only drawback of having half of his power)

Pretty sure having only half of his power would have meant that he would eventually have to confront Roxas anyway, it would have only been a matter of time until they learned of each other.

So what, in the KH universe the Heart can just keep on making new bodies for itself as much as it wants? How does anybody die in this universe?

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Hey, speculate what you will, I'm just going to stick with my aesthetic hypothesis until they actually decide to touch upon that in the future.

Yes, but what is she made of then? Does she just have her own heart to go with her body, or is she literally nothing but a projected body with powers? And I typically am not satisfied with simple answers when it comes to KH, because knowing this series it's almost never that simple. At least by thinking through it this much I don't leave too much out.

 

Pretty sure having only half of his power would have meant that he would eventually have to confront Roxas anyway, it would have only been a matter of time until they learned of each other.

So what, in the KH universe the Heart can just keep on making new bodies for itself as much as it wants? How does anybody die in this universe?

 

The same thing Sora's psuedo body was made of when he was a walking heart from the end of KH1 to Kh2 when he reunited with Roxas   Nomura logic.