Ok, I have two questions.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

the first one: Is Vanitus a heartless

and depending on the answer i get for the first i'll have my answer for the second.

 

so Van is all of Ven's darkness right and he was made similar to how heartless are made, so shouldn't that make him a heartless.

[AzureAce 544]

Vanitas is not a Heartless. Vanitas is the physical manifestation of Ventus' negative emotions and Darkness, if he were to be classified as any enemy type, it would be an Unversed more than anything.

Edited March 6, 2016 by AzureAce

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I would classify him as a special being ( closer to unversed) or a different category more than a heartless per se. Ven did not lose his heart to darkness like how other heartless are made. Xehanort created Vanitas by splitting him ( Ven) basically.

[TheKingdomkid 1,194]

Van isn't a Heartless, as the others have pointed out he is the Darkness from Ven's heart.  As we saw at the beginning of Birth by Sleep we saw that Ven's heart was damaged and was incomplete until baby Sora showed up and helped him 

[corfidbizna 53]

When Ventus was split in half by Xehanort, Ven retained his body and the light half of his heart, whereas Vanitas retained the will and the dark half of the heart. According to the novel, Vanitas' physical appearance was that of a Heartless with red eyes, until Sora shared his existence with the two of them. Ventus obtained a template for his missing 'will', hence him acting like Sora, and Vanitas obtained Sora's appearance. When he was freshly created, his existence much more greatly resembled that of a Heartless (sort of like Ansem the Heartless in KH1) but, as the other's have been saying, he became more-or-less in his own category after Sora helped further Xehanort's plans.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

No he's not a Heartless. He is literally just half of Ventus. Ven and Vanitas' heart, as a complete Ventus, were split in half by Xehanort. Ventus didn't loose his heart because he still had half of it remaining, the other half was allowed to manifest itself as it's own person. Since the part that Xehanort removed was the part that contained all of Ven's Darkness, Vanitas was manifested as a human with a heart of pure Darkness, while Ventus is left with nothing but the remainder of his heart, which has nothing left but Light, thereby making him a human with a heart of pure Light by default.

 

A Heartless is formed either when a person is consumed by the Darkness in their heart and transforms into a Heartless or when a Heartless steals a persons' heart causing them to transform into a Heartless. It's literally the only ways, unless Nomura adds another one later, either your Darkness turns you into one or a Heartless forcibly steals your heart.

 

The difference here is that Ven's heart wasn't taken by the Heartless. In fact, he didn't even completely loose his heart, he only lost part of it. He became half of what he was. I understand it's confusing what with the whole Heartless and Nobody already being two halves of what remains of a person sort of thing, but the crucial difference here is in the nature of the heart. No matter which method of Heartless transformation occurs, it requires the heart to remain whole in the first place, and it also requires either the Darkness of the person's heart consuming them or the Heartless being involved, no third party. Xehanort is not a Heartless, so even if he completely removed Ven's whole heart from his body he would not have the power to turn him into a Heartless, only the Heartless can do that, and they clearly didn't steal Ven's heart beforehand.

 

The Heartless and Nobodies' existence rely on the fact that the human they came from "disappeared" when their whole heart was done away with by either the Darkness or the Heartless, they are a post-humus sort of split of a person. With the split between Vanitas and Ventus, they are still human beings, they are just two halves of one forcibly split apart, not given the chance to turn into a Heartless and therefore no Nobody. Nobody turns into a Heartless because they both still technically have hearts of their own, they are just polar opposites now. Their split allows them to exist without "disappearing". As far as things like their hearts, the Darkness, and the Heartless are concerned, they are both separate "complete" beings. The only thing that cares about their split nature is the X-Blade, as the nature of their existence allows for their reunion to become a conduit to create a faux X-Blade.

 

Vanitas may have a heart of pure Darkness, but that does not make him a Heartless. He is still human, the main difference is that while a human can turn into a Heartless by the dark half of their heart becoming too powerful, Vanitas' heart is ALL Darkness. He can't be "consumed" by his own Darkness because it is literally all he is already. It'd be like trying to add more black paint to an already black canvas. He may share some rather "Heartless-y" features with the yellow eyes, black hair, and affinity for black and red colors, but that's just more of a design choice. The only noteworthy thing about his Darkness is that through it he is able to create Unversed. My best guess as to how this works is that while Vanitas is a human being still, his heart is still made up of nothing but Darkness. Since Darkness tends to favor more negative emotions to grow stronger within a person, it's likely that an unhindered dark heart is powerful enough to manifest those negative emotions into shadowy physical creatures such as the Unversed. They are not pure beings born of the Great Darkness like the Heartless, but they are quite literally negative beings given life through Darkness. It's hard to say whether Ventus would be able to have any similar kind of ability as a being of pure Light, but seeing as how the nature of the split seemed to favor Vanitas a lot more than poor Ven, I think it's safe to say that only Vanitas was granted that kind of power.

 

So in short, neither Ventus or Vanitas have technically lost their whole hearts or whole bodies in order to become Heartless or Nobodies, so they are both still human, just two halves of a human. As far as the realms of Light and Darkness are concerned the person that exists is still alive, the heart that makes that person up is just moving around in two different directions at the same time.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

Vanitas is not a Heartless. Vanitas is the physical manifestation of Ventus' negative emotions and Darkness, if he were to be classified as any enemy type, it would be an Unversed more than anything.

 

 

I would classify him as a special being ( closer to unversed) or a different category more than a heartless per se. Ven did not lose his heart to darkness like how other heartless are made. Xehanort created Vanitas by splitting him ( Ven) basically.

 

 

Van isn't a Heartless, as the others have pointed out he is the Darkness from Ven's heart.  As we saw at the beginning of Birth by Sleep we saw that Ven's heart was damaged and was incomplete until baby Sora showed up and helped him 

 

 

When Ventus was split in half by Xehanort, Ven retained his body and the light half of his heart, whereas Vanitas retained the will and the dark half of the heart. According to the novel, Vanitas' physical appearance was that of a Heartless with red eyes, until Sora shared his existence with the two of them. Ventus obtained a template for his missing 'will', hence him acting like Sora, and Vanitas obtained Sora's appearance. When he was freshly created, his existence much more greatly resembled that of a Heartless (sort of like Ansem the Heartless in KH1) but, as the other's have been saying, he became more-or-less in his own category after Sora helped further Xehanort's plans.

 

 

No he's not a Heartless. He is literally just half of Ventus. Ven and Vanitas' heart, as a complete Ventus, were split in half by Xehanort. Ventus didn't loose his heart because he still had half of it remaining, the other half was allowed to manifest itself as it's own person. Since the part that Xehanort removed was the part that contained all of Ven's Darkness, Vanitas was manifested as a human with a heart of pure Darkness, while Ventus is left with nothing but the remainder of his heart, which has nothing left but Light, thereby making him a human with a heart of pure Light by default.

 

A Heartless is formed either when a person is consumed by the Darkness in their heart and transforms into a Heartless or when a Heartless steals a persons' heart causing them to transform into a Heartless. It's literally the only ways, unless Nomura adds another one later, either your Darkness turns you into one or a Heartless forcibly steals your heart.

 

The difference here is that Ven's heart wasn't taken by the Heartless. In fact, he didn't even completely loose his heart, he only lost part of it. He became half of what he was. I understand it's confusing what with the whole Heartless and Nobody already being two halves of what remains of a person sort of thing, but the crucial difference here is in the nature of the heart. No matter which method of Heartless transformation occurs, it requires the heart to remain whole in the first place, and it also requires either the Darkness of the person's heart consuming them or the Heartless being involved, no third party. Xehanort is not a Heartless, so even if he completely removed Ven's whole heart from his body he would not have the power to turn him into a Heartless, only the Heartless can do that, and they clearly didn't steal Ven's heart beforehand.

 

The Heartless and Nobodies' existence rely on the fact that the human they came from "disappeared" when their whole heart was done away with by either the Darkness or the Heartless, they are a post-humus sort of split of a person. With the split between Vanitas and Ventus, they are still human beings, they are just two halves of one forcibly split apart, not given the chance to turn into a Heartless and therefore no Nobody. Nobody turns into a Heartless because they both still technically have hearts of their own, they are just polar opposites now. Their split allows them to exist without "disappearing". As far as things like their hearts, the Darkness, and the Heartless are concerned, they are both separate "complete" beings. The only thing that cares about their split nature is the X-Blade, as the nature of their existence allows for their reunion to become a conduit to create a faux X-Blade.

 

Vanitas may have a heart of pure Darkness, but that does not make him a Heartless. He is still human, the main difference is that while a human can turn into a Heartless by the dark half of their heart becoming too powerful, Vanitas' heart is ALL Darkness. He can't be "consumed" by his own Darkness because it is literally all he is already. It'd be like trying to add more black paint to an already black canvas. He may share some rather "Heartless-y" features with the yellow eyes, black hair, and affinity for black and red colors, but that's just more of a design choice. The only noteworthy thing about his Darkness is that through it he is able to create Unversed. My best guess as to how this works is that while Vanitas is a human being still, his heart is still made up of nothing but Darkness. Since Darkness tends to favor more negative emotions to grow stronger within a person, it's likely that an unhindered dark heart is powerful enough to manifest those negative emotions into shadowy physical creatures such as the Unversed. They are not pure beings born of the Great Darkness like the Heartless, but they are quite literally negative beings given life through Darkness. It's hard to say whether Ventus would be able to have any similar kind of ability as a being of pure Light, but seeing as how the nature of the split seemed to favor Vanitas a lot more than poor Ven, I think it's safe to say that only Vanitas was granted that kind of power.

 

So in short, neither Ventus or Vanitas have technically lost their whole hearts or whole bodies in order to become Heartless or Nobodies, so they are both still human, just two halves of a human. As far as the realms of Light and Darkness are concerned the person that exists is still alive, the heart that makes that person up is just moving around in two different directions at the same time.

So my original thought was right, Vanitus has half of ven's body... I was thinking that he would be on the lines of how Ansem is. But that didn't give me the answer to my second question which is: Could strong heartless wield keyblades? I thought of this because of X update, the new heartless came out of the Lanes between (I cant remember if that was the official name or not) and only users of the keyblade can open them. I would have said yes because of sora's heartless in KH and Re:coded but those might have been fake keyblades.

[AzureAce 544]

So my original thought was right, Vanitus has half of ven's body... I was thinking that he would be on the lines of how Ansem is. But that didn't give me the answer to my second question which is: Could strong heartless wield keyblades? I thought of this because of X update, the new heartless came out of the Lanes between (I cant remember if that was the official name or not) and only users of the keyblade can open them. I would have said yes because of sora's heartless in KH and Re:coded but those might have been fake keyblades.

The Heartless in Chi were ex-Keyblade wielders, but that doesn't mean that they can wield a Keyblade.

 

On the subject of Ventus and Vanitas; Vanitas is essentially the same concept as a Nobody, he is half of what Ventus is, until Kid Sora stepped in and mended the other half of his heart with his own. Vanitas is essentially his own being now, because after Ventus started his slumber in Castle Oblivion, his heart resided within Sora, so that it could mend itself and repair itself to work without the dark half of his self in Vanitas. Flaming Lea might need to double check to see if I'm right because I'm about 95% I am.

 

And finally on the subject of Sora's Heartless. That wasn't actually Sora's Heartless, it was a fake Pureblood Heartless made by Riku. Sora's REAL Heartless version is the Shadow that we see him turn into during KHI.

[MasterLorX 43]

So my original thought was right, Vanitus has half of ven's body... I was thinking that he would be on the lines of how Ansem is. But that didn't give me the answer to my second question which is: Could strong heartless wield keyblades? I thought of this because of X update, the new heartless came out of the Lanes between (I cant remember if that was the official name or not) and only users of the keyblade can open them. I would have said yes because of sora's heartless in KH and Re:coded but those might have been fake keyblades.

keyblade are linked to hearts, you need to have a heart to weild a keyblade, heartless and nobodies(not 100% sure about this one) don't have hearts so they can't

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

The Heartless in Chi were ex-Keyblade wielders, but that doesn't mean that they can wield a Keyblade.

 

On the subject of Ventus and Vanitas; Vanitas is essentially the same concept as a Nobody, he is half of what Ventus is, until Kid Sora stepped in and mended the other half of his heart with his own. Vanitas is essentially his own being now, because after Ventus started his slumber in Castle Oblivion, his heart resided within Sora, so that it could mend itself and repair itself to work without the dark half of his self in Vanitas. Flaming Lea might need to double check to see if I'm right because I'm about 95% I am.

 

And finally on the subject of Sora's Heartless. That wasn't actually Sora's Heartless, it was a fake Pureblood Heartless made by Riku. Sora's REAL Heartless version is the Shadow that we see him turn into during KHI.

 

Yes yes you are correct Sora mended the broken half of Ven's heart and restored him both times. We have seen recent evidence of his heart starting to awaken too- both with Roxas awakening Ven's keyblade after Xion's death in Days and Ven's heart trying to help Sora in DDD. I don't know if i would classify Vanitas as a nobody. He's a special category on his own and his creation different than that process.

 

 

 Also to add to the Sora's heartless comment, during Riku's confrontation with Ansem SOD he pointed out becoming a heartless cost him his keyblade. Furthermore, when Sora was restored by Kairi he went from a shadow heartless to a walking heart- the darkness purified from his heart- enabling him to use his keyblade. Notice Antiform is the one form where you lose the keyblade and is the result of Sora losing his heart ( becoming a heartless) in the first place.

[AzureAce 544]

 I don't know if i would classify Vanitas as a nobody. He's a special category on his own and his creation different than that process.

I wasn't really classifying him as one, I was just kinda saying that the situation of Ventus and Vanitas is kind of similar to the process of a Nobody in that a Nobody is half of a person. Vanitas is half of Ventus. Kinda get the gist of what I'm meaning? I'm not saying he is a Nobody, I'm just saying that the process of Vanitas' existence is similar.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

The Heartless in Chi were ex-Keyblade wielders, but that doesn't mean that they can wield a Keyblade.

 

On the subject of Ventus and Vanitas; Vanitas is essentially the same concept as a Nobody, he is half of what Ventus is, until Kid Sora stepped in and mended the other half of his heart with his own. Vanitas is essentially his own being now, because after Ventus started his slumber in Castle Oblivion, his heart resided within Sora, so that it could mend itself and repair itself to work without the dark half of his self in Vanitas. Flaming Lea might need to double check to see if I'm right because I'm about 95% I am.

 

And finally on the subject of Sora's Heartless. That wasn't actually Sora's Heartless, it was a fake Pureblood Heartless made by Riku. Sora's REAL Heartless version is the Shadow that we see him turn into during KHI.

 

i know that but to open the lane you need to use a keyblade.

Yes yes you are correct Sora mended the broken half of Ven's heart and restored him both times. We have seen recent evidence of his heart starting to awaken too- both with Roxas awakening Ven's keyblade after Xion's death in Days and Ven's heart trying to help Sora in DDD. I don't know if i would classify Vanitas as a nobody. He's a special category on his own and his creation different than that process.

 

 

 Also to add to the Sora's heartless comment, during Riku's confrontation with Ansem SOD he pointed out becoming a heartless cost him his keyblade. Furthermore, when Sora was restored by Kairi he went from a shadow heartless to a walking heart- the darkness purified from his heart- enabling him to use his keyblade. Notice Antiform is the one form where you lose the keyblade and is the result of Sora losing his heart ( becoming a heartless) in the first place.

Then what was the deal with Shadow Sora in KH, in Re:coded I could see it just being code and he could just hack one in but why did the heartless in KH have one?

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I wasn't really classifying him as one, I was just kinda saying that the situation of Ventus and Vanitas is kind of similar to the process of a Nobody in that a Nobody is half of a person. Vanitas is half of Ventus. Kinda get the gist of what I'm meaning? I'm not saying he is a Nobody, I'm just saying that the process of Vanitas' existence is similar.

 

yes I get what you are trying to say but I am saying I am clarifying why I think that's confusing to compare it too

i know that but to open the lane you need to use a keyblade.

Then what was the deal with Shadow Sora in KH, in Re:coded I could see it just being code and he could just hack one in but why did the heartless in KH have one?

 

That was a creation of Riku and not Sora's real heartless.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

yes I get what you are trying to say but I am saying I am clarifying why I think that's confusing to compare it too

 

That was a creation of Riku and not Sora's real heartless

???

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

???

 

You are talking about the creation Riku sent to attack Sora right? If not and you are talking about Sora as a walking heart I will repeat my answer from above:

 

Also to add to the Sora's heartless comment, during Riku's confrontation with Ansem SOD he pointed out becoming a heartless cost him his keyblade. Furthermore, when Sora was restored by Kairi he went from a shadow heartless to a walking heart- the darkness purified - enabling him to use his keyblade. Notice Antiform is the one form where you lose the keyblade and is the result of Sora losing his heart ( becoming a heartless) in the first place.

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

You are talking about the creation Riku sent to attack Sora right?

Yeah, but I thought he just summoned a pureblood like everyone has before, why is it a creation?

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Yeah, but I thought he just summoned a pureblood like everyone has before, why is it a creation?

 

Riku gave it form and used it to distract and attack Sora but it wasn't Sora's real heartless or anything like that - that's the best way i can describe it lol

[MasterLorX 43]

Yeah, but I thought he just summoned a pureblood like everyone has before, why is it a creation?

it is a pureblood heartless made of pure darkness, riku summoned the darkness and gave it Sora's shape and apparently he also gave it a "mind"

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

Riku gave it form and used it to distract and attack Sora but it wasn't Sora's real heartless or anything like that - that's the best way i can describe it lol

ahh ok....? So heartless lose the ability to wield the keyblade, got it. So I officially don't know what to think about the Black Costume heartless in X anymore other than they were keyblade wielders.

it is a pureblood heartless made of pure darkness, riku summoned the darkness and gave it Sora's shape and apparently he also gave it a "mind"

apparently not

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

ahh ok....? So heartless lose the ability to wield the keyblade, got it. So I officially don't know what to think about the Black Costume heartless in X anymore other than they were keyblade wielders.

apparently not

 

 

No I'm saying it was not Sora's real heartless. Basically Riku gave it form and made it Sora's complete copy- the keyblade including. It wasn't a real Sora or his keyblade. It was purposely designed to copy Sora completely but it started from a pureblood. Am I explaining this clearly now? lol

[MasterLorX 43]

apparently not

in the journal his entry is in then 'heartless' section, and if you think about it a heartless isn't necessary the heartless of someone, in some conditions heartless can born from pure darkness, like in the RoD.riku in KH1 had the ability to summon and create heartless that's all

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

in the journal his entry is in then 'heartless' section, and if you think about it a heartless isn't necessary the heartless of someone, in some conditions heartless can born from pure darkness, like in the RoD.riku in KH1 had the ability to summon and create heartless that's all

 

I think he's misunderstanding me. I was trying to tell him that was not Sora's real heartless but a copy designed by Riku. Thus keyblade is a copy and not real.

[MasterLorX 43]

 

hey Flaming Lea, I was thinking something about Vanitas, when Ven's heart was splitted Ven went in a coma and was saved by Sora, but why Vanitas didn't have the same problem, even his heart was incomplete how was he able to survive with his fragmented heart if his other half, Ventus was not? Edited March 6, 2016 by MasterLorX

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

I think he's misunderstanding me. I was trying to tell him that was not Sora's real heartless but a copy designed by Riku. Thus keyblade is a copy and not real.

 

in the journal his entry is in then 'heartless' section, and if you think about it a heartless isn't necessary the heartless of someone, in some conditions heartless can born from pure darkness, like in the RoD.riku in KH1 had the ability to summon and create heartless that's all

If I'm understanding correctly its a real heartless, but its also a copy?

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

hey Flaming Lea, I was thinking something about Vanitas, when Ven's heart was splitted Ven went in a coma and was saved by Sora, but why Vanitas didn't have the same problem, even his heart was incomplete how was he able to survive with his fragmented heart if his other half, Ventus was not?

 

This should answer your question:

 

Xehanort Report 10As was to be expected, Ventus lacked the constitution for such an ordeal. I was able to remove the darkness inside him and create Vanitas, a heart of pure darkness, but Ventus drifted into the clutches of sleep.

Ventus’s heart of pure light and Vanitas’s heart of pure darkness… If both could be made strong enough to one day clash, I knew the χ-blade would be forged.

But Vanitas took too much of Ventus’s heart, and from that fracture, I could see the last of Ventus’s light was slipping away. The boy deserved a place to spend his final moments peacefully. And what should come to mind but my own boyhood home.

My legs took me there unbidden, and as I stood there on the same beach where I had made my choice so many years ago, I thought: not a single thing has changed. Here, in this quiet world, time marches in place. Content that Ventus would find peace here, I started to walk away—but just then, the boy held up his Keyblade. The light within him had not died.

—

Xehanort Report 11Ventus and Vanitas were not matched in power; I could not train them together, or Vanitas’s darkness would gnaw away what little Ventus had left.

Of course, since I needed a place where boy’s light might flourish, the answer was obvious: Eraqus, and his absolutes.

Considering how we had parted ways, I expected friction—but if anything, Eraqus seemed delighted to see me again. He readily agreed to take care of Ventus. Now I need only wait for the boy’s heart to get stronger.

I had not visited this second home of mine for some time, and discovered Eraqus had already found two pupils of his own. Within one of them, Terra, I sensed something. The boy, though well-intentioned, seeks power single-mindedly. And that kind of hunger is a seedbed for darkness.

I had found my vessel.

—

If I'm understanding correctly its a real heartless, but its also a copy?

 

Yes indeed  You got it now.