Smartest Version of Sora?

[KH4Real 749]

Please tell me the two votes for DDD are a joke...

He is so smart that he want to keep dreaming .

Vote nr3 .

[Gwynbleidd 551]

"Pick number three, m'lord!"

KH2, without a doubt.

[Felicia Novita 419]

In my opinion, KH II.

[Niko Collins 83]

I don't think there's any true moment where Sora is smart. However, in Kingdom Hearts 2 is where Sora showed that he wasn't as stupid as most assume...at least in my opinion.

[King_Graham 135]

KH1, but he didn't exhibit much personality and he was very determined to get his bffs back. Similar with COM.

 

KH2 and DDD Sora is very ditzy, but not completely naive and he has much more personality.

[Shadow Broker 65]

KH2 he was older and became a little mature

[clatter411 75]

While KH2 Sora is definitely more mature, I'd say they actually dumbed him down in the second game. He doesn't understand computers or the concept of homework and there are times where he really doesn't grasp the specifics of the situation. Not to say that's a bad thing. Sora is sort of the Happy-Go-Lucky idiot with the heart of gold. That's one of the great things about him. We already have Riku to be the smart analyzing one anyway. But they really didn't fully establish this until KH2. Before in KH1 he always understood the situation after it was explained and never really had any trouble with anything except understanding the phonetics of gorillas.

[Firaga 5,947]

While KH2 Sora is definitely more mature, I'd say they actually dumbed him down in the second game. He doesn't understand computers or the concept of homework and there are times where he really doesn't grasp the specifics of the situation. Not to say that's a bad thing. Sora is sort of the Happy-Go-Lucky idiot with the heart of gold. That's one of the great things about him. We already have Riku to be the smart analyzing one anyway. But they really didn't fully establish this until KH2. Before in KH1 he always understood the situation after it was explained and never really had any trouble with anything except understanding the phonetics of gorillas.

 

Just because he doesn't know about computers or homework doesn't mean he's stupid. He lives on a world completely inhabited by islands, they probably don't even use that much tech in the first place. And in the context of when Olette asked him about homework, he didn't respond in a manner which suggested that he didn't know what homework was, just that he was given the same homework assignment as the three Twilight Town kids were, which he obviously wasn't.

 

Also, what trouble does Sora have with things in KH2? The most he does is things like understanding the heart and junk but that's part of emphasizing themes so it doesn't count.

[clatter411 75]

Just because he doesn't know about computers or homework doesn't mean he's stupid. He lives on a world completely inhabited by islands, they probably don't even use that much tech in the first place. And in the context of when Olette asked him about homework, he didn't respond in a manner which suggested that he didn't know what homework was, just that he was given the same homework assignment as the three Twilight Town kids were, which he obviously wasn't. Also, what trouble does Sora have with things in KH2? The most he does is things like understanding the heart and junk but that's part of emphasizing themes so it doesn't count.

While yes you can make an argument for the lack of computer knowledge, I have to disagree with you about the homework since it could be taken either way and from my perspective his tone and expression seemed to indicate a lack of knowledge as to what homework was. I'm not exactly sure why understanding themes or plot points doesn't count, since they are essentially at the heart of the story and are the most important to understand. And while he doesn't have any trouble understanding he core themes and plot points and KH1 and Re:Com, he seems to struggle with it a lot more in KH2 and DDD. Like I said, I don't think Sora is supposed to be a smart character. He follows his gut instincts and trusts that he knows what he's doing is right. He's the cheerful lovable idiot. His strengths are in making friends, his inate kindness, and his ability to always know what's right even if he can't grasp the specifics of the situation. Who knows, maybe that will change in KH3, but from what I saw in KH2 and DDD that seems to be what they're going for.

[Firaga 5,947]

I'm not exactly sure why understanding themes or plot points doesn't count, since they are essentially at the heart of the story and are the most important to understand. And while he doesn't have any trouble understanding he core themes and plot points and KH1 and Re:Com, he seems to struggle with it a lot more in KH2 and DDD.

 

Because it shouldn't be looked at as a bad thing. Characters are supposed to struggle with things like that, it's what helps them develop. Sora wasn't like that in KH1, he was a boring slab of a human being who served more as an avatar for the player more than anything else, and anything he did learn was just regurgitating the plot's themes like he was reading them off a script rather than showing that he valued the themes himself. 

[clatter411 75]

Because it shouldn't be looked at as a bad thing. Characters are supposed to struggle with things like that, it's what helps them develop. Sora wasn't like that in KH1, he was a boring slab of a human being who served more as an avatar for the player more than anything else, and anything he did learn was just regurgitating the plot's themes like he was reading them off a script rather than showing that he valued the themes himself. 

 

If this was true, then every character should have a hard time understanding plot points. But no one else has this problem except for Sora. So unless every other character is a useless slab of an avatar, this line of thinking doesn't really make sense. I wouldn't call anything that Sora said in KH1 as regurgitating themes. Sure, some of his lines are cheesy but that is just something that tends to happen in works done by Disney. It's something very commonly seen in their works and I think it's endearing. I'm not trying to say Sora was less of a character in KH2 or DDD, I just think they shifted the direction they wanted to go in with the character. I wouldn't even call Sora dumb but more simple minded. He just doesn't bother trying to comprehend all of these difficult concepts and instead just goes with his gut reaction.

[Firaga 5,947]

If this was true, then every character should have a hard time understanding plot points. But no one else has this problem except for Sora. So unless every other character is a useless slab of an avatar, this line of thinking doesn't really make sense. I wouldn't call anything that Sora said in KH1 as regurgitating themes. Sure, some of his lines are cheesy but that is just something that tends to happen in works done by Disney. It's something very commonly seen in their works and I think it's endearing. I'm not trying to say Sora was less of a character in KH2 or DDD, I just think they shifted the direction they wanted to go in with the character. I wouldn't even call Sora dumb but more simple minded. He just doesn't bother trying to comprehend all of these difficult concepts and instead just goes with his gut reaction.

 

I didn't say "understanding plot points", I said "struggle" in a general sense, as in struggling with issues brought on upon the plot. It has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with characterization. KH1 Sora felt like he wasn't experiencing everything around him, he was just strung along for the ride until he had to give a speech about why the story we're experiencing is important. And yeah, he does that in other games too, but at least it happens when the themes and messages have more impact on him as a whole. It feels like he's actually experiencing some kind of struggle. COM was pretty much nothing but struggle for him, and he in fact does struggle as well in KH2, possibly even more so. KH1, not so much. Other than what happens with Riku and Kairi, he gets along just fine. He even loses his heart and gets it right back.

[clatter411 75]

I'm lost on your point then. He struggled a bunch in KH1. The whole point of the game is that his home is destroyed and his friends on gone. He has to come to terms with Riku diving deeper into the darkness, saving Kairi, and the fact that he's had this fate thrust upon him. There is definitely a struggle, but it's a balancing act. We are told at the beginning of the game that Sora and his friends want to explore other worlds, and so Sora is shown many times to be happy, not because he isn't necessarily struggling but because he's also fulfilling a dream. This is shown more at the beginning of the game because he assumes his friends are alright but once Riku shows up and starts moving toward darkness, Sora definitely starts to struggle, though he doesn't lose his optimism.

 

But all of this is besides the point. Whether or not he struggles or not has nothing to do with how intelligent he is in either game. There's no correlation between the two at all.

[Firaga 5,947]

I'm lost on your point then. He struggled a bunch in KH1. The whole point of the game is that his home is destroyed and his friends on gone. He has to come to terms with Riku diving deeper into the darkness, saving Kairi, and the fact that he's had this fate thrust upon him. There is definitely a struggle, but it's a balancing act. We are told at the beginning of the game that Sora and his friends want to explore other worlds, and so Sora is shown many times to be happy, not because he isn't necessarily struggling but because he's also fulfilling a dream. This is shown more at the beginning of the game because he assumes his friends are alright but once Riku shows up and starts moving toward darkness, Sora definitely starts to struggle, though he doesn't lose his optimism.But all of this is besides the point. Whether or not he struggles or not has nothing to do with how intelligent he is in either game. There's no correlation between the two at all.

 

He didn't come to terms with Riku, he flat out told him that he was wrong. He saved Kairi just fine in the end even though they got separated, and he didn't have a problem with holding the Keyblade. There's no actual internal struggle with him, it's all just thrust at him and left for us to configure because, again, he's partially an avatar. One minute he's enjoying himself, and the next he's all depressed too. It's all inconsistent and vague. That is the point I am trying to make. You can say that he struggled based on his actions alone, but if he doesn't actually show any clear indication that a personal catharsis is being reached within him, then it's not really there in the first place. And being optimistic isn't the same as being ignorant.

 

And it does have to with intelligence because a smart person is able to perceive these things better than those who are not. Sora was smarter in KHII because he grasped the situations at hand with a lot more maturity and understanding, such as when Saix told him he was basically helping the Organization by continuing to fight Heartless, or when he tried reasoning with Xemnas about the nature of the Heart. KH1 Sora wouldn't have the depth to do things like that even if he tried. He barely understand anything about the heart other than "light is good, and dark is bad" which has obviously become an outdate concept in the universe of KH.

 

And to address an earlier point: no, he obviously knows what homework is because there's a damn school on Destiny Islands. And he looked to Donald and Goofy for an answer and unless Disney Town is filled with a bunch of village idiots, they know what school and homework are too.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Firaga Sensei

[KingdomHearts3 2,591]

Smartest? Uh, I think that he has always been the same throughout the series until the end of KH3D when he became more mature.

[Caity 3,946]

I have made a beautifully accurate diagram here:

 

[Dio Brando 5,810]

The first game..............afterwards he's a complete moron especially in the last bits of KH2.........and don't get me started on him in DDD

 

In KH2,even though he recognizes the name Roxas he instantly forgets it when Xigbar,Luxord and Saix call him by that name:

 

"Roxas?Did he just say Roxas"

 

"Who's Roxas?"

 

"My nobody?But I never turned into a heartle....oh,you're right"

 

 

YOU JUST RECOGNIZED THE NAME FEW HOURS AGO....AND HOW DO YOU FORGET SOMETHING AS HUGE AS BECOMING A HEARTLESS EVEN AFTER RECOVERING YOUR MEMORIES

[Firaga 5,947]

"Roxas?Did he just say Roxas"

 

"Who's Roxas?"

 

"My nobody?But I never turned into a heartle....oh,you're right"

 

 

YOU JUST RECOGNIZED THE NAME FEW HOURS AGO....AND HOW DO YOU FORGET SOMETHING AS HUGE AS BECOMING A HEARTLESS EVEN AFTER RECOVERING YOUR MEMORIES

 

You took that line way out of context.

 

He wasn't asking what the name Roxas was, he was asking why he's been hearing that name for so long and who that person is, because at that point nobody was telling him anything about him until Riku informed him of everything.

 

Also, forgetting one tiny detail in his first adventure? One that doesn't really matter in the context of things considering he was only a Heartless for so long? Yeah sure man, he's totally braindead. I mean, I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, so I must need some mental help or something. Let's also just flush all of his actual maturity and character development that he gained in this game just based on this one dialogue as well.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Firaga Sensei

[Dio Brando 5,810]

You took that line way out of context.

 

He wasn't asking what the name Roxas was, he was asking why he's been hearing that name for so long and who that person is, because at that point nobody was telling him anything about him until Riku informed him of everything.

 

Also, forgetting one tiny detail in his first adventure? One that doesn't really matter in the context of things considering he was only a Heartless for so long? Yeah sure man, he's totally braindead. I mean, I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, so I must need some mental help or something. Let's also just flush all of his actual maturity and character development that he gained in this game just based on this one dialogue as well.

OneNot only he clearly saw an image of Roxas destroying the computer in the fake Twilight Town(remember that scene) and not only did he see his photo,fought him and saw his face so why the firetruck does he not recognize Roxas when he saw him like.....three times....and I must repeat HE HAS PHOTO OF HIM TO BOOT WHERE HE IDENTIFIED HIM AS ROXAS

 

TwoSmall detail?SACRIFICING YOURSELF TO SAVE SOMEONE IS A SMALL DETAIL?I'm sure as firetruck won't forget putting my life on the line and even if it's Castle Oblivion he rememebers it because Namine put his memory back again

 

Oh yeah forgetting that I got stabbed in the chest(by myself nonetheless) to save my girlfriend is such a trivial detail I'd forget it next sunday

 

Maturity?Development?He was more mature in the first game than he was here and the only development he got was in raw power not in character.The only real simplence of character development Sora had was near the end of his part in DDD and even that was undermined compared to Riku who had a substantial character development throughout the series

Edited May 31, 2016 by Felixx

[Firaga 5,947]

OneNot only he clearly saw an image of Roxas destroying the computer in the fake Twilight Town(remember that scene) and not only did he see his photo,fought him and saw his face so why the firetruck does he not recognize Roxas when he saw him like.....three times....and I must repeat HE HAS PHOTO OF HIM TO BOOT WHERE HE IDENTIFIED HIM AS ROXAS

 

He asked Riku "Why is everybody calling him Roxas" in the sense that the Organization are confusing him for some other guy, not that he doesn't know who Roxas is, because as you pointed out, he's heard the name before and is familiar with who he is. He's just not aware of what his connection to Roxas is at that point, which Riku then explains to him.

 

TwoSmall detail?SACRIFICING YOURSELF TO SAVE SOMEONE IS A SMALL DETAIL?I'm sure as firetruck won't forget putting my life on the line and even if it's Castle Oblivion he rememebers it because Namine put his memory back again

 

Oh yeah forgetting that I got stabbed in the chest(by myself nonetheless) to save my girlfriend is such a trivial detail I'd forget it next sunday.

 

You're really making this a bigger deal of this than it needs to be. He was a Heartless and then he wasn't, it had to have lasted at least in the span of five minutes in real time. And it's not like he forgot the impact of what that sacrifice did for Kairi either, it was more along the lines of "Oh yeah, since I had a Heartless, that means I have a Nobody too because I know that now". It's just acknowledgement of new information and nothing less.

 

Maturity?Development?He was more mature in the first game than he was here and the only development he got was in raw power not in character.The only real simplence of character development Sora had was near the end of his part in DDD and even that was undermined compared to Riku who had a substantial character development throughout the series.

 

I have no idea what you qualify as character development, but looking at everything that goes on with Sora in the span of Chain of Memories and KHII alone, both games in which his optimism is challenged, where he shows more sides of him than just the happy-go lucky kid we were introduced to, where he shows himself as one that is able to struggle with internal conflict, one that can settle that internal conflict with a renewed sense of optimism that is filled with more layers of understanding, and overall, he builds himself as one that is able to see all sides of the spectrum other than "good is good and bad is bad".

Edited May 31, 2016 by Felixx

[Dio Brando 5,810]

He asked Riku "Why is everybody calling him Roxas" in the sense that the Organization are confusing him for some other guy, not that he doesn't know who Roxas is, because as you pointed out, he's heard the name before and is familiar with who he is. He's just not aware of what his connection to Roxas is at that point, which Riku then explains to him.

 

 

You're really making this a bigger deal of this than it needs to be. He was a Heartless and then he wasn't, it lasted in the span of at least five minutes in real time. And it's not like he forgot the impact of what that sacrifice did for Kairi either, it was more along the lines of "Oh yeah, since I had a Heartless, that means I have a Nobody too". It's certainly not something to hold against him.

 

 

 

I have no idea what you qualify as character development, but looking at everything that goes on with Sora in the span of Chain of Memories and KHII alone, both games in which his optimism is challenged, where he shows more sides of him than just the happy-go lucky kid we were introduced to, where he shows himself as one that is able to struggle with internal conflict, one that can settle that internal conflict with a renewed sense of optimism that is filled with more layers of understanding, and overall, he builds himself as one that is able to see all sides of the spectrum other than "good is good and bad is bad". It's not exactly mind-blowing or anything, but if you have eyes, you can clearly see it for yourself.

 

 

Obviously, this is something I really don't agree with you on and so I wanted to make my voice heard.

His optimism challenged?Dude's still an optimist to a fault that has everything always going his way even when the odds are againts him like a Gary Stu up until Xehanort caught him in a trap in DDD

 

Other than that his optimism was never challenged,all of his friends are safe so he never feels the same pain the likes of Axel,Roxas and Terra faced of losing a loved on,he never faced  a plight that challenges his beliefs aside from that one time with Xemnas and Xigbar in DDD and all the bad guys easily fall before him as he faces them

 

Heck I'm not the only one pointing his idiocy either,both Joshua and Neku points out how slow on the uptake and faultingly optimistic he is(Kinda like Snow from FFXIII....whom I hate but Sora at least hasn't reached Snow's shittiness......yet)

 

There are a lot of factors to qualify a character development,yes Sora has some but it's so small and miniscule it's barely noticable compared to Riku

 

As for seeing all sides of the spectrum.........then why he's so racist against nobodies always bringing up the point of them not existing whenever he mocks one up until he learned about the obvious stupid lie made by Xemnas later in DDD?Like seriously some of his lines in KH2's World That Never Was reminds me of Wakka's anti Al-Bhed tantrums in FFX?

[Firaga 5,947]

His optimism challenged?Dude's still an optimist to a fault that has everything always going his way even when the odds are againts him like a Gary Stu up until Xehanort caught him in a trap in DDD

 

Other than that his optimism was never challenged,all of his friends are safe so he never feels the same pain the likes of Axel,Roxas and Terra faced of losing a loved on,he never faced  a plight that challenges his beliefs aside from that one time with Xemnas and Xigbar in DDD and all the bad guys easily fall before him as he faces them

 

There are a lot of factors to qualify a character development,yes Sora has some but it's so small and miniscule it's barely noticable compared to Riku

 

It's no secret that I prefer Riku over Sora, but still, to say Sora doesn't change at all up until the point you're describing is still wrong.

 

Going back into it, I didn't say he stopped being an optimist, I said his optimism was challenged, meaning he has had to grow and adapt to new situations that went beyond just his usual mindset of believing in himself and his friends. That means something. That means he sparked a change in himself. Sora in COM couldn't just rely on his old morals, he was struggling with parts of his own identity and the identity of others, and he delved deeper and even subverted some aspects of his prior philosophies about friendship. And in KH2, there's several examples of him being shown at the end of his rope in desperation over his objectives and questioning his own moral compass.

 

Still, while he doesn't get all super moody about these things (for the most part) for too long and he still remains optimistic, but what point would there be in just shattering all those ideals he's built up if there's no meaning left in them? The point to Sora as a whole is that yes, he is an optimist and he tries to see the best in everything but also that even through adversity, he still sees things through, all the while accepting reasonable change as it comes. It's not a bug, it's a feature. It shows true strength in one's heart to be able to shoulder burdens and still wear a smile on your face.

 

He doesn't need an edgelord moment where he gets his inner Riku on. Because that's not who he is, and it won't make him better as a result. Making a character do a 180 on themselves is not constructive.

 

As for seeing all sides of the spectrum.........then why he's so racist against nobodies always bringing up the point of them not existing whenever he mocks one up until he learned about the obvious stupid lie made by Xemnas later in DDD?Like seriously some of his lines in KH2's World That Never Was reminds me of Wakka's anti Al-Bhed tantrums in FFX?

 

He tried to convince Xemnas himself that a heart is more than just based on set emotions by the end of the game. He changed his viewpoints.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Felixx

[Felixx 6,646]

Hey guys, I had to edit some of your posts because they got too personal and off topic. Please try to be civil when discussing, and not getting personal in any kind. Thanks!

[Exiblade7 1,917]

I think they smartest version of Sora is the KH2 sora

Edited May 31, 2016 by Zeldablade7

[Kittenz 4,281]

Sora and Kairi have so potential 

 

Square enix sqrews them over in cutscenes way too much though and completely throws out the previous lore about their personality in some scenes

 

#make baes awesome in kh3 2k16