Rant: My Personal Thoughts on The 'Laws' of Making a Good Story

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

So, I've been meaning to make this rant for years now and I finally decided to make this. Before I start, I would like to point out that this is all opinion-based. You could agree with me (which I highly doubt you will), you could disagree with me and that's fine (but if you try changing my mind or say I'm wrong then I won't care) or you could find this interesting, who knows?

 

Anyway, this might be long, so if you're not into long rants I suggest you leave now.

 

Let's begin:

 

Essentially, I'm a pretty different individual to this topic here and you'll probably find this surprising so hang tight and get something to bite and/or scratch cause you're probably gonna cringe at my words.

 

These past few years, after spending more time on the internet, I've been surprised by the huge dislikes and hate towards the stories of movies, TV shows, video games, etc. to which I personally enjoy a lot. Of course, there's nothing wrong with hating/disliking something as it is all opinion-based, I was just surprised. And after seeing these, to me, it almost feels like that there are 'rules' or 'laws' in order to make a 'good story'. They almost feel forced towards me that it kind of angers me sometimes.

 

When I go watch a movie, for example, I don't give a crap at ALL about character development, background of characters, plot development and all the rest which I personally find to be stupid. All I care about is if the story is interesting or not, THAT'S IT! I don't care if characters were "one-dimensional", I don't care if the plot wasn't "paced well", I don't care if we didn't learn more about a character, I don't care if a scene seemed unnecessary, I don't care if... you get the idea.

 

To me, constantly hearing these over and over again just feels like these are 'laws' that need to be followed. And like I said, I don't care. There are SO many stories that I enjoyed that I hear a lot of people hate. You want examples? Here you go:

 

• Maleficent
• Home on the Range
• Iron Man 2
• Until Dawn
• Alice in Wonderland (2010)
• Fantastic Four (not the 2015 version, but I probably would've liked it, had I seen it)
• Jingle All the Way
• Master of Disguise
• Space Jam
• Cars and Cars 2 (Really don't understand the hate on these movies. I keep hearing "It's a bad idea" yet I never heard why.
• Pirates of the Carribean On Strangers' Tides
• Sword Art Online

And that's just a few. You're probably banging your head to the wall right now aren't you? Well this is the big kicker here: I probably would like the movies Dragonball: Evolution and The Last Airbender if I hadn't seen their respective shows beforehand.

 

Well, glad I got that out of the way, I just have one more thing to say which kind of relates to this.

 

You ready?

 

 

I don't know what's wrong with Aerith's voice acting in KH2. I think it's fine.

 

 

*Drops Mic*

Edited February 19, 2016 by Master Eraqus

[Trece the Xam ( ▀ ͜͞ʖ▀) 3,859]

I don't disagree with you, but I don't agree either.

 

Let's see, you say that all you care for is for the story to be interesting... Yeah, I think that's what I want too. However, those things you've said you do not care about, these "laws", contribute to the plot to make it interesting or not. As you said, all of this comes down to personal opinion, you may prefer a large character development, or you might prefer stay with the same character for the whole thing, it's just a matter of opinions.

 

In a nutshell, I personally think you're putting down things that contribute to make what you want to achieve, which is a good and interesting plot.

 

Nevertheless, I do see where you're coming from, you see people making complicated thoughts about a film (or whatever it is) and start saying stuff like "the characters are boring because they stay the same through the whole plot" and stuff like that, instead of just keeping stuff simple; "-Was the film good before you started thinking about it too much? -Yes. -Then the film can't be as bad as you say".

 

Some people tend to make things more complicated than what they really are, and find bad things that justify their thoughts.

 

 

 

Nice rant, by the way! Clear, without being offensive at all and straight to the point! (It's not THAT long, by the way )

[lostmemory123 1,056]

I have a real problem when it comes to this what you said right here

 

When I go watch a movie, for example, I don't give a crap at ALL about character development, background of characters, plot development and all the rest which I personally find to be stupid. All I care about is if the story is interesting or not, THAT'S IT! I don't care if characters were "one-dimensional", I don't care if the plot wasn't "paced well", I don't care if we didn't learn more about a character, I don't care if a scene seemed unnecessary, I don't care if... you get the idea.

....How?

How can you say you are only interested in a "interesting story" without all those other factors?

Granted, you dont exactly need all those elements to make a good story, but you cant JUST have an interesting idea for a story or an interesting set up and call it a good movie or book,ect. without any of the other factors

 

A good story usually is the result of all the other factors that you listed above. Why the hell would you care about a story if the characters are boring?If the interactions are boring? If literally everything is boring and dull but the idea of the story is "interesting"?

 

There are even movies that have admittedly stupid story ideas, or movies that have not much of a story at all, but people love the movies.

Ratatouille? The idea of its story is, on paper, completely stupid, but give it to the right hands and they can give that idea meaning, character, charm,ect.

 

And have you ever heard of The Big Lebowski? There is hardly any actual story to it, but look how many people adore that movie, theyve even made books discussing how deep it is.

 

Im not gonna argue with your opinions on the movies youve seen, but the idea of you being sold on a movie just because the story seems "interesting"

without any of those other factors baffles me as a person who wants to be part of the entertainment industry.

[Exiblade7 1,917]

AGREED! All I want in movies(storywise obviously), video games(gameplay and storywise), ect is to be very entertaining. I'm not worried about all the other stuff:)

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

.............that's..............good....for you........... *screaming internally*

 

Frankly, there are no "written rules" about what makes a "good movie", it's all art, theoretically you can do whatever the hell you want. But there are a lot of standards that many people agree on, even if they all measure them to differing degrees. And I know you think differently, but there really is a reason why people are constantly going on and on about things like character development and good pacing and all that stuff. It's because those things ACTUALLY ARE IMPORTANT. You like an interesting story? Great! But that story can't happen without characters of some kind, and in order for the story to be as strong as it sets out to be the characters have to be strong enough to carry that weight to it. But being tools of the story is not enough, otherwise it's like watching a puppet show where you can still see the master without a curtain anywhere. The characters should feel believable enough to convince you that "Yeah, what is happening in the story actually does matter". A character is supposed to be like a conduit between the audience and the story, they aren't a blank sleight like the audience but they are a lens (pun not intended) into the world of the movie, giving the audience the perspective needed for the story to unfold.

 

That's not to say that a movie only needs good characters to be good, the story is just as important. It's basically like having human beings without having the Earth, you need a basis in order for context to even exist. But a story can have a hard time standing on it's own without a strong cast of characters to support it. Yes, that mansion over there on that hill looks beautiful, but no one seems to be living in it. It's empty. It has the potential to be extravagant, but without anyone taking up space, it's virtually lifeless. Movies could still be entertaining for the story alone. By all accounts the Matrix Trillogy is a pretty "empty" series, with the characters being nothing more than just carboard cutouts, or "puppets", for the story to be emphasized through. But the action and the events that happen in the movies are still pretty memorable. You can still watch those movies and enjoy them, you can still be entertained, which by all accounts is the bare minimum a movie has to be, entertaining. But it can never be ALL it could potentially be without those strong characters. The cast of the Matrix, as cool as they are, aren't that interesting when you get down to it, a lot of them feel like slaves to the plot. And that's something that can be a problem when the story of the movie is given too much importance over it's many smaller parts. I personally didn't like Maleficent too well because I felt that the movie cared only about the kind of story it wanted to tell rather than making the characters interesting to watch. Maleficent herself was cool in some scenes, but most of the time she softened up simply because that's what she's "supposed" to do, the fairies are made dolts for no other reason than to make Maleficent look more competent, and the King was crazy and stupid just so Maleficent would have a man to defeat and be justified in defeating without being the "villain" of the movie. Because the characters were handled so poorly, it distracted from whatever the plot was trying to make itself, and even if I did think the premise was an interesting idea to begin with (personally I didn't, MISTRESS OF ALL EVIL Maleficent all the way baby!) I felt like I got swindled into getting a broken down buggy. Sure it looks cool, but when you try to turn it on it keeps stuttering and stopping at all the worse times and it's loud as hell.

 

Needless to say, it's not like I thought that the movie didn't have a chance to begin with. If the story wasn't so intrusive in trying to make the original premise so radically different and the characters weren't all mishandled so terribly, then at least it would have been entertaining. But from my personal experience watching it, I really felt like I was just seeing a story happen for a story's sake, not because it wanted to engage me or excite me, but because it just wanted to tell a specific story in a specific way that caters towards itself more than an audience. But that's just what I thought of it, though quite a few people out there share similar feelings nonetheless.

 

But back to my main point, a TRUE good movie is all about finding the right balance. If you have too much story and not enough character focus, then you have an overbloated world where all the exposition is more important than the reactions and actions towards said exposition. On the other hand, have too much character and not enough story then essentially you just have a bunch of over-inflated personalities interacting over what is essentially nothing of interest. Neither part of a movie is less important, you need a good mix of both for it to work right.

 

I will defend however that I'm not telling you how to ENJOY a movie. If you feel like all you need is an interesting enough story to enjoy yourself at a movie and the character details are arbitrary, then that's good for you. As long as you're enjoying yourself at a movie, there are no problems to concern yourself with. But if you are going to try and go out of your way to defend a movie you enjoyed as being a "good movie", you have to understand the inevitability of being challenged on that. There's no "law" about how to make a movie "good", but there are lots of standards that moviegoers and critics have been establishing for years about what makes a movie not just enjoyable but brilliant in it's execution. Movies ARE an art form, that means that while everyone can enjoy them for different reasons, there are some form of standards that they must choose to follow in order to be well esteemed in the community, and in turn make a profit to cover the cost of making the film in the first place.

 

A movie doesn't have to be definitively "good" in order to be enjoyable, but while there is no law to follow, there are guidelines that are necessary to gain that reputation. How you enjoy a movie, whether "good" or "not-so-good" is up to you in the end. So like those movies you mentioned for the same reasons you do now, no one should be telling you that you're wrong for doing so. Just know that other people do have legitimate reasons for disliking them the way you have noticed before.

[GotMilk5101520 573]

You and i think so much alike.

 

Everything you said is the reason why i like Fairy Tail. A lot of people say it has a bad story, no character development, plot development, they go as far to say that it has no story at all. But when i started reading it i never wanted to stop. Because of the reasons above, and like you, i don't care about all that. I just want to enjoy it.

[Gamerazor247 877]

The problem with Aerith's voice is that it's deep af, extremely cringe worthy, if you ask me, but whatever

[Soul_Seeker 753]

Just to let you know, without character development, background of characters, and plot development you'd have a very uninteresting plot. Let's see why:

 

There once was a boy named Kako. He was pretty angsty. He met people. Then he sacrificed himself. The end.

 

That's not an interesting plot because I didn't go over who Kako was, why he sacrificed himself, or who the people he met were. Which makes that a pretty uninteresting story, if I say so myself.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Well dude, your opinion is your opinion, so why am I gonna say it's wrong?  If you don't have the same expectations as other people regarding stories, then that's good and dandy!  Personally, I love myself a good story with good character development and unexpected twists and dark turns!  Cuz happy endings are a bit too common, ya know?  It's the grim endings that surprise me!

 

But yeah, you got across making your point, kiddo!  And hey, if you enjoy your shows/movies/video games, etc the way you do, then no one's gonna stop you!

[OmegaForte 1,674]

 

I have a real problem when it comes to this what you said right here

 

....How?

How can you say you are only interested in a "interesting story" without all those other factors?

Granted, you dont exactly need all those elements to make a good story, but you cant JUST have an interesting idea for a story or an interesting set up and call it a good movie or book,ect. without any of the other factors

 

A good story usually is the result of all the other factors that you listed above. Why the hell would you care about a story if the characters are boring?If the interactions are boring? If literally everything is boring and dull but the idea of the story is "interesting"?

 

There are even movies that have admittedly stupid story ideas, or movies that have not much of a story at all, but people love the movies.

Ratatouille? The idea of its story is, on paper, completely stupid, but give it to the right hands and they can give that idea meaning, character, charm,ect.

 

And have you ever heard of The Big Lebowski? There is hardly any actual story to it, but look how many people adore that movie, theyve even made books discussing how deep it is.

 

Im not gonna argue with your opinions on the movies youve seen, but the idea of you being sold on a movie just because the story seems "interesting"

without any of those other factors baffles me as a person who wants to be part of the entertainment industry.

 

*Claps* Well said. 

 

You and i think so much alike.

 

Everything you said is the reason why i like Fairy Tail. A lot of people say it has a bad story, no character development, plot development, they go as far to say that it has no story at all. But when i started reading it i never wanted to stop. Because of the reasons above, and like you, i don't care about all that. I just want to enjoy it.

 

 

You agree with OP, yet Fairy Tail has all those things. Granted it sometimes doesn't execute them well, but it has everything against what OP said. Even Natsu gets some character development, and he's the least to get that compared to others.

 

@OP: What makes me not complete disagree with you is in the fact what genre we're talking about. Like for example in anime; a slice-of-life anime wouldn't need character development. (And shockingly, there sometimes is.) With certain other genres, I feel as though it needs some character development, plot, etc, or it becomes bland and unmemorable. 

 

And fyi I did read what you wrote on RWBY. It needs it if they plan to go for 10 volumes. They even said they'll go further beyond what Monty had planned. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by OmegaForte

[Headphone Jack 1,147]

When I go watch a movie, for example, I don't give a crap at ALL about character development, background of characters, plot development and all the rest which I personally find to be stupid. All I care about is if the story is interesting or not, THAT'S IT!

so by that logic, if you read a short plot summary on a movie and found it interesting, does that automatically make it a good movie in your opinion?

because if that isn't the case then you very clearly do care about SOMETHING other than just an interesting premise. 

 

to keep this short i'll just say:

interesting to you does not equal a good movie.

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

I think I used the wrong word here. Instead of "interesting", what I really mean is that I just don't go in depth in a story. I don't keep focusing on character development and all the other things I mentioned. Sure they're great. I like it when there's character development and I see why people want it. It just sometimes to me it feels forced by others and if there wasn't, I don't complain about it, I don't even think about it. I just think "Did I like that movie/video game/show?" "Yes or No."

I have a real problem when it comes to this what you said right here

 

....How?

How can you say you are only interested in a "interesting story" without all those other factors?

Granted, you dont exactly need all those elements to make a good story, but you cant JUST have an interesting idea for a story or an interesting set up and call it a good movie or book,ect. without any of the other factors

 

A good story usually is the result of all the other factors that you listed above. Why the hell would you care about a story if the characters are boring?If the interactions are boring? If literally everything is boring and dull but the idea of the story is "interesting"?

 

There are even movies that have admittedly stupid story ideas, or movies that have not much of a story at all, but people love the movies.

Ratatouille? The idea of its story is, on paper, completely stupid, but give it to the right hands and they can give that idea meaning, character, charm,ect.

 

And have you ever heard of The Big Lebowski? There is hardly any actual story to it, but look how many people adore that movie, theyve even made books discussing how deep it is.

 

Im not gonna argue with your opinions on the movies youve seen, but the idea of you being sold on a movie just because the story seems "interesting"

without any of those other factors baffles me as a person who wants to be part of the entertainment industry.

Really I just watch a movie and think whether I liked it or not. I don't go in depth a lot.

 

so by that logic, if you read a short plot summary on a movie and found it interesting, does that automatically make it a good movie in your opinion?

because if that isn't the case then you very clearly do care about SOMETHING other than just an interesting premise. 

 

to keep this short i'll just say:

interesting to you does not equal a good movie.

I'm not saying it does equal a good movie. I say it equals a good movie to ME personally.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Master Eraqus

[HeartlessAqua 38]

I'm the kind of person who can respect another person's opinion, but still view them as wrong. I do not believe in bullshit like "It's my opinion and anyone can think what they want because there's no objective facts". Some things are totally subjective, like personal taste (We can all like what we want to like), but some things can be measured by a certain standard.

 

A movie can be a bad movie. Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 2 is a totally bad movie. It tries to do so many complex things and it tries to portray some honestly interesting ideas, but due to issues with production, the writers ended up creating a very confused mess. For instance, the writers TRIED to make it a movie about "nature=good, technology=bad", but the writing was so jumbled and confused that that message wasn't even clear. The movie feels more like an aimless series of events with no meaning, and so when the climax came along, I felt almost no care whatsoever for anything that was going on. Hell, the writing was so jumbled that I didn't even understand certain parts.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong concerning personal taste. You can enjoy movies for whatever reasons you want to. You can even enjoy movies that are generally considered bad. And if you believe a movie that is considered bad is actually good, more power to you. What I cannot agree with is your belief that these movie "rules" are dumb or unnecessary.

 

All movies, even very lowbrow entertainment, must be designed with care, effort, imagination, organization, and intelligence. The only exceptions I can think of are very artsy experimental films which purposely try to do things in a radical way. Otherwise, if a movie is lacking in these qualities, then this will often result in a movie that feels rushed, or nonsensical, or even downright lazy or careless.

 

I will agree with one thing though. I HATE when people say stories HAVE to follow a certain formula. I HATE when people say "This character HAS to have lots of development" or "This story HAS to be deep and meaningful". I especially hate it when the people saying these are themselves very amateurish writers, as if they somehow have authority over what is universally good and bad.

 

My belief is that movies, and stories in general, can come in a wide variety. They don't have to follow a strict formula, and they shouldn't. Otherwise, they'll all feel like assembly line productions, rather than free-flowing works of art.

 

Not every character has to be deep. Not ever scene has to be loaded with philosophic messages. Not every movie has to be serious. Son of Godzilla is such a campy film with such simplistic characters and ideas, but it is still a solid film in which the creators knew what they were doing and thought things out.

 

A movie should do what it NEEDS to do in order to achieve maximum entertainment value, or maximum emotional value, or whatnot. Every movie has its own unique needs.

 

And in case anyone gets smug and says something like "I don't care" or "You're wasting your time, you're not changing my mind", let me just say right now that I don't CARE. I don't care if you disagree with me. I don't care if you won't change your mind. I'm not writing this post to change anyone's mind. I don't give two shits about what you people think of my post. I'm typing this to express my own beliefs on the subject, which interested me.

Edited March 6, 2016 by HeartlessAqua

[Takzu20 78]

Good rant, even though I disagree somewhat. You are entitled to your opinion, and I can respect that. BUT I personally think a good story is a good balance of interesting plot, and well rounded characters. 

 

A story could have an interesting concept that I fell like I could thoroughly enjoy, but it all fall flat for me when the characters are dull. And I would be disappointed because you have so much story potential, but the characters' reactions are akin to that of Bella from Twilight. "Yeah, your a vampire. I guess that's cool. I'm going to stare at everything with an open mouth now, and see if I can attract any flies."

 

And on the other side of the spectrum is a story with a boring concept, but interesting characters. That frustrates me more that the good plot with bad characters. Here you're invested in these characters, and you want to see them accomplish so much! But you can't get into it because the story itself is so bland! You could see these guys having the adventure of a lifetime, but instead they face problems like trying to pass a test! 

 

I can see your opinion, and I completely respect it. I just have a hard time with a story when it isn't balanced like it could be. But that might just be the fanfic author in me talking. 

[hazzlie 105]

I don't really understand how anyone can watch a movie just for the story, that's what books are for.

 

For me it's the characters and plot that make a well thought out story but to each his own I guess.