The Transcendent Key 12,109 Posted December 8, 2015 Hey there everyone, how's it going!? So then, while looking at the most angsty character in KH topic, I replied by saying I thought Riku was the most angsty, and in my reply, I touched upon Riku giving himself to the darkness to transform into Ansem in order to defeat Roxas so Sora could awaken! And that is when it came to me...a revelation! Riku actually never "beat" Roxas! I mean, the only way he actually defeated him was by giving himself to darkness! If he hadn't done that, he'd have probably lost, and Roxas would've stormed The Castle That Never Was all on his own, and Sora might have never awakened again! When you think about that...damn, Roxas is one strong mother lover! Think about it, you'll find it intriguing! 0_0 So the question is, if Roxas and Riku had a rematch, would Roxas beat him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PillowHead 569 Posted December 8, 2015 Honestly my entire concept of "power" and "strength" within the series is just nonexistent at this point. All I know is Sora will never lose, so what's the point? 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiro 3,468 Posted December 8, 2015 You right. Riku didn't beat Roxas. It was the Guardian that beat (read: crushed the spirit out of) Roxas. Even though Riku never summons it again for whatever reason/Nomuralogic. ... Actually, in KH2 Riku admitted that he had lost to Roxas. Quote: "After that I fought him [Roxas] because I thought it would help you wake up. I lost, but the next time we met I made sure I was the stronger one." It's just that the "next time" was like a cutscene later, because Nomuraretcons 4 Enix, MythrilMagician, Ultima Spark and 1 other reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kingdomhe 1,362 Posted December 8, 2015 Hey there everyone, how's it going!? So then, while looking at the most angsty character in KH topic, I replied by saying I thought Riku was the most angsty, and in my reply, I touched upon Riku giving himself to the darkness to transform into Ansem in order to defeat Roxas so Sora could awaken! And that is when it came to me...a revelation! Riku actually never "beat" Roxas! I mean, the only way he actually defeated him was by giving himself to darkness! If he hadn't done that, he'd have probably lost, and Roxas would've stormed The Castle That Never Was all on his own, and Sora might have never awakened again! When you think about that...damn, Roxas is one strong mother lover! Think about it, you'll find it intriguing! 0_0 So the question is, if Roxas and Riku had a rematch, would Roxas beat him? well they fought before and riku lost, but yeah riku didn't have the keyblade then so going up against someone with two....rekt. but if riku fought roxas now then ether riku would win or it would be a draw. You right. Riku didn't beat Roxas. It was the Guardian that beat (read: crushed the spirit out of) Roxas. Even though Riku never summons it again for whatever reason/Nomuralogic. ... Actually, in KH2 Riku admitted that he had lost to Roxas. Quote: "After that I fought him [Roxas] because I thought it would help you wake up. I lost, but the next time we met I made sure I was the stronger one." It's just that the "next time" was like a cutscene later, because Nomuraretcons actually not really, if you remember in days one of the mission said to eliminate the impostor, that was riku. 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heartless Plush 177 Posted December 8, 2015 Yeah, but Roxas didn't win so... 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiro 3,468 Posted December 8, 2015 actually not really, if you remember in days one of the mission said to eliminate the impostor, that was riku. Oh yeah, you're right. Forgot about that. But... you didn't actually fight Riku, right? You just chased him around the map. 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kingdomhe 1,362 Posted December 8, 2015 Oh yeah, you're right. Forgot about that. But... you didn't actually fight Riku, right? You just chased him around the map. you had to hit him a few times but he just ran around and did nothing 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiro 3,468 Posted December 8, 2015 you had to hit him a few times but he just ran around and did nothing Yeah... So I wouldn't count that as Roxas and Riku fighting and Riku losing. 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kingdomhe 1,362 Posted December 8, 2015 Yeah... So I wouldn't count that as Roxas and Riku fighting and Riku losing. well thats the only other time riku and him met so i think thats what he meant. 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Headphone Jack 1,147 Posted December 8, 2015 another way to look at it might be that Riku saw them as evenly matched and so he decided to pull out his trump card to end things right there 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KingdomHearts3 2,591 Posted December 8, 2015 Yes. Seeing as how he had to use darkness to overcome Roxas, he truly did not win. Roxas beat him in hand-on-hand combat so Riku using his dark power showed how far he had fallen. 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiro 3,468 Posted December 8, 2015 well thats the only other time riku and him met so i think thats what he meant. Most likely he was referring to the Another Side/Deep Dive battle, since that encounter can be considered as pretty insignificant. Besides, Riku admitted that he lost to Roxas in KH2. Days wasn't there yet, but KH/KHFM (and thus the secret ending(s)) was already out, so it'd make more sense to refer to that battle than the encounter in that one mission in Days. 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kingdomhe 1,362 Posted December 8, 2015 Most likely he was referring to the Another Side/Deep Dive battle, since that encounter can be considered as pretty insignificant. Besides, Riku admitted that he lost to Roxas in KH2. Days wasn't there yet, but KH/KHFM (and thus the secret ending(s)) was already out, so it'd make more sense to refer to that battle than the encounter in that one mission in Days. um nomura already had planed out mostly everything by the time of kh2. another side/deep dive is the same battle 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiro 3,468 Posted December 8, 2015 um nomura already had planed out mostly everything by the time of kh2. another side/deep dive is the same battle Okay... Whether Nomura actually knew what he was doing beforehand or not is another story, but it doesn't make sense for Riku to refer to playing tag with Roxas in Mission whatever, as it's not even that significant in the overall story, and it makes even less sense for him to consider any of that as losing to Roxas. Besides, the thing they showed in KH2 was their fight in the Dark City, not any of the imposter stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kingdomhe 1,362 Posted December 8, 2015 Okay... Whether Nomura actually knew what he was doing beforehand or not is another story, but it doesn't make sense for Riku to refer to playing tag with Roxas in Mission whatever, as it's not even that significant in the overall story, and it makes even less sense for him to consider any of that as losing to Roxas. Besides, the thing they showed in KH2 was their fight in the Dark City, not any of the imposter stuff. in kh2 they showed the "wining" fight but maybe they are talking about something else we do know yet, something that might have been in bbs vol. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XionRoxasSora 239 Posted December 8, 2015 Honestly my entire concept of "power" and "strength" within the series is just nonexistent at this point. All I know is Sora will never lose, so what's the point?Actually I think Roxas is stronger than sora. Because every time you fight him he is usually just testing Sora. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave 5,715 Posted December 8, 2015 Well, Riku might not have been the powers that were really his... But then again, Roxas never used any powers that were his own either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KHUndertaleFan25 2,858 Posted December 8, 2015 Honestly, when I saw them fighting, I knew Riku didn't have a chance. Please don't kill me . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rikunobodyxiii 700 Posted December 8, 2015 So, since Riku used Ansem's power, he didn't truly beat Roxas. But by that logic, did Roxas beat Riku? At this time, Roxas had absorbed Xion and awakened Ven enough to get a second Keyblade. He's using abilities and stengths that were not originally his own (might be debatable on the Xion front, I'll grant), and leads with them, forcing Riku into "becoming" Ansem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AngelTheWeirdStranger 504 Posted December 8, 2015 That fight always confused me on the part of who won and who lost. First Riku is knocked down and starts asking "Why do you have the Keyblade?". Roxas attacks but he gets knocked back and falls unconscious. At that point, if Riku didn't need Roxas he could easily stab his face with Oblivion, instead of hitting the floor next to his ear. But then Roxas wakes up and gives Riku a beating, so now Riku has to rely on Darkness to win. So...Doesn't Riku practically win since he knocked Roxas out first and had the chance to finish him but didn't? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rikunobodyxiii 700 Posted December 8, 2015 That fight always confused me on the part of who won and who lost.First Riku is knocked down and starts asking "Why do you have the Keyblade?".Roxas attacks but he gets knocked back and falls unconscious.At that point, if Riku didn't need Roxas he could easily stab his face with Oblivion, instead of hitting the floor next to his ear.But then Roxas wakes up and gives Riku a beating, so now Riku has to rely on Darkness to win.So...Doesn't Riku practically win since he knocked Roxas out first and had the chance to finish him but didn't? hmm. That is a fair point. I had forgotten about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Transcendent Key 12,109 Posted December 9, 2015 Hmm, haha, this topic I made has spurred on quite the discussion! I didn't expect this to be discussed so much! Now that I've read all of your replies, I do find it interesting that Roxas was also using a power that wasn't originally his...which means that technically, they'd both have ended in a draw if using only their own strength! But still, with Riku having a bit more experience, I think he'd have the advantage against Roxas! Hmm, most interesting indeed! 1 rikunobodyxiii reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rikunobodyxiii 700 Posted December 11, 2015 Hmm, haha, this topic I made has spurred on quite the discussion! I didn't expect this to be discussed so much! Now that I've read all of your replies, I do find it interesting that Roxas was also using a power that wasn't originally his...which means that technically, they'd both have ended in a draw if using only their own strength! But still, with Riku having a bit more experience, I think he'd have the advantage against Roxas! Hmm, most interesting indeed! Well...maybe on the experience front? Riku has been out and about, fighting things longer then Roxas, but I think Roxas's shorter time was more rigorous then Riku's (partly due to having Saix as a task master). 1 The Transcendent Key reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Transcendent Key 12,109 Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Well...maybe on the experience front? Riku has been out and about, fighting things longer then Roxas, but I think Roxas's shorter time was more rigorous then Riku's (partly due to having Saix as a task master). That is true as well...the truth is, Roxas was practically rushed, and therefore, pressured by the Organization to learn to use the Keyblade, so his training was indeed more rigorous! So yes, you have a good point there! He was constantly sent on missions to hone his strength and collect hearts, so that attributed to his growth in strength! Riku, in the meantime, was teaching himself how to get the hang of his Keyblade! Hmm, interesting indeed... Edit: Ah, I see you are a Stormtrooper of The First Order. I welcome you into the Order, soldier. Your skills will be most valuable in taking down the Resistance... Edited December 12, 2015 by The Transcendent Key 1 rikunobodyxiii reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rikunobodyxiii 700 Posted December 12, 2015 That is true as well...the truth is, Roxas was practically rushed, and therefore, pressured by the Organization to learn to use the Keyblade, so his training was indeed more rigorous! So yes, you have a good point there! He was constantly sent on missions to hone his strength and collect hearts, so that attributed to his growth in strength! Riku, in the meantime, was teaching himself how to get the hang of his Keyblade! Hmm, interesting indeed... Edit: Ah, I see you are a Stormtrooper of The First Order. I welcome you into the Order, soldier. Your skills will be most valuable in taking down the Resistance... No fear, my lord. I intend to show those Resisitance Scum the full fury of the First Order. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
