Do You Consider KH's Story Deep?

[hatok 6,413]

Well? Would you consider the plot deep?

Ideally, explain why. Let's try to not get into fights, though

 

[Frisk 3,460]

Well it does speak for itself

 

 

[Guest]

LOL NOPE.

 

Shallow as a dried up pond.

[Exiblade7 1,917]

I do consider the KH lore deep. 

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

There is a lot of detailed info you need to understand that is spread out throughout the numerous games and numerous interviews (that aren't always easily accessable to everyone btw ) That says it all. I wouldn't ever call it simplistic by any means. I myself don't find it hard to understand though bc I keep informed.

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

Story: Deep.

 

Lore: Pretty damn deep.

 

Story, Lore and Characters Togeth--FIRETRUCKING....GEEEEEEEEENIUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSS-ly Deep. X3

[KHUndertaleFan25 2,858]

I understand it perfectly well. It's like my brain can comprehend what's going on.

So yeah, it's deep to me .

Edited August 3, 2015 by PrincessHearts25

[Eternalsleep 175]

I didnt think so at first. But when birth by sleep came out and everything started coming together as master xehanorts 10 yr plan, the story got pretty damn deep.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

If by deep you mean intellectual or conveying some kind of meaning, ha ha no. KH is obviously a very dense series with a ton of lore to learn, but density does not translate into profound. It's a fanfic story cobbled together over 8 games with little to no forethought for at least half the series- it's about as deep as Marvel vs. Capcom.

[KeybladeLordCheeseCurd 1,542]

I understand it perfectly well. It's like my brain can comprehend what's going on.So yeah, it's deep to me .

That what I think

[Dave 5,715]

I found the first game to be deep, with a lot of room for interpretation and discovery of meaning. Since then, it's become somewhat more straightforward.

 

Remember: there's a difference between deep and complicated.

[Psychic_Ketchup 367]

There's certainly a lot of story, and while it is all connected, that connection isn't always as strong. So I don't think deep is the right word.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

The plot of the games I wouldn't really call 'deep', just complicated. Now, the characters/themes/symbolism is an entirely different story. You could write a book on all of the crap the KH series says about light, darkness, the heart, body, soul, etc. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by Kaweebo

[VisitJoan 2,713]

I don't know how you could say it's not deep as complex as the plot is.

[Komali 594]

It is deep in both philosophical and psychological terms.

 

- the idea behind nobodies, who shouldn't even exist

- Ansem the Wise and his scientific rational view over the nature of the heart

- classification in being good and evil (in other words: light and darkness)

- importance of memories and dreams

- identity crisis and the way to find yourself

 

Well I could practically write a book about it.

[AwesomeKHfan 1,250]

Well it's deep but the disney just takes me out of it sometimes...

Edited August 3, 2015 by AwesomeKHfan

[TheFinalPersonaKeyblade 1,029]

Main plot: No.

Themes concerning the main plot:Hell yes!

[Dracozombie 4,554]

The story itself is a complicated mess, but the lore and the philosophies surrounding them gives KH more weight than you'd expect from the premise (funny how "fanfic story" is generally used as an insult). I won't argue whether or not its themes are explored to their fullest (if I had to dig deep, they're probably not), but there's some prominent existential themes going on: what it means to exist; what it takes to be your own person; how you're shaped by the sum of your memories, and destroying even one memory can potentially impact who you are as a person -- and how others view you; how bright lights cast the greatest shadows, which can mean the better/purer something is, the more the imperfections are prominent (think of a single black spot on an otherwise stark white painting, versus a white canvas filled with black spots).

 

Even if the games themselves use those themes more literally than metaphorically (if you lose your memories, you actually disappear), the sentiment is still there, and it gives me something to chew on. And it doesn't matter whether or not my interpretations are correct, or if it's actually what the games had in mind -- the important part is that I can stop and analyze and think. Isn't that what depth is?

[Dio Brando 5,810]

It kinda used to be deep but after a while especially with the handheld entries it's more convoluted,contrived and so full of itself

 

Sure the premise and philosophy are pretty good but they're so under utilized due to how under-developed the main cast are(especially Sora) and how basically Nomura focuses on cramming as much shit as he can rather than taking the time to flesh out the characters with interesting character arcs,backstories and the most important of all in a story-driven franchise:CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

 

 

There is a game series that,in it's later entries,has the same premise and philosophy as Kingdom Hearts but with a much better execution with fleshed out,well developed relatable characters and a narrative that still maintain a deep,thought provoking yet still simple to understand story

 

 

I won't mention it here cuz I'll leave that for another time

Well it does speak for itself

BA-DUM TSSSSH

If by deep you mean intellectual or conveying some kind of meaning, ha ha no. KH is obviously a very dense series with a ton of lore to learn, but density does not translate into profound. It's a fanfic story cobbled together over 8 games with little to no forethought for at least half the series- it's about as deep as Marvel vs. Capcom.

In short:Nomura makes shit up as he goes

There is a lot of detailed info you need to understand that is spread out throughout the numerous games and numerous interviews (that aren't always easily accessable to everyone btw ) That says it all. I wouldn't ever call it simplistic by any means. I myself don't find it hard to understand though bc I keep informed.

It's not that it's hard to understand,it's just once you fully understand it suddenly a slew of plotholes,contrivences and inconsistencies show themselves on top of an under-developed cast of characters(with the exception of few like Riku)

Edited August 4, 2015 by Smash Mega Koopa

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

It kinda used to be deep but after a while especially with the handheld entries it's more convoluted,contrived and so full of itself

 

Sure the premise and philosophy are pretty good but they're so under utilized due to how under-developed the main cast are(especially Sora) and how basically Nomura focuses on cramming as much shit as he can rather than taking the time to flesh out the characters with interesting character arcs,backstories and the most important of all in a story-driven franchise:CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

 

 

There is a game series that,in it's later entries,has the same premise and philosophy as Kingdom Hearts but with a much better execution with fleshed out,well developed relatable characters and a narrative that still maintain a deep,thought provoking yet still simple to understand story

 

 

I won't mention it here cuz I'll leave that for another time

BA-DUM TSSSSH

In short:Nomura makes shit up as he goes

It's not that it's hard to understand,it's just once you fully understand it suddenly a slew of plotholes,contrivences and inconsistencies show themselves on top of an under-developed cast of characters(with the exception of few like Riku)

 Yeah and to me that takes away from any depth it originally ever had when they can't keep the story straight to begin with. If you want something to have meaning and depth it helps to not confuse your fans or over-complicate it.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

 Yeah and to me that takes away from any depth it originally ever had when they can't keep the story straight to begin with. If you want something to have meaning and depth it helps to not confuse your fans or over-complicate it.

Nowadays KH pretends to be deep and cool just by throwing words at you like light,darkness,power of the heart,our hearts are connected .....etc without showing any actual coherent structure that make those words mean anything

 

Sora loves to preach the phrase "our hearts are connected" yet it feels empty cuz I haven't seen actual bonding with those characters,everything is either told off-screen or just to your guess cuz we barely know 10% about who the firetruck those people are

 

I know nothing about Sora aside from being a walking shonen troupe who never seemed to face any sort of misery in his life and portraied(please tell me the correct spelling of that) as the "perfect" dude you wanna be like....which ironically leads to the opposite.I know nothing about his hopes and dreams,I know nothing about his life in Destiny Island aside from playing with his friends and he has a girlfriend named Kairi and a BFF named Riku,it would be interesting if the happy demeanor Sora puts on  would be a facade so he can hide his true persona and his hidden anxieties and issues....that would make for an interesting plot point if Sora himself was infected by the darkness and in KH3 they can make us see how he overcomes said darkness and how Xehanort would try to use it to draw Sora to his side but nope..........that ain't happening cuz according to Nomura firetruck decent character arcs & development and firetruck intriguing writing.....darkity dark dark darkness darkness darkness darkity heart heart lighty light light

Edited August 4, 2015 by Smash Mega Koopa

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

The story itself is a complicated mess, but the lore and the philosophies surrounding them gives KH more weight than you'd expect from the premise (funny how "fanfic story" is generally used as an insult). I won't argue whether or not its themes are explored to their fullest (if I had to dig deep, they're probably not), but there's some prominent existential themes going on: what it means to exist; what it takes to be your own person; how you're shaped by the sum of your memories, and destroying even one memory can potentially impact who you are as a person -- and how others view you; how bright lights cast the greatest shadows, which can mean the better/purer something is, the more the imperfections are prominent (think of a single black spot on an otherwise stark white painting, versus a white canvas filled with black spots).

 

Even if the games themselves use those themes more literally than metaphorically (if you lose your memories, you actually disappear), the sentiment is still there, and it gives me something to chew on. And it doesn't matter whether or not my interpretations are correct, or if it's actually what the games had in mind -- the important part is that I can stop and analyze and think. Isn't that what depth is?

 

Simply bringing up themes doesn't make something deep, the story has to go somewhere with it. KH plays with these themes of existentialism and how our memories shape us, but it never goes deep with them: we never see Roxas get any kind of peace or closure with his issues, he just fuses with Sora. Neither does Xion for that matter, which to be fair, she's supposed to be a tragic figure, but Roxas and Axel (or anyone else) never get to learn or accept anything from her death because everyone has to forget about her because otherwise the story doesn't make sense. The way KH has been written and the fact that it's specifically aimed at children so it's not allowed to tackle these mature themes in any real way keeps it from ever actually reaching a meaningful place in any literary sense.

 

And I'm glad that you find KH fascinating to to think about, but that doesn't mean the story is deep; personal taste is irrelevant. Plenty of peopl think things like Sonic the Hedgehog have really deep stories too, and I really doubt I have to explain how that's not true.

[hatok 6,413]

Nowadays KH pretends to be deep and cool just by throwing words at you like light,darkness,power of the heart,our hearts are connected .....etc without showing any actual coherent structure that make those words mean anything

 

Sora loves to preach the phrase "our hearts are connected" yet it feels empty cuz I haven't seen actual bonding with those characters,everything is either told off-screen or just to your guess cuz we barely know 10% about who the firetruck those people are

 

I know nothing about Sora aside from being a walking shonen troupe who never seemed to face any sort of misery in his life and portraied(please tell me the correct spelling of that) as the "perfect" dude you wanna be like....which ironically leads to the opposite.I know nothing about his hopes and dreams,I know nothing about his life in Destiny Island aside from playing with his friends and he has a girlfriend named Kairi and a BFF named Riku,it would be interesting if the happy demeanor Sora puts on  would be a facade so he can hide his true persona and his hidden anxieties and issues....that would make for an interesting plot point if Sora himself was infected by the darkness and in KH3 they can make us see how he overcomes said darkness and how Xehanort would try to use it to draw Sora to his side but nope..........that ain't happening cuz according to Nomura firetruck decent character arcs & development and firetruck intriguing writing.....darkity dark dark darkness darkness darkness darkity heart heart lighty light light

Sora has plenty of cues that flesh out his character. He believes in Santa, he wants to be king, and he'll believe in a lie enough to make it true

The fact that he hasn't faced misery isn't really a character flaw, or a problem. A character doesn't need deep psychological issues to be good. They don't need angst. Somtimes... they're just allowed mt be happy. 

Sora's still had his problems. He lost a year of his life after having the memories of everyone he knew and loved wiped away. He lost his home land. he regularly loses Riku and/or Kairi, and the keyblade didn't even choose him.

The idea that Sora being happy has to be a facade in order for him to be a good character is... strange to say the least

And characters arcs and development are overrated. They're not needed in every situation, and they aren't a secret recipe for an endearing character.

(it's portrayed, btw, since you asked)

 

Simply bringing up themes doesn't make something deep, the story has to go somewhere with it. KH plays with these themes of existentialism and how our memories shape us, but it never goes deep with them: we never see Roxas get any kind of peace or closure with his issues, he just fuses with Sora. Neither does Xion for that matter, which to be fair, she's supposed to be a tragic figure, but Roxas and Axel (or anyone else) never get to learn or accept anything from her death because everyone has to forget about her because otherwise the story doesn't make sense. The way KH has been written and the fact that it's specifically aimed at children so it's not allowed to tackle these mature themes in any real way keeps it from ever actually reaching a meaningful place in any literary sense.

 

And I'm glad that you find KH fascinating to to think about, but that doesn't mean the story is deep; personal taste is irrelevant. Plenty of peopl think things like Sonic the Hedgehog have really deep stories too, and I really doubt I have to explain how that's not true.

I dunno if it was your intent, but I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that being aimed at kids not not tackling mature themes excludes something from being meaningful in a literary sense

[VisitJoan 2,713]

 I dunno if it was your intent, but I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that being aimed at kids not not tackling mature themes excludes something from being meaningful in a literary sense

I agree with Hatok here. Meaningful themes don't have to be mature.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

I dunno if it was your intent, but I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that being aimed at kids not not tackling mature themes excludes something from being meaningful in a literary sense

I agree with Hatok here. Meaningful themes don't have to be mature.

 

That's not what I meant; I probably could have worded that better. It's not that kid's story's can't be meaningful, it's that KH is addressing very mature themes that are very difficult put into a story designed for younger audiences. If it were just about friendship and never giving up, things like that, then it'd be fine, but when they bring in elements of death and grief, existential crises, how our memories can define us, they can't address them with the attention those themes deserve. You rarely see any kid's content do that well (ironically, Disney is about the only one to do it right), and pretty much no video game has ever done it justice either.