What Makes Xion's Keyblade a Sham?

[hatok 6,413]

Something from the other topic

Back when Days was made, we were still under the impression that keyblades were in some way special

But they're not, they're just fancy, but man-made, swords

So knowing that... what makes Xion's keyblade a 'sham'?

I always had interpreted it as being a man made copy... but keyblades are man made

It's not any weaker than a normal keyblade. It can still change shape, it can still collect hearts

What about it defines it as a fake? I assume it can be destroyed, like Data Sora's keyblade? I dunno

but literally nothing we've seen makes this keyblade less valuable, though I'm curious when Riku became such an expert on the subject in the first place, now that I think about it

 

[Tails 6,690]

Ummm...because it's fake and not the real thing? Man, you sure have been asking a lot of questions lately Hatok .

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Well it's not just Riku. Nomura confirmed it too. Nomura = canon.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

Well, I'm guessing the Keyblade is "fake" because it was actually replicated from Roxas by the Organization, more specifically, Vexen!  It's not out of the realm of possibility, since Vexen is a scientist, after all.  If he could make a fake Riku, then he'd no doubt be able to replicate a Keyblade.

Edited July 28, 2015 by The Transcendent Key

[catmaster0116 2,676]

I've been thinking about this too.

 

I think Xion's Keyblade was created from Sora's memories of what a Keyblade should be

A keyblade is known to manifest when a person with a strong heart is granted power from a master and I feel it is implied that a person's heart is intimately linked to their Keyblade.

 

But Xion was artificial in mind, heart and body and thus her Keyblade would reflect that

In short, her keyblade has all the abilities of the real keyblade but due to the fact it was born from the memories of another person made it a fake Keyblade.

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

Ever heard of Counterfeit Products? They're man-made too but of a significantly lower quality than the official item in question.

 

Replicas are imperfect, counterfeit people in a sense, as are their weapons. While it may have the same functions, it isn't a real Keyblade. It was not forged, it was 3D Printed, as it were, from cheap materials, Plastic and the like.

 

It imitates a Keyblade flawlessly in function, but it was not the same. It cannot compare in many ways to the real thing, which isn't even THE real thing either! (X-Blade Copies, if you recall.)

[hatok 6,413]

Well, I'm guessing the Keyblade is "fake" because it was actually replicated from Roxas by the Organization, more specifically, Vexen!  It's not out of the realm of possibility, since Vexen is a scientist, after all.  If he could make a fake Riku, then he'd no doubt be able to replicate a Keyblade.

Yeah, it's "fake"

but not in any meaningful way. It has all the properties of a keyblade, and it's man made, just like any other keyblade. So what makes it so special that it gets called a sham, when it's indistinguishable from the original?

 

Ever heard of Counterfeit Products? They're man-made too but of a significantly lower quality than the official item in question.

 

Replicas are imperfect, counterfeit people in a sense, as are their weapons. While it may have the same functions, it isn't a real Keyblade. It was not forged, it was 3D Printed, as it were, from cheap materials, Plastic and the like.

 

It imitates a Keyblade flawlessly in function, but it was not the same. It cannot compare in many ways to the real thing, which isn't even THE real thing either! (X-Blade Copies, if you recall.)

right, and this line of thinking is what I originally interpreted it as. It was a counterfeit, it simply wasn't as good as the original in some way... but if that's the intent it's really not shown. I would've liked to see even just a small scene dedicated to it not doing something a keyblade should, like unlocking doors or something. As it stands, it's just a perfect copy, and it being man made means nothing, since all keyblades are man made

[Grotesquery 603]

Xion's heart was created from Data, memories of Kairi taken from Sora. Since her heart consists of someone else's memories, her heart is basically a sham. The Keyblade is linked to the heart, and is sort of a manifestation of a person and their feelings. Unfortunately, Xion is not her own person, making her Keyblade and all of her powers based on shadows of someone else.

 

I wouldn't say her Keyblade is a sham. It's more of an abomination.

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

Yeah, it's "fake"

but not in any meaningful way. It has all the properties of a keyblade, and it's man made, just like any other keyblade. So what makes it so special that it gets called a sham, when it's indistinguishable from the original?

 

right, and this line of thinking is what I originally interpreted it as. It was a counterfeit, it simply wasn't as good as the original in some way... but if that's the intent it's really not shown. I would've liked to see even just a small scene dedicated to it not doing something a keyblade should, like unlocking doors or something. As it stands, it's just a perfect copy, and it being man made means nothing, since all keyblades are man made

Whatever the case, Xion's Keyblade no longer exists.

 

It died with her and her merging with Roxas merely awakened his potential to wield Ventus's Keyblade. (I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Lea. Know you're here. )

 

Therefore, as it is a now Defunct Counterfeit Product, this is entirely a pointless discussion.

[hatok 6,413]

Whatever the case, Xion's Keyblade no longer exists.

 

It died with her and her merging with Roxas merely awakened his potential to wield Ventus's Keyblade. (I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Lea. Know you're here. )

 

Therefore, as it is a now Defunct Counterfeit Product, this is entirely a pointless discussion.

that's

not really relevant

the point of discussion is that it was called a sham, the fact that it was destroyed has no bearing on that, and the fact that something was destroyed in a story doesn't in any way mean it can't be discussed

you might think it's pointless, but... that doesn't really mater either

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

that's

not really relevant

the point of discussion is that it was called a sham, the fact that it was destroyed has no bearing on that, and the fact that something was destroyed in a story doesn't in any way mean it can't be discussed

you might think it's pointless, but... that doesn't really mater either

You said in a previous topic that it was Kairi's Keyblade, which is impossible due to it's non-existence.

 

And I'm proving it is a Sham, Counterfeit, Fake, whatever and that any other points it is involved in are now moot and worthless.

 

It's a sham and serves no further purpose in the story other than being Xion's Weapon.

[hatok 6,413]

You said in a previous topic that it was Kairi's Keyblade, which is impossible due to it's non-existence.

 

And I'm proving it is a Sham, Counterfeit, Fake, whatever and that any other points it is involved in are now moot and worthless.

 

It's a sham and serves no further purpose in the story other than being Xion's Weapon.

this isn't about the other topic though, I'm just wondering what makes this keyblade distinct enough to be called a sham, despite being a perfect replica of the keyblade, as far as we've seen. The fact that it was destroyed later doesn't eliminate the question, and it doesn't answer it either

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

this isn't about the other topic though, I'm just wondering what makes this keyblade distinct enough to be called a sham, despite being a perfect replica of the keyblade, as far as we've seen. The fact that it was destroyed later doesn't eliminate the question, and it doesn't answer it either

Replica = Sham.

 

Simple. And it was destroyed, a Real Keyblade can't be from what we have seen.

[hatok 6,413]

Replica = Sham.

 

Simple. And it was destroyed, a Real Keyblade can't be from what we have seen.

but it's just a man made keyblade, and while it was ...kinda... destroyed, it wasn't explicit data Sora's. It just wasn't there when Xion turned into ice cream, and it might have been those blades she used in the boss battles, but those might just be part of the puppet? it's vague

but it's not like Riku destroyed it or any of the other people commenting on it did. What, outside of the possibility of it being destroyed which nobody saw, makes people define it as a sham? It just seems weird, given what we know now

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

I think the only thing that makes Xion's Keyblade a "fake" is because it is simply because she is considered "fake". The Keyblades are born from peoples' hearts, hence the "man-made" nature, so since Xion's Keyblade is born from her, a puppet deemed even meeker in existence than a Nobody, it is just sort of considered fake. If anything, it's just for the sake of insulting the blade and its wielder, it doesn't really change its attributes in any way. Unless it is supposed to be similar to Data-Sora's Keyblade in that it is physically made out of data (or some kind of substitute) and it has specific limitations that it was never expected to surpass. But a program in a computer is one thing, a physical construct made from an empty puppet is another thing entirely. But giving Xion the benefit of the doubt, I would say that it for all intents and purposes is no different than any other man-made Keyblade and the only thing that really sets it apart is the nature of its wielder.

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

but it's just a man made keyblade, and while it was ...kinda... destroyed, it wasn't explicit data Sora's. It just wasn't there when Xion turned into ice cream, and it might have been those blades she used in the boss battles, but those might just be part of the puppet? it's vague

but it's not like Riku destroyed it or any of the other people commenting on it did. What, outside of the possibility of it being destroyed which nobody saw, makes people define it as a sham? It just seems weird, given what we know now

It's a Replica. A sham in of itself according to the views of other characters.

 

Also: What?! o_O She became mere dust and a Sea-Shell. Even that disappeared after a while.

 

Also, it was destroyed. Pure and simply with Xion's death.

[hatok 6,413]

It's a Replica. A sham in of itself according to the views of other characters.

 

Also: What?! o_O She became mere dust and a Sea-Shell. Even that disappeared after a while.

 

Also, it was destroyed. Pure and simply with Xion's death.

It being a replica is something that we know from outside context, what do the characters think, and why do they think it in the context of the KH universe? At the very least, what tips Riku off to it being a sham?

 

It's basically failed symbolism. You know those "crystals" that form around Xion? The ones with the same texture as seal salt ice cream? That's what it was. It was probably meant to be poetic, or something, similar to the "Who will I eat ice cream with" line, but it comes off as goofy

 

Again, it being destroyed isn't the point here

[Dracozombie 4,554]

I took it to mean Riku thought that Xion's keyblade really isn't "hers," since she herself was fake and that she was was siphoning/copying the power from Roxas. Functionally, you're right, it doesn't seem to be different from anyone else's keyblades. Maybe it was the origin Riku was getting at. The artificiality probably isn't the same as the normal man-made keyblades, but it's hard to say since we don't know what exactly goes into keyblade manufacturing. (Now I'm picturing some sort of factory for mass keyblade production, complete with foreman holding a clipboard.)

[Vexen 73]

When Riku encountered Xion, he didn't know of anyone besides Sora who could use the Keyblade, did he? I always thought that the reason for him calling it a sham was because he didn't believe anyone else could be able to wield a real keyblade since Sora was "the keyblade's chosen one". Riku then saw someone else using it, and deemed it to be a sham.

[Neoshadow99 31]

Since when are all Keyblades "man-made"?  The Kingdom Key chose Sora to be its master instead of Riku, so Sora did not directly create it.  There was never any indication that Riku created his Soul Eater or when it became a Keyblade by transforming into Way to the Dawn.  It was never explicitly said that Terra, Ventus and Aqua personally forged their Keyblades, either.  The forging of these weapons only seems to happen in Item Synthesis with the Ultima Weapon and the creation system used in Chi.  How could the main characters make their Keyblades in the image of a weapon that they didn't even know existed, unlike the keybearers in the events of Chi?

[hatok 6,413]

Since when are all Keyblades "man-made"?  The Kingdom Key chose Sora to be its master instead of Riku, so Sora did not directly create it.  There was never any indication that Riku created his Soul Eater or when it became a Keyblade by transforming into Way to the Dawn.  It was never explicitly said that Terra, Ventus and Aqua personally forged their Keyblades, either.  The forging of these weapons only seems to happen in Item Synthesis with the Ultima Weapon and the creation system used in Chi.  How could the main characters make their Keyblades in the image of a weapon that they didn't even know existed, unlike the keybearers in the events of Chi?

it's kinda vague, but nobody forges the keyblades they actual wield in this series, but they ARE all man made. BBS and DDD both make reference to this. They're all failed copies of the X Blade. How people end up with keyblades they didn't make... I couldn't tell you. My best guess is that a keyblade chooses who gets it, and appears before them, but previously existed elsewhere

[Ephemera 37]

Since when are all Keyblades "man-made"?  The Kingdom Key chose Sora to be its master instead of Riku, so Sora did not directly create it.  There was never any indication that Riku created his Soul Eater or when it became a Keyblade by transforming into Way to the Dawn.  It was never explicitly said that Terra, Ventus and Aqua personally forged their Keyblades, either.  The forging of these weapons only seems to happen in Item Synthesis with the Ultima Weapon and the creation system used in Chi.  How could the main characters make their Keyblades in the image of a weapon that they didn't even know existed, unlike the keybearers in the events of Chi?

Keyblades have been confirmed manmade around Dream Drop Distance and Kingdom Hearts X. Riku used soul eater as a catalyst to summon the real thing. 

 

Its not to say that all keyblade wielders forged their own keyblades, but there was a time when people can create their own keyblade.

 

 

Something from the other topic

Back when Days was made, we were still under the impression that keyblades were in some way special

But they're not, they're just fancy, but man-made, swords

So knowing that... what makes Xion's keyblade a 'sham'?

I always had interpreted it as being a man made copy... but keyblades are man made

It's not any weaker than a normal keyblade. It can still change shape, it can still collect hearts

What about it defines it as a fake? I assume it can be destroyed, like Data Sora's keyblade? I dunno

but literally nothing we've seen makes this keyblade less valuable, though I'm curious when Riku became such an expert on the subject in the first place, now that I think about it

Xion's keyblade is a fake because its based on memories. She isn't actually summoning an actual keyblade. The memory allows her to create an artificial one. Which to the organization it was "real enough" due to still being able to collect hearts. Its completely different from physically creating a real keyblade not based on memories.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Ephemera

[hatok 6,413]

 

Keyblades have been confirmed manmade around Dream Drop Distance and Kingdom Hearts X

originally confirmed in BBS, actually, though I missed it my first time through

 

Riku used soul eater as a catalyst to summon the real thing. 

not confirmed, and seems unlikely considering Riku can still summon Soul Eater

 

Xion's keyblade is a fake because its based on memories. She isn't actually summoning an actual keyblade. The memory allows her to create an artificial one. Which to the organization it was "real enough" due to still being able to collect hearts. Its completely different from physically creating a real keyblade not based on memories.

but how does being based on memories impact the keyblade. if it's functionally the same as a normal keyblade... what's the downside? what makes it a sham. Again, I'm not talking about how we the viewers see it, or how the developers refer to it, but how the characters within the game world deem t to be so

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

 

not confirmed, and seems unlikely considering Riku can still summon Soul Eater

 

Actually it was confirmed by Nomura.

 

We found out that Riku’s Keyblade’s name is “Way to the Dawn” when examining his item slots after he joined your party. Is that Keyblade a transfigured version of Soul Eater?

I designed it with that image. Since Riku has always been using Soul Eater, he still calls it that even after it changed form. Keyblades aren’t something that you can obtain suddenly out of nowhere so in Riku’s case, his Soul Eater was used as an intermediary for that Keyblade.

 

 

 

 

 

but how does being based on memories impact the keyblade. if it's functionally the same as a normal keyblade... what's the downside? what makes it a sham. Again, I'm not talking about how we the viewers see it, or how the developers refer to it, but how the characters within the game world deem t to be so

Xion's Keyblade has all the functionality of a real Keyblade yes. However that functionality is solely reliant on her ability to siphon power from Roxas. She wasn't even able to summon her Keyblade at certain times because she was unable to draw enough power from Roxas. Without Roxas Xion's Keyblade doesn't even exist let alone function. Even the characters in the game can recognize the distinction between the two. 

[hatok 6,413]

Actually it was confirmed by Nomura.

 

We found out that Riku’s Keyblade’s name is “Way to the Dawn” when examining his item slots after he joined your party. Is that Keyblade a transfigured version of Soul Eater?

I designed it with that image. Since Riku has always been using Soul Eater, he still calls it that even after it changed form. Keyblades aren’t something that you can obtain suddenly out of nowhere so in Riku’s case, his Soul Eater was used as an intermediary for that Keyblade.

 

Xion's Keyblade has all the functionality of a real Keyblade yes. However that functionality is solely reliant on her ability to siphon power from Roxas. She wasn't even able to summon her Keyblade at certain times because she was unable to draw enough power from Roxas. Without Roxas Xion's Keyblade doesn't even exist let alone function. Even the characters in the game can recognize the distinction between the two. 

Ah, okay. Man Nomura really needs to stop explaining key stuff like this in interviews

 

Again, that works from an outsider's view

I highly doubt Riku saw the keyblade and thought "Hm... this must be created from the siphoned power and memories of Sora's Nobody"

granted, he might have, during his blindfold phase Riku seemed to know a LOT of stuff for no explored reason