KH3 really needs more NPCs and sidequests

[Dio Brando 5,810]

DISCLAIMER:Everything written here is just my own personal opinion,it is not a fact,it's not something you're forced to accept and it's not supposed to be something that you'd be forced to agreedisagree with.So please I don't wanna see comments of *Grrrr you're posing your opinion as a fact grrr* or any of those overdefensive comments I get on my threads ok?Good.

 

*Even though I know people won't read it and will go apeshit anyway*

 

 

So I was watching GameXplain's recent discussions about KH3 and SomeCallMeJohnny has brought up a great point (skip to 40:00)

 

 

Throughout the entire series with maybe the exception of 1 and 2,there has been little to no NPCs in the worlds we visit....not even in the ones based on Disney movies that has populated settings.......the really big offenders for me here are two worlds:Land of the Dragons in KH2 and La Cite do Cloche in Dream Drop Distance

 

aside from the huge firetruck up with Shan Yu's army at the mountain battle scene,when you get to the capital it's almost completely empty even though at that point in the movie it was FILLED WITH PEOPLE CELEBRATING THE VICTORY OF THE CHINESE ARMY AGAINST THE HUNS!?Even the area around the palace was filled to the brim with people in the movie,sure I understand it being empty on the second visit but on the first visit,in which you relive an abridged version the events of the movie,why is it that empty?

 

And then there is La Cite de Cloche,I won't spend time ranting about how Frollo should've been the boss battle of that world but,for a city that was very populated in the movie Hunchback of Notre Dame.....IT'S COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY EMPTY....yes I know the entire game is empty but it's specifically jarring here especially near the end of that world's visit

 

One of my wishes in KH3 is that.........I want more NPCs,I want more people to interact with and talk to,I hope they just won't stick to only the main heroesvillains of the movies and give you the chance to talk to other characters too and not just in cutscenes

 

I also hope that they'd implement more sidequests....and no I don't mean the usual post game content in the Final Mix versions,I mean taking missions outside from your main questgummi ship missions where you can maybe take a request from a character in one of the worlds where they ask you to bring something,find someone or help them solving a problem,this helps when it comes to (world building) especially if those characters tell you more about their lives or their world,it'll add more to the immersion especially if you're taking the quest from a Disney character,where you can learn more about the characters of your favorite disney movies,or from a Final Fantasy character especially ones like LeonSquall or Cloud so we can find out more about their lives and origins here and how it differs from their original stories in the FF series

 

I wanna know more about who I'm saving and know why should the player care to save them from Xehanort and his new Organization XIII.

 

And lastly,when it comes to RPGs,I'm one of those who like to do more stuff in the game's world outside of fighting cuz,y'know,I'm spending 30+ hours of my life on a game especially if the story is the main focus here,this is Kingdom Heart it shouldn't turn into,which is what pretty much all of what the handheld entries are,Devil May Cry:Walt Disney Edition

 

 

It'll be amazing if the worlds in KH3 are more populated with NPCs and people to talk to especially in the new upcoming Disney Worlds

[Klonoa the Dream Traveler 678]

Then KH3 will have annoying NPC roadblocks like Pokemon. "You can't pass here because I'm looking for my camera." 

Or better yet, this kind of NPC roadblock: 

I however, agree with the Sidequests. We need more Sidequests. But I don't want to be forced to do Sidequests due to a lot of them.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Klonoa the Dream Traveler

[Dio Brando 5,810]

 

Then KH3 will have annoying NPC roadblocks like Pokemon. "You can't pass here because I'm looking for my camera." 

Or better yet, this kind of NPC roadblock: 

I however, agree with the Sidequests. We need more Sidequests. But I don't want to be forced to do Sidequests due to a lot of them.

 

Not that kind dude,I mean what you find in almost every single RPG,NPCs that you find in town

 

Also,they're called "side"quests for a reason,you're not forced to do them,the only RPG in the world that makes them forced on the player is Lightning Returns FFXIII

Edited July 22, 2015 by Smash Mega Koopa

[Psychic_Ketchup 367]

I completely agree; I like sidequests, even if they're just 'collect ten bear-asses and bring them to me for munny'.

And with this gen's processing power, they don't have that excuse anymore.

[WakelessDream 2,282]

Sidequests can be fun so I'm all for a couple more of those.

 

As for populating the worlds with more NPCs I wouldn't mind that either. They feel so empty and lifeless without them, it's kinda depressing. I'm not saying they should crowd the worlds with NPCs but going beyond the main cast of the worlds, even just a little bit  would be nice for a change. 

[jadentheman 72]

Since this game is gonna be open world-ish, meaning vast and wider than even DDD layouts, then yeah there gonna have to populate it with some NPCs or it's just gonna be vast land and that wouldn't fly in today's games.

[hatok 6,413]

I've had to say this so many times but

the problem with addings lots of NPCs isn't a processing power one

it's just plain too much effort to make dozens of character designs for each individual world

It's already harder than usual to make models because they're Disney designs, rather than a basic human model that can be mapped to any other person

[Komali 594]

More NPCs, yes. I would like to see them in areas, where enemies appear and they are scared and run away.

Sidequests? Problematic. I don't like the typical sidequest design the games have today (collect xy or something). But I don't deny them.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

I've had to say this so many times but

the problem with addings lots of NPCs isn't a processing power one

it's just plain too much effort to make dozens of character designs for each individual world

It's already harder than usual to make models because they're Disney designs, rather than a basic human model that can be mapped to any other person

 

 

You mean to tell me that games on weaker system like FF12 on Ps2 can handle NPCs but the next gen game can't?

for example: FFXV, Witcher etc.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Shana09

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

I've had to say this so many times but

the problem with addings lots of NPCs isn't a processing power one

it's just plain too much effort to make dozens of character designs for each individual world

It's already harder than usual to make models because they're Disney designs, rather than a basic human model that can be mapped to any other person

 

It would depend on the world. Obviously, for some places like Beast's Castle or Space Paranoids, it kinda makes perfect sense that you wouldn't see any people just wandering around, but for the obvious ones like Agrabah, Port Royal, La Cite Des Cloches, places where the movies clearly show huge amounts of people in the places we're playing through in game, then it's a glaring issue. I mean, firetruck, even background work like filling in the stadium at Olympus Coliseum even though we can already hear them is missing. It's ridiculous.

 

And if SE's reason really is "it's too hard/too much work" then they're being lazy and we as fans shouldn't be okay with it. If it's "too hard" for some programmers/designers/whoever then maybe they shouldn't be working on a highly anticipated game published by a AAA developer.

Edited July 22, 2015 by HeyMouseSayCheese

[Dio Brando 5,810]

It would depend on the world. Obviously, for some places like Beast's Castle or Space Paranoids, it kinda makes perfect sense that you wouldn't see any people just wandering around, but for the obvious ones like Agrabah, Port Royal, La Cite Des Cloches, places where the movies clearly show huge amounts of people in the places we're playing through in game, then it's a glaring issue. I mean, firetruck, even background work like filling in the stadium at Olympus Coliseum even though we can already hear them is missing. It's ridiculous.

 

And if SE's reason really is "it's too hard/too much work" then they're being lazy and we as fans shouldn't be okay with it. If it's "too hard" for some programmers/designers/whoever then maybe they shouldn't be working on a highly anticipated game published by a AAA developer.

That's what I've been saying the whole time 

 

Especially in Agrabah when Aladdin clearly stated it's full of people even though you see NONE OF THEM

Edited July 22, 2015 by Smash Mega Koopa

[hatok 6,413]

 

You mean to tell me that games on weaker system like FF12 on Ps2 can handle NPCs but the next gen game can't?

for example: FFXV, Witcher etc.

Did you read my post? I literally said it's not about processing power

It's right there

I said it

Yeah The Witcher and FF15 have lots of NPCs, but that's because they can use a generic human model. They don't have to worry about the aesthetic matching Tangled, or Frozen, or The Princess and the frog, or Tron, or Aladdin. THAT'S what holds NPCs back in KH. They take way more design effort than a normal NPC. If KH games had fewer worlds they could do it, but KH3 has more worlds than KH2

 

It would depend on the world. Obviously, for some places like Beast's Castle or Space Paranoids, it kinda makes perfect sense that you wouldn't see any people just wandering around, but for the obvious ones like Agrabah, Port Royal, La Cite Des Cloches, places where the movies clearly show huge amounts of people in the places we're playing through in game, then it's a glaring issue. I mean, firetruck, even background work like filling in the stadium at Olympus Coliseum even though we can already hear them is missing. It's ridiculous.

 

And if SE's reason really is "it's too hard/too much work" then they're being lazy and we as fans shouldn't be okay with it. If it's "too hard" for some programmers/designers/whoever then maybe they shouldn't be working on a highly anticipated game published by a AAA developer.

I'm not pretending the NPC isn't a problem. it's jsut one that doesn't currently have a solution, unless Square half asses it, or I greatly underestimated their budget.

Like I said earlier, and many times before, creating DISNEY NPCs is different from making just any NPC

They have drastically different body types, each world has different looking types of people. It's not a matter of being lazy, it's just something that would be near impossible to do right unless they found a really easy way to make a wide variety of unique models with low effort

Edited July 22, 2015 by Shana09

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Did you read my post? I literally said it's not about processing power

It's right there

I said it

Yeah The Witcher and FF15 have lots of NPCs, but that's because they can use a generic human model. They don't have to worry about the aesthetic matching Tangled, or Frozen, or The Princess and the frog, or Tron, or Aladdin. THAT'S what holds NPCs back in KH. They take way more design effort than a normal NPC. If KH games had fewer worlds they could do it, but KH3 has more worlds than KH2

 

I'm not pretending the NPC isn't a problem. it's jsut one that doesn't currently have a solution, unless Square half asses it, or I greatly underestimated their budget.

Like I said earlier, and many times before, creating DISNEY NPCs is different from making just any NPC

They have drastically different body types, each world has different looking types of people. It's not a matter of being lazy, it's just something that would be near impossible to do right unless they found a really easy way to make a wide variety of unique models with low effort

Again,you don't have to make every model unique even if it's Disney,you can't tell me that movies like Mulan and Hunchback of Notre Dome didn't have their share of duplicate  models for the crowd.Anyone with the right mind would have separate designs for the main cast while the generic crowd,even in hand-drawn or CG movies,have duplicate designs that has veeeeeery small differences.You can do this in KH with not much of an issue in fact it won't take much since KH isn't as expansive as a regular open world RPG like the Witcher 3

 

If it's "nyaaa it's too hard or it takes so much time"....then why hire people who can't work on a AAA title?It's not as impossible as you say and if Final Fantasy XV can do it,which Nomura also worked on before he was replaced by Tabata,why can't Kingdom Hearts do it?

 

In fact,now that I look at the old FFXV trailers when it was still Versus XIII,those trailers seemed empty when Nomura was in charge and it was only in the new ones(when Tabata became in charge) that we saw actual people to talk to.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Smash Mega Koopa

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Did you read my post? I literally said it's not about processing power

It's right there

I said it

Yeah The Witcher and FF15 have lots of NPCs, but that's because they can use a generic human model. They don't have to worry about the aesthetic matching Tangled, or Frozen, or The Princess and the frog, or Tron, or Aladdin. THAT'S what holds NPCs back in KH. They take way more design effort than a normal NPC. If KH games had fewer worlds they could do it, but KH3 has more worlds than KH2

 

I'm not pretending the NPC isn't a problem. it's jsut one that doesn't currently have a solution, unless Square half asses it, or I greatly underestimated their budget.

Like I said earlier, and many times before, creating DISNEY NPCs is different from making just any NPC

They have drastically different body types, each world has different looking types of people. It's not a matter of being lazy, it's just something that would be near impossible to do right unless they found a really easy way to make a wide variety of unique models with low effort

 

I get your point, but I don't think it's an inordinate amount of money and effort to design just a few NPCs per world )and that's even assuming you'd need to do it for each world- Tangled and Frozen have the same artstyle, for example, so they can reuse human models there. Who knows what other similar movies they're going to have). Also, they've reused them before back in KH1 when you get Traverse Town people showing up in Agrabah for a short time. It's not like they have to match perfectly for the movie, just enough to make worlds not look dead. It doesn't seem like an issue they should just gloss over due to budget or whatever.

 

If it's "nyaaa it's too hard or it takes so much time"....then why hire people who can't work on a AAA title?It's not as impossible as you say and if Final Fantasy XV can do it,which Nomura also worked on before he was replaced by Tabata,why can't Kingdom Hearts do it?

 

I mean, I understand why SE would be reluctant to put in the same amount of effort as they put in a main FF game; KH isn't nearly as popular or profitable. That said, I do still agree, they should be doing it whether or not it's hard because that's what'll help make a more quality product.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

KH3 really needs more of everything in general. More story, more fun, more sidequests, more new, more everything! Bring on the MMMMOOOOOOAAARRRRRRR!!!!!!

[Dio Brando 5,810]

I get your point, but I don't think it's an inordinate amount of money and effort to design just a few NPCs per world )and that's even assuming you'd need to do it for each world- Tangled and Frozen have the same artstyle, for example, so they can reuse human models there. Who knows what other similar movies they're going to have). Also, they've reused them before back in KH1 when you get Traverse Town people showing up in Agrabah for a short time. It's not like they have to match perfectly for the movie, just enough to make worlds not look dead. It doesn't seem like an issue they should just gloss over due to budget or whatever.

 

 

I mean, I understand why SE would be reluctant to put in the same amount of effort as they put in a main FF game; KH isn't nearly as popular or profitable. That said, I do still agree, they should be doing it whether or not it's hard because that's what'll help make a more quality product.

I get that FF is their flagship franchise and more effort and budget will be poured into it,but that isn't an excuse to not put the same effort into a GINORMOUS "CROSSOVER"(I say in quotes cuz they're not taking advantage of the source materials compared to other crossovers) in which the main entries alone sold 6+ million copies each,with the handheld entires selling decently,they have no excuse

 

It's their third biggest franchise next to Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest

[Shulk 8,623]

I know that NPCs are a topic commonly brought up in regards to KHIII, and I do agree that we need to see more characters filling the worlds, but more sidequests is something I'd possibly be even more interested in. Something to give me a reason to explore, talk to new people, and in general, spend more time in the game without just walking along the same old path. It doesn't need to have 400-500 quests like some other recent RPGs, but a decent amount of sidequests would be fantastic. Re:Coded seemed to try that out, and while it wasn't the best implementation, it was a good start. Considering that some of Square's older games have had sidequests that gave more insight on the world and remained fun and worthwhile, I'm sure it's something they could pull off for Kingdom Hearts III. Honestly, hearing something along the lines of more exploration, or simply more to do in the world than just walk in a big empty space with a few Heartless would probably make me really excited for the game again. The games have all been relatively straightforward so far, and adding something to give players more to do that's not just a few boss battles at the end of the game would make it a lot more fun.

[DragonMaster 1,166]

I never really noticed the lack of life in KH's worlds until I played DDD. Each world was just so devoid of any signs of actual inhabitants that they all just felt, soulless. I loved the gameplay of DDD, but I hardly touch it anymore because it just feels so empty. And then I played BbS. Yes, lets go to the ball! Hey look, there's only five people here in this giant room! But we're sure going to pretend this is a big huge event! I just couldn't take it.

 

I don't care if every NPC they add is completely pointless and has bland dialogue, just put them there. Put the effort in, take the time to make those pointless NPCs, do the work to make NPCs that suit the style of each world. It will add so much life to the worlds by virtue of making them look like more than empty towns and fields.

 

I'm cool either way with side quests. I've had tons of fun with each KH game without any sidequests, but I wouldn't be opposed to having them.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

I never really noticed the lack of life in KH's worlds until I played DDD. Each world was just so devoid of any signs of actual inhabitants that they all just felt, soulless. I loved the gameplay of DDD, but I hardly touch it anymore because it just feels so empty. And then I played BbS. Yes, lets go to the ball! Hey look, there's only five people here in this giant room! But we're sure going to pretend this is a big huge event! I just couldn't take it.

 

I don't care if every NPC they add is completely pointless and has bland dialogue, just put them there. Put the effort in, take the time to make those pointless NPCs, do the work to make NPCs that suit the style of each world. It will add so much life to the worlds by virtue of making them look like more than empty towns and fields.

 

I'm cool either way with side quests. I've had tons of fun with each KH game without any sidequests, but I wouldn't be opposed to having them.

Exactly

 

And to be honest they're not entirely pointless,they add to the immersion,make you feel that you're actually interacting with people from other worldsplaces,makes you feel like a hero when you save the day and here that *insert a name here* is happy....etc,which is a better feeling that:Oh......I saved this little flower here from big bad Xehanort or I saved this clearly empty city of Agrabah from Jafar.

 

This is an RPG and NPCs should be a given at this point not a feature that need to be begged for to be added.While I like DDD,I have to admit that both it and BBS feel like as if they're Devil May Cry:Walt Disney Edition stretched to 30 hours instead of DMC's usual 10

[Sora96 17,256]

Completely agree, there is no excuses anymore. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

I agree with what you're saying, Smash!  I think that Kingdom Hearts III should indeed have more NPC's around and about the various different worlds we'll visit, and it'd be great if there were more side quests to tackle as well!

 

I think that one of the best examples of a populated world is Twilight Town in Kingdom Hearts II!  In almost every section of that world we visit, there are NPC's walking around the streets, and they were present in the side missions and Struggle Battle sequences, which made being in Twilight Town a more immersed experience! Hopefully,we'll see more NPC's and side quests in Kingdom Hearts III!

[Nero Kunivas 3,046]

More NPC's and Sidequests is the way forward of KH3 among other things.

 

I completely agree with you on this, Smash. And if their reason is because it's too hard or too much effort, then that's just being lazy, they're flippin' Square-Enix for crying out loud! They can do it! Hell, FFXV seems to be teeming with so much life the game almost has a pulse!

 

And side content can be quite a benefit too! Perhaps even a few unique Side-Quests that have small cutscenes or have some importance or something! Just, anything!

 

Kingdom Hearts III needs this. It really does.

 

On a side note: NPCs and interesting Side-Characters would give you motivation to protect them because they're interesting, they're people, they have lives and they actually exist.

[Guest]

The Kingdom Hearts team should learn from Xenoblade Chronicles on how to create NPC characters that provide enjoyable side quests. I mean, Imagine the diversity of NPC characters from each and every Disney world!

[Master Eraqus 1,340]

YES. THANK YOU! NPC's are a MUST for Kingdom Hearts 3. Throughout the entire series  we've had so many worlds that were empty and instead should have been filled with people. The best examples of these are La Cite Des Cloches, Agrabah (Aladdin: "The action, the people..." Me: "What people!?"), Olympus Coliseum (I'm looking at you invisible crowd) and The Land of Dragons. There have been worlds that are empty for obvious reasons, such as The End of the World and The Keyblade Graveyard, but here's the thing: These worlds should feel empty and they do that, but I just realised that they don't stick out that much for their emptiness cause they are just as empty as most of the worlds in the series. As SomeCallMeJohnny stated in one of the parts of his KH2 playthrough on his Let's Play channel, we need to see how the Heartless and other enemies are a threat, we need to see them wreak havoc on the worlds and their inhabitants so we are given a duty and know that stakes are high and we have to protect these people from the main threat of this entire series.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Master Eraqus

[NoWay 63]

It would be really cool to see how NPCs are trying to escape from attacking Heartless/Nobodies/Unversed or how they actually attack NPCs and try to turn them into Heartless. That would be interesting.

It would have an absolutely new feeling if you would actually see how NPCs turn in front of you into Heartless which then are attacking you

Edited July 24, 2015 by NoWay