FFvXIII/FFXV is and always was a mess, but I still have hope for it.

[NemesisSP 160]

UPDATED EDITS: I decided to do some grammar checking and adding some additional points that I missed. Hopefully my intentions with the article are clearer now. 

 

My first topic starter here, well I wanted to start being more active in the fanbase, so might as well start here. And what better than to start with something that has been on my wish list for almost a decade and the mixed feelings I have had for it's development.

 

When Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced, I know a lot of us were excited for it and were impatient to know more. After all, it's teaser trailer showed us some impressive visuals, an interesting story set up with lots of Shakespearean influence to it. And as we learned more about the game we became more impatient.

 

But now, years later the game is finally, truly, on it's way and many are not happy about this. Why? Mostly because the game and the company behind it broke a lot of promises concerning it. Promises that they said were going to be kept no matter what, but alas, were not to be.

 

It's true that this game has been kept in vaporware for too long. It's true that Nomura and SE refused to comment on it as much as they could. And it's true that Tabata has had to pick up the pieces of what is a huge mismanagement of what was potentially the best FF game ever. But the question is.... why? Why and how did it come to this?

 

I think it was perhaps too ambitious for the company at the time it was released. I don't think Square Enix truly gave this game the development time it deserved while it was Versus XIII. From what I've heard, it kept getting delayed in favor of other projects, similar to what happened with Final Fantasy Agito XIII and how it was stalled in favor of The 3rd Birthday. And Nomura is the head of the Kingdom Hearts series and thus is very busy there. And we know that developers for the game were brought over to help XIII's production. And the engine that would be used for the game took too long to make. 

 

But why, when the TGS 2011 trailer was revealed and the gameplay was well received did Square Enix change it? Fully controllable party members and the ability to pilot magitek armor and tanks gone and traditional menus removed for a more automated approach that, while fine in its own right, just seems so very different than what was promised. Tabata has said that this was because he felt he was too old for the original gameplay to play it properly and wanted it more casual, but is that a good enough reason to uproot an entire battle system that had a positive response? I know there will always be purists who wished for it to be turn-based, but it does feel unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. The original gameplay looked great and was well received. However, not a lot of people talk about that aspect.

 

And of course, the removal of key elements within the original story, despite Nomura promising the story was intact. Tabata seems to be doing the best he can, but the removal of Stella due to not knowing how she fit in to the game does send some warning signs and not caring to just rewrite her a bit along with the rest of the game doesn't look good. But let's be completely fair to him. He's not doing this out of malicious intent, but simply trying to put together a game that the old management kept screwing over.

 

However, I do think it's also unfair to place the blame on Nomura. After all, he's just another game developer who has a lot of projects he's involved with, being a lead character designer and director for an entire spinoff series. So whose fault is it really that the game has had such a troubled production? The original management, who kept delaying the game? Nomura for having too grand a vision? Tabata for uplifting the games production yet again it was finally fully in development? Honestly, I think everyone can share the blame, but at the same time I don't want this to be mistaken as an entirely negative article.

 

Despite the changes to gameplay and story, I've played the demo (both the original and the updated version) and it is a good demo despite the fact that I think it would have been more prudent to reintroduce us to major supporting characters and the invasion and thus the plot itself instead of what amounts to just a lot of meandering about a very large area for three hours. And that's the big problem, we were promised more information along with the game and basically just got an area that doesn't seem like it's going to advance the plot any. And yet it's taken us until now to learn about the removal of the original games heroine. That's still very poor management and I would have hoped that Tabata had just been honest with us from the start or at least asked us what we really would have wanted to see instead. :|

 

I digress though, because despite this I still have hope for the game. It is beautiful, the music amazing and the characters are extremely entertaining and likeable. I do appreciate how much Noctis and his friends feel like real friends just camping out while hunting monsters for money. And if the story is focused on that then that's good. And I do hope that Luna is a good character in her own right and I think that Stella isn't dead, but just waiting for a chance to have her own game like several other characters in the past have. We still don't know a lot about the game and we should give it a chance even if we have all of those broken promises.

 

Because I do think that Tabata does understand that we want this game and is trying his hardest to finish it for us. If you guys really want Stella back (and I truly doubt it'll work, but no harm trying), maybe you guys should explain why she was important to begin with. Tabata does listen to us after all, just look at the updated Duscae for proof of that. But for me, I do think it would probably be unfeasible to uplift the game yet again just to get the original heroine back. And yeah, Stella was important to a lot of us, including me. In fact, her scene with Noctis helped inspire the dynamic between the hero and heroine of my own story that I've been working on. So I do completely understand why people are upset by her removal and replacement. We did become invested in her and no matter what, it's still important to remember that she did inspire fans and did indeed have more than enough information out about her to make us care about her.

 

If you agree with this or think I am cutting them too much slack, please free to say so. I see so many fans point out how much the game sucks or how much happier they are with it that I think it's good to just take a most neutral look at it.

Edited June 17, 2015 by NemesisSP

[Snow 1,800]

Hey man, nice thread. Don't worry about going too in-depth, if you don't get much feedback that just means people don't want to take the time to read long posts, and many users here are more interested in KH anyway.To be honest, I was never too concerned with FFvXIII. I saw some trailers, knew some hyped friends, heard a lot about it, but it didn't really stick out to me. In fact, from what I do know about it, the only thing better about FFvXIII at this point is Noctis' appearance. I don't know who the heck Stella is, but she must have been important to vXIII for people to be this upset over her. I never knew about Stella, and to be fair I don't think anybody else really did because she wasn't ever a fleshed out character, just seen in trailers and such. I really don't blame Tabata for changing what he is. He's got an idea and he's working with it, that shows promise to me enough. It doesn't mean to me that he doesn't know how to work a certain character into the plot, it means that he feels Luna is a fitting name and the changes made to the character fit better than the original concept. People really should have seen these changes coming when the name changed from vXIII to XV, because now it's a different game, and a different game has different characters.

[NemesisSP 160]

Thanks.

 

To me, it's more that the mismanagement is what killed the game, not Tabata. I think he's just trying to pick up the pieces, as I said. We don't really know why Nomura left, but I don't think we can truly say that it's for the best till the game is out. If people don't like the changes, that's fine, it's more that the reasoning behind the changes that's got a lot of people angry.

 

And as I said, we did know enough about her that we got invested in her. There was an entire gameplay video that showed off her and Noctis' dynamic, so we had an idea of what she was like. People saying she had little appearance seem to forget that.

[Snow 1,800]

Thanks.

 

To me, it's more that the mismanagement is what killed the game, not Tabata. I think he's just trying to pick up the pieces, as I said. We don't really know why Nomura left, but I don't think we can truly say that it's for the best till the game is out. If people don't like the changes, that's fine, it's more that the reasoning behind the changes that's got a lot of people angry.

 

And as I said, we did know enough about her that we got invested in her. There was an entire gameplay video that showed off her and Noctis' dynamic, so we had an idea of what she was like. People saying she had little appearance seem to forget that.

If she had that much importance to vXIII, I can see where people would get upset. But it's not really vXIII anymore, different name, different director, different time. Maybe all Tabata did change was the name and the Stella people knew is largely intact? I could be wrong since as I said before I wasn't big on vXIII.

[NemesisSP 160]

He mentioned her being re-envisioned, so yes she probably has some important aspects still intact, though her role is the story is completely different to what it was before.

 

It's also more that a lot of people do see it as Tabata taking a game that wasn't his concept and mutating it into something else, if that's what I think a lot of fans believe. Again, I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt on this, because until SE shows us exactly what Stella's story was (probably won't until after the game is released), we can only the speculate.

 

Of course, Tabata hasn't helped himself out concerning this. He has made many comments that have upset fans, as I mentioned in the comments he admitted to changing the gameplay for a very terrible reason. IE, thinking more about what he would want to play instead of what everyone might want to play.

 

EDIT: Though, what he actually said on that was that he wanted to make sure the game could appeal to casual gamers while still having the level of depth to it. Fans being fans, the intended message is not always what fans hear.

Edited June 17, 2015 by NemesisSP

[catmaster0116 2,676]

Mmm I haven't played the demo, but I do have a sense that it is frustrating to you and so many other fans who have waited loyally for the game to be completed and presented in due time.

 

The game designers of Square Enix are after all human, and I feel that they utilised the experiences of trial and error during the production of FFXV (formerly FFvsXIII) as stepping stones to produce and develop Kingdom Hearts 3 as well as other titles

 

The removal of Stella and gameplay certain aspects was indeed frustrating, but who knows what they're thinking? We'll just have to wait and see...

[NemesisSP 160]

Mmm I haven't played the demo, but I do have a sense that it is frustrating to you and so many other fans who have waited loyally for the game to be completed and presented in due time.

 

The game designers of Square Enix are after all human, and I feel that they utilised the experiences of trial and error during the production of FFXV (formerly FFvsXIII) as stepping stones to produce and develop Kingdom Hearts 3 as well as other titles

 

The removal of Stella and gameplay certain aspects was indeed frustrating, but who knows what they're thinking? We'll just have to wait and see...

 

It is rather frustrating and hopefully we'll eventually know the full reason behind.

 

But as I mentioned, I do think it's unfair to try and play the blame game when so much of this games development still remains a mystery.

[Setrex 1,031]

Interesting points. I completely agree too.

 

I was one of those disappointed with the demo, mostly because I found Noctis and co terrible to control, the party members were better at dying than fighting and I thought the enemies were too aggressive and in large mobs. While I understand these complaints make me sound like I was a noob at the combat or something, but it was a real issue with me enjoying my experience. If the gameplay isn't fun or at least fair then I shouldn't shrug it off as me just being terrible, I'm glad that these complaints were addressed in the survey too. I should note I haven't played the updated demo yet, but I'll get a chance sometime this week.

 

I was looking forward to gameplay like the TGS 2011 trailer and I even loved the trailers leading up to the game, but the demo made my hype levels drop a little bit. I'll wait until Gamescom too see their new vision and I don't absolutely hate what XV is like now rather than what Versus was, but I really need to see a game that looks like I can enjoy it without forcing myself through floaty combat and stuff trying to kill me every second.

[NemesisSP 160]

Interesting points. I completely agree too.I was one of those disappointed with the demo, mostly because I found Noctis and co terrible to control, the party members were better at dying than fighting and I thought the enemies were too aggressive and in large mobs. While I understand these complaints make me sound like I was a noob at the combat or something, but it was a real issue with me enjoying my experience. If the gameplay isn't fun or at least fair then I shouldn't shrug it off as me just being terrible, I'm glad that these complaints were addressed in the survey too. I should note I haven't played the updated demo yet, but I'll get a chance sometime this week.I was looking forward to gameplay like the TGS 2011 trailer and I even loved the trailers leading up to the game, but the demo made my hype levels drop a little bit. I'll wait until Gamescom too see their new vision and I don't absolutely hate what XV is like now rather than what Versus was, but I really need to see a game that looks like I can enjoy it without forcing myself through floaty combat and stuff trying to kill me every second.

 

 

It's about all we can do. I still believe that Tabata can pull it off, I just hope that he doesn't come to regret simplifying the story and gameplay when SE wants to continue with the games universe like they planned to in the first place.