KH2 sora crys when he go to to tower

[Sorarocks93 678]

if he knew they were fake, and viewed them as such, he wouldn't have an emotional attachment

as with most things, the problem is 358/2 Days

Taken on its basic merits in KH2, we can assume it's just a bleed over from Roxas' fake memories making Sora feel that way. But Days comes in and gives Roxas a REAL interaction with the gang, which should supersede his fake memories once regained

But that's just it, he didn't know they were fake until the very last minute. Then he knew that since this was a virtual TT there is a real one out there with real people. And since this is KH their hearts are connected anyway, as shown when Hayner asks Sora if they ever met before.

[Dracozombie 4,554]

he doesn't need to know how computers work. he could think it's a world, and it change dhis memories through magic, smashing it still means destroying the world

 

I didn't really do any interpretation

 

Meaning, there's only one true way to read into a situation, and anyone who doesn't draw the same conclusion is wrong and must be educated otherwise? Gee, that's not in the spirit of being a fan. In fact, I'd go so far as to say this is the scent of the (dun dun dun!) ... true fan. You're not a true fan, are you hatok? You don't Wanna be That Guy. Even if we rarely agree on things, I always thought you were, well... above that mindset. I'm actually a little disappointed. A little sympathetic, too, because I used to fall into that trap. There are multiple ways to view what's happening, even if we think there's only one proper way. It can bug the crap out of me because I don't agree with it, but I've learned it's better to just let folks interpret things as they wish, because who's necessarily correct? That's why I tried to just let things drop and let you have your own viewpoint, but when you insist that only one way is correct...

 

Look, from a purely intellectual standpoint I understand where you're coming from. When you brought this up I went, "Huh, I never considered that." But even if I can agree intellectually, I just can't in all seriousness abide by that viewpoint as the one I use it to fuel my perception of the character. There's a reason I never considered it until you brought it up. The fate of Digital Twilight Town never crossed my mind, not once, and I honestly don't know anyone else who also considered it. I can't speak for the rest of us, but the most I gathered from Roxas bashing the computer is:

 

-Roxas just found out everything is a lie.

-Sometimes people break things when they're pissed.

-Roxas is pissed.

-He has a weapon.

-Apply weapon to thing in front of him, in this case the computer.

-Finish venting, proceed with plot.

 

Is it shallow? Sure, I guess you an argue that. But that's all I need to understand what's going on. I don't need to read into the implication of what'd have happened if that computer were real. Because honestly? I don't care. DTT is a vague consideration in my eyes, so far removed from what I take as the point of the scene that it doesn't even warrant my attention. Call it willful ignorance if you wish. Maybe it is. But all things considered, I'm pretty content as a fan. As I said before, I'd rather just enjoy the ride.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Dracozombie

[hatok 6,413]

But that's just it, he didn't know they were fake until the very last minute. Then he knew that since this was a virtual TT there is a real one out there with real people. And since this is KH their hearts are connected anyway, as shown when Hayner asks Sora if they ever met before.

Exactly, he didn't know it was fake, so as far as he was concerned, destroying it would destroy everything. Luckily for him it was fake, or he'd have digital blood on his hands

 

Meaning, there's only one true way to read into a situation, and anyone who doesn't draw the same conclusion is wrong and must be educated otherwise? Gee, that's not in the spirit of being a fan. In fact, I'd go so far as to say this is the scent of the (dun dun dun!) ... true fan. You're not a true fan, are you hatok? You don't Wanna be That Guy. Even if we rarely agree on things, I always thought you were, well... above that mindset. I'm actually a little disappointed. A little sympathetic, too, because I used to fall into that trap. There are multiple ways to view what's happening, even if we think there's only one proper way. It can bug the crap out of me because I don't agree with it, but I've learned it's better to just let folks interpret things as they wish, because who's necessarily correct? That's why I tried to just let things drop and let you have your own viewpoint, but when you insist that only one way is correct...

 

Look, from a purely intellectual standpoint I understand where you're coming from. When you brought this up I went, "Huh, I never considered that." But even if I can agree intellectually, I just can't in all seriousness abide by that viewpoint as the one I use it to fuel my perception of the character. There's a reason I never considered it until you brought it up. The fate of Digital Twilight Town never crossed my mind, not once, and I honestly don't know anyone else who also considered it. I can't speak for the rest of us, but the most I gathered from Roxas bashing the computer is:

 

-Roxas just found out everything is a lie.

-Sometimes people break things when they're pissed.

-Roxas is pissed.

-He has a weapon.

-Apply weapon to thing in front of him, in this case the computer.

-Finish venting, proceed with plot.

 

Is it shallow? Sure, I guess you an argue that. But that's all I need to understand what's going on. I don't need to read into the implication of what'd have happened if that computer were real. Because honestly? I don't care. DTT is a vague consideration in my eyes, so far removed from what I take as the point of the scene that it doesn't even warrant my attention. Call it willful ignorance if you wish. Maybe it is. But all things considered, I'm pretty content as a fan. As I said before, I'd rather just enjoy the ride.

what are you rambling about

[Dracozombie 4,554]

Exactly, he didn't know it was fake, so as far as he was concerned, destroying it would destroy everything. Luckily for him it was fake, or he'd have digital blood on his hands

 

what are you rambling about

 

Hippie liberal arts major douche-type stuff. tl;dr not everyone feels the need to read into certain implications to take what they need from a scene. I took what I need, and I'm throwing you a bone by letting you take what you want. Just don't try to assume you're the only one who's correct.

[hatok 6,413]

Hippie liberal arts major douche-type stuff. tl;dr not everyone feels the need to read into certain implications to take what they need from a scene. I took what I need, and I'm throwing you a bone by letting you take what you want. Just don't try to assume you're the only one who's correct.

stop being a liberal arts major and reading into what I say

[Sorarocks93 678]

Exactly, he didn't know it was fake, so as far as he was concerned, destroying it would destroy everything. Luckily for him it was fake, or he'd have digital blood on his hands

 

 

Well anyway, the point still stands. He does infact care for the gang.

[Dracozombie 4,554]

stop being a liberal arts major and reading into what I say

 

Too late. Already graduated, and there's no going back. Interestingly enough, it seems like there's little middle ground for us between ABSOLUTE TRUTH and 'Aww, everyone's right in their own way, just live and let live.' Quoth a good representation:

 

[hatok 6,413]

Too late. Already graduated, and there's no going back. Interestingly enough, it seems like there's little middle ground for us between ABSOLUTE TRUTH and 'Aww, everyone's right in their own way, just live and let live.' Quoth a good representation:

 

well I don't assume I'm right, I just defend my points

there are right and wrong perspectives in the real world, just not as many as people think

[Dracozombie 4,554]

well I don't assume I'm right, I just defend my points

there are right and wrong perspectives in the real world, just not as many as people think

 

That's true but things get muddled when we're talking about fiction, which is untrue and so inherently subjective. The aforementioned liberal douche arts major showed me that there's no point in thinking in terms of "right" or "wrong" when it comes to stories. There's only "what you think" and "what evidence you have to back your viewpoint up," which we both revealed.

[hatok 6,413]

That's true but things get muddled when we're talking about fiction, which is untrue and so inherently subjective. The aforementioned liberal douche arts major showed me that there's no point in thinking in terms of "right" or "wrong" when it comes to stories. There's only "what you think" and "what evidence you have to back your viewpoint up," which we both revealed.

fiction still has internal rules and logic that inform a correct and incorrect assessment

[Dracozombie 4,554]

fiction still has internal rules and logic that inform a correct and incorrect assessment

 

Kingdom Hearts's rules change every game.

 

The fate of Digital Twilight Town rarely crosses my mind, not even in the scene in question, and it doesn't bother me. No, I can't really say you're incorrect. You're probably right.

 

But! I'm ignoring it anyway.

 

Yeah yeah willful ignorance and all that, but I don't think I'm better off for having that knowledge. We're talking about having fun with a game, and if it means covering my eyes and ears and singing la la la la really loudly -- and if I feel it's an easily ignorable detail -- then so be it. No, I don't consider Roxas a menace to society, no, I'm not going to even with what you bring to the plate, because no, I don't want to think of him less because of this. Because I've already had 2+ games to grow attached to him. And if I can keep that attachment by just assuming he needed to vent his anger by breaking something (the impression I initially had and still do have), then by golly that's what I'm going to do. Go go liberal arts major!

 

I'm much more receptive to arguments that explain why I should give a character or whatever another shot, than arguments for why that character sucks. Maybe I have shitty taste in characters, but I'm a fan who wants to have fun.

[EternalChange 303]

^  It's pretty clear who won this argument.

 

Honestly, getting back to the original topic, I agree: Even fake memories are memories that can hurt. For a time, DTT was Roxas's world, and the only thing he knew. And even when he got back to his mindset of the real world, I'm more than sure he wanted things to return to the sacred simplicity of DTT. I mean, after losing your friends, learning everything you know is a lie, learning you're a rebel to some shady organization with some weird agenda, and learning that you're going to have to disappear so that someone else has the chance to take center stage, very few wouldn't want to curl up into their shell like that. So I don't think Roxas was JUST crying over the loss of his friends; (which his plenty of reason to cry, honestly) he was also crying over the loss of his world, and his life.

Edited February 18, 2015 by KHrulz

[Drones 58]

Okay

[LeYenrz 276]

I find it freaking hilarious that a whole heated debate about Kingdom Hearts morals and ideals between Dracozombie and hatok arose from a simple post with glaring grammatical/spelling errors stating the absolute obvious.

[Aru Akise 2,540]

I find it freaking hilarious that a whole heated debate about Kingdom Hearts morals and ideals between Dracozombie and hatok arose from a simple post with glaring grammatical/spelling errors stating the absolute obvious.

At least something was born from such a post.

[Aile 273]

This discussion is pretty entertaining