Limits in KH III

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

I've been playing 2.5 and a thought occured to me.As OP as they may be Iove the Limits from KH II and I'd love them to return in KH III but with one change.Rather than being a selectable attack, I think that if they return in KH III, Limits should be extentions of party member attacks and require a bit more skill and timing. By this I mean that, rather than going into the battle menu, you shoud have to watch your pary member for an oppening to use it. For example, if you're nearby Goofy when he uses Goofy Tornado, a Reaction Command should appear allowing you to join in and turn Goofy Tornado in Whirli-Goof. The same with Donald, give him an attack that works lik his part of Comet and then have you be able to turn that into the Limit when he uses it near you. The exception to this, of course, would be Trinity Limit, as that's Sora's Limit Attack. This would add an element of strategy to the use of Limits and thereby make them less game-breaking.What do guys think, is this a good idea? Or would you have them come exactly as they where in KH II. Or perhaps you'd rather have them removed entirely? Maybe you have some other idea for them? Tell me what you think.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[Joker 1,560]

I've been playing 2.5 and a thought occured to me.As OP as they may be Iove the Limits from KH II and I'd love them to return in KH III but with one change.Rather than being a selecable attack, I think that if they return in KH III, Limits should be extentions of party member attacks and require a bit more skill and timing. By this I mean that, rather than going into the battle menu, you shoud have to watch your pary member for an oppening to use it. For example, if you're nearby Goofy when he uses Goofy Tornado, a reaction command should appear allowing you to join in and turn Goofy Tornado in Whirli-Goof. The same with Donald, give him an attack that works lik his part of Comet and then have you be able to turn that into the Limit when he uses it near you. The exception to this, of course, would be Trinity Limit, as that's Sora's lLimit Attack. This would add an element of strategy to the use of Limits and thereby make them less game-breaking.What do guys think, is this a good idea? Or would you have them come exactly as they where in KH II. Or perhaps you'd rather have them removed entirely? Maybe you have some other idea for them? Tell me what you think.

kh3 commands 

 

 

 

 

ATTACK

MAGIC

ITEMS

SUMMON  

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Sounds like that would make combat a lot more tedious; waiting for your AI companions to decide to do a thing so you can build off that thing doesn't sound as fun as just being able to do a thing on my own. I'd rather have more Limits for each character and preferably an easier way to activate them (flipping through menus during combat has always been kind of a pain).

 

I'm more interested in how they might incorporate Flowmotion (or whatever it;s gonna be called) to use with your companions; maybe Flowmotioning into Goofy can activate Whirli-Goof, or Flowmotioning into Donald can activate a unique powered spell, or things like that. I could see Flowmotion replacing a lot of Limits, though I still would like the good ol' KH2 Reaction Command style for the more complex ones.

Edited January 21, 2015 by HeyMouseSayCheese

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Sounds like that would make combat a lot more tedious; waiting for your AI companions to decide to do a thing so you can build off that thing doesn't sound as fun as just being able to do a thing on my own. I'd rather have more Limits for each character and preferably an easier way to activate them (flipping through menus during combat has always been kind of a pain).

 

I'm more interested in how they might incorporate Flowmotion (or whatever it;s gonna be called) to use with your companions; maybe Flowmotioning into Goofy can activate Whirli-Goof, or Flowmotioning into Donald can activate a unique powered spell, or things like that. I could see Flowmotion replacing a lot of Limits, though I still would like the good ol' KH2 Reaction Command style for the more complex ones.

Well, if the A. I. control is anything like it is in KH II, you'd be able to choose how often a party member uses an attack.Flomotion is being replaced by Attraction Flow. (that thing where you summon rides frm Disneyland)

Edited January 21, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Well, if the A.I control is anything like it is in KH II, you'd be able to choose how often a party member uses an attack.Flomotion is being replaced by Attraction Flow. (that thing where you summon rides frm Disneyland)

 

But are they really gonna abandon Flowmotion as it was in DDD entirely? I thought Nomura said at some point that they were going to refine/expand it for KH3, and if so, that'd be one way to do it.

 

And even if they AI does use the required moved for Limits a lot (and even when they were put to frequent, they didn't use those moves very often for me. Maybe I'm just unlucky.), if they're still dependant on MP, then once the companions MP is empty, you can't use that Limit anymore. You could use Ethers on them or give them plenty of Ethers to use themselves, but even so that all just seems to needlessly complicate the process. I want combat to be smooth and quick, not slow and stat-manage-y.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

kh3 commands 

 

 

 

 

ATTACK

MAGIC

ITEMS

SUMMON  

More likeATTACK> ATTACK

MAGIC DRIVE

ITEM   PARTY

SUMMON D-LINK

But are they really gonna abandon Flowmotion as it was in DDD entirely? I thought Nomura said at some point that they were going to refine/expand it for KH3, and if so, that'd be one way to do it.

 

And even if they AI does use the required moved for Limits a lot (and even when they were put to frequent, they didn't use those moves very often for me. Maybe I'm just unlucky.), if they're still dependant on MP, then once the companions MP is empty, you can't use that Limit anymore. You could use Ethers on them or give them plenty of Ethers to use themselves, but even so that all just seems to needlessly complicate the process. I want combat to be smooth and quick, not slow and stat-manage-y.

I think so, after they released that trailer with Rock Titan, Nomura called Attraction Flow an "evolution of Flomotion"It really wouldn't be all that diffrent from waiting for an enemy to present an opportunity to use a Reaction command.To me, using Flowmotion to activate a Limit sounds much more tedious and time-consuming than using a Reaction Command. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to slide into an ally while they're constantly moving around the battlefield?

Edited January 23, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[Philip Ellwell 5,487]

Keep them in

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

I think so, after they released that trailer with Rock Titan, Nomura called Attraction Flow an "evolution of Flomotion"

It really wouldn't be all that diffrent from waiting for an enemy to present an opportunity to use a Reaction command.To me, using Flowmotion to activate a Limit sounds much more tedious and time-consuming than using a Reaction Command. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to slide into an ally while they're constantly moving around the battlefield?

 

Thing is, because of how long it can take to get enemies to do certain things to use their Reaction Commands, i rarely ever use Reaction Commands on basic enemies. Why wait to do a special move when I can just attack them regularly and get the same result? (At least, that how it is for Heartless. Nobodies seem to give me a lot more chances to do cool things- part of why I like 'em so much.) Luckily, you never really have to wait for an enemy to be open for Limits, you just activate them an they start. Making Limits dependent on what your companions do takes away that benefit, and I'm not a fan of that.

 

You have the same argument against Flowmotion Limits that I have against AI context Limits- that is, it's too annoying and pointless to try and activate Limits that way and Reaction Commands are much simpler. Thinking about it, KH2 style Limits are probably the way to go if they include Limits; they work great, so why fix what ain't broken?

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Thing is, because of how long it can take to get enemies to do certain things to use their Reaction Commands, i rarely ever use Reaction Commands on basic enemies. Why wait to do a special move when I can just attack them regularly and get the same result? (At least, that how it is for Heartless. Nobodies seem to give me a lot more chances to do cool things- part of why I like 'em so much.) Luckily, you never really have to wait for an enemy to be open for Limits, you just activate them an they start. Making Limits dependent on what your companions do takes away that benefit, and I'm not a fan of that.

 

You have the same argument against Flowmotion Limits that I have against AI context Limits- that is, it's too annoying and pointless to try and activate Limits that way and Reaction Commands are much simpler. Thinking about it, KH2 style Limits are probably the way to go if they include Limits; they work great, so why fix what ain't broken?

That's the thing though, to some people, Limits are broke, because they're so powerful and all you have to do it wait a couple minuted to recharge before using them. Add in MP Haste, and MP Rage and those minutes turn into seconds. It using up all your MP was just a way to make it so you couldn't spam them. being dependent on Reaction Commands would have the same effect so using MP wouldn't me necessary. Or maybe it could use up the party members MP instead of yours.

 

This type of system It seemed to work well enough in BbS on those rare occasions we got to team up with other characters, like Mickey and Hercules.I'll admit though, I'm extremely bias. This whole idea pretty much just came from me seeing Goofy use Goofy Tornado and thinking "Man I want to join in" but being out of MP.

[hatok 6,413]

So basically make it work like the team up fights in BBS?

I don't like the idea, unless there's a clear way to be able to make your party members use the move. Otherwise, using it whenever you want provides a lot mroe strategic potential

 

But are they really gonna abandon Flowmotion as it was in DDD entirely? I thought Nomura said at some point that they were going to refine/expand it for KH3, and if so, that'd be one way to do it.

 

And even if they AI does use the required moved for Limits a lot (and even when they were put to frequent, they didn't use those moves very often for me. Maybe I'm just unlucky.), if they're still dependant on MP, then once the companions MP is empty, you can't use that Limit anymore. You could use Ethers on them or give them plenty of Ethers to use themselves, but even so that all just seems to needlessly complicate the process. I want combat to be smooth and quick, not slow and stat-manage-y.

already stated, the 'evolution' of Flowmotion is those rides Sora summons

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

That's the thing though, to some people, Limits are broke, because they're so powerful and all you have to do it wait a couple minuted to recharge before using them. Add in MP Haste, and MP Rage and those minutes turn into seconds. It using up all your MP was just a way to make it so you couldn't spam them. being dependent on Reaction Commands would have the same effect so using MP wouldn't me necessary. Or maybe it could use up the party members MP instead of yours.

 

This type of system It seemed to work well enough in BbS on those rare occasions we got to team up with other characters, like Mickey and Hercules.I'll admit though, I'm extremely bias. This whole idea pretty much just came from me seeing Goofy use Goofy Tornado and thinking "Man I want to join in" but being out of MP.

 

I agree Limits are pretty OP, but the system for activating them is not the problem. The attacks themselves slicing through enemies like a hot knife through butter and the Limits making Sora invincible are what make them so "broken" (also not my word of choice, since Limits hardly break the game). The answer is to make enemies tougher or make the attacks less powerful, not make Limits more conditional to use.

 

Also, I love the idea of Goofy spinning around in circles in mid-air and Sora just standing there looking sad because he can't join in.

 

 

already stated, the 'evolution' of Flowmotion is those rides Sora summons

 

Uuuugh but I liked Flowmotion, dammit. Besides, the rides so far seem nothing like Flowmotion- they look more like Limits than anything else (and the Rock Titan just seems like another boss-specific Reaction Command-type thing like the dozens there were in KH2). I guess when they announce more news they might explain more on how Attraction Flow works, but I hope it doesn't stray too far from Flowmotion. That had potential.

[hatok 6,413]

I agree Limits are pretty OP, but the system for activating them is not the problem. The attacks themselves slicing through enemies like a hot knife through butter and the Limits making Sora invincible are what make them so "broken" (also not my word of choice, since Limits hardly break the game). The answer is to make enemies tougher or make the attacks less powerful, not make Limits more conditional to use.

 

Also, I love the idea of Goofy spinning around in circles in mid-air and Sora just standing there looking sad because he can't join in.

 

 

 

Uuuugh but I liked Flowmotion, dammit. Besides, the rides so far seem nothing like Flowmotion- they look more like Limits than anything else (and the Rock Titan just seems like another boss-specific Reaction Command-type thing like the dozens there were in KH2). I guess when they announce more news they might explain more on how Attraction Flow works, but I hope it doesn't stray too far from Flowmotion. That had potential.

Eh, I'm glad Flowmotion was axed in its current form. Despite its name there was nothing 'flowing' about it. It was really stiff and jerky, and it made the level design irrelevant. and as a side effect it made it so there was no worthwhile treasure

AND it made abilities like are dash double jump and glide completely meaningless

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

It would be awesome if Limit attacks returned for Kingdom Hearts III!  There's no doubt that the enemy A.I will be much stronger, so Limit attacks can be handy for getting out of tight spots!  Knowing Nomura, if he were to incorporate Limit attacks again, he'd probably add a new twist to it.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Eh, I'm glad Flowmotion was axed in its current form. Despite its name there was nothing 'flowing' about it. It was really stiff and jerky, and it made the level design irrelevant. and as a side effect it made it so there was no worthwhile treasure

AND it made abilities like are dash double jump and glide completely meaningless

 

Yeah, Flowmotion was kinda broken, but I woulda liked to see them refine it and make it less broken (no infinite wall jumping, more attacks and abilities learned over time rather than right away) along with level design that would actually compliment it rather than just huge empty maps. I dunno, it just seems like too cool an idea to just drop entirely.

[hatok 6,413]

Yeah, Flowmotion was kinda broken, but I woulda liked to see them refine it and make it less broken (no infinite wall jumping, more attacks and abilities learned over time rather than right away) along with level design that would actually compliment it rather than just huge empty maps. I dunno, it just seems like too cool an idea to just drop entirely.

I just recently tried Prototype 2 thanks to PS+, and I think it should work like the free running in that. It has abilities like glide and air dash as well and they're still useful. But it also eliminates annoying stuff like having to jump repeatedly to climb walls, instead just giving you the ability to run up walls

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

I just recently tried Prototype 2 thanks to PS+, and I think it should work like the free running in that. It has abilities like glide and air dash as well and they're still useful. But it also eliminates annoying stuff like having to jump repeatedly to climb walls, instead just giving you the ability to run up walls

 

Yeah, that's the kinda stuff I'm talking about, and most super-hero-type games have those kinds of abilities. Though thing is, those games are almost always centered around one huge city map to use those abilities to move around in, as opposed to the several smaller worlds that KH games always have. I dunno if I'd ever want KH to go in such an open world direction like that just to make Flowmotion work well, so I guess I understand why they're revamping it. ugh i just thought it was cool uuuugh

[hatok 6,413]

Yeah, that's the kinda stuff I'm talking about, and most super-hero-type games have those kinds of abilities. Though thing is, those games are almost always centered around one huge city map to use those abilities to move around in, as opposed to the several smaller worlds that KH games always have. I dunno if I'd ever want KH to go in such an open world direction like that just to make Flowmotion work well, so I guess I understand why they're revamping it. ugh i just thought it was cool uuuugh

I'd say they just need geometry heavy areas like the one part of Twilight Town they showed in that one trailer, combined with enemies that you can use the terrain against

It can be as simple as stuff like that giant heartless swarm, if attacked from above by jumping of a building, temporarily dissipates into a bunch of regular Shadows

[Omega Ness 112]

As OP as they are...

 

They've gotten me out of a few tough spots.