If Nobodies can grow a heart...

[SRKTVAMDGRLXN 232]

...does that mean they can be killed to make more Heartless and more Nobodies?

 

Love and peace...

[Official Bowtie Artist 90]

Wait a minute...That's...actually really smart. In this way, someone could very well be immortal!

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Wait a minute...That's...actually really smart. In this way, someone could very well be immortal!

Which means Xehanort won't die

[MarkXIIII 106]

They can grow a heart but they still don't exist because they lack a body.

 

If you kill them, they completely disappear unless they are restored as a person when the original heart is released from a heartless before that.

 

Therefore, Lea became axel. Axel's heart was some random heartless that was slain and the heart was released at some point. 

Axel was born because the shell that is left behind TURNS into a heartless (it's not the real body as a "body" requires a heart and body).

Axel develops a heart after connecting with sora and ven (through roxas). Therefore Axel can exist but he stil doesnt, et that?

 

So when Axel as complete as he can become as a nobidy is killed, he completely vanishes! His shell/body fades and his heart dies.

Then he is restored as Lea with his original body and heart.

 

 

I did some research into that as it didnt make any sense otherwise. If Axel kept his heart he would end up having two hearts when he was restored as lea with his original heart.

 

Xion develops a heart as well.

 

Roxas, however, doesn't! Nobodies try to become whole and this includes having a heart. So they can grow a heart but roxas already has one, which is Ven's.

Ven's heart is sleeping inside Roxas (which is why they look alike) and he sorta can feel that therefore he does not crave having feelings and a heart like all the other nobodies. The heart is "awakened" by the intense feelings at Xion's death and therefore Roxas can dualwield.

 

That means that Roxas is the only nobody that does not have a heart of his own.

This is based on the fact that 1 being can only have one won heart. PEople can harbor other people'S hearts but only temporarily and it stays the other person's heart. 

When he is reunited with Sora, Roxas and Ven'S heart return to Sora and when Ven is awakened Sora's heart is left as the only one.

 

 

Therefore, Restoring Axel is useless as he is in fact lea. Restoring Xion could be accomplished if they could recreate her grown heart somehow.

 

But restoring Roxas should be impossible as he is the only true nobidy without a heart. (and they should keep it that way o else they'll lose all credibility on their universe)

 

Namine , I think, does not have a heart because she didnt have a heartless either (Kairi'S heart holds no darkness). 

Hence, restoring LEa was credible. Xion coming back would be hard but remotely feasible. 

Roxas and Namine should be just inside Kairi and Sora to keep credibility. MAybe a cutscene appearance but not as an independent person.

 

Ven will return alongside with Terra and Aqua and each character will have ONE heart and therefore exist.

 

In order to kill Xehanort, they need to completely destroy his heart and they'll be good.

[Daxam XXI 31]

^

But why would they want to become Sombodies if they have all their memories of being their original selves and can grow a new heart ontop of that?

[Guest]

They can grow a heart but they still don't exist because they lack a body. If you kill them, they completely disappear unless they are restored as a person when the original heart is released from a heartless before that. Therefore, Lea became axel. Axel's heart was some random heartless that was slain and the heart was released at some point. Axel was born because the shell that is left behind TURNS into a heartless (it's not the real body as a "body" requires a heart and body).Axel develops a heart after connecting with sora and ven (through roxas). Therefore Axel can exist but he stil doesnt, et that? So when Axel as complete as he can become as a nobidy is killed, he completely vanishes! His shell/body fades and his heart dies.Then he is restored as Lea with his original body and heart.  I did some research into that as it didnt make any sense otherwise. If Axel kept his heart he would end up having two hearts when he was restored as lea with his original heart. Xion develops a heart as well. Roxas, however, doesn't! Nobodies try to become whole and this includes having a heart. So they can grow a heart but roxas already has one, which is Ven's.Ven's heart is sleeping inside Roxas (which is why they look alike) and he sorta can feel that therefore he does not crave having feelings and a heart like all the other nobodies. The heart is "awakened" by the intense feelings at Xion's death and therefore Roxas can dualwield. That means that Roxas is the only nobody that does not have a heart of his own.This is based on the fact that 1 being can only have one won heart. PEople can harbor other people'S hearts but only temporarily and it stays the other person's heart. When he is reunited with Sora, Roxas and Ven'S heart return to Sora and when Ven is awakened Sora's heart is left as the only one.  Therefore, Restoring Axel is useless as he is in fact lea. Restoring Xion could be accomplished if they could recreate her grown heart somehow. But restoring Roxas should be impossible as he is the only true nobidy without a heart. (and they should keep it that way o else they'll lose all credibility on their universe) Namine , I think, does not have a heart because she didnt have a heartless either (Kairi'S heart holds no darkness). Hence, restoring LEa was credible. Xion coming back would be hard but remotely feasible. Roxas and Namine should be just inside Kairi and Sora to keep credibility. MAybe a cutscene appearance but not as an independent person. Ven will return alongside with Terra and Aqua and each character will have ONE heart and therefore exist. In order to kill Xehanort, they need to completely destroy his heart and they'll be good.

Um...The whole point of a Nobody is that it is what remains of a human body after a heart leaves it via being turned into a Heartless. It is a "shell" but that's all a human body is in the KH universe: a shell to house the heart. If a heart were in theory to grow to complete maturity inside a Nobody (a being that lacks a heart but has a soul and body, as per Yen Sid's explination) before fading away or being destroyed, it would subsequently make them a whole person again as the "shell" how holds what it was meant to, a heart. A heart is a heart, no matter what, y'know? But it depends on if the "grown" heart reached maturity first.we have no idea how long it takes. If it only takes about a year, then Axel would then have a heart, being destroyed however would make another heartless, but not another Nobody. I'll explain why.That heart is not the intended heart of use. The body grows a new one to cope, but it would rather the original over a replacement, kind of like a transplant surgery, when an organ is replaced: medicine can force one's body to cope with it, allowing it to work, but it won't ever work quite like the one made for it originally did. At this point, Sora has slaughtered billions of heartless, no doubt Lea's heart was released. Who is to say it was even done by Sora? Anyone with a Keyblade that was around and active at the time pre-Axel's death could have killed the Heartless. If it were nothing more than a generic shadow for each of them, odds are Sora killed all of the Org13 heartless by dumb luck via Deus Ex Machina. If the original hart is around at the time of the destroyed Nobody, they will re-fuse like normal. And if he were made nobody agaij, and the other heart was available (which is likely), that heart likely would fuse with the Nobody as it dose technically belong to it. If neither were avalable by some level of non-bullshit luck, he would likely once again become a Nobody and the cycle contenues.Honestly, I think that would have been a better idea for explaining Xehanort being alive still, at least better than time travel.On the subject of Roxas, this is diffrent. Roxas is diffrent to how you said and this is the reason: Ven is sleeping.Ventus had no affect on Roxas until, well, technically he was made up and jammed in (but this isn't a BBS rant, so I will just move on from here) and until Roxas' s true emotion of sadness and deep sorrow for loss of his friend in a sense activated it (although the idea of him absorbing Xion and taking her replica keyblade was much better, imo). But how did he feel those emotions without any sense of a heart? Nobodies can only truly replicate emotion, and since Ven is sleeping, and thus not truly interfering, a heart native to the body must grow as a result. Remember, Roxas is cocky and arrogent in combat, Ventus is just more or less confident. He relies on his friends a lot more. And most importantly, they fight far diffrent and handle certian interactions diffrently. In some situations, Ventus goes in head first and reckless, and Roxas often prepares, hesitates, ect. These have to do with diffrece of beings, and show Roxas is developing into his own character. /end rant.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

They can grow a heart but they still don't exist because they lack a body. If you kill them, they completely disappear unless they are restored as a person when the original heart is released from a heartless before that. Therefore, Lea became axel. Axel's heart was some random heartless that was slain and the heart was released at some point. Axel was born because the shell that is left behind TURNS into a heartless (it's not the real body as a "body" requires a heart and body).Axel develops a heart after connecting with sora and ven (through roxas). Therefore Axel can exist but he stil doesnt, et that?

 Actually a Nobody is literally made from the body and soul of the original person. When a person with a strong will becomes a Heartless the body that is left behind develops a will of it's own. In other words Axel was Lea's physical body left behind after his heart turned into a heartless. 

So when Axel as complete as he can become as a nobidy is killed, he completely vanishes! His shell/body fades and his heart dies.Then he is restored as Lea with his original body and heart.

This is not true either it is more likely that in most of those cases the new heart returned to the heart of the Somebodies. Remember some of the Nobodies consciously chose to carry on there Nobody existences as they had when they were Somebodies. Those Nobodies clung to the memories and personalities of their former existences and any new heart would respond to that.  To simplify it if Axel's identified himself with his former existence (Lea) any heart he regrew would still fit under the identity of Lea. So when Axel was destroyed his new heart would meld with his old one albeit assimilating the memories and abilities he gained as Axel. I believe this is how Axel was able to summon his Keyblade so quick and survive the Corridors of Darkness because he now has a really strong heart. 

Roxas, however, doesn't! Nobodies try to become whole and this includes having a heart. So they can grow a heart but roxas already has one, which is Ven's.Ven's heart is sleeping inside Roxas (which is why they look alike) and he sorta can feel that therefore he does not crave having feelings and a heart like all the other nobodies. The heart is "awakened" by the intense feelings at Xion's death and therefore Roxas can dualwield. That means that Roxas is the only nobody that does not have a heart of his own.This is based on the fact that 1 being can only have one won heart. PEople can harbor other people'S hearts but only temporarily and it stays the other person's heart. When he is reunited with Sora, Roxas and Ven'S heart return to Sora and when Ven is awakened Sora's heart is left as the only one. 

 Roxas definitely grew his own heart there are many signs confirming it. His appearance in the datascape and within Sora's heart serve as confirmation. Even Sora admits that Roxas is his own person and deserves his own existence. Further proof lies in Axel and Xion growing their own hearts as well as Ven's heart being restored to an active force. Ansem and Xemnas said that interaction with other hearts is what nurtures heart buds to grow and between Roxas and Sora they had plenty of exposure. 

[MarkXIIII 106]

 Actually a Nobody is literally made from the body and soul of the original person. When a person with a strong will becomes a Heartless the body that is left behind develops a will of it's own. In other words Axel was Lea's physical body left behind after his heart turned into a heartless. 

This is not true either it is more likely that in most of those cases the new heart returned to the heart of the Somebodies. Remember some of the Nobodies consciously chose to carry on there Nobody existences as they had when they were Somebodies. Those Nobodies clung to the memories and personalities of their former existences and any new heart would respond to that.  To simplify it if Axel's identified himself with his former existence (Lea) any heart he regrew would still fit under the identity of Lea. So when Axel was destroyed his new heart would meld with his old one albeit assimilating the memories and abilities he gained as Axel. I believe this is how Axel was able to summon his Keyblade so quick and survive the Corridors of Darkness because he now has a really strong heart. 

 Roxas definitely grew his own heart there are many signs confirming it. His appearance in the datascape and within Sora's heart serve as confirmation. Even Sora admits that Roxas is his own person and deserves his own existence. Further proof lies in Axel and Xion growing their own hearts as well as Ven's heart being restored to an active force. Ansem and Xemnas said that interaction with other hearts is what nurtures heart buds to grow and between Roxas and Sora they had plenty of exposure. 

 

Roxas DESERVES to be his own person but he does not yet have his own heart. At least not until he merges with sora. As a person can only hold 1 heart and Roxas already had Ven's...

 

Also, The body left behind BECOMES the nobody. as Yen Sid confirms in KHII, the body turns into a Shell but doesn't stay the exact same. Higher Nobodies only retain the appearance of their former selves.

 

And it doesn'T really matter which heart it is exactly. Fact is, Axel/ LEa can only have one heart (even if both hearts merge) as havinbg Axel's new heart and LEa'S old would make him two persons, namely Lea and Axel.

 

It kind of is a plothole but it doesn't really matter as most org. members are only existent in one form. Xehanort and Sora and Namine make things more difficult.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Roxas DESERVES to be his own person but he does not yet have his own heart. At least not until he merges with sora. As a person can only hold 1 heart and Roxas already had Ven's...

 

 

Umm are we playing the same game. If a person can only hold one heart  then how come the main character is confirmed to be harboring the hearts of Roxas, Xion, Ventus and Namine alongside his own. Try again...

 

 

 

These are two of the most important cutscenes in the game because they offer the most valuable information about what is going on.

In "My Friends Are My Power" Xemnas explains that the moment the heart is separated from the body it will attempt to replace it. This means upon being turned into Nobodies every Organization member was susceptible to regrowing the heart that they had lost.

 

In "The Box's Contents" Xemnas also explains that the memory and heart are what creates an identity and cites this as to why Tron from the Grid did not behave as he had in the Space Paranoids. Tron as a digital entity has no heart and is subject to the laws of the digital world. His identity is capable of being manipulated because he has no heart to parse his memories with. However as we later see Sora was able to connect with Tron and a part of Tron recognized Sora. This indicates Tron might have started growing a heart through Sora and when he connected with Sora a part of him remembered. Nomura explains this concept in the 365/2 Famitsu Interviews. Ansem the Wise stated that when Sora sees the heart within something it becomes real Tron clearly reacted to this ability of Sora's.

What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?

 

Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn't have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn't limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.

 

 

 

The memories and experiences that one has gives the heart form and creates an identity that is unique to each person. It has long been established that as Nobodies the Organization members had access to all the memories of their Somebodies. As such most of the original members of Organization XIII acted and aligned with the identities they had in their previous existence. They used their old memories as the basis for their existences as Nobodies which would spark identity with Organization members that regrew their hearts. We see this process quite clearly with Axel who became more and more like his old self the longer he interacted with Roxas and Sora. The exceptions seem to apply to Roxas, Namine, Xemnas, Siax, Xigbar, and Xaldin. Roxas, Namine, and Xemnas were born as special Nobodies and the special circumstances surrounding their birth essentially gave them all a clean slate as Nobodies. In the case of Roxas and Namine they had no access to their old memories because they existed alongside of their Somebodies. In the case of Xemnas although he had access to the memories of his previous existences(being a shared Nobody) he chose to cast away his old identity in favor of his existence as Xemnas. As such when new hearts spawned within them they would be claimed under the new identities they had created for themselves. Roxas through out most of his existence had no access to Sora's memories, so when Sora's body aka Roxas's body began to replace the heart it had lost it parsed with Roxas's memories and experiences instead of Sora's. In layman's terms the new heart that Sora's body tried to replace became Roxas' instead of Sora's.

 

 

 

 

Also, The body left behind BECOMES the nobody. as Yen Sid confirms in KHII, the body turns into a Shell but doesn't stay the exact same. Higher Nobodies only retain the appearance of their former selves.

 

 Are you really going refute Nomura's own words...

Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

 

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart. As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked. And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

Also Yen Sid did not say the body turns into a shell..the body is the the empty shell.

 

 

He specifically states the shell that is left behind after the heart has left is what makes the Nobody. All that's left after the heart is removed is the body an empty vessel that develops a will of it's own.

Edited January 15, 2015 by devereauxr

[SRKTVAMDGRLXN 232]

 

 

Umm are we playing the same game. If a person can only hold one heart  then how come the main character is confirmed to be harboring the hearts of Roxas, Xion, Ventus and Namine alongside his own. Try again...

 

 

 

These are two of the most important cutscenes in the game because they offer the most valuable information about what is going on.

In "My Friends Are My Power" Xemnas explains that the moment the heart is separated from the body it will attempt to replace it. This means upon being turned into Nobodies every Organization member was susceptible to regrowing the heart that they had lost.

 

In "The Box's Contents" Xemnas also explains that the memory and heart are what creates an identity and cites this as to why Tron from the Grid did not behave as he had in the Space Paranoids. Tron as a digital entity has no heart and is subject to the laws of the digital world. His identity is capable of being manipulated because he has no heart to parse his memories with. However as we later see Sora was able to connect with Tron and a part of Tron recognized Sora. This indicates Tron might have started growing a heart through Sora and when he connected with Sora a part of him remembered. Nomura explains this concept in the 365/2 Famitsu Interviews. Ansem the Wise stated that when Sora sees the heart within something it becomes real Tron clearly reacted to this ability of Sora's.

 

 

The memories and experiences that one has gives the heart form and creates an identity that is unique to each person. It has long been established that as Nobodies the Organization members had access to all the memories of their Somebodies. As such most of the original members of Organization XIII acted and aligned with the identities they had in their previous existence. They used their old memories as the basis for their existences as Nobodies which would spark identity with Organization members that regrew their hearts. We see this process quite clearly with Axel who became more and more like his old self the longer he interacted with Roxas and Sora. The exceptions seem to apply to Roxas, Namine, Xemnas, Siax, Xigbar, and Xaldin. Roxas, Namine, and Xemnas were born as special Nobodies and the special circumstances surrounding their birth essentially gave them all a clean slate as Nobodies. In the case of Roxas and Namine they had no access to their old memories because they existed alongside of their Somebodies. In the case of Xemnas although he had access to the memories of his previous existences(being a shared Nobody) he chose to cast away his old identity in favor of his existence as Xemnas. As such when new hearts spawned within them they would be claimed under the new identities they had created for themselves. Roxas through out most of his existence had no access to Sora's memories, so when Sora's body aka Roxas's body began to replace the heart it had lost it parsed with Roxas's memories and experiences instead of Sora's. In layman's terms the new heart that Sora's body tried to replace became Roxas' instead of Sora's.

 

 

 

 Are you really going refute Nomura's own words...

Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

 

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart. As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked. And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

Also Yen Sid did not say the body turns into a shell..the body is the the empty shell.

 

 

He specifically states the shell that is left behind after the heart has left is what makes the Nobody. All that's left after the heart is removed is the body an empty vessel that develops a will of it's own.

 

That's something very tricky...If this Tron (from The Grid) has never met Sora before (because the Tron which appeared in KH2 wasn't the "real" one, if you know what I mean, he was just a copy/copied along with the original system), then how come he was able to recognize the boy after the battle?

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

That's something very tricky...If this Tron (from The Grid) has never met Sora before (because the Tron which appeared in KH2 wasn't the "real" one, if you know what I mean, he was just a copy/copied along with the original system), then how come he was able to recognize the boy after the battle?

It's because Sora's influence when sees the heart in something it becomes real. Sora's basis for his relationship with Grid Tron was based on the relationship he had already established with Space Paranoids Tron. Remember Rinzler/Tron is the source material for SP Tron so despite  being two different entities they share a connection. When Sora reconfigured Tron he clearly implemented his memories and experiences with SP Tron to which Grid Tron clearly responded. Despite having never officially met Sora was able to link those memories and part of Tron remembered him which is why he reached for Sora's hand.

 

Edited January 15, 2015 by devereauxr

[SRKTVAMDGRLXN 232]

It's because Sora's influence when sees the heart in something it becomes real. Sora's basis for his relationship with Grid Tron was based on the relationship he had already established with Space Paranoids Tron. Remember Rinzler/Tron is the source material for SP Tron so despite  being two different entities they share a connection. When Sora reconfigured Tron he clearly implemented his memories and experiences with SP Tron to which Grid Tron clearly responded. Despite having never officially met Sora was able to link those memories and part of Tron remembered him which is why he reached for Sora's hand.

 

Now that makes more sense...thank you for explaining, my friend.

[MarkXIIII 106]

One person can harbor several hearts but a person as a complete somebody is defined as consisting of 1 own body, one own heart and one soul. Therefore does can harbor several hearts but he still has only one of his own.

Hence Lea and axel have only 1 heart.

 

DDD does not a very good job explaining this and it kind of changes the laws a by but I'm referring to the main games and the absence reports. So far, the main games (aka complete stand-Alones are 1, 2 and bbs) all others are spin offs (days, coded, chi) [hence not directly connected to the main story development but focusing on different plot elements or characters) or titles leading up to the next main titles but those are not meant to be regarded as their own titles (com and ddd) com has a nice story but only makes sense as a whole in context of Kh2. So far, ddd is a rushed and underdeveloped game that tries to be a stand-alone but requires a lot of effort in kh3 to make sense of where ddd left off.

 

Piece

[This Persona 14]

lol i luv how this all turned srs when its in the random section