Legitimate plot holes

[Drones 58]

1. Goofy saying Mickey banished Pete @ 2:50

 

 

Pete states that Minnie banished him and Mickey obviously couldn't have done it based off of BBS's storyline @ 10:17

 

 

I like how both idiots refer to them as "him" and "she" even both are above them

 

2. Mickey saying Xehanort changed the fate of his "three friends" even though he never even met Terra... WTF. There's proof he was talking about Terra because of what Xehanort kept saying throughout the cutscene. @ 13:17

 

Edited January 4, 2015 by Drones

[MysticVriska 70]

Another one is the mishandling of who Riku said inspired him to want to leave the island. Of course, it could also be simply said he forgot about Terra inspiring him since he was so young at the time, and Kairi replaced him in his mind. 

[Drones 58]

Another one is the mishandling of who Riku said inspired him to want to leave the island. Of course, it could also be simply said he forgot about Terra inspiring him since he was so young at the time, and Kairi replaced him in his mind. 

 

A man from another world comes to a remote island and let's you touch his giant key... that's something you forget?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Drones

[Shulk 8,623]

1. That's more of a retcon than a plot hole. I'm pretty sure that they originally intended for Mickey to be the one to banish Pete. Nomura probably changed that because Mickey was off screwing around in the worlds instead of being at Disney Town.

 

2. My guess here is that it's the whole "I don't know them directly, but they're connected to my friend, so they're my friend" type of thing that happens in the series, kind of like why Axel stuck around with Sora and acted so friendly to him. I won't deny that it's a weird plot hole, but considering the whole theme of connected hearts in the series, he could have just seen it as a connection through his other friends.

[Drones 58]

1. That's more of a retcon than a plot hole. I'm pretty sure that they originally intended for Mickey to be the one to banish Pete. Nomura probably changed that because Mickey was off screwing around in the worlds instead of being at Disney Town.

 

2. My guess here is that it's the whole "I don't know them directly, but they're connected to my friend, so they're my friend" type of thing that happens in the series, kind of like why Axel stuck around with Sora and acted so friendly to him. I won't deny that it's a weird plot hole, but considering the whole theme of connected hearts in the series, he could have just seen it as a connection through his other friends.

 

1. That's not a retcon lol. It's called shitty writing. He had Mickey doing other things instead of sitting his ass on a throne as a king and banishing Pete for being stupid. I'm almost certain Nomura forgot about what Goofy said in KH2 when he wrote the story for Mickey. He also forgot about what Donald said because in the same scene Donald acts surprised that Yen Sid lives in the tower when he went there 10 years ago. According to Nomura Yen Sid was redecorating though. 

 

2. Yeah, he can't get off the hook that easily. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by Drones

[MysticVriska 70]

A man from another world comes to a remote island and let's you touch his giant key... that's something you forget?

 

I'm not saying he necessarily forgot that, just that Terra inspired him to leave the island. In a game prior to KH3D, he said Kairi is who inspired him.In KH3D, he says it was Terra. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by MysticVriska

[Shulk 8,623]

1. That's not a retcon lol. It's called shitty writing. He had Mickey doing other things instead of sitting his ass on a throne as a king and banishing Pete for being stupid. 

 

2. Yeah, he can't get off the hook that easily. 

1. First of all, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't respond in such an insulting tone. Secondly, it's always seemed like a retcon to me, whether intentional, or he just forgot that he ever mentioned Mickey banishing Pete. I never said the writing was that great, either. Again, he seemed to change his mind and have Minnie be the one to banish Pete over Mickey. That's the explanation I can see for it.

 

2. I wasn't trying to save Nomura, I was just trying to come up with a possible answer. I said in my post that "I won't deny that it's a weird plot hole," so my guess is about as good as what everyone else here can come up with. I was just trying to think of an alternative explanation.

[Aaron Ishikawa 1]

1. That's not a retcon lol. It's called shitty writing. He had Mickey doing other things instead of sitting his ass on a throne as a king and banishing Pete for being stupid. I'm almost certain Nomura forgot about what Goofy said in KH2 when he wrote the story for Mickey. He also forgot about what Donald said because in the same scene Donald acts surprised that Yen Sid lives in the tower when he went there 10 years ago. According to Nomura Yen Sid was redecorating though. 

 

2. Yeah, he can't get off the hook that easily. 

Keep in mind that the three had just woken up from a years sleep, and Namine probably forgot to put Donald's and Goofy's memory about visiting the tower long ago. That's how I interpret why Donald is surprised even though he had been there before. Also, who cares who banished Pete, the point is that he was banished and that led him to join Maleficent. 

[Drones 58]

I'm not saying he necessarily forgot that, just that Terra inspired him to leave the island. In a game prior to KH3D, he said Kairi is who inspired him.In KH3D, he says it was Terra. 

 

I know that, and I'm saying that he should not have forgot who it was and said Kairi in the first game lol.

 

1. It's always seemed like a retcon to me, whether intentional, or he just forgot that he ever mentioned Mickey banishing Pete. I never said the writing was that great, either. Again, he seemed to change his mind and have Minnie be the one to banish Pete over Mickey. That's the explanation I can see for it.

 

2. I wasn't trying to save Nomura, I was just trying to come up with a possible answer. I said in my post that "I won't deny that it's a weird plot hole," so my guess is about as good as what everyone else here can come up with. I was just trying to think of an alternative explanation.

 

1. Maybe you could consider it a retcon, definitely an inconsistency though.

 

2. Yeah, and I can definitely see Nomura saying some bullshit like that in an interview if he were to be asked, just like how he said Yen Sid was redecorating. He's full of shit and thinks when we find an inconsistency in his story it's funny. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by Shana09

[MysticVriska 70]

xDD, true...if only he had the BBS story done first, then things could have worked out better. 

[Drones 58]

Keep in mind that the three had just woken up from a years sleep, and Namine probably forgot to put Donald's and Goofy's memory about visiting the tower long ago. That's how I interpret why Donald is surprised even though he had been there before. 

 

If he forgot that then he might as well have forgot how to use his staff as well lol when was it ever implied that there memories were still fuzzy after being put back together? If this was the case then he should have made this clear, but it obviously wasn't. PLUS Nomura even said that it was because Yen Sid was "redecorating". Maybe you should have told Nomura this to save his career because this sounds a lot better than redecorating.

 

Also, who cares who banished Pete, the point is that he was banished and that led him to join Maleficent. 

 

The point is that it's a plot hole.

xDD, true...if only he had the BBS story done first, then things could have worked out better. 

 

BBS was made to fix plot holes and created more plot holes in the process, how poetic.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Drones

[Shulk 8,623]

I know that, and I'm saying that he should not have forgot who it was and said Kairi in the first game lol.

 

 

1. Stop being so sensitive, I talk to everyone like this, you act like I said anything insulting directly to or against you. Maybe you could consider it a retcon, definitely an inconsistency though.

 

2. Yeah, and I can definitely see Nomura saying some bullshit like that in an interview if he were to be asked, just like how he said Yen Sid was redecorating. He's full of shit and thinks when we find an inconsistency in his story it's funny. 

 

Again, I wasn't defending Nomura. I'm aware that he has inconsistencies in his writing, I was just trying to think of what he'd probably use to explain it.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Shana09

[MysticVriska 70]

xDDD, it is poetic indeed. The irony of it all....so many retcons in the series. 

[Drones 58]

xDDD, it is poetic indeed. The irony of it all....so many retcons in the series. 

 

The one in DDD is definitely not a retcon with that being the latest installment in the series lol.

[hatok 6,413]

1. Goofy saying Mickey banished Pete @ 2:50

 

 

Pete states that Minnie banished him and Mickey obviously couldn't have done it based off of BBS's storyline @ 10:17

 

 

I like how both idiots refer to them as "him" and "she" even both are above them

 

2. Mickey saying Xehanort changed the fate of his "three friends" even though he never even met Terra... WTF. There's proof he was talking about Terra because of what Xehanort kept saying throughout the cutscene. @ 13:17

 

1. Translation error. In Japanese the term of royalty is gender neutral, so they assumed it'd be Mickey, being the more significant character

2. I've brought this up before, but let's be frank, the barrier to entry for being someone's "friend" is incredibly low in KH. Somehow Donald and Goofy are considered Riku's friend, despite never interacting. Same with how they claim Sora "met" Terra, but that literally involves him glancing in Terra's direction at one point.

 

Another one is the mishandling of who Riku said inspired him to want to leave the island. Of course, it could also be simply said he forgot about Terra inspiring him since he was so young at the time, and Kairi replaced him in his mind. 

Watch the actual cutscene, Terra tells Riku to promise not to tell anybody. Besides that, after ten years of nothing happening probably got Riku to assume that random guy he met was bsing him. Kairi showing up unexpectedly is more concrete reason to explore the idea of outside worlds. besides, it wasn't even Terra, his original inspiration was Xehanort (unbeknownst to him)

Edited January 4, 2015 by Shana09

[Drones 58]

I swear you saw this an hour ago and used all of that time to find evidence to prove these aren't plot holes LOL.

1. Translation error. In Japanese the term of royalty is gender neutral, so they assumed it'd be Mickey, being the more significant character

 

1. If the Japanese term of royalty is gender neutral then how do they know who the firetruck Goofy is talking about in Japan? Did they assume he was talking about anyone or just Mickey in Japan because that would just prove I was right in that this is an inconsistency.That's just stupid, call it a retcon and be done with it lol.

 

2. I've brought this up before, but let's be frank, the barrier to entry for being someone's "friend" is incredibly low in KH. Somehow Donald and Goofy are considered Riku's friend, despite never interacting. Same with how they claim Sora "met" Terra, but that literally involves him glancing in Terra's direction at one point.

 

2. Donald and Goofy saw Riku though? lol. It's a little bit ridiculous for Mickey to claim someone who he doesn't know shit about is his friend, obviously a hole. Mickey doesn't have as many friends as he thinks he does.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Shana09

[hatok 6,413]

I swear you saw this an hour ago and used all of that time to find evidence to prove these aren't plot holes LOL.

 

1. If the Japanese term of royalty is gender neutral then how do they know who the firetruck Goofy is talking about in Japan? That's just stupid, call it a retcon and be done with it lol.

 

 

2. Donald and Goofy saw Riku though? lol. It's a little bit ridiculous for Mickey to claim someone who he doesn't know shit about it his friend, obviously a hole. Mickey doesn't have as many friends as he thinks he does.

it was gender neutral. So it could be referring to either one. It was probably decided later who it was, but the English dub wasn't taken into account.

They saw him, and that makes them friends? Then why is Mickey hearing about Terra not enough for him to call him a friend? The series constantly hammers home the message of "a friend of my friend is my friend" it doesn't seem at all out of character to me that Mickey would use that attitude when referring to people like Terra

Edited January 4, 2015 by Shana09

[BlankShell 638]

1. Or Goofy just straight up forgot... his name is "Goofy" after all =P. Besides, BBS happens ten years in the past... that's a pretty long time, all things considered. I didn't know about the translation thing though, that's interesting.

2. Sora never met Aqua or Terra (except in the weird dream-vision thing), or Xion, and they still appear next to him when he says "my friends are my power!" in DDD. The series is entirely about how we're connected by the strength of our hearts, which apparently transcends space, time, and all sorts of other physics. Besides, it would totally kill the flow of the scene if Mickey said "my two friends... and also that other guy you messed up!" so it's not really a plot hole, just a narrative liberty.

[Drones 58]

it was gender neutral. So it could be referring to either one. It was probably decided later who it was, but the English dub wasn't taken into account.

They saw him, and that makes them friends? Then why is Mickey hearing about Terra not enough for him to call him a friend? The series constantly hammers home the message of "a friend of my friend is my friend" it doesn't seem at all out of character to me that Mickey would use that attitude when referring to people like Terra

 

Yeah, just translate it for me and I'll believe you.

 

I'm not saying them seeing him makes them friends, but it at least gives them an idea of who they're calling "a friend". Hearing about someone is not the same as seeing someone in live action, you can formulate a better/respectable opinion about them and then call them "a friend" and be looked at less stupid.

[Psychic_Ketchup 367]

Look guys, being a keyblade master is really hard, and I think Mickey just gets lonely from time to time; he needs all the friends he can get, so he just tells everyone he's friends with Terra

[Drones 58]

1. Or Goofy just straight up forgot... his name is "Goofy" after all =P. Besides, BBS happens ten years in the past... that's a pretty long time, all things considered. I didn't know about the translation thing though, that's interesting.

2. Sora never met Aqua or Terra (except in the weird dream-vision thing), or Xion, and they still appear next to him when he says "my friends are my power!" in DDD. The series is entirely about how we're connected by the strength of our hearts, which apparently transcends space, time, and all sorts of other physics. Besides, it would totally kill the flow of the scene if Mickey said "my two friends... and also that other guy you messed up!" so it's not really a plot hole, just a narrative liberty.

 

1. This seems more likely that he forgot, but Nomura made him forget. And I don't know about his translation error claim, he either looked that up on Google or is fluent in Japanese. 

 

2. Sora was likely able to see Aqua and Terra through Ventus, Xion through Roxas, and it's not like he summoned them next to him when he said that lol... I can't explain this but that's like one of those things for the gamer to see.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

1. This seems more likely that he forgot, but Nomura made him forget. And I don't know about his translation error claim, he either looked that up on Google or is fluent in Japanese. 

 

2. Sora was likely able to see Aqua and Terra through Ventus, Xion through Roxas, and it's not like he summoned them next to him when he said that lol... I can't explain this but that's like one of those things for the gamer to see.

You don't need to be that fluent in Japanese to discover it's a translation error heck there are hundreds of subbed cutscenes on youtube.And even without those a little cultural background will get you through

 

It doesn't require that much fluency dude,and honestly how in the holy firetruck do you know that he did look it up on google or not?Where you sitting with him inside his room?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Smash Mega Koopa

[Aaron Ishikawa 1]

1. Or Goofy just straight up forgot... his name is "Goofy" after all =P. Besides, BBS happens ten years in the past... that's a pretty long time, all things considered. I didn't know about the translation thing though, that's interesting.

2. Sora never met Aqua or Terra (except in the weird dream-vision thing), or Xion, and they still appear next to him when he says "my friends are my power!" in DDD. The series is entirely about how we're connected by the strength of our hearts, which apparently transcends space, time, and all sorts of other physics. Besides, it would totally kill the flow of the scene if Mickey said "my two friends... and also that other guy you messed up!" so it's not really a plot hole, just a narrative liberty.

Incorrect. Sora definitely as met Aqua, she even told him to be there for Riku if he ever lost his way. He has also met Terra before DDD, just unknown at the time that the person he was interacting with was Terra. Remember, the Lingering Will (Terra) fight is a canon part of the Kingdom Hearts story, much like the Xemnas fight from Kingdom Hearts I

[DemyxIsBest 367]

I have another plot hole, why doesn't Axel ask if Roxas is the nobody of Ventus even though they've met before and he and Roxas look identical, he's never met Sora so wouldn't be presume it's Ventus's nobody. Axel says he retains memories of his past self so surely he remembers meeting Ventus?

[Britipinojeff 95]

I second the translation error theory. When speaking to royalty japanese people pretty much just say ojou-sama. So when Goofy says that in japanese he could be talking about either mickey or minnie. Nomura probably didnt plan ahead with Disneytown's story in BBS though. So i'm gonna say that if Nomura remembered that scene then he would of noticed that its gender neutral too and then minnie banishing pete wouldnt be a problem

 

 

I have another plot hole, why doesn't Axel ask if Roxas is the nobody of Ventus even though they've met before and he and Roxas look identical, he's never met Sora so wouldn't be presume it's Ventus's nobody. Axel says he retains memories of his past self so surely he remembers meeting Ventus?

Axel liked to keep quiet about his past around Roxas and Xion. When they ask him about his memories he kinda avoids sharing much.

Also, if I were axel I wouldnt think that a nobody born 10 years after I met some random guy one day would be the same person.