The True Purpose of the Pods in the Mansion: A Theory

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Couldn't you argue then that DiZ showed up in Twilight Town for the same reason Roxas did- because it's an in-between world? It would be easiest to escape the RoD to a place that's already close to it- it's not random, it's just the nature of that world. (And I guess he didn't need Traverse Town that bad then. )

True, but that was kind of my point, seemingly random or coincidental occurrences in Kingdom Hearts often have a deeper hidden meaning. But though they are fewer, I'm sure there are more in-between worlds than Twilight Town and Castle Oblivion that we simply don't know of yet.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

True, but that's was kind of my point, Seemingly random or coincidental occurrences in Kingdom Hearts often have a deeper hidden meaning.

 

There's only deeper meaning when they're given one later. Twilight Town wasn't where Roxas was born until 358/2 said it was, so back in KH2 it wasn't too weird that DiZ ended up there.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

There's only deeper meaning when they're given one later. Twilight Town wasn't where Roxas was born until 358/2 said it was, so back in KH2 it wasn't too weird that DiZ ended up there.

Actually, the original KH II FM said so too. That scene where Xemans give Roxas his name shows up there too, and it's actually longer, showing him waking up.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Actually, the original KH II FM said so too.

 

You mean the game that wasn't released outside of Japan until less than two weeks ago?

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

You mean the game that wasn't released outside of Japan until less than two weeks ago?

Yes, but that doesn't matter, it existed before days, therefore all things in KH II FM where established before Days was made. It's not like Nomura made KH II, then Days, then KH II FM.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Yes, but that doesn't matter, it existed before days, therefore all thing in KH II FM where established before Days was made.

 

Regardless, the original game didn't mention that, so back then it wasn't a big deal. Of course, the more complicated Nomura makes the stories, the more plotholes open up. That's Kingdom Hearts for you (and any series, really).

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Regardless, the original game didn't mention that, so back then it wasn't a big deal. Of course, the more complicated Nomura makes the stories, the more plotholes open up. That's Kingdom Hearts for you (and any series, really).

Yeah, but KH II FM came out just a few moths after the original.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Yeah, but KH II FM came out just a few moths after the original.

 

Then for those few months, DiZ and Roxas ending up in the same place wasn't an issue. Doesn't matter when it changed, the fact is it did and created a funny little plothole. It happens.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Then for those few months, DiZ and Roxas ending up in the same place wasn't an issue. Doesn't matter when it changed, the fact is it did and created a funny little plothole. It happens.

It didn't exactly change, the original KH 2 just never said where roxas was born. Fo all we know, Nomura could have intend roxas to be born in Twilight Town ever since the world was crated and just didn't say it until FM.

 

Obviously it's not the same with the pods, but he can always go back. To Nomura, every vague or unexplained detail, no matte how small, its an opportunity for expansion.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

It didn't exactly change, the original KH 2 just never said where roxas was born. Fo all we know, Nomura could have intend roxas to be born in Twilight Town ever since the world was crated and just didn't say it until FM.

 

Obviously it's not the same with the pods, but he can always go back. To Nomura, every vague or unexplained detail, no matte how small, its an opportunity for expansion.

 

Maybe Nomura did intend Roxas to be born in TT, but that wasn't said in the original KH2. When 2FM came out and declared that Roxas was born there, then it was kind of weird that DiZ ended up in the same place. What's in Nomura's head doesn't count, it's what's in the games.

 

And I really don't like that any little detail can become a major plot point; it feels like grasping for straws when he doesn't need to be. Just write a new story or expand on major themes that've already been introduced, don't harp on the little stuff from older games.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

It wouldn't be all that random if, like I was saying, the Organization was using both facilities. Then them having the same equipment would make a lot of sense.And if you going to bring randomness in to this, how random is it that DiZ just happened to find his way to Twilight Town, the same place Roxas was born, to begin with?

But like I said if we accept that the facilities are not randomly placed and both were Organization XIII in origin why let DiZ use them. If we go by your theory those facilities would be of huge importance to the Organization as such to abandon them into the hands of his enemy would be a huge blunder. Xemnas unlike Master Xehanort was a lot more thorough in ensuring his plans came to fruition. If he knew that Sora was being held in one of his facilities I can't imagine him not making an attempt to capture Sora especially since he was dead set that Sora was not to wake. Xemnas may not have been targeting Sora for a vessel but capturing Sora would have completely halted the attempts to wake Sora. Considering Xemnas was using Xion and Roxas to trap Sora's power keeping him hostage would have played into his hands. 

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

But like I said if we accept that the facilities are not randomly placed and both were Organization XIII in origin why let DiZ use them. If we go by your theory those facilities would be of huge importance to the Organization as such to abandon them into the hands of his enemy would be a huge blunder. Xemnas unlike Master Xehanort was a lot more thorough in ensuring his plans came to fruition. If he knew that Sora was being held in one of his facilities I can't imagine him not making an attempt to capture Sora especially since he was dead set that Sora was not to wake. Xemnas may not have been targeting Sora for a vessel but capturing Sora would have completely halted the attempts to wake Sora. Considering Xemnas was using Xion and Roxas to trap Sora's power keeping him hostage would have played into his hands. 

Hmm, perhaps he abandoned the facility voluntarily? Maybe he decided Castle Oblivion was a more suitable place? Actually, come to think of it, why did Xemnas not stop Sora from being transferred to Twilight Town in the first place? C.O is also an Organization facility, arguably a mor evaluable one than the Mansion, why not attempt to take it back? He must've know DiZ would think to move the boy to get him out of their clutches, just a DiZ knew the castle wasn't safe for him. Soa wasn't moved for quite a while after the C.O. Org. members where wiped out, that's why Roxas fainted when he got there. too close to Sora, too close to Ven. Xemnas had plenty of time to take it back before that happened.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Hmm, perhaps he abandoned the facility voluntarily? Maybe he decided Castle Oblivion was a more suitable place?

Idk the Castle Oblivion facilities were researching the ramifications of memories as well as being the birth place of the Replica Project. We also know he was attempting to find the Chamber of Waking as an ulterior motive. It is my believe that Xemnas' real purpose for Castle Oblivion was to find a way to extract memories. If somehow Xemnas managed to find a way to extract memories from Aqua's armor he would be able to find Ventus. As for the Twilight Town facility it really comes down to how much Nomura is willing to retcon with his post KH3D story arc. Because we have to run the assumption that Xemnas was in the process of growing his own heart and we knew Xemnas had the ability to wield the Keyblade. So why would even need the assistance of the machines?

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Idk the Castle Oblivion facilities were researching the ramifications of memories as well as being the birth place of the Replica Project. We also know he was attempting to find the Chamber of Waking as an ulterior motive. It is my believe that Xemnas' real purpose for Castle Oblivion was to find a way to extract memories. If somehow Xemnas managed to find a way to extract memories from Aqua's armor he would be able to find Ventus. As for the Twilight Town facility it really comes down to how much Nomura is willing to retcon with his post KH3D story arc. Because we have to run the assumption that Xemnas was in the process of growing his own heart and we knew Xemnas had the ability to wield the Keyblade. So why would even need the assistance of the machines?

Well, we know he chose not to use the Keyblade in battle, though not why, whatever reason for that may be the same reason he didn't want to use it for the heart transfer.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Well, we know he chose not to use the Keyblade in battle, though not why, whatever reason for that may be the same reason he didn't want to use it for the heart transfer.

Yeah but we also know that Xemnas was keeping a lot from the other Organization members namely that he planned on turning them all into Xehanort clones. It makes sense that he hid the fact that he could wield the Keyblade. He didn't really want to show off the weapon that from the looks of KH3D turned a bulk load of them into Nobodies in the first place.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Yeah but we also know that Xemnas was keeping a lot from the other Organization members namely that he planned on turning them all into Xehanort clones. It makes sense that he hid the fact that he could wield the Keyblade. He didn't really want to show off the weapon that from the looks of KH3D turned a bulk load of them into Nobodies in the first place.

That could be the same reason he didn't want to use it to turn them into Xehanorts, then.

Maybe Nomura did intend Roxas to be born in TT, but that wasn't said in the original KH2. When 2FM came out and declared that Roxas was born there, then it was kind of weird that DiZ ended up in the same place. What's in Nomura's head doesn't count, it's what's in the games.

 

And I really don't like that any little detail can become a major plot point; it feels like grasping for straws when he doesn't need to be. Just write a new story or expand on major themes that've already been introduced, don't harp on the little stuff from older games.

Actually, I just read Secret Ansem Report No. 12 whach was present in the original game, before FM, that one stated that Twilight Town is where Roxas was reborn as a Nobody. And unlike the paragraph about the basement, there was no vagueness in it. So it was in the game, not just Nomura's head.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

Actually, I just read Secret Ansem Report No. 12 whach was present in the original game, before FM, that one stated that Twilight Town is where Roxas was reborn as a Nobody. And unlike the paragraph about the basement, there was no vagueness in it. So it was in the game, not just Nomura's head.

 

To be fair, it says he was "reborn" as a Nobody in TT, not that that was where he was created. That was just where Xemnas found him and brought him into the Organization. So he could have technically been created in Hollow Bastion, which would make sense given that's where Sora became a Heartless. (But making sense has never really been the priority I suppose.) Point is, it's worded vaguely enough that it doesn't make it clear exactly what Nomura meant.

Edited December 15, 2014 by HeyMouseSayCheese

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

To be fair, it says he was "reborn" as a Nobody in TT, not that that was where he was created. That was just where Xemnas found him and brought him into the Organization. So he could have technically been created in Hollow Bastion, which would make sense given that's where Sora became a Heartless. (But making sense has never really been the priority I suppose.) Point is, it's worded vaguely enough that it doesn't make it clear exactly what Nomura meant.

Being "reborn" is the same thing as begin "re-created" they are synonymous, it's not vague at all. Besides, an earlier report specifically states that when a person become a heartless in one world, the Nobody appears in an entirely different one. And, we've been using born and reborn interchangeably through the discussion, don''t try to avoid the point with semantics.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Isamu_Kuno

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

You know, that is quite the interesting theory you got there.  I guess that'd explain all the extra pods!  Who knows?  We might or might not ever know why there were more.  But I'm sure things will be shed to light in Kingdom Hearts III.

[KeybladeMasterBalo 504]

You do realize that those mirrors were meant to foreshadow Sora's Drive Forms, right?

Hahahaha you know I never noticed, and never even gave it a thought really. I always thought it was foreshadowing something for KHIII

[hatok 6,413]

To be fair, it says he was "reborn" as a Nobody in TT, not that that was where he was created. That was just where Xemnas found him and brought him into the Organization. So he could have technically been created in Hollow Bastion, which would make sense given that's where Sora became a Heartless. (But making sense has never really been the priority I suppose.) Point is, it's worded vaguely enough that it doesn't make it clear exactly what Nomura meant.

you're splitting hairs on the most insane degree

why can't you just accept that Roxas was born in Twilight Town and it was always meant that way? It's stated in the game, it's shown in later games, and explained in detail in DDD

This isn't some confusing unclear plot point, it's something we've known for years

[Joker 1,560]

Xion was in it?Xemnas did reprogram her