Anime | Manga DragonBall Z: Resurrection "F" (Official Discussion)

[outbackjim21 83]

New form looks cool and all, but now that vegeta will finally catch up to goku I want a true god fusion between the two of them. Super saiyan God vegito will just be...ahhhhh I can't even imagine how powerful he will be, we're probably talking destroy the whole universe kamehameha. I hope they avoid fusion dance though and use the potara earrings instead, or come up with some bullshit new type of potara fusion where they aren't permenantly stuck together, but can do it at will.

 

#6moviesAndASeries

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

New form looks cool and all, but now that vegeta will finally catch up to goku I want a true god fusion between the two of them. Super saiyan God vegito will just be...ahhhhh I can't even imagine how powerful he will be, we're probably talking destroy the whole universe kamehameha. I hope they avoid fusion dance though and use the potara earrings instead, or come up with some bullshit new type of potara fusion where they aren't permenantly stuck together, but can do it at will.#6moviesAndASeries

I prefer Gogeta even if he isn't canon (though the Fusion Dance is)Well they could use Potara and just let Majun Buu (the fat one) eat them when they want to separate. His body probably has the same genetic make up as Kid Buu.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[outbackjim21 83]

I prefer Gogeta even if he isn't canon (though the Fusion Dance is)Well they could use Potara and just let Majun Buu (the fat one) eat them when they want to separate. His body probably has the same genetic make up as Kid Buu.

to to each their own, but I just can't stand the fusion dance outfit, probably because in elementary school kids would take their shirt and pullit over their head and have the sleeves stay on their arms and pretend theiyre gotenks,...bad times.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

to to each their own, but I just can't stand the fusion dance outfit, probably because in elementary school kids would take their shirt and pullit over their head and have the sleeves stay on their arms and pretend theiyre gotenks,...bad times.

I get that the outfit is ridiculous, but I like Gogeta's face and personality better for some reason. I think it's because I prefer Goku to Vegeta and Vegito looks and acts more like the latter and Gogeta is closer to the former.

[outbackjim21 83]

But again wither or not he shows remorse if he didn't have a good heart, it wouldn't have worked. Of course that could have been circumvented if they had had both Videl and Bulma being pregnant at the time. If that had been the case, Bulla could have taken her fathers place.Moving on, it's really too bad Gogeta isn't canon. True Super Saiyan God Gogeta would have been epic.Still, the Fucion Dance is canon so maybe someday...?

no, you're pretty much right in this debate, vegeta has become a good person, we didn't see that true evolution of character UNTIL the buu saga, where allllll of vegeta' pent up hatred and jealousy toward goku finally reared itself after the past two sagas, where he, pretty much, reembodies every dark aspect of his character only to regret his action and, for once in his life, not only fights for the sake of another, but accepts the evil that he has done in the past by coming to terms with the fact that he wouldn't get a body in other world. What firaga is looking for is explicit material, when, more often than not, implicit material carries a much heavier note in terms of getting a point across. Just look at the very first scene we see vegeta in in BoG, he's training, but what is he doing in his training, he is showing that he has control by instead of just smashing the crap out of stuff which he would have done in his saiyan saga days, he has to be precise and control his movements, that speaks volumes in figurative terms on his growth as a person. Vegeta doesn't need some over the top cinematic dialogue to show he has changed, just by joining goku after the frieza saga we get the old "turn he bad guy good" trope that DBZ is known for. Besides this is a shounen, complete indepth characterization that relies on actual self introspection usually is only for seinen. Edited April 16, 2015 by outbackjim21

[Firaga 5,947]

no, you're pretty much right in this debate, vegeta has become a good person, we didn't see that true evolution of character UNTIL the buu saga, where allllll of vegeta' pent up hatred and jealousy toward goku finally reared itself after the past two sagas, where he, pretty much, reembodies every dark aspect of his character only to regret his action and, for once in his life, not only fights for the sake of another, but accepts the evil that he has done in the past by coming to terms with the fact that he wouldn't get a body in other world. What firaga is looking for is explicit material, when, more often than not, implicit material carries a much heavier note in terms of getting a point across. Just look at the very first scene we see vegeta in in BoG, he's training, but what is he doing in his training, he is showing that he has control by instead of just smashing the crap out of stuff which he would have done in his saiyan saga days, he has to be precise and control his movements, that speaks volumes in figurative terms on his growth as a person. Vegeta doesn't need some over the top cinematic dialogue to show he has changed, just by joining goku after the frieza saga we get the old "turn he bad guy good" trope that DBZ is known for. Besides this is a shounen, complete indepth characterization that relies on actual self introspection usually is only for seinen.

 

*sigh* I'm getting sick of talking about this.

 

Vegeta's character only started to change for the better after he lost his mind to an evil wizard (well, partially, because you know, "you can take my body, but you can't take my pride and yadda yadda yadda") and tried to once again defeat and kill Goku. Add that to the pile of other reckless and selfish actions and that should just permanently blacklist his chances of having any sort of morality. Again, everything he did in that arc doesn't make up for the pile. He's killed people. Betrayed people. Put people in danger. Put the entire Earth in danger. And yet, all he gets in terms of punishment is barely more than a slap on the wrist? That only focuses on what he did recently? Bull. Crap. Also, I don't care if he accepted that he wouldn't get a body in Other World, that doesn't help anything either. If he doesn't care about not having a body, then yes, he accepts his fate and understands his actions, but at the same time, he's brushing it off and not really giving a damn, and a good person has regret for their actions. Actual regret.

 

Also, your analysis of his BoG characterization doesn't help matters nor does it make any sense. He's in control of himself when he's training? Why the hell does that matter? He didn't fight like a brute before, training or no training. Sure, he was sadistic and had no mercy, but he didn't start beating his chest and start yelling his head off during any of his past fights. He's always been a controlled fighter. Before, he was just more intent to slaughter his opponent rather than just beat them. And no, it doesn't mean he's less reckless either because he was obviously reckless enough to fight Beerus in BoG.

 

It's a shounen? That's the excuse? Again, bullcrap. No genre of anime or manga, no genre of anything for that matter, has an excuse for bad characterization. None. It's a basic writing mechanic. But you know what, you're absolutely right on the point that DragonBall delivers its characterization in more subtle ways. It's rare that anybody really thinks out loud and everything is more based off their actions and reactions. But even so, Vegeta of all people should be one that can give us a freaking clue as to what direction his moral compass is pointing because a) he is perfectly capable of having long drawn out dialogues (i.e. Namek and Buu), b) out of all the characters in the main cast, he is the most bottled up and c) there is just not enough evidence to judge how much more good than evil he is in terms of the current age. He's done too much evil and not enough good to warrant him of having a pure heart.

[outbackjim21 83]

*sigh* I'm getting sick of talking about this. Vegeta's character only started to change for the better after he lost his mind to an evil wizard (well, partially, because you know, "you can take my body, but you can't take my pride and yadda yadda yadda") and tried to once again defeat and kill Goku. Add that to the pile of other reckless and selfish actions and that should just permanently blacklist his chances of having any sort of morality. Again, everything he did in that arc doesn't make up for the pile. He's killed people. Betrayed people. Put people in danger. Put the entire Earth in danger. And yet, all he gets in terms of punishment is barely more than a slap on the wrist? That only focuses on what he did recently? Bull. Crap. Also, I don't care if he accepted that he wouldn't get a body in Other World, that doesn't help anything either. If he doesn't care about not having a body, then yes, he accepts his fate and understands his actions, but at the same time, he's brushing it off and not really giving a damn, and a good person has regret for their actions. Actual regret. Also, your analysis of his BoG characterization doesn't help matters nor does it make any sense. He's in control of himself when he's training? Why the hell does that matter? He didn't fight like a brute before, training or no training. Sure, he was sadistic and had no mercy, but he didn't start beating his chest and start yelling his head off during any of his past fights. He's always been a controlled fighter. Before, he was just more intent to slaughter his opponent rather than just beat them. And no, it doesn't mean he's less reckless either because he was obviously reckless enough to fight Beerus in BoG. It's a shounen? That's the excuse? Again, bullcrap. No genre of anime or manga, no genre of anything for that matter, has an excuse for bad characterization. None. It's a basic writing mechanic. But you know what, you're absolutely right on the point that DragonBall delivers its characterization in more subtle ways. It's rare that anybody really thinks out loud and everything is more based off their actions and reactions. But even so, Vegeta of all people should be one that can give us a freaking clue as to what direction his moral compass is pointing because a) he is perfectly capable of having long drawn out dialogues (i.e. Namek and Buu), b) out of all the characters in the main cast, he is the most bottled up and c) there is just not enough evidence to judge how much more good than evil he is in terms of the current age. He's done too much evil and not enough good to warrant him of having a pure heart.

If vegeta was half the man he was during the saiyan sagaor frieza saga, he absolutely would not sacrifice himself for his family, he'll he would probably fly away and leave them to straight up die if that was the only way he would survive; you're also bringing up the word pure, the ONLY characters who even come close to being pure are members of goku's immediate family and Uub, that's not the proper context when describing any of the z warriors other than the ones I just listed, to be righteous means to make morally justifiable actions, yes, vegeta did plenty of fed up stuff in the earlier sagas, but you have to look at the buu saga as a way of condensing all of those actions into one personified moment, that moment being the creation of Majin vegeta. After his sacrifice it's not hard to say that was a proverbial wiping of the slate, it doesn't excuse those previous actions indefinitely, but it is definitely a step in the right direction of vegeta being shown as a genuinely good person.I honestly don't see how you are argueing the words of Shenron though, the being who surprises even the supreme kais in terms of ability, if he says you need a righteous heart and the SSJG form was a success than end of story, all those involved had a righteous heart. Vegeta doesn't have to say crap to prove that he has one, he threw away his pride the ultimate facet of his entire character just to protect his wife, son, the entire planet, and again, he knows full well that beerus would destroy him in a fight yet he goes in any way even if there was a slim chance of saving everyone.Thered not enough evidence to show that he is good? Have you watched the show? He has shown time and time again that he not the sadistic asshole that he was in the saiyan/frieza sagas, he is pride incarnate, but that DOES NOT make him evil, if you thought you could make the game winning shot and you failed, does that make you a bad player, no, he genuinely thought he could crush cell at his perfect form, it doesn't excuse the fact that he risked the world,but there was no evil intent behind those actions, just, "I want to fight you at Youre strongest" which even goku did with frieza...does that make goku evil? Vegeta pulls a fricking 180 on us during the buu saga, shows that he is willing to fight for his family, sacrifices himself so that they can live, even begs the world to help goku with spirit bomb, how has he not proven that he isn't "evil" . I mean, come on, look at piccolo, a being who is literally meant to be evil incarnate, yet he does every single thing that vegeta has also done later, teams up with goku against a common threat, they actually become allies, mingles with the members of the cast, shows affection for a child and ultimately sacrifices himself for said child and comes back a better person, two very similar character arcs, yet vegeta is the one who needs to expliclty state that he is good now?, yes kami commented on piccolo becoming good, but that shouldn't matter, I mean, Shenron, a being who surpasses kami says something about a character's alignment and the notion gets rejected, so maybe piccolo is still just an evil demon spawn.

[Firaga 5,947]

If vegeta was half the man he was during the saiyan sagaor frieza saga, he absolutely would not sacrifice himself for his family, he'll he would probably fly away and leave them to straight up die if that was the only way he would survive; you're also bringing up the word pure, the ONLY characters who even come close to being pure are members of goku's immediate family and Uub, that's not the proper context when describing any of the z warriors other than the ones I just listed, to be righteous means to make morally justifiable actions, yes, vegeta did plenty of fed up stuff in the earlier sagas, but you have to look at the buu saga as a way of condensing all of those actions into one personified moment, that moment being the creation of Majin vegeta. After his sacrifice it's not hard to say that was a proverbial wiping of the slate, it doesn't excuse those previous actions indefinitely, but it is definitely a step in the right direction of vegeta being shown as a genuinely good person.I honestly don't see how you are argueing the words of Shenron though, the being who surprises even the supreme kais in terms of ability, if he says you need a righteous heart and the SSJG form was a success than end of story, all those involved had a righteous heart. Vegeta doesn't have to say crap to prove that he has one, he threw away his pride the ultimate facet of his entire character just to protect his wife, son, the entire planet, and again, he knows full well that beerus would destroy him in a fight yet he goes in any way even if there was a slim chance of saving everyone.Thered not enough evidence to show that he is good? Have you watched the show? He has shown time and time again that he not the sadistic asshole that he was in the saiyan/frieza sagas, he is pride incarnate, but that DOES NOT make him evil, if you thought you could make the game winning shot and you failed, does that make you a bad player, no, he genuinely thought he could crush cell at his perfect form, it doesn't excuse the fact that he risked the world,but there was no evil intent behind those actions, just, "I want to fight you at Youre strongest" which even goku did with frieza...does that make goku evil? Vegeta pulls a fricking 180 on us during the buu saga, shows that he is willing to fight for his family, sacrifices himself so that they can live, even begs the world to help goku with spirit bomb, how has he not proven that he isn't "evil" . I mean, come on, look at piccolo, a being who is literally meant to be evil incarnate, yet he does every single thing that vegeta has also done later, teams up with goku against a common threat, they actually become allies, mingles with the members of the cast, shows affection for a child and ultimately sacrifices himself for said child and comes back a better person, two very similar character arcs, yet vegeta is the one who needs to expliclty state that he is good now?, yes kami commented on piccolo becoming good, but that shouldn't matter, I mean, Shenron, a being who surpasses kami says something about a character's alignment and the notion gets rejected, so maybe piccolo is still just an evil demon spawn.

 

Don't bring Piccolo into this. He's a saint compared to Vegeta. I shouldn't have to explain why either, he hasn't done nearly the amount of damage that Vegeta has. The worst he has done is failing to defeat Goku at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and also failed to make Gohan his minion. Personally, I think more insight should have given to him regardless, but whatever.

 

Now then: You don't seem to be understanding what I'm trying to say (nobody really has so far). I recognize Vegeta's actions throughout the series, both good and bad, and yes, what he did in the Buu Saga and in BoG was very honorable... but at the same time, why should I care about any of it if he himself does not acknowledge it?

 

My problem with Vegeta is that his character doesn't feel like it has changed. His actions are there, yes, but there's no substance. There is no new mentality shown. Sure, he gets all emotional about his family and crap, but that doesn't matter when his past actions combined with what he did in the Buu Saga add up to a giant pile of crimes and misdeeds. Do you understand what I'm saying? I mean, he definitely feels regret for what he did in the Buu Saga, it is made very clear. But I guess everything else has to be swept under the rug because that would just make things worse. He refuses to think about everything and just focuses on the present. He doesn't even refer to anything he did in Saiyan up to Cell, especially when there are plenty of bad deeds to note of in their particular arcs.

 

What really pushes it though would probably have to be everybody but Vegeta. I'm of course referring to Goku, Bulma, and the others. I mean, was it really logical for them to be so open-armed to him after Namek? Yamcha, in DBZA, actually brings up a good point where he points out how lenient they are being towards Vegeta even after he slaughtered all of their friends and nearly cost Goku his life. What kind of transition is that? And now in current time, everybody just thinks he's a grumpy pants who occasionally lashes out. He's a freaking murderer, and yet they just seem to get over it pretty quickly. I-I just don't get it.

 

It's the combination of that plus the general dismissal of Vegeta, who again pretty much shrugs off anything he does, that lead me to believe the way I do. Actions, writing conventions made by Shenron or Dende, and any other crap; none of this works for me. I need to hear it from the horse's mouth, but unfortunately, he doesn't feel like talking.

 

And now I've reached a point where this conversation and topic in general is starting to irritate and I will ask that anybody who wishes to continue to debate this with me just... don't. Just stop. It's done with. I get it, none of you agree with me. Whatever. Just leave me alone with my unwanted opinion.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Reyn 1,755]

So...RoF came out a few days ago. And i'm just here waiting for the dub whenever it shows up.

 

Of course, i went ahead and spoiled myself by reading what happens in the movie on Wikipedia because i'm not gonna stay waiting in anticipation for the movie's dub or for the JP version to go on DVD for me to actually be able to watch it online. All i'll say about the ending (no spoilers in the spoiler tag, just my initial thoughts on it, i went out of my way to avoid spoiling any real events of the ending):

 

 

It's...Not what i expected TBH. I definitely can imagine why things went down the way they did if someone had told me what was going to happen before i confirmed it for myself, but the description made it seem like the movie just...ends after the final battle, lol. Like, just the battle ends, and then that's it, no seeing the characters's thoughts and actions post Battle like in BoG after Beerus and Whis left planet and Bulma started bitch slapping Goku for not coming to help the Z-Fighters when Bills was kicking their asses, lol.

 

 

Also, gonna say this and call it, i'm patenting The Blue Haired SSJ form's official name (whenever it's announced) as True Super Saiyan. Or something along those lines. I guess we could go with the obvious route and go "Super Saiyan God 2", since that's basically what Goku did when SSJ2 was originally known as just "An Unprecedented SSJ Form that Gohan Unlocked", but i like the sound of TSSJ better.

Edited April 20, 2015 by BlazingArachnid99

[Firaga 5,947]

*coughTSSJGsuckscoughsMSSJGisbettercoughs*

Edited April 21, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Reyn 1,755]

*coughTSSJGsuckscoughsMSSJGisbettercoughs*

*coughidunnowhattheMstandsforinMSSJGcoughs*

 

*coughsialsosaidTSSJnotTSSJGithinkitsoundsbetterwithouttheGparttobehonestcoughs*

[Firaga 5,947]

*coughidunnowhattheMstandsforinMSSJGcoughs*

 

*coughsialsosaidTSSJnotTSSJGithinkitsoundsbetterwithouttheGparttobehonestcoughs*

 

*coughtitstandsforMasteredcough*

 

*coughthat'sjustconfusingbecauseitsusingGodpowerandnotusingregularSuperSaiyanpowerandalsobecauseitsactuallybothcough*

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

 

*coughtitstandsforMasteredcough*

 

*coughthat'sjustconfusingbecauseitsusingGodpowerandnotusingregularSuperSaiyanpowerandalsobecauseitsactuallybothcough*

Tell you what, we can call the blue haired version Mastered Super Saiyan God, but when the white haired version comes out (because it's following flame colors and white is hotter than blue) we'll cal that True Super Saiyan God.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[Reyn 1,755]

*coughtitstandsforMasteredcough*

 

*coughthat'sjustconfusingbecauseitsusingGodpowerandnotusingregularSuperSaiyanpowerandalsobecauseitsactuallybothcough*

*coughsokthatactuallysoundsbetterthanTSSJilladmitcoughs*

 

Tell you what, we can call the blue haired version Mastered Super Saiyan God, but when the white haired version comes out (because it's following flame colors and white is hotter than blue) we'll cal that True Super Saiyan God.

Yes, we'll do that. Whenever we get the third canon DBZ movie (which we probably will in another 2 years) and that happens.

[Firaga 5,947]

Tell you what, we can call the blue haired version Mastered Super Saiyan God, but when the white haired version comes out (because it's following flame colors and white is hotter than blue) we'll cal that True Super Saiyan God.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

 

By this chart, Super Saiyan God is weaker that Super Saiyan

[Firaga 5,947]

By this chart, Super Saiyan God is weaker that Super Saiyan

 

Smartass.

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

Smartass.

At least it's better than 'dumbass' lol

 

To clarify, I'm not calling you a dumbass, just making a joke.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[Firaga 5,947]

At least it's better than 'dumbass' lol

 

To clarify, I'm not calling you a dumbass, just making a joke.

 

I know you are, dumbass/shot

[Firaga 5,947]

Breaking news:

 

DragonBall Z: Resurrection 'F' will be in US theaters for a limited time from August 4 to August 12.

 

You can go to the official DBZ website to get more details: http://dragonballz.com/

[Shulk 8,623]

Tickets for the August theater showings are now for sale. Theater locations are also available to view. You can view theaters through the movie's website: http://www.dragonballz.com/

 

Anyone else going to go see the movie in August?