Anime | Manga DragonBall Z: Resurrection "F" (Official Discussion)

[Isamu Kuno 2,512]

 

Yeah, I still have a problem with that. I might as well explain why:

 

I used to think that the notion of Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan God in "Revival of F" was a great idea. But now that I've thought about it, I'm not so sure anymore. A lot of people say that Vegeta rightfully deserves it based on his past and his relationship with Frieza, but I think those people sort of forget some important factoids about Vegeta's life.

 

You see, Vegeta, for lack of a better word, was a prick. A ruthless, uncaring spoiled brat who only cared about attaining power. It was only until his encounters with Goku and his friends that he slowly became a better person, first notably seen with his actions in the Buu arc after he fought Goku for the second time. He proved this mindset has stuck with him in Battle of Gods when he threw away his pride to keep Lord Beerus from harming his friends and family... that said, the Super Saiyan God power requires that you have a righteous heart. For somebody like Goku, it's obvious, but for Vegeta? ... I really don't know.

 

First off, what did Vegeta atone for in his actions in the Buu arc? Mostly his obsession with beating Goku getting in the way of things. That's fine and dandy, but when you really step back and look at it... it's honestly not enough. This person has done far worse in his lifetime. He's slaughtered countless lives under the reign of Frieza. He was uncaring towards the death of his partner Raditz and willingly killed his other partner Nappa when he found him to be useless, the last two pureblood members of his kind, sans Goku and Tarble, and two who have worked alongside him for many years. Plus there is the moments in arcs where his pride spelled disaster for everybody around him, like when he allowed Cell to reach his perfect form and helped Buu re-emerge from his seal, and if you think about it, he helped Frieza power up as well. And as far as we know, he's still somewhat apathetic to his brother Tarble. I mean, does he have any regret for his actions? Does he regret being a killer and a fool? Is he upset that his own little brother was sent off to a distant planet because their father thought he was too weak to live? If given the chance, would he apologize to Raditz and Nappa? Would he apologize for ANY wrong thing he has done ever in his lifetime?

 

If the answer is no, then I don't think he deserves to be a Super Saiyan God. It's hard to tell if it's a no or a yes really. We don't get too many peaks into Vegeta's mindset. But in "Revival of F", I want to see a peak, just so we can confirm Vegeta's true feelings and not be left with mostly ambiguity and sweeping things under the rug. I'm not saying Vegeta needs to get on his knees and beg for forgiveness from anybody. If he himself just acknowledges that he was a bad person and has done bad things, with maybe some extra catharsis from from the people around him, I would be satisfied. And no, his relationship with Frieza doesn't cut it either. His hatred for Frieza stems from him making him his grunt and stepping on his pride. Yes, he showed sadness in the fact that Frieza casted genocide on his people, but again, that can be tailored back to his pride as a Saiyan overall. Like I said, he willingly killed Nappa on his own terms. If he really cared for his brethren that much, I'm not sure he would do something like that. His entire speech was probably only given because he thought he would die and had to leave everything to Goku.

 

This is a very well thought out argument and worthy of consideration.But I still want SSJG Gogeta.

And what about when he blew himself up in a failed attempt to stop Buu? That has to count for something, doesn't it?

 

Oh, another thing I want, Super Frieza, where he enters a For like Cooler's transformation.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Isamu_Kuno

[Firaga 5,947]

And what about when he blew himself up in a failed attempt to stop Buu? That has to count for something, doesn't it?

 

It makes up for everything he did to affect Goku, but it still doesn't wipe the slate clean of everything else. He still killed a bunch of innocent people, Raditz, Nappa, and everything else I mentioned. One failed self-destruct doesn't make up for that. There needs to be more.

[Firaga 5,947]

A new trailer has been released for the movie. The biggest thing to take away from it would be the look of what appears to be Frieza's new transformation slated to appear in the movie, as well as new shots of Goku, Vegeta, and much more.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3BKKbcKEtk

 

 

What I find personally interesting is the shot of

Jaco The Galactic Patrolman at 0:49-0:50

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Shulk 8,623]

AGH FREAKING SPOILERS WITH THE PICTURE LEAK MAN

 

 

Also, will watch the trailer when I get home. Vegeta had better do more than wet himself in this one.

[Firaga 5,947]

AGH FREAKING SPOILERS WITH THE PICTURE LEAK MANAlso, will watch the trailer when I get home. Vegeta had better do more than wet himself in this one.

 

Sorry. Fixed it.

 

And yes, he does/shot

Edited March 3, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Shulk 8,623]

Sorry. Fixed it. And yes, he does/shot

I meant the other video. The one about a picture leak. I'm pretty sure it's fake because Toriyama's giving Vegeta the short end of the stick as usual, but a spoiler tag in case the one thing I most wanted to see in the movie WAS leaked would have been nice.

[Firaga 5,947]

I meant the other video. The one about a picture leak. I'm pretty sure it's fake because Toriyama's giving Vegeta the short end of the stick as usual, but a spoiler tag in case the one thing I most wanted to see in the movie WAS leaked would have been nice.

 

Those pictures are taken from the trailer though...

[AaySquare 445]

Can't wait for the movie! Hope it releases in English soon after Japan. 

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by AaySquare

[Firaga 5,947]

Can't wait for the movie! Hope it releases in English soon after Japan. 

 

 

 

 

Put that in spoiler tags because of you-know-what.

 

Also I posted this trailer already.

 

WHY DOES NOBODY READ ANYTHING ON HEEEEEERE?! DX

Edited March 3, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[AaySquare 445]

Put that in spoiler tags because of you-know-what.

 

Also I posted this trailer already.

 

WHY DOES NOBODY READ ANYTHING ON HEEEEEERE?! DX

and you-know-what??? 

sorry about that.  :sad:

I read everything but spoiler lol

[Firaga 5,947]

and you-know-what??? 

sorry about that.  :sad:

I read everything but spoiler lol

 

The trailer was in the spoilers because of

Frieza's new transformation

 

[AaySquare 445]

The trailer was in the spoilers because of

Frieza's new transformation

 

But why considering it as a spoiler when it's in the official trailer itself + it's all over the Internet now. 

[Firaga 5,947]

But why considering it as a spoiler when it's in the official trailer itself + it's all over the Internet now. 

 

Because Shulk was complaining earlier about spoilers so I put it in tags. 

 

Though now I guess it doesn't matter.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Shulk 8,623]

Because Shulk was complaining earlier about spoilers so I put it in tags. 

 

Though now I guess it doesn't matter.

I was complaining about the

 

 

"VEGETA GOES SUPER SAIYAN GOD IN THE NEW MOVIE?"

 

 

Thing you casually threw up. I thought we went over it that I don't care about the form.

[Firaga 5,947]

I was complaining about the

 

 

"VEGETA GOES SUPER SAIYAN GOD IN THE NEW MOVIE?"

 

 

Thing you casually threw up. I thought we went over it that I don't care about the form.

 

That was speculation, not spoilers. I mean

Frieza's new God form

was the spoiler.

[Shulk 8,623]

That was speculation, not spoilers. I mean

Frieza's new God form

was the spoiler.

The title was misleading then, considering that it had no mention of it being speculation.

 

We all knew Frieza would get a new form, I don't see how that's a spoiler.

[Weedanort 8,786]

 

WELP FRIEZA

 

YOU WERE SO JEALOUS OF GOKU'S HAIR, YOU WENT GOLDEN 

 

I can just imagine TFS's take on this

 

Frieza: Oh God, not that horrendous golden hair again!

Goku: So is your body...

Frieza: IT IS?

 

[Firaga 5,947]

The title was misleading then, considering that it had no mention of it being speculation.

 

The title put everything in question marks and it explains that there was leaked pictures. Its speculation

 

Seriously people, READ MY SHIT DX

 

I'M SO LOOOOONELEEEEEY!

[Shulk 8,623]

The title put everything in question marks and it explains that there was leaked pictures. Its speculation Seriously people, READ MY SHIT DX I'M SO LOOOOONELEEEEEY!

Mobile. Couldn't see anything past the mention of a leak and SSJG Vegeta.

[Firaga 5,947]

Mobile. Couldn't see anything past the mention of a leak and SSJG Vegeta.

 

Oh. That explains it.

 

Anyways, small update: I found a different version of the trailer, this time with subtitles. As well as some... *ahem*... special content at the end. For those of you who saw one of my latest threads in the random section, you probably know what I'm talking about.

 

EDIT: I had to switch the video with a new one because the original one was taken down. Unfortunatley, the English subtitles are gone and replaced with Spanish. I apologize for not talking enough about what is being said in the trailer and will try to find another English subbed version of the trailer to see what it says.

 

 

Also I would like to bring up the fact that, again, Jaco the Galactic Patrolman will be making a apperance in the movie. Why that is? Nobody knows. But I"m personally curious as to why.

 

Jaco in the trailer:

 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Shulk 8,623]

That special content... Holy crap yes. Now we just need to see people like Piccolo, Krillin, Yamcha, and Videl dance and I will be happy.

[Weedanort 8,786]

That dance was... creepy o.o

[Firaga 5,947]

Recently I made a status explaining that I have a slight issue with the potential of Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan God in FnF. Below is a post I made recently on another website in order to clear up some confusion and reassess my reasoning.

 

Warning: This piece is very long and contains opinions. Detailed opinions. Which means if you have a problem with it, give me some actual discussion worthy counter-arguments so I don't have to feel like you didn't read anything and just think I'm a moron. Because I'm not.

 

First off, I'd like to point out that I still stand by everything I have said... mostly. But, I feel like people are sort of getting the wrong idea of the point I am trying to make. And it's not just you guys here. I've talked about this in other places too. Still, let me take a moment to streamline my initial thoughts and see if I can make things clearer.

 

I want to start by saying this first: I l really, really really, do like Vegeta. He's not in my top 5 favorite characters (which are Piccolo, Krillin, 18, Future Trunks, and Lord Beerus) but he is most definitely number 6. He is also easily one of the best handled characters in the ENTIRE series, much better than even Goku, I'd argue, and he's the main character... but... concerning the topic of him becoming a SSJ God and getting his revenge on Frieza in Fukkatsu no F, I can't help but have some questionable thoughts about it.

 

To reiterate, Vegeta started off as a villainous character who did not care for much except getting stronger. It was not until his interactions with Goku when he started to slooooooowly become a better person. Sort of. By the end of the series, Vegeta is considered a more-or-less good person. I don't necessarily disagree with this... but there are some things to take into account when talking about this.

 

The main issues I have with Vegeta becoming a SSJ God is because of his motivations for doing so, his credibility of achieving such power, and using it against Frieza. 

 

First off: his revenge against Frieza holds no weight other than him being upset at him for stepping on his pride. The fact that Frieza commited genocide against his race only affects Vegeta on a scale that it made him and the rest of the Saiyans look like weaklings. He has never shown affection for his own father or his comrades Raditz and Nappa. He literally gave zero cares to Raditz's death and willingly killed Nappa on his own volition when he believed him to be useless to his plan of taking the Dragon Balls. At this point, Vegeta, supposedly, SHOULD be upset at Frieza for more than his pride because supposedly, he is able to feel empathy now, to a certain extent.

 

Second, the fact that Vegeta is even labeled with a "righteous heart", the main requirement to become a SSJ God, in the first place is a bit disconcerning. The definition(s) of "righteous" is "morally right", "justified", "virtuous", "very good", and "excellent".... do any of these words fit Vegeta? Not really. Not even HE believes he's righteous. He was INSULTED by the notion that Dende and Krillin made in BoG that he had a heart like that. I mean, just because something is said about somebody, doesn't make it automatically true. I could say right now that I'm the Queen of France, but if I have no evidence to prove it or even slightly justify it, then I'm just a big fat liar. Yes, Vegeta made sacrifices to his pride and well being in both Buu Arc and BoG. He has done good deeds for the sake of others.... BUT... TWO deeds does not make up for everything he has ever done in his entire life, which other than those two deeds involves murder, betrayal, and general dickheadedness.

 

All of these issues I have would probably be non-existent if it weren't for Vegeta's lack of depth into his thought process. Considering DragonBall's basic structure, its sort of a given tbh. Rarely do characters give the reader an honest-to-God insight into how they tick. Its just not the type of story DragonBall is. But for Vegeta's case, I think we can make an exception. After all, considering he wants to attain a power that requires him to be righteous, shouldn't he be proving just how righteous he is? Shouldn't he be audibly admitting to us, the fans, that he understands he has done wrong in the past, has regrets, and wants to better himself from it by becoming a God not only to attain its power but to use it to protect the people he has come to care about and take revenge on the person who not just made him into his minon but more importantly has slaughtered his people and caused harm to everything he now holds dear? Isn't that so much better than just him getting the power because "lol, I'm stronger now" and not even acknowledging anything I described?

 

I don't know. It just seems right to me. Even if Vegeta doesn't do any of this, I'll enjoy Fukkatsu no F regardless. I just think this is a great opportunity for Vegeta to have some catharsis  in a situation that sort of demands it in a way and make up for the fact that he has literally never done that before in the series.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Firaga Sensei

[Shulk 8,623]

Keep in mind that the whole incident with Nappa and Raditz took place years ago. He felt no remorse then, sure. However, would he do the same thing now? Back then, he was cruel and didn't care for his comrades. However, we know that's different now. He saved everyone when Beerus was getting angry, and when Buu awoke again. If he was the same character he was when he first appeared, he wouldn't have cared. Look at it this way: Did he kill Future Trunks, or Krillin, or Tien, or any of the Z Fighters for being too weak? Did he not show any remorse when Future Trunks died in the Cell Saga? No, he cares about his comrades now. His development hasn't been thrown in the face of everyone. It's much more subtle. He's changed quite a bit from how he was at the start of the series.

 

In terms of Nappa and Raditz specifically: They're bad guys. You think he'd feel bad about killing them, or their deaths now that he's with the Z Fighters? If anything, he just spared himself and his friends potential trouble in the future. Now, maybe he does feel bad about killing his own partner. Again, his development has been more subtle. Maybe the movie will go into this? We don't know anything for now.

 

As for his motivation to become a SSJG, you don't know that that's all he has. He looked angry about Goku being defeated by Frieza. It could be to avenge his friend. I mean, as I've said, I don't think he'll get to go SSJG in this movie. However, I'm sure he has more reasons that he'd want to use the power. He'd want to protect his friends. He'd want to protect Earth. If he really didn't care about these, he would've let Beerus destroy the planet and stolen a ship to escape or something like that. It's really obvious that he's changed.

[Firaga 5,947]

Keep in mind that the whole incident with Nappa and Raditz took place years ago. He felt no remorse then, sure. However, would he do the same thing now? Back then, he was cruel and didn't care for his comrades. However, we know that's different now. He saved everyone when Beerus was getting angry, and when Buu awoke again. If he was the same character he was when he first appeared, he wouldn't have cared. Look at it this way: Did he kill Future Trunks, or Krillin, or Tien, or any of the Z Fighters for being too weak? Did he not show any remorse when Future Trunks died in the Cell Saga? No, he cares about his comrades now. His development hasn't been thrown in the face of everyone. It's much more subtle. He's changed quite a bit from how he was at the start of the series.

 

In terms of Nappa and Raditz specifically: They're bad guys. You think he'd feel bad about killing them, or their deaths now that he's with the Z Fighters? If anything, he just spared himself and his friends potential trouble in the future. Now, maybe he does feel bad about killing his own partner. Again, his development has been more subtle. Maybe the movie will go into this? We don't know anything for now.

 

As for his motivation to become a SSJG, you don't know that that's all he has. He looked angry about Goku being defeated by Frieza. It could be to avenge his friend. I mean, as I've said, I don't think he'll get to go SSJG in this movie. However, I'm sure he has more reasons that he'd want to use the power. He'd want to protect his friends. He'd want to protect Earth. If he really didn't care about these, he would've let Beerus destroy the planet and stolen a ship to escape or something like that. It's really obvious that he's changed.

 

It doesn't matter if Raditz and Nappa were "bad guys". Yes, they were Saiyans who loved to fight and conquered planets but Vegeta proved that he was the worst of the three regardless. Raditz, before he did what he did, at least offered Goku to join him and the others. If Vegeta was in his place, he would have skipped the kidnapping Gohan part and or pretty much anything after Goku said "no" and started killing people. Also, Nappa is shown to be somewhat sympathetic as well. First off, he actually gives somewhat of a damn about Raditz's death while Vegeta is like "Meh. Whatever." Also, when Nappa is floored by Goku, he asks Vegeta for his help. He genuinely trusted his own partner and was surprised when Vegeta betrayed him. Raditz and Nappa at least showed some form of morality towards each other. It doesn't matter if they were so called villains, the three Saiyans were partners and the last of their kind, sans Goku and later Tarble. You would think Vegeta would at least care somewhat about them as more than just his pawns especially if he's gets so pissed off at Frieza for killing off the rest of them when he finds out later.

 

Again, his actions do not pay off. The problem is that Vegeta is shown to have done more bad deeds than good, so when its time for him to have a supposed character change, the bad overrides the good. And even the good things he done still don't add up. He got mad after Trunks died? He spent his time with Trunks doing nothing but berating him. The only thing that is proven is when he dies is how much of a terrible father he is when only now that he is dead that he actually gives a damn. He saved everybody from Buu? He caused the problem. He allowed Buu to be freed in the first place because he decided to turn Majin and fight Goku again. He sacrificed himself to stop Buu afterwards? Again, he caused the problem. And his sacrifice only means something to Goku, Bulma, Trunks and the consensus of their friend group. Does killing Buu (and failing) make up for the innocent lives he took in his earlier years? Maybe if while he was in Other World he went to all of them and said "sorry for being a shithead". But that didn't happen. He did the stupid (yet awesome) bingo dance and helped keep Beerus in check? Again, still doesn't make up for anything else. None of these deeds will ever erase the pain and misery Vegeta has caused others.

 

"Avenge his friend"? Vegeta and Goku will never be friends. Not unless Vegeta has the balls to say it. Goku might say it, but that doesn't make it true. They're rivals. They will always be rivals and it will never evolve into anything else unless, I don't know, pigs fly... which in this universe is actually possible, especially if Oolong turns into a bat or something... actually wait he did that one time.... uh... asdfghjk you get my point!!

 

Anyways: I think you're getting me wrong about something. I am not saying that Vegeta doesn't care about anybody or anything. He used to not care about anybody or anything, but then he met Goku and the others and yadda yadda yadda. But, he doesn't show remorse for his past actions either, so why should I give a damn? Especially if he has the chance to gain more power if he has a righteous heart which is baffling to me even if BoG confirmed it because its wrong. Being righteous means that you are morally right or virtuous. How can Vegeta be "morally right" if he doesn't even have the good sense to understand he's been a shithead for 80% of his lifetime and actually have remorse for his past actions? And even if he is: how do we know? He is so boxed up that he never even lets us, the viewers/fans, what's going through his skull half the time. For all we know, he doesn't give a damn and only cares about the present. That is not the qualities of a righteous person. A righetous person, like Goku, not only learns from his mistakes but accepts that he even made mistakes in the first place.

 

There is just no hope for Vegeta in my eyes to become a SSJ God the correct way unless he gives us some leeway.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Firaga Sensei