KH3D Something I don't get about Xehanort...

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

...or Young Xehanort, rather. When Ansem SoD goes back in time (somehow?) and tell him to go through time (somehow???) and gather members for the True Org. XIII, why does Young Xehanort do it? Why does he instantly listen to what the creepy evil spirit future version of himself tells him? I feel like if I met my own evil ghost from the future and he told me to help him with his evil plans, I would be skeptical, at the very least.

 

For a while, I thought Young Xehanort was possessed or influenced by Master Xehanort's darkness or whatever into doing his bidding, but playing through DDD again, I'm not noticing anything that implies that. So he just immediately agrees to be evil I guess?

[awesomeinmyworld 268]

YX agrees because jumping through time and visiting other worlds is an adventure, and for someone who grew up on a small island world, it's an opportunity of a lifetime. This journey was also made YX to want to explore worlds in the first: he knew that there was more out there.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

YX agrees because jumping through time and visiting other worlds is an adventure, and for someone who grew up on a small island world, it's an opportunity of a lifetime. This journey was also made YX to want to explore worlds in the first: he knew that there was more out there.

 

But it's so evil. What kind of crazy sociopath do you have to be to see traveling through time and gathering multiple versions of yourself to help jump start an apocalyptic event as an 'adventure'? Does YX mutilate animals in his spare time too? Maybe set fire to homeless people?

 

Also firetruck that 'made him want to explore other worlds' crap. He forgot everything that happened, and having the experience 'etch itself onto his heart' is just maddeningly stupid. Xion got etched into people's hearts too and that didn't mean shit once she got retconned out of existence.

Edited November 8, 2014 by HeyMouseSayCheese

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

But it's so evil. What kind of crazy sociopath do you have to be to see traveling through time and gathering multiple versions of yourself to help jump start an apocalyptic event as an 'adventure'? Does YX mutilate animals in his spare time too? Maybe set fire to homeless people?

 

Also firetruck that 'made him want to explore other worlds' crap. He forgot everything that happened, and having the experience 'etch itself onto his heart' is just maddeningly stupid.

It's people who say blindly simple-minded things like "Xehanort is just evil and that's it" that makes me hit my head on the wall every night. 

 

Xehanort said it himself, "This world is just too small." He was tired of the simple isolated life of being an islander and when the opportunity to leave came, he took it. Also, the fact that it was destined to happen anyway means that he was kind of obligated to go along with it anyway. And while I wouldn't say that Xehanort was necessarily "evil" right from the start, I would say that he did find the prospect of gaining all of that power and shaping the world in a way that he would have control over sounded pretty appealing to him. He was pragmatic, I'll give him that, but he still had the personality that allowed him to do such terrible things without feeling an ounce of guilt over them. He must have gotten really tired of that island.  

Edited November 8, 2014 by Hero of Light XIV

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

It's people who say blindly simple-minded things like "Xehanort is just evil and that's it" that makes me hit my head on the wall every night. 

 

Xehanort said it himself, "This world is just too small." He was tired of the simple isolated life of being an islander and when the opportunity to leave came, he took it. Also, the fact that it was destined to happen anyway means that he was kind of obligated to go along with it anyway. And while I wouldn't say that Xehanort was necessarily "evil" right from the start, I would say that he did find the prospect of gaining all of that power and shaping the world in a way that he would have control over sounded pretty appealing to him. He was pragmatic, I'll give him that, but he still had the personality that allowed him to do such terrible things without feeling an ounce of guilt over them. He must have gotten really tired of that island.  

 

Dude, you're defending the villain who's single handedly caused the misery of every protagonist in the series. Maybe hitting your head on the wall every night is giving you brain damage.

 

Even if YX didn't start off inherently evil- and I'm really doubting that at this point- Xehanort's heart that visited him in the past was evil at that point. So if YX isn't evil, why did he immediately trust someone who absolutely is evil? It's just not something stable-minded people do.

[littleTSUBAME 483]

Dude, you're defending the villain who's single handedly caused the misery of every protagonist in the series. Maybe hitting your head on the wall every night is giving you brain damage. Even if YX didn't start off inherently evil- and I'm really doubting that at this point- Xehanort's heart that visited him in the past was evil at that point. So if YX isn't evil, why did he immediately trust someone who absolutely is evil? It's just not something stable-minded people do.

People aren't evil just for the sake of being evil (actually being good/evil is pretty much a matter of opinion, most people just share the same idea on that matter). I think Xehanort was curious to see what's outside the island and what his future self's plan would cause. I doubt he cared much for other people to begin with, so he didn't care what'd happen to them. So yeah, I guess he didn't fully trust his other self, but was too tempted to decline. I think Xehanort pretty much sees the life as one big experiment.I'm not saying that it's not possible for him to have some mental problems, like sociopathy, because that's very likely.At least that's how I see it.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

People aren't evil just for the sake of being evil (actually being good/evil is pretty much a matter of opinion, most people just share the same idea on that matter). I think Xehanort was curious to see what's outside the island and what his future self's plan would cause. I doubt he cared much for other people to begin with, so he didn't care what'd happen to them. So yeah, I guess he didn't fully trust his other self, but was too tempted to decline. I think Xehanort pretty much sees the life as one big experiment.I'm not saying that it's not possible for him to have some mental problems, like sociopathy, because that's very likely.At least that's how I see it.

 

I disagree on good/evil matter of opinion thing; there are gray ares in life, but there is absolutely a point where actions are objectively evil. Actively taking part in a plan to remake the most dangerous weapon ever to exist out of curiosity is certainly close to that point, if not long past it.

 

I really wish they'd put more into YX's personality; he's so one note, he comes off as just mindlessly evil like this. (Imagine if when Riku goes to Destiny islands toward the end of the story, he sees YX struggling with whether or not to believe his future self's heart, and come to the decision that satiating his curiosity outweighs the risks.It'd be such a cool thing to see the seeds of Master Xehanort being planted. Of course, that's pretending the writers would give a shit. )

[littleTSUBAME 483]

I disagree on good/evil matter of opinion thing; there are gray ares in life, but there is absolutely a point where actions are objectively evil. Actively taking part in a plan to remake the most dangerous weapon ever to exist out of curiosity is certainly close to that point, if not long past it. I really wish they'd put more into YX's personality; he's so one note, he comes off as just mindlessly evil like this. (Imagine if when Riku goes to Destiny islands toward the end of the story, he sees YX struggling with whether or not to believe his future self's heart, and come to the decision that satiating his curiosity outweighs the risks.It'd be such a cool thing to see the seeds of Master Xehanort being planted. Of course, that's pretending the writers would give a shit. )

I agree, they have left Xehanort's personality and motives kinda one-dimensional, I hope they develop his character a bit more in KH3...About the good/evil thing (this is going OT...), they're pretty much just concepts that humans created (again, my opinion, someone strongly religious might disagree) for the things that were against their principles/harmful/should not be allowed. But since people have different ideas of what evil is, who has the right to decide what's objectively evil? Sure, there are some things that most people think are bad (killing humas for example), but there's still someone who would disagree, plus if we try to look at things from other than humans' point of view, it's even more complex. But really, society needs rules to work, so there are certain things that we should assume to be wrong. And just to be clear, I think harming other people is wrong. Lol, sorry for going so offtopic.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

Dude, you're defending the villain who's single handedly caused the misery of every protagonist in the series. Maybe hitting your head on the wall every night is giving you brain damage.

 

Even if YX didn't start off inherently evil- and I'm really doubting that at this point- Xehanort's heart that visited him in the past was evil at that point. So if YX isn't evil, why did he immediately trust someone who absolutely is evil? It's just not something stable-minded people do.

It's not like Master Xehanort views himself as evil. He feels completely justified in what he's doing because he's completely amoral. He feels that, no matter what bad things he does, it's all for the greater good of re-shaping the universe. Young Xehanort, who hasn't yet decided on his path, already knew that he wanted to leave Destiny Islands. I'm not entirely sure how someone ascertains the level of 'evil' an individual is, anyway. A dark spirit from the future gave him a way off of the island, even if he was skeptical, this was exactly what he wanted. 

 

I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that Young Xehanort is incapable of doing these things, as well. A lot of YX's personality we should kind of already know from what we see of Master Xehanort, the only difference being his youth and his desire to see other worlds...something MX has had plenty of in his decades of traveling the universe. Honestly, it makes sense to me that he'd agree with his elder version's plan because he's just going to think up the plan in the future, anyway. Like I said, amoral.

 

Basically, I feel that, while Young Xehanort hasn't formulated these world-changing plans himself yet, he still has the capacity to do these things. He's only limited by his tiny island home, his youth and his inexperience; all of which keep him from being able to make his plans and form his viewpoint because of a lack of information about the very things he will eventually grow to obsess over. His years of experience traveling the universe only increased his knowledge, but I don't think it extremely changed his character. He is the same person, merely in different stages of his life.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Kaweebo

[Kinode 3,056]

Basically, once he realized it was the unavoidable fate, he decided to follow it. It's basically believing that since everything is predestined to happen, your actions are futile and worthless. So he doesn't really care about the consequences.

That, and with the new Re:Coded secret ending we know there's an extra reason for him to follow with the plan,

which is obtaining Master Xehanort's Ancient Keyblade, something that will most likely happen in KHIII

. It's a pretty psychologically complex trail, which leads me to wonder how come Xehanort can be so wary of everything that goes on around him while his younger self just decides to let fate decide. Which is probably where the

Book of Prophecies

comes in, or possibly some kind of Wisdom he obtained throughout his mission.

 

Tldr: Predestination convinced him that it was his only route to follow.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Kinode

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Dude, you're defending the villain who's single handedly caused the misery of every protagonist in the series. Maybe hitting your head on the wall every night is giving you brain damage.

 

Even if YX didn't start off inherently evil- and I'm really doubting that at this point- Xehanort's heart that visited him in the past was evil at that point. So if YX isn't evil, why did he immediately trust someone who absolutely is evil? It's just not something stable-minded people do.

What's with the aggressive attitude man? I'm just stating that there's a lot more to a character than which "side" you write him off on. I'm not "defending" him, I'm explaining the depth there is to his character and his motivations. Do you realize how boring it would be to have a main antagonist that did things because he thought "you know what, I think I'll be evil today, because I'm the bad guy, blar blar blar!". He's messed up, a sociopath, and doesn't care about any concepts of right or wrong, but he isn't "evil" in an absolute sense. You can only call him that as a manner of opinion. It doesn't change what he's done, it just shows that he's not a 2-dimensional black and white bad guy. He's not some kook who would tie somebody up to some railroad tracks just for the heck of it (unless that somehow fit into his plan, but logically that wouldn't make sense). There is actually a reason to everything he does, not that he craves destruction, but that he craves control. It's a trait that everybody shares to some extent, he just wants way more of it than anyone else. On top of that, he's under the delusion that the world is out of balance the way it is now, so he believes that by destroying it's present state it can be reshaped by him to be more balanced. He doesn't want a world ruled only by darkness, he just thinks that there is not enough darkness in the world and that in order to bring "true balance", his role must take place on the side of darkness in order to start about the world's "rebirth". He's not "evil". He's crazy. Those are two different things. He wishes to destroy the world with chaos in order to create a new world of order and balance.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

What's with the aggressive attitude man? I'm just stating that there's a lot more to a character than which "side" you write him off on. I'm not "defending" him, I'm explaining the depth there is to his character and his motivations. Do you realize how boring it would be to have a main antagonist that did things because he thought "you know what, I think I'll be evil today, because I'm the bad guy, blar blar blar!". He's messed up, a sociopath, and doesn't care about any concepts of right or wrong, but he isn't "evil" in an absolute sense. You can only call him that as a manner of opinion. It doesn't change what he's done, it just shows that he's not a 2-dimensional black and white bad guy. He's not some kook who would tie somebody up to some railroad tracks just for the heck of it (unless that somehow fit into his plan, but logically that wouldn't make sense). There is actually a reason to everything he does, not that he craves destruction, but that he craves control. It's a trait that everybody shares to some extent, he just wants way more of it than anyone else. On top of that, he's under the delusion that the world is out of balance the way it is now, so he believes that by destroying it's present state it can be reshaped by him to be more balanced. He doesn't want a world ruled only by darkness, he just thinks that there is not enough darkness in the world and that in order to bring "true balance", his role must take place on the side of darkness in order to start about the world's "rebirth". He's not "evil". He's crazy. Those are two different things. He wishes to destroy the world with chaos in order to create a new world of order and balance.

 

Wait, so having little to no concept of right and wrong and wanting to restore balance to the world by harming uncountable lives doesn't make you evil? Huh. I guess Hitler wasn't evil either!

 

Sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive, I just get really frustrated when something I like- like Kingdom Hearts- refuse to make sense. And I think you're misunderstanding me; I don't want Xehanort to be a 2D villain. I want him to be nuanced and layered and have well-explained reasons for his actions. But the games all portray him as just plain evil (maybe Lawful Evil, if you're really being generous with the term 'Lawful'). He never shows remorse or sadness or guilt or anything actual human beings might show if they felt like they had to destroy the world to 'fix' it, and YX never shows doubt or uncertainty or even resignation to destiny. He's just metaphorically twirling his mustache and cackling at all his evil plans. It's so lame.

 

And for the record, when being 'crazy' involves causing terrible pain to others, that's firetrucking evil, man.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

Wait, so having little to no concept of right and wrong and wanting to restore balance to the world by harming uncountable lives doesn't make you evil? Huh. I guess Hitler wasn't evil either!

 

Sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive, I just get really frustrated when something I like- like Kingdom Hearts- refuse to make sense. And I think you're misunderstanding me; I don't want Xehanort to be a 2D villain. I want him to be nuanced and layered and have well-explained reasons for his actions. But the games all portray him as just plain evil (maybe Lawful Evil, if you're really being generous with the term 'Lawful'). He never shows remorse or sadness or guilt or anything actual human beings might show if they felt like they had to destroy the world to 'fix' it, and YX never shows doubt or uncertainty or even resignation to destiny. He's just metaphorically twirling his mustache and cackling at all his evil plans. It's so lame.

 

And for the record, when being 'crazy' involves causing terrible pain to others, that's firetrucking evil, man.

That's your interpretation of evil. I believe all of that stuff is wrong, misguided, and careless, but I don't consider it "evil". For one thing, in my book, you have to actually CARE that you are ruining people's lives to be considered evil, Xehanort clearly doesn't care about what he does to anyone. He's eccentric, insane, and far too obsessed with his goal to obsess over how to ruin people's lives out of nowhere. It has to have a CLEAR connection to his plan, otherwise he wouldn't bother. I will admit there are points in the series where Xehanort does act a little...stereotypical. It really confuses his character for me sometimes. I guess there are times where someone can have "evil moments", but again it all comes down to your ideological beliefs. The farthest I could stretch it to compromise would be to say that Xehanort STARTED OUT with good ideals but both he and his ideals got corrupted OVER TIME due to his growing desire for power, his exposure to intense darkness, and his never ceasing curiosity, where he ended up MORE "EVIL" by this point in the series. It's his experiences and his pre-disposition that led him down his path, but the original ideal was good natured enough that if somebody like Sora or Riku had the same idea, they would probably find a way to make it work without harming anybody, because their personalities allowed for it and their experiences were different than Xehanort's. Xehanort grew up as a normal boy, but his curiosity got the better of him, much like Riku, however the main difference being that Riku chose to change his path while Xehanort chose to continue on his.

 

I'm kind of going on so I'll finish with this. Whether or not Xehanort is evil, the point I'm trying to establish is that he IS a multidimensional character (though at times the writing can be a bit misleading). He could be evil, but that's not all he is, he's so much more than evil. He's crazy, he's logical, he's a researcher, and he believes he knows what the world should be. The "evil" side might be shown more often than not, but it's not how he started out and it's not all he is either. It's just one part of his personality that makes him so interesting as an antagonist. I think we can just agree on the fact that at times the writing in how is portrayed feels a little mixed sometimes, but it doesn't make him any less fun of a character to watch.

[HeyMouseSayCheese 1,133]

 I think we can just agree on the fact that at times the writing in how is portrayed feels a little mixed sometimes, but it doesn't make him any less fun of a character to watch.

 

I definitely don't agree that the writing is mixed; Xehanort is only ever portrayed as a stereotypical destroy-the-world-to-save-it kind of villain with no motives other than Evil. There's nothing ambiguous about that in any of the games. And it certainly makes him less fun to watch.

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

I definitely don't agree that the writing is mixed; Xehanort is only ever portrayed as a stereotypical destroy-the-world-to-save-it kind of villain with no motives other than Evil. There's nothing ambiguous about that in any of the games. And it certainly makes him less fun to watch.

Well I guess we'll never agree then. Goodbye.