Is the Fandom sexist?

[Kittenz 4,281]

Ummm I would've said something to support you if I didn't see those weird threads in the random section

Random. Section. The random section is for jokes. I was joking. Jesus 

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Random. Section. The random section is for jokes. I was joking. Jesus 

Yeah but most of those jokes were sex jokes and making sexual innuendos out of pictures

[Kittenz 4,281]

Hmm...this whole situation kinda makes me sad...

 

To me: Kairi isn't that interesting of a character. But not because she's a Girl, because I don't like her. Personal preference.

To me: Namine is tragic, sweet and interesting. In many ways, she's more of a character than a lot of the cast in general. Not because of her gender.

To me: Xion was a wasted opportunity but, she is easily redeemable and could be an interesting character if she's brought back.

To me: Aqua is one of the greats. She's up there with Roxas and Riku to me, strong-willed, protective, willing to go to many lengths for her friends and she has survived alone in the Realm of Darkness for 10/12 Years now. She just needs her character fleshed out some more and her Voice Actress needs work then we're golden.

 

And to think that people say filth like this about them...it hurts me inside....

 

I think the problem is that your Jokes are kinda ill-timed and have a Mean Tone to them.

 

And Larxene? Really? I don't hate her but...what?

 

I find that once you read the ultimanias, interviews and manga you find Kairi is more interesting than she appears. Also, once you actually analyse the scenes.They go into more detail about her and explain stuff about her in The ultimanias and interviews. From what I've read about her by the creators, she is an interesting character

 

But you are entitled to your opinion and I actually agree with your post alot. Yeah, the girls in KH could use more development(Heck, Sora and few other male cast members could, too) but that hardly warrants the unsavory and downright werid comments you see about them.

 

in CoM that's Namine anyways, in BBS she barely has any lines

KH2 is her biggest role, and she's still barely in that

Whatever you want to think

Yeah but most of those jokes were sex jokes and making sexual innuendos out of pictures

But many of them were about Sora, or saying that because of sokai context. Not kairi herself, really. More innuendo of them being together

Edited October 15, 2014 by KittensOnFire

[Dio Brando 5,810]

I find that once you read the ultimanias, interviews and manga you find Kairi is more interesting than she appears. Also, once you actually analyse the scenes.They go into more detail about her and explain stuff about her in The ultimanias and interviews. From what I've read about her by the creators, she is an interesting character

 

But you are entitled to your opinion and I actually agree with your post alot. Yeah, the girls in KH could use more development(Heck, Sora and few other male cast members could, too) but that hardly warrants the unsavory and downright werid comments you see about them.

 

Whatever you want to think

But many of them were about Sora, or saying that because of sokai context. Not kairi herself, really. More innuendo of them being together

So it's totally fine to make sex jokes about male characters,but the moment someone make such thing about a female character will be a sexist?

[IwasBornAsVentus 396]

Give me a reason to why Namine is selfish to me she's really sweet and smart and she can fight back take care of herself and in no was selfish

 

Xion being dramatic well for one reason she didn't know who she was or where she came from and she was a puppet. How would you feel if you had no idea who you were or where you came from Im pretty sure you would be the same 

[Kittenz 4,281]

So it's totally fine to make sex jokes about male characters,but the moment someone make such thing about a female character will be a sexist?

No..it's not. Don't twist this around. Like I said In the very beginning, as joke, fine, because it's not in a serious light. But the comments I'm talking about here are in serious topics all time.

 

I'm saying people who only see Aqua as a sex object are possibly sexist. There's a difference between making a joke in the random section and actively discriminating the female characters in the serious forums

[Shulk 8,623]

Yep, because gender is the only possible reason someone could dislike a character. Not like people are bothered by personality, nope.

 

Kairi: I'm neutral towards her. She has potential, but Nomura doesn't do much with her at all. I can't say I like her when she's taken a passive role ever since CoM. None of this has to do with gender, but lazy writing.

Namine: Namine is an interesting character. I like her story, and think she's really cool. That has nothing to do with her gender.

Xion: I find Xion to be a poorly written, annoying character who was never really necessary in the first place. This is due to lazy writing, not gender.

Aqua: I like Aqua because her gameplay style is really freaking fun, and her story is interesting. Not gender.

 

Maybe you should actually learn why people have opinions on these characters before instantly attacking the fanbase.

[Caity 3,946]

I actually like Aqua for her play style, I don't particularly care for her breast size and thought she was modern average at best, and I am a girl who can appreciate the beauty in other females, it's not really her fault that so many people can only see breasts when looking at a female.  She's meant to appear older and more mature than Kairi/Namine/Xion because she is older and that involves a more feminine body (Larxene's is masked behind a cloak), instead of having anime-syndrome where she looks like a 14 year old but you go "no no, totally cool, she's actually 21, bang her in your mind it's okay"

 

There's so many people who slander Kairi with "omg she can't do anything we haven't seen enough of her, so I don't want to see her have any character development, because we haven't seen enough of her" So, the solution to her not getting enough screen time, is to not give her screen time, because she hasn't had enough screen time.

 

I feel honestly a lot of people who vocalize such hatred of her are just pissed she's hinted for a GoL position that they feel belongs to their favourite character.  If you read between the lines of what's happening in the games, you can see she's a selfless, brave, thoughtful, somewhat reckless individual who cares deeply about her friends.  I would love a game based on Kairi that shows her training with Yen Sid in his alternate time dimension and we follow her solely on her journey, so that she's more useful in KH3 rather than making her a tutorial dump.  

But in honesty the main problem is the gaming audience itself, a lot of people feel they have the right to judge women, even digital fictional ones, in the same way they judge women in real life, whereas men don't get nearly as enough criticism, whether it's verbal or a snide thought in your head, women, especially those who appear to a large audience (celebrities, game characters) are pretty much drummed into the heads of others to be judged for looks and personality as the norm, and as the norm people are overly critical of anything a female does in a game, where as long as a man is strong and courageous, it's grand.  

A lot of the problems are due to the industry and the way they feel their audience thinks women should be portrayed (Take Lightning Jiggle Tits in Lightning Returns with her new plastic breasts just 'cause the audience clearly won't like a game when her breasts aren't really large).  Especially with Kairi, when KH1 came out a lot of females roles in many games were to simply be the goal for which the male protagonist had to keep progressing forward to save.  People still judging them by this standard and ignoring the state of the industry and common portrayal of women in games at the time are as bad as people who look are Disney movies made in the 50s and go "Oh no, I'm horribly offended this is racist stereotype", when more than likely their great great great grandmother laughed their ass at it 'cause the world was racist back then.  Just 'cause it was a decade or so ago doesn't mean we haven't progressed since then (hence why it's hinted in DDD that Kairi will be more important than just a damsel), but we've still got a long way to go, both for the way the industry represents women, and the way the audience receives them.

 

 

[iEatKittens 26]

I don't think the fandom is sexist, just that some of the female characters in the series arn't portrayed well. 

Kairi can be classified as useless, but that isn't her fault, it's because of the writing. Kairi has basically no screen time whatsoever and the only time she is featured in the games is when she needs rescuing. That's why I'm happy she's getting a bigger part in the next games, so we can see more of her character.Namine is interesting and is probably one of the characters with the most depth in the series. I could write paragraphs on why I adore her character, but I'll save that for a Namine appreciation thread. Xion is fan-fiction material and she reeks of being a Mary Sue. Her character had no purpose in the series and she only served to generate feels for the end of Days.Aqua I find to be boring. Sure, she's a determined, independent woman who can stand up for herself, her friends, and the light... and that's it. I wish that Aqua had more traits and I'd hate to write her off as useless, so I'll just assume that we haven't seen more of Aqua's personality since she was so focused on her friends. It's not the characters fault; it's the writer's. 3/4 of the main female characters were presented horribly/weak. It's not because they're girls, it's just the writing for them sucks.

[littleTSUBAME 483]

I don't think KH fandom's that bad, there are fandoms that are way more sexist than KH fandom.

You could argue that it's a problem that there's so few female characters in the games, but personally I think it's most likely unintentional, so I don't see it as a problem. Yes, Kairi is kind of your typical ''damsel in distress'' in KH1, and she doesn't serve any other purpose than to be ''the main character's love interest'', but as a character she's not terrible. She just lacks character developement (which I hope she'll get in KH3). And Xion is just a filler character basically. I hope they'll make her more likeable if/when she comes back.

I have no issues with Aqua, Namine or Larxene (and let's not forget Olette!), they're all awesome.

Besides, I don't think it's the series itself that makes a fandom sexist, it's the fanbase, and KH has a pretty nice one. At least I haven't seen much, if any, discrimination in this fandom.

Then again, the gaming community as a whole isn't that welcoming to women...

 

Fanservice's not an issue in KH since it's practically nonexistent (except for Aqua's boobs which aren't even that big).

I'd like to say more about fanservice, but it would just go too OT. Should write a rant or something, *laugh*.

[Dracozombie 4,554]

I get the impression I'm the only one in this thread who can tolerate Xion's presence.

 

I fell in love with Aqua for her play style. She's an elegant mage who can wreck everyone's shit. She's a character who I can walk down a dark, monster-infested forest and go, "Yeah, uh-huh, bring it bitches."

 

Story-wise, I dunno, but in a perfect world we'd become attached to or dislike characters for reasons based purely on their merits towards the story. People can like and hate characters just for personal preference. A fandom can turn nameless background characters into characters as popular as the protagonist -- and fans can become legitimately emotionally attached to them. My Aqua example is another case, but it also means I can dislike characters who are just fine, but I still find myself disinterested in or just plain hating. Homura Akemi is the Puella Magi Madoka Magica fandom's darling, for instance, but she's a character I just can't stand.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to chalk up why a character can get so much hate (or attention). All things considered the KH fandom is hardly one of the more sexist ones. Play games that specifically cater to adult males, and then take a look at their fandom. I'm sure KH will be a rose garden in comparison.

[Demyx. 10,064]

I get the impression I'm the only one in this thread who can tolerate Xion's presence.

 

That's because you are a nugget.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Well I think that some of the sexism depends on personal views and opinions depending on how different people view different situations.

 

1- Kairi being a princess of heart is super important and she was the one who restored Sora when he was a shadow and then he went on to save the worlds . It's because she's not some samurai people think she's useless. Being a PoH alone has the whole universe depending on you . Also, she has made her intentions known she wants to join the fight to save her friends and etc . She just needs the oppertunity. I'll wait and see in Kh3 if they can do that for her . But regardless, it's not necessary to be a physical fighter to have importance. 

 

2- Aqua. I'm not a super fan of her bc she can be too motherly and annoying imo BUT she basically was set up to be the heroine in BBS by" fixing" all the others perceived mistakes ( even when making her own btw ) She helped Ven beat Vanitas and Terra with MX although in the end she made the mistake of saving Terranort bc she thought she saved Terra not MX. Point being - she wasn't made to be weak but actually  the one who tried to fix everything ( even if not always successful).

 

3-  Xion-Nomura had mentioned originally thinking of making her more villainous but eventually the staff and him decided to make her the kind, self sacrificing advocate for doing the right thing and returning to Sora. I think his mistake is how she came off very polarizing and people either love her or hate her bc of HOW she handled the situation and they felt she was shoehorned needlessly in. Not bc she was a female though .

 

4. Namine was meek and fragile yet her powers aren't really completely known yet really . She's an anomoly. We know she can firetruck with memories but really there could be more. She did try to do the right thing in the end .She made mistakes partly bc she was lonely and partly bc she was forced . She's human. That weakness isn't bc she's female . We ALL make mistakes regardless of gender.

 

5- Larxene. Ok she was feisty and bitchy.. But the guy members were also dicks so why does that make her soooo much more evil then them ? All the nobodies committed atrocities to further their cause . They were all being assholes to get what they wanted . Except Roxas who was being stupid in his own ways ( don't get me started on that )

 

I will say this - there are some sexual remarks made constantly here but i've seen it from both genders. Remember, perception isn't always reality .

Edited October 15, 2014 by Flaming Lea

[Soul Eater Evans 4,045]

The fandom (when referring to "Aqua's boobs/LOL PLOT DEVICE/boring") either think they're funny, or they're just blatantly expressing their opinion in a watered down way, trying to make it funny at the same time.

 

I tend to just forget that we have a fandom.

[Firaga 5,947]

I judge a character by how they're handled, but by their gender. If they're handled bad, then I'll say they're a bad character. Gender doesn't have anything to do with it. As for the fandom: no, I don't they're sexist. Some of the not-so-good characters of the series just happen to be female.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Firaga Sensei

[Kittenz 4,281]

Yep, because gender is the only possible reason someone could dislike a character. Not like people are bothered by personality, nope.Kairi: I'm neutral towards her. She has potential, but Nomura doesn't do much with her at all. I can't say I like her when she's taken a passive role ever since CoM. None of this has to do with gender, but lazy writing.Namine: Namine is an interesting character. I like her story, and think she's really cool. That has nothing to do with her gender.Xion: I find Xion to be a poorly written, annoying character who was never really necessary in the first place. This is due to lazy writing, not gender.Aqua: I like Aqua because her gameplay style is really freaking fun, and her story is interesting. Not gender.Maybe you should actually learn why people have opinions on these characters before instantly attacking the fanbase.

 

I meant people who have the opinions in the picture on the first post. Gosh

I actually like Aqua for her play style, I don't particularly care for her breast size and thought she was modern average at best, and I am a girl who can appreciate the beauty in other females, it's not really her fault that so many people can only see breasts when looking at a female.  She's meant to appear older and more mature than Kairi/Namine/Xion because she is older and that involves a more feminine body (Larxene's is masked behind a cloak), instead of having anime-syndrome where she looks like a 14 year old but you go "no no, totally cool, she's actually 21, bang her in your mind it's okay"

 

There's so many people who slander Kairi with "omg she can't do anything we haven't seen enough of her, so I don't want to see her have any character development, because we haven't seen enough of her" So, the solution to her not getting enough screen time, is to not give her screen time, because she hasn't had enough screen time.

 

I feel honestly a lot of people who vocalize such hatred of her are just pissed she's hinted for a GoL position that they feel belongs to their favourite character.  If you read between the lines of what's happening in the games, you can see she's a selfless, brave, thoughtful, somewhat reckless individual who cares deeply about her friends.  I would love a game based on Kairi that shows her training with Yen Sid in his alternate time dimension and we follow her solely on her journey, so that she's more useful in KH3 rather than making her a tutorial dump.  

But in honesty the main problem is the gaming audience itself, a lot of people feel they have the right to judge women, even digital fictional ones, in the same way they judge women in real life, whereas men don't get nearly as enough criticism, whether it's verbal or a snide thought in your head, women, especially those who appear to a large audience (celebrities, game characters) are pretty much drummed into the heads of others to be judged for looks and personality as the norm, and as the norm people are overly critical of anything a female does in a game, where as long as a man is strong and courageous, it's grand.  

A lot of the problems are due to the industry and the way they feel their audience thinks women should be portrayed (Take Lightning Jiggle Tits in Lightning Returns with her new plastic breasts just 'cause the audience clearly won't like a game when her breasts aren't really large).  Especially with Kairi, when KH1 came out a lot of females roles in many games were to simply be the goal for which the male protagonist had to keep progressing forward to save.  People still judging them by this standard and ignoring the state of the industry and common portrayal of women in games at the time are as bad as people who look are Disney movies made in the 50s and go "Oh no, I'm horribly offended this is racist stereotype", when more than likely their great great great grandmother laughed their ass at it 'cause the world was racist back then.  Just 'cause it was a decade or so ago doesn't mean we haven't progressed since then (hence why it's hinted in DDD that Kairi will be more important than just a damsel), but we've still got a long way to go, both for the way the industry represents women, and the way the audience receives them.

This exactly is what I was trying to make the topic about but everyone took it the wrong way

I don't think KH fandom's that bad, there are fandoms that are way more sexist than KH fandom.

You could argue that it's a problem that there's so few female characters in the games, but personally I think it's most likely unintentional, so I don't see it as a problem. Yes, Kairi is kind of your typical ''damsel in distress'' in KH1, and she doesn't serve any other purpose than to be ''the main character's love interest'', but as a character she's not terrible. She just lacks character developement (which I hope she'll get in KH3). And Xion is just a filler character basically. I hope they'll make her more likeable if/when she comes back.

I have no issues with Aqua, Namine or Larxene (and let's not forget Olette!), they're all awesome.

Besides, I don't think it's the series itself that makes a fandom sexist, it's the fanbase, and KH has a pretty nice one. At least I haven't seen much, if any, discrimination in this fandom.

Then again, the gaming community as a whole isn't that welcoming to women...

 

Fanservice's not an issue in KH since it's practically nonexistent (except for Aqua's boobs which aren't even that big).

I'd like to say more about fanservice, but it would just go too OT. Should write a rant or something, *laugh*.

Kairi is not just there as a love interest....

I get the impression I'm the only one in this thread who can tolerate Xion's presence.

 

I fell in love with Aqua for her play style. She's an elegant mage who can wreck everyone's shit. She's a character who I can walk down a dark, monster-infested forest and go, "Yeah, uh-huh, bring it bitches."

 

Story-wise, I dunno, but in a perfect world we'd become attached to or dislike characters for reasons based purely on their merits towards the story. People can like and hate characters just for personal preference. A fandom can turn nameless background characters into characters as popular as the protagonist -- and fans can become legitimately emotionally attached to them. My Aqua example is another case, but it also means I can dislike characters who are just fine, but I still find myself disinterested in or just plain hating. Homura Akemi is the Puella Magi Madoka Magica fandom's darling, for instance, but she's a character I just can't stand.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to chalk up why a character can get so much hate (or attention). All things considered the KH fandom is hardly one of the more sexist ones. Play games that specifically cater to adult males, and then take a look at their fandom. I'm sure KH will be a rose garden in comparison.

I have. Trust me. But It's way more annoying when it's in my favorite fandom

Edited October 15, 2014 by KittensOnFire

[Shulk 8,623]

I meant people who have the opinions in the picture on the first post. Gosh

This exactly is what I was trying to make the topic about but everyone took it the wrong way

Kairi is not just there as a love interest....

I have. Trust me. But It's way more annoying when it's in my favorite fandom

I find Xion to be incredibly dramatic, and I think Kairi's had virtually no story importance after KHII (Yes, I know she's training now, but she hasn't done anything YET). I guess that instantly makes me sexist, even though my reasoning has nothing to do with their gender.

 

Again: Try to actually read people's reasoning before jumping to these insane conclusions.

[MysticVriska 70]

I think I should also point out that if it's a male character with these same traits? Like being lonely, has the weight of the world or universe on their shoulders, etc,. guess what? They usually just get pitied and treated like they're a puppy dog. Almost no one seems to complain, but when it;s a female character in that position, OH MAN, SHE'S THE DEVIL WOMAN!! I get that not everyone does that, but that is pretty common throughout many fandoms, so yes, no matter how many fans don't do it, women, either real or fictional, genuinely are judged FAR more harshly, even if for the exact same things that some male chars have done. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by MysticVriska