Organization members' Heartless?

[SmashLegendRiku 97]

So far I can say I'm pretty knowledgeable about the KH lore, but something has been bugging me for some time: both Sora and Xehonort split into a Heartless/Nobody at one point, yet the game only mentions the Organization members as 'Nobodies' and never mentions their 'Heartless'. Jog my memory if I'm wrong, because I might be forgetting something...but shouldn't they have Heartless forms as well if they're Nobodies, or are they an exception to the rule?

[『R』 570]

Some of them do. But I don't think they're heartless, their nobodies.

[atheist123 583]

So far I can say I'm pretty knowledgeable about the KH lore, but something has been bugging me for some time: both Sora and Xehonort split into a Heartless/Nobody at one point, yet the game only mentions the Organization members as 'Nobodies' and never mentions their 'Heartless'. Jog my memory if I'm wrong, because I might be forgetting something...but shouldn't they have Heartless forms as well if they're Nobodies, or are they an exception to the rule?

 

They should all have a Heartless, but most of them will probably be minor ones like Shadows. Only truly evil people have monstrous heartless. Dilan, Braig, Marluxia, and others probably had fairly powerful Heartless but the strength of a Heartless is to do with the evil of people so Isa, Lea, and Ienzo probably have weak Heartless.

 

The Organisation members who have been reborn as humans require their Heartless to be destroyed, so Sora probably casually defeated them on one of his quests.

[TerraRedeemed 255]

What the above poster said. In addition, the only heartless that we've know to retain their memories of their former selves were Ansem and Sora specifically because they chose to become heartless albeit for different reasons.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

I always thought the Organization member's Heartlesses (Heartlessi? idk) would be some of the bosses you fight in the KH games. (Those that don't reappear in places like the Coliseum, for example) Heartless like the Trickmaster, Kurt Zisa, Phantom, Shadow Stalker/Dark Thorn, etc.

 

However, I am in agreement with atheist123 about the fact that most of the Organizations' members weren't actually really bad people. Only a few of them were truly bad people beforehand. (Xaldin, Larxene, Marluxia, Braig) Because of that, their Heartlesses would probably just be more generic Soldiers, Fat Bodies, stuff like that.  With that in mind, I've been trying to see if any of the Heartless bosses match those particular characters I mentioned earlier, but none of them really gel. I'm aware that none of them are SUPPOSED to fit because, officially, they're not really their Heartless, but it's fun to try to connect the dots on stuff like this. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by Kaweebo

[Firaga 5,947]

I always thought that the Red Eyes from BBS Final Episode was the Heartless of Lea or even some kind of prototype version of the Dark Thorn, but I'm probably wrong on both guesses.

[Master Keeper 687]

They should all have a Heartless, but most of them will probably be minor ones like Shadows. Only truly evil people have monstrous heartless. Dilan, Braig, Marluxia, and others probably had fairly powerful Heartless but the strength of a Heartless is to do with the evil of people so Isa, Lea, and Ienzo probably have weak Heartless.

 

The Organisation members who have been reborn as humans require their Heartless to be destroyed, so Sora probably casually defeated them on one of his quests.

 

I always thought the Organization member's Heartlesses (Heartlessi? idk) would be some of the bosses you fight in the KH games. (Those that don't reappear in places like the Coliseum, for example) Heartless like the Trickmaster, Kurt Zisa, Phantom, Shadow Stalker/Dark Thorn, etc.

 

However, I am in agreement with atheist123 about the fact that most of the Organizations' members weren't actually really bad people. Only a few of them were truly bad people beforehand. (Xaldin, Larxene, Marluxia, Braig) Because of that, their Heartlesses would probably just be more generic Soldiers, Fat Bodies, stuff like that.  With that in mind, I've been trying to see if any of the Heartless bosses match those particular characters I mentioned earlier, but none of them really gel. I'm aware that none of them are SUPPOSED to fit because, officially, they're not really their Heartless, but it's fun to try to connect the dots on stuff like this. 

Hey hey slow down you two, why are you guys always pointing at Dilan and the others, they are not that bad as Xemnas and Braig so they should't be exceptions from the organization XIII's other members. If you guys thought of how Xemnas fooled them all by the story of having a heart you would've changed your minds. Dilan was a good guardian and also you were judging Larxene and Marluxia as if you know their somebody. 

 

There was that interview with Nomura and he was asked about the heartless of the organization and then Nomura laughed and said that you might have killed them without knowing through your journey. So like the ones before me, they might have been normal shadows and weren't that important.

[Caity 3,946]

Their heartless were said to be normal heartless just wandering around, they didn't have humanoid heartless like MX, because they were decent human beings when they fell.  Seems the creation of a humanoid heartless is dependent on the darkness in ones heart, hence why Sora was just a shadow.

 

 

If the XIII Organization are Nobodies, does that mean their Heartless are somewhere, too?

They're probably somewhere but not that great of a Heartless.

http://www.gamefaqs....-sleep/57971099

Besides Xehanort, did the other 5 disciples that turned into Heartless disappeared?
Not really disappear but more like they’re somewhere else as normal Heartless. Xehanort was about the only one who was able to keep a human form.

http://www.gamefaqs....-sleep/57971099

 

 

Taken from a post Devereauxr made on a similar topic I made years ago.  

Edited June 27, 2014 by Caity Raindrop

[atheist123 583]

Hey hey slow down you two, why are you guys always pointing at Dilan and the others, they are not that bad as Xemnas and Braig so they should't be exceptions from the organization XIII's other members. If you guys thought of how Xemnas fooled them all by the story of having a heart you would've changed your minds. Dilan was a good guardian and also you were judging Larxene and Marluxia as if you know their somebody. 

 

There was that interview with Nomura and he was asked about the heartless of the organization and then Nomura laughed and said that you might have killed them without knowing through your journey. So like the ones before me, they might have been normal shadows and weren't that important.

 

I was just pointing out Somebodies that could potentially have stronger Heartless. Dilan's entry for Birth By Sleep says "One of the Royal Guard who keep Radiant Garden safe. His savage looks belie a silver tongue and natural talent for manipulating the hearts of others." Manipulating the hearts of others suggests that he is at least a bit more evil than others

 

Braig didn't act very valiantly in BBS so I think he would definitely have a stronger Heartless too. Marluxia was just a wild guess based on his Chain of Memories actions, but his intentions for betraying the Organisation are unknown, so he could have had a noble cause I suppose. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by atheist123

[SmashLegendRiku 97]

They should all have a Heartless, but most of them will probably be minor ones like Shadows. Only truly evil people have monstrous heartless. Dilan, Braig, Marluxia, and others probably had fairly powerful Heartless but the strength of a Heartless is to do with the evil of people so Isa, Lea, and Ienzo probably have weak Heartless.

 

The Organisation members who have been reborn as humans require their Heartless to be destroyed, so Sora probably casually defeated them on one of his quests.

This clears up my question very well, thank you sir (and everyone else). *tips hat*

 

I'm surprised we've never had achievements that tell you when you beat an Organization's Heartless, but maybe they're working on that for KH2.5, or MAYBE they just haven't revealed the Organization Heartless' yet and are saving them for KHIII...the possibilities are endless.

[Kaweebo 3,617]

Hey hey slow down you two, why are you guys always pointing at Dilan and the others, they are not that bad as Xemnas and Braig so they should't be exceptions from the organization XIII's other members.

Xaldin, Larxene and Marluxia aren't evil? Xaldin was the guy who was like, 'Emotions make you weak. Love is weakness.' like he's a frickin' Sith Lord. Marluxia's whole plot in CoM was to overthrow Organization XIII, not because he knew they were bad guys, but because he wanted that power for himself and he'd manipulate as many people as he wanted to get there and Larxene is a sadistic ninja bitch who likes to play with her enemies before killing them.

 

I think it's safe to say that these guys are NOT good guys. I haven't even seen Xigbar/Braig say or do nearly as bad stuff as this. The guy mostly just says asinine things to throw his enemies off-guard and is always one step above everybody else. His plan isn't even one that's evil - purely selfish, and costly to himself, as well. He wants to wield a Keyblade and he'll fork over his entire self of being to do it. That's not evil, that's just stupid.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Kaweebo

[Master Keeper 687]

Xaldin, Larxene and Marluxia aren't evil? Xaldin was the guy who was like, 'Emotions make you weak. Love is weakness.' like he's a frickin' Sith Lord. Marluxia's whole plot in CoM was to overthrow Organization XIII, not because he knew they were bad guys, but because he wanted that power for himself and he'd manipulate as many people as he wanted to get there and Larxene is a sadistic ninja bitch who likes to play with her enemies before killing them.

 

I think it's safe to say that these guys are NOT good guys. I haven't even seen Xigbar/Braig say or do nearly as bad stuff as this. The guy mostly just says asinine things to throw his enemies off-guard and is always one step above everybody else. His plan isn't even one that's evil - purely selfish, and costly to himself, as well. He wants to wield a Keyblade and he'll fork over his entire self of being to do it. That's not evil, that's just stupid.

You shouldn't forget that overall, they were fooled by Xemnas about having a heart and just imagine how things would've changed if these three that you're pointing at knew about the truth. After Dream Drop Distance I wouldn't point at any of the poor organization members except to Xemnas because of his selfish and heartless way to trick the other members.

[Dave 5,715]

You shouldn't forget that overall, they were fooled by Xemnas about having a heart and just imagine how things would've changed if these three that you're pointing at knew about the truth. After Dream Drop Distance I wouldn't point at any of the poor organization members except to Xemnas because of his selfish and heartless way to trick the other members.

 

Even in the event of their being lied to about their ultimate goal, they are still doing pretty rotten things along the way. The end might be different, but they clearly have it in them to use and abuse people of many worlds to get what they want. Xaldin seems all to happy to screw around with the Beast, and Marluxia and Larxene are perfectly prepared to mind-eff Sora and friends. It doesn't really matter if the guy at the top happens to be a slightly bigger jerk if the people underneath him are still acting like jerks.

 

Also, lets not forget that the apprentices are A-Okay with pumping out Heartless and conducting some pretty shady experiments under the castle.

[Master Keeper 687]

Even in the event of their being lied to about their ultimate goal, they are still doing pretty rotten things along the way. The end might be different, but they clearly have it in them to use and abuse people of many worlds to get what they want. Xaldin seems all to happy to screw around with the Beast, and Marluxia and Larxene are perfectly prepared to mind-eff Sora and friends. It doesn't really matter if the guy at the top happens to be a slightly bigger jerk if the people underneath him are still acting like jerks.

 

Also, lets not forget that the apprentices are A-Okay with pumping out Heartless and conducting some pretty shady experiments under the castle.

How wouldn't it change anything? Just imagine how your life would turn out if u were a nobody and knew that you can have a heart after all the lie you've been living at, I am sure that the three of them were acting like that just because they felt that they don't  have a heart and it doesn't matter with them if any bad thing happened to others, but things would surely change if they knew about the heart story

[Dave 5,715]

How wouldn't it change anything? Just imagine how your life would turn out if u were a nobody and knew that you can have a heart after all the lie you've been living at, I am sure that the three of them were acting like that just because they felt that they don't  have a heart and it doesn't matter with them if any bad thing happened to others, but things would surely change if they knew about the heart story

 

That still wouldn't explain about how eager they were to overthrow Ansem the Wise and conduct experiments on the citizens of Radiant Garden while they were still somebodies. 

 

Moreover, even if they DID know about the growing back a heart thing, who's to say that this would compel them to suddenly act like nice people? Considering that they were all too happy to do lousy things while operating under the original assumption of the Organization's goals, which was to get their hearts back to begin with, I don't think the presence of a heart is necessarily conducive to better life choices.

[Ultima Spark 753]

More-or-less what Dave said. I mean, I'm a massive Axel fangirl and have been more interested in the apprentices** post-DDD release, but this apologist nature on behalf of the Organization as a whole is pretty ridiculous.

 

**that said, their going over-the-edge with the heart experiments was probably mostly because of Xehanort's influence than their own nature.

[jj the jet 19]

To be honest, I think that they aren't in the story simply because Nomura wasn't trying to place a focus or emphasis on their heartless. They were there mainly to add to the mystery of the plot and of course some of them be apart of Xehanort's plan.

 

My memory's a little foggy but I didn't think you had to be evil to have a heartless. After all a heartless is just someone who's heart was stolen or lost. Usually a shadow heartless and dusk are created but a special nobody is created when they are strong willed like people from the Organization XIII. So if they were special high ranking nobodies, then certainly they should have heartless that are at least of boss standards.

[Marco Basile 47]

I always thought that the Red Eyes from BBS Final Episode was the Heartless of Lea or even some kind of prototype version of the Dark Thorn, but I'm probably wrong on both guesses.

I guess Axel's heartless is Crimson Prankster from 358/2 days, but I'm not sure about it.

[kekko363 5]

yeah i thought about it too... i guess they turned into hearless and sora eventually slained them in KH1, but i'm not sure about it.

[VeNate13 144]

I think the organization members were probably actually bosses! I mean they obviously had strong enough hearts to retain human form has a nobody. It makes since that if they were strong enough to be human nobodies, than they'd at least be a pretty powerful heartless too. Besides I think Xaldin mentioned or implied something like this when he was trying to turn Beast into a heartless. Plus I'm fairly certain that Lea's heartless is defiantly the crimson prankster you fight in wonderland! I mean think about it both use fire and it just seems like it makes since!