KH3D KH3D Confusion... Again

[Green Sparrow 795]

Sigh... this is really the only game that makes me feel stupid, since I come up with more questions every time I play it. Today's topic will cover The Country of the Musketeers...Q1: Just to be clear, this IS a separate world from Disney Castle. I'm pretty confident it is, but they way that some fans talk about it, they treat it as just an undiscovered portion of Disney Castle. What's the deal?(Questions hence forth are assuming this is indeed a separate world from Disney Castle)Q2: How did Mickey, Donald, Goofy, and Pete get here? We know from past games that their home world is Disney Castle. To add to that... WHY are they there. Mickey begins to explain this, but then is cut off. It doesn't to be anything concerning Pete being a villain. If it has something to do with a "Keyblade Training" thing, then why are Donald and Goofy with Mickey?Q3: Where on the timeline do the events in the dream take place? Obviously way past the Timeless River time period, but what about after? Mickey knows about other worlds and Keyblades, has he met Yen Sid yet? Is he Yen Sid's apprentice by this point? Is this before or after the "events" of the Symphony of Sorcery world.Q4: Since Minnie is the princess of this world, does that mean she left her original home world to be with Mickey? I won't go into the real life ramifications of this decision, but does that mean Mickey is only king via his marriage to Mickey?While I enjoyed this world immensely, its inclusion has really done a number to the timeline. Help please!!!

[Nick Sideris 1,551]

Q1:Yes , I am pretty sure it's a separate world .

Edited May 4, 2014 by Nick Sideris

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

 

Sigh... this is really the only game that makes me feel stupid, since I come up with more questions every time I play it. Today's topic will cover The Country of the Musketeers...Q1: Just to be clear, this IS a separate world from Disney Castle. I'm pretty confident it is, but they way that some fans talk about it, they treat it as just an undiscovered portion of Disney Castle. What's the deal?

It probably a seperate world considering the nature of sleeping worlds. But it could also be a different part of the same world just at a different time.

 

Q2: How did Mickey, Donald, Goofy, and Pete get here? We know from past games that their home world is Disney Castle. To add to that... WHY are they there. Mickey begins to explain this, but then is cut off. It doesn't to be anything concerning Pete being a villain. If it has something to do with a "Keyblade Training" thing, then why are Donald and Goofy with Mickey?

If it takes place during the beggining of his apprenticeship and indeed takes place in another world perhaps Mickey was exploring other worlds while trying to prove his worth and manifest his own keyblade. Donald and Goofy are his best friends and most loyal allies its not surprising they would tag along. As for Minnie and Pete perhaps that is actually their native world and Mickey brought them to Disney Castle later on.

 

Q3: Where on the timeline do the events in the dream take place? Obviously way past the Timeless River time period, but what about after? Mickey knows about other worlds and Keyblades, has he met Yen Sid yet? Is he Yen Sid's apprentice by this point? Is this before or after the "events" of the Symphony of Sorcery world.

I'm going to say that I'm gonna go ahead and say that logically SoS can first. Mickey was clearly in the early stages of his training and not a capable as his CoM counterpart. It makes sense that he would be learning magic first as means in combat if he was unable to summon the keyblade right off the bat. CoM while not the Huber Mickey we know today seemed more advanced and more knowledgeable then his SoS coumterpart

 

Q4: Since Minnie is the princess of this world, does that mean she left her original home world to be with Mickey? I won't go into the real life ramifications of this decision, but does that mean Mickey is only king via his marriage to Mickey?While I enjoyed this world immensely, its inclusion has really done a number to the timeline. Help please!!!

Again it's hard to say remember the sleeping worlds don't necessarily reflect the actual worlds they represent but are rather a reflection of the dreams the world in question is having. Edited May 4, 2014 by devereauxr

[MasterXemnas 2,285]

Fool. I think Mickey was a king that just could have married a princess. They can travel between worlds. 

[Kingdomhe 1,362]

there not separate, just different points in time and it is still disney castle but at different points in time

[Hero of Light XIV 2,381]

No, you're not stupid, asking questions is a sign of inquisitiveness, so you should never feel dumb asking for questions. Anyway, this world always confused me in a lot of ways as well. For one thing, while I kind of enjoy the movie as a guilty pleasure, I always did find it a strange choice to use for a Kingdom Hearts world. I mean, this was a direct to DVD movie. Sure, Mickey cartoons don't exactly premiere on movies screens anymore, but at the very least the ones worth remembering tend to premiere on TV first. The movie itself, cute and well animated as it was, also didn't feel quite as noteworthy either, but again, I still enjoy it, and the comic book motif is actually quite creative (if only they didn't have to cram an opera-inspired song every 5 minutes). So it baffled me that something so relatively unknown could draw an entire world for a Kingdom Hearts game. But then again, it IS a Mickey, Donald, and Goofy cartoon, and those always do well, at least to me anyway.

 

So after having the initial confusion about it's inclusion out of the way, I'm still left with the confusion about it's existence in regards to the plot. So at the very least, we know what the level is based off of. The story where three life-long friends Mickey, Donald, and Goofy dream and aspire to become Musketeers, which at first seems unlickely as Goofy's, well, Goofy, Donald is apparently a chicken-hearted coward, and Mickey is...short...I guess...but then they do end up becoming Musketeers, but only because Musketeer Captain Pete wants a couple of pushovers as guards in order to make kidnapping the Princess, Minnie, easier for his merry band of Beagle Boys. So they train and fight to relatively no avail until they somehow use their quirks to save the day, only to have Pete exploit those quirks to do away with them after kidnapping the princess behind their backs (oh yeah, and Daisy, who also happens to be a lady-in-waiting in this movie, but she's not in the level, so we won't focus on her). It's only because of Pete's go-to henchman/henchwoman/henchcow?....whatever...Clarabelle Cow having a change of heart (no doubt won over by Goofy's...."charm") that Goofy learned what was really going on and managed to convince Donald to help him save Mickey (but not without a SONG first!! ). Once they save Mickey, they boost his morale up again and they all charge into the theatre where Pete has the princess held captive. Basically his master plan goes under the lines of kidnapping the princess, dressing up one of his henchmen to look like the princess, having said "princess" suddenly decide that "she" doesn't feel like being princess anymore and wants to give all reigning power to Pete, making him King of France. Kind of convoluted, but the plot makes it sound genius anyway. Mickey, Donald, and Goofy save the day through a comically creative fight scene and humiliate Pete as well as arrest him, Mickey ends up winning Minnie's heart (which was also a subplot in the movie), Donald ends up with Daisy because...well, Daisy felt like complying with the whole same last name thing, and Goofy ends up with Clarabelle due to the earlier love scene, and everybody is happy! Oh yeah, and the whole time there was this somewhat annoying turtle narrator voiced by Antoine D'Coolette who insisted on having all of these songs in the story.

 

Now, the plot for the Kingdom Hearts is world, like most others, is mostly the same from the source material, with a few changes. Aside from regular changes like the Dream Eaters and Sora and Riku, there's also other additional changes that make things...well, more confusing. For one thing, we learn that the Mickey of this world is actually the same Mickey from Symphony of Sorcery, Timeless River, Mysterious Tower, and of course Disney Castle and Disney Town. So by this point and time, Mickey knows of the Keyblade, other worlds, and is in fact a traveler himself. So by this point, it could be safe to assume that he is still Yen Sid's apprentice, and that this takes place after the events of Symphony of Sorcery, as he is allowed to investigate the happenings of other worlds. Okay, that makes sense. However, exactly what role he is supposed to play in Country of the Musketeers is sort of ambiguously confusing. Supposedly, Mickey is the only character of that world confirmed to not be a natural resident. So unless Nomura says otherwise, the other denizens of this world all seem to belong to this world, including Donald, Goofy, Pluto, and Minnie. Now things make even less sense. Why is there another world with these characters in it? Are these the same characters from Disney Castle, or are they world-duplicates? The concept of world duplicates in Kingdom Hearts has never been expressly acknowledged by the either the game or the creator himself, and it only has a few examples that could be looked at, such as Tron from Space Paranoids being an exact digital copy of the original Tron from the ENCOM network who was later upgraded and worked on by Flynn and transferred to The Grid, later becoming Rinzler. Basically, the Tron of Radiant Garden's mainframe is more of a Tron 2.0, or 1.5 if you want to get technical, with the Tron/Rinzler of The Grid being a more direct transfer/upgrade of the ORIGINAL Tron, or "Tron-Prime", being more of a direct Tron 2.0 . Beyond that, no other example of world duplicates exist. If one were to take an outside source for comparative reference, we could look to the Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles as a possible means of explanation, as both Tsubasa and Kingdom Hearts involve travel to different worlds, laws that govern each world, heart-mythology, rules that each world lives by, and beings that want to conquer all of them. Tsubasa also holds the concept to different versions of the same characters existing in each of these worlds, their personalities and and life experiences beings slightly altered, but their overall souls being the same in each one. Aside from Tsubasa, many other franchises have explored the concept of alternate dimensions and stuff like that, ranging from Star Trek, Doctor Who, and even My Little Pony right now. All depict the phenomenon of either another world, or an alternate dimension with properties and people who mirror their counterparts from the prim world they are based on, with only slight changes. If these commonly similar traits are to be applied to Kingdom Hearts, we could surmise that a similar rule exists in that universe, only rather than entire dimensions, other common worlds themselves can hold the same potential of holding different versions of the same character. We know of the Santa from Nightmare Before Christmas, but what if Sora met the Santa of a different movie, such as the Santa from Prep and Landing? Unlikely case, I know, but the point still stands. Or could the Santa from Nightmare be the same Santa and just travels to different worlds to spread gifts and...you know what, I'm getting off-topic.

 

The point is, now that the hypothetical concept of world-duplicates has been introduced, that raises more questions for the world of the Musketeers and the Kingdom Hearts universe at large. What happened to the Mickey of that world? Was there ever another Mickey to begin with? Does it have to do with why Yen Sid sent Mickey there, if he did? Does it have anything to do with why the world fell to darkness? Are those other characters the same characters as the ones we've met from Disney Castle, or are they world duplicates as well? Did Mickey and the Minnie of this world still have a relationship mirroring that of the movie, and if so, did Mickey take her to Disney Castle? Did he take Donald, Goofy and Pluto to Disney Castle as well? Was there ever a Minnie, Donald, Goofy, or Pluto in Timeless River/Disney Castle to begin with? If those characters were just duplicates and not the same characters from Timeless River/Disney Castle, then did Mickey leave them behind before the world fell, and why? Why do all Mickey and Friends cartoons at large take place within the same world EXCEPT for this one? Do other cartoons take place in their own worlds, and if so, which ones and why? And while we're at it, just how did Mickey go from steamboat deck-hand to King of an entire world anyway!? If the Queen Minnie is the same person as Princess Minnie, then did Mickey marry her and become king after leaving with her to Disney Castle, if that's what even happened at all!? Where did the entire royalty of Disney Castle/Town/Land/World/Place begin in the first place!? Where did any of these characters exist before Disney Castle anyway!!?? All we saw in Timeless River was Mickey, Pete, Clarabelle, Horace, and Clara Cluck, but for some reason we didn't see any classic version of Minnie, who was in the original Steamboat Willie and Plane Crazy by the way, so it wouldn't make sense if she weren't to exist at all, so where was she!? Kingdom Hearts II was before everything got so confusing, so I guess the plot didn't want multiple Donalds and Goofys running around in the same world, so that may have been why we never saw either of them aside from the present Donald and Goofy, but where they still there anyways!? All these time travel, space travel, and duplicate complexes are tearing my brain apart so hard that it's causing me a migraine to even think about it!!!

 

Ulgh....but, I digress. I only wanted to add my questions to this topic to further along the fact that Kingdom Hearts somehow managed to make even less sense purely because of one level. Still a fun level, but a rather confusing one to wrap my head around. I really really hope there is another Ultimania interview with Nomura soon that will explain all of this interplanetary head-canon madness, because I really think this deserves more explanation than fully understanding why Xehanort wants what he wants for the bajillionth time! I didn't come here to answer, only to throw my questions into the ring. Hopefully, somebody out there has enough patience, imagination, and reasoning to come up with a solid theory as to how this whole thing could be explained.

 

Man, I think I need to go lie down... 

there not separate, just different points in time and it is still disney castle but at different points in time

Not unless the Castle fell to darkness. This was a different world, Mickey said so himself. He said he was investigating. That's basically the only thing we are certain about.

[Aile 273]

Let's just say that the Country of Musketeers could be everything: A completely different world or just an older version of Disney castle. Worlds do change over the time, I mean, look at Land of Departure and Castle Oblivion for example. I know Aqua changed the world, but they still are one and the same. Also Radiant Garden and Hollow Bastion. They look so different, yet they are the same. If Mickey was there for his Keyblade training, then maybe Donald and Goofy were there to help him out on his mission? If this world is a different world as Disney castle, then this could be the world Minnie and Pete originaly came from. I personally think Symphony of Sorcery takes place before the Country of Musketeers, both worlds/levels takes place when Mickey was still an apprentice, but the reason why I think Symphony of Sorcery took place first is because it looks like Mickey had just started his training at this time. Again, if this is indeed a different world then yes, Minnie left her home, but that is not really that strange since many people leave their homes when they want to live together with their partner. And its not stupid at all to have so many questions, DDD is just firetrucking confusing

Edited May 4, 2014 by Aile

[Philip Ellwell 5,487]

I think it's simliar to an alternate version of reality, since mickey's action's in this world differ from King Mickey. 

And if Minnie is princess, how'd she become queen of Disney castle, if she's from a seperate world from Timeless River? 

[MarkXIIII 106]

Different world, now presumably empty.

 

Mickey and gang have lived their prior to the Main series at some point or they acted in a movie there (like in the actual movie).

 

But still, they COULD cross the world boundaries because their magic is more powerful than any laws of KH physics.

-> Yen Sid can teleport the boys through time without any problems or restrictions while Xehanort had to give up his fricking body.

 

DDD does not make very much sense but it is more or less consistent with the series overall.

Feel free to check out my "biggest KH mystery unraveled" and "DDD explained" threads; I put in a lot of effort and research.

 

But one thing is still unclear: WHY doesn'T Yen Sid fight and beat Xehanort's ass if he is so powerful??

[Aile 273]

 

 

But one thing is still unclear: WHY doesn'T Yen Sid fight and beat Xehanort's ass if he is so powerful??

 

Because Yen Sid has obviously better things to do, like sitting in his tower and rubbing his beard all the time

[Roxas Illini 49]

Pete might have accidentially step through a corridor of darkness and stumbled into that world sometime after Timeless River when he lost his steamboat.  Mickey, Donald, and Goofy obviously had Yen Sid teleport them to this world as part of their training in the past.  Or, it could just be a dream that never happened rather than a sleeping memory of the world.

[MarkXIIII 106]

Because Yen Sid has obviously better things to do, like sitting in his tower and rubbing his beard all the time

 

BEST ending for KH3 ever:

 

Xehanort is about to win, everyone loses and the Yen Sid comes and summons his ultimate keyblade and defeats Xehanort in one stroke. Everyone is, like, WHAT?! Why didn't you do this earlier?

Yen Sid: "As you might have heard, I was master no more"

Donald: lrknbleniivbakn rbnörmbüqbkq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! using fire magic to turn Yen's beard into ashes.

Kairi: Yes and just 26 more years until KH4! (and yes this is Kairi's only line in the game)

 

I'm being cynical

Edited May 5, 2014 by MarkXIIII