Why DDD destroyed what KHIII could have been

[Demyx. 10,064]

Kingdom Hearts isn't a perfect series. But do plot holes and such things really matter? Nope. Looking to far into things is pointless. It is what it is. But I still enjoy it regardless. Getting all crazy about plot holes and retcons is pretty silly. It's a fun game. With a fun story. That's all that should really matter. 

 

Also this made me laugh really hard. "I feel KH could use alittle more western philosophy and direction". Because western games (for the most part) aren't very good. 

Edited April 14, 2014 by Squirting Demyx

[NO_HEART_XIII 312]

KH has always had plot holes & contradictions & sure DDD may have wrecked everything you know & love, but you just shouldn't think so much about it. Regardless KH3 will be epic & amazing, I'm sure. Xehanort said himself in BBS, that he made sure Terra wasn't the only option he had, so I feel like Nomura has been planning this time travel mumbo jumbo. The logic has been thrown out then window, but then storyline is still pretty amazing. Just go with it.

[Kittenz 4,281]

Sora's voice actor hit purberty IMO that's why it doesn't sound the same :I

 

Get over it

[Kok0roxGuardian 22]

I'm sorry, but I can only agree with you to s certain extent. Dream Drop Distance did feel a little rushed but the ending made up for that flaw. Noruma probably has done a better job than any of us ever could. I've played every game in the series, memorized almost every line, and understand the plot very well and I must say that DDD was my 2nd favorite. The flow-motion is what made the game so outstanding but...the Grid...eh it wasn't really needed and didn't make sense. My heart stopped when Xigbar told Sora that all that work Roxas and everyone did was for nothing. With Kingdom Hearts III most of us probably wanted some big battle to happen and that's just what Normura did. He gave us the Keyblade War. All I'm saying is that there will be games after KH III so the series may still have a long way to go. Let's just give him a chance and see what he does with it.

 

P.S. There were two Mickeys' because it was the World's Dream. It must've been trapped in sleep when Mickey was there and he and everyone else got away before they could be swallowed in Darkness.

 

Anyway, really enjoyed this forum!

[Green Sparrow 795]

Okay, I'm going to try my best to answer to the points you mentioned. Cut me some slack if I forget one, you wrote a lot! lol

1. Mysterious Tower: If you watch the final cutscene in Coded again, Mickey is actually talking to Sora, Kairi, and Riku, but does indeed single Sora out since it involves him more. We also have no reason to believe Mickey's narration was all that was on that letter. Besides, Sora doesn't need to know the whole Coded adventure, just that people are hurting and they need him. Anything else could be discussed in person. Also keep in mind that Mickey wrote that letter before going to Yen Sid. So Mickey's letter and the Mark of Mastery invitation were two separate things. Only Sora & Riku were summoned, so while her support would have been appreciated, there was no reason to bring Kairi with them.

2. Destiny Islands: There are only two ways to time travel: either give up your body (the Xehanort method) or be very powerful in magic (which includes Yen Sid, Merlin, and the three good fairies from Sleeping Beauty to an extent), which is why Xehanort is unable to copy Yen Sid's method. Sora & Riku being looking younger is a separate thing, not because they time traveled. Yen Sid wanted them to learn the proper way to use a Keyblade from scratch, and so reverted them back before the got the ability to use a Keyblade (Sora sounds different because they actor who plays him is older as well). Ursula is there because Young Xehanort brought her there from the future, in which she had already met Sora and wanted revenge. The Destiny Islands had a Sleeping Keyhole because it was in the process of falling to darkness (Sora & Riku were sent to the night that their home world fell).

3. Traverse Town: The Realm of Sleep is outside the flow of time, so while Sora & Riku are there, they are neither in the past, the present, nor the future. They still look younger because Yen Sid did that to them and he has not changed them back. The only way to enter the Realm of Sleep is to be in a world that is falling to darkness, and since that wasn't happening currently, they went back in time to when worlds were falling, and chose their home. Yen Sid, at no point, says only one Sleeping Keyhole per world, just that the Dream Eaters would lead the duo to them. Like you said, the keyhole on Destiny Islands was just the front door to the Realm of Sleep.

4. Cite/Grid: Sora & Riku never actually go to the Sleeping worlds. Sora goes into the dream of a sleeping world, while Riku goes to Sora's dream of the Sleeping world's dream. For example: the Esmerelda that Riku meets is NOT the same Esmerelda that Sora meets. The fact that Riku fights a boss on top of Notre Dame, witnesses it falling, and then Sora fights the "same" boss that falls down, is just a coincidence, since this does not happen in every world.

5. Prankster: There is no time jumping by this point. Each world is just dreaming of events that happened in its world. Again, Pranksters Paradise dreaming of the moments before its fall is just a coincidence. Keep in mind, both Sora & Riku were told to lock 7 Sleeping Keyholes and have no idea what the other is doing. So for all one knows, the other guy is messing around and he is doing all the work. We later learn that Sora is the only one actually sealing the real Sleeping Keyholes, and Riku is locking the dream versions that Sora dreams up.

6. Musketeers/Fantasia: Mickey, Donald, & Goofy are in this world the same way that Jimminy is in Pranksters Paradise. If someone the world is dreaming of was not actually on the world when it fell to darkness, then it will create dream illusions of that person. Obviously M,D, & G were not there, so that is how that works. They went to that world at some point in the past, and left.

7. Neverworld: The World That Never Was is a special world. When it was destroyed, it existed in a state between the Realm of Sleep and the Realm of Light. The two times that Sora looked 15 again was when he was in a DEEP state of sleep, and thus things started to become mixed up and the conversations were more interior than exterior. The main thing this game taught was that, given enough time and interactions with other hearts, a heart can be born in anything, including a Nobody. This fact doesn't ruin past games, but rather explains perplexing moments (why would Roxas cry if he didn't have a heart?).

8. Outcome: Sora & Riku were not sleeping on the floor the whole time. They were both PHYSICALLY sent to the past and both were PHYSICALLY in the Realm of Sleep. Riku PHYSICALLY went into Sora's dream and merely fell asleep upon his return. Sora was sleeping in Traverse Town at the end because that's just what happens (they have woken up in worlds throughout the game). Traverse Town was still in the Realm of Sleep because it is another special world that stays where it is needed, and the TWEWY group was probably still using it. The Dream Eaters were there because I believe they can only exist in the Realm of Sleep.

The plot of KH3D is actually really good and captivating, as well as adding more depth to the series. The problem is that it does an extremely poor job at telling this terrific story. There are many awkward moments and explanations, with many more explanations actually needed to understand what the heck is going on. KH3 can fix all this easily, but whether or not it does, only time will tell.

And what does Lasseter have to do with KH? He has had no creative input for the series, nor will he ever.

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

I personally thought that KH3D's plot was amazing and well done, and it makes an excellent bridge leading into Kingdom Hearts 3, so I'm more than excited to see what Nomura has in store for us in Kingdom Hearts 3!  I will say though, one thing that had me a bit confused was seeing Mickey and friends in 3 different Dream Worlds, without their actual selves being asleep.  Other than that though, the story and gameplay is amazing.  Here's hoping Kingdom Hearts 3 will excel beyond the awesomeness of KH3D!  Long live Kingdom Hearts!

[Nick Sideris 1,551]

None of the existing games is flawless . 

[MarkXIIII 106]

Okay, I'm going to try my best to answer to the points you mentioned. Cut me some slack if I forget one, you wrote a lot! lol1. Mysterious Tower: If you watch the final cutscene in Coded again, Mickey is actually talking to Sora, Kairi, and Riku, but does indeed single Sora out since it involves him more. We also have no reason to believe Mickey's narration was all that was on that letter. Besides, Sora doesn't need to know the whole Coded adventure, just that people are hurting and they need him. Anything else could be discussed in person. Also keep in mind that Mickey wrote that letter before going to Yen Sid. So Mickey's letter and the Mark of Mastery invitation were two separate things. Only Sora & Riku were summoned, so while her support would have been appreciated, there was no reason to bring Kairi with them.2. Destiny Islands: There are only two ways to time travel: either give up your body (the Xehanort method) or be very powerful in magic (which includes Yen Sid, Merlin, and the three good fairies from Sleeping Beauty to an extent), which is why Xehanort is unable to copy Yen Sid's method. Sora & Riku being looking younger is a separate thing, not because they time traveled. Yen Sid wanted them to learn the proper way to use a Keyblade from scratch, and so reverted them back before the got the ability to use a Keyblade (Sora sounds different because they actor who plays him is older as well). Ursula is there because Young Xehanort brought her there from the future, in which she had already met Sora and wanted revenge. The Destiny Islands had a Sleeping Keyhole because it was in the process of falling to darkness (Sora & Riku were sent to the night that their home world fell).3. Traverse Town: The Realm of Sleep is outside the flow of time, so while Sora & Riku are there, they are neither in the past, the present, nor the future. They still look younger because Yen Sid did that to them and he has not changed them back. The only way to enter the Realm of Sleep is to be in a world that is falling to darkness, and since that wasn't happening currently, they went back in time to when worlds were falling, and chose their home. Yen Sid, at no point, says only one Sleeping Keyhole per world, just that the Dream Eaters would lead the duo to them. Like you said, the keyhole on Destiny Islands was just the front door to the Realm of Sleep.4. Cite/Grid: Sora & Riku never actually go to the Sleeping worlds. Sora goes into the dream of a sleeping world, while Riku goes to Sora's dream of the Sleeping world's dream. For example: the Esmerelda that Riku meets is NOT the same Esmerelda that Sora meets. The fact that Riku fights a boss on top of Notre Dame, witnesses it falling, and then Sora fights the "same" boss that falls down, is just a coincidence, since this does not happen in every world.5. Prankster: There is no time jumping by this point. Each world is just dreaming of events that happened in its world. Again, Pranksters Paradise dreaming of the moments before its fall is just a coincidence. Keep in mind, both Sora & Riku were told to lock 7 Sleeping Keyholes and have no idea what the other is doing. So for all one knows, the other guy is messing around and he is doing all the work. We later learn that Sora is the only one actually sealing the real Sleeping Keyholes, and Riku is locking the dream versions that Sora dreams up.6. Musketeers/Fantasia: Mickey, Donald, & Goofy are in this world the same way that Jimminy is in Pranksters Paradise. If someone the world is dreaming of was not actually on the world when it fell to darkness, then it will create dream illusions of that person. Obviously M,D, & G were not there, so that is how that works. They went to that world at some point in the past, and left.7. Neverworld: The World That Never Was is a special world. When it was destroyed, it existed in a state between the Realm of Sleep and the Realm of Light. The two times that Sora looked 15 again was when he was in a DEEP state of sleep, and thus things started to become mixed up and the conversations were more interior than exterior. The main thing this game taught was that, given enough time and interactions with other hearts, a heart can be born in anything, including a Nobody. This fact doesn't ruin past games, but rather explains perplexing moments (why would Roxas cry if he didn't have a heart?).8. Outcome: Sora & Riku were not sleeping on the floor the whole time. They were both PHYSICALLY sent to the past and both were PHYSICALLY in the Realm of Sleep. Riku PHYSICALLY went into Sora's dream and merely fell asleep upon his return. Sora was sleeping in Traverse Town at the end because that's just what happens (they have woken up in worlds throughout the game). Traverse Town was still in the Realm of Sleep because it is another special world that stays where it is needed, and the TWEWY group was probably still using it. The Dream Eaters were there because I believe they can only exist in the Realm of Sleep.The plot of KH3D is actually really good and captivating, as well as adding more depth to the series. The problem is that it does an extremely poor job at telling this terrific story. There are many awkward moments and explanations, with many more explanations actually needed to understand what the heck is going on. KH3 can fix all this easily, but whether or not it does, only time will tell.And what does Lasseter have to do with KH? He has had no creative input for the series, nor will he ever.

Thats the point: sora had ventus' heart and when he returned from being a heartless he regained his own heart. THIS is the reason why roxas didn't get distroyed (Data DiZ in DDD did contradict this) and Therefore Roxas HAD a heart, Ven's. And he did also look like Ven because of his heart. Therefore Roxas HAD a heart, all the others didn't.DDD contradicts ALL the facts we ever knew were true and therefore Roxas should have 3 hearts (His newly grown, Xion's and Ven's which makes Sora have 4!!!!!) just plain stupidity!IF Sora has 4 hearts can he wield 4 Keyblades at once??And how can Roxas wield only 2 if he has 3?So this fact exploits Nomura's inconsistency from Days who can wield how many keyblades and why and makes it even worse.And the worst thing is that in DDD Nomura makes every little breath of any character seem important for the destinies of tons of other characters. Xehanort isn't almighty and destiny isn't so inconsistent

[KH4Real 749]

DDD is my favorite or second after KH1. Let say DDD is the glue that hold things together.

WIthout it KH3 might be confusing and a bit to long. KH3 can have a fresh new start.  

[AuraAce 1,126]

1. It allows Sora and Riku to do the Mark of Mastery meaning they might be able to become masters thus Riku being a master. 2. It revealed the true intentions of the Organisation. 3. It shows that Aqua, Ventus and Terra are still missing as off right now 4. Mickey and Yen Sid have found out a way to get back Ventus and Aqua but not Terra 5. We learned that Lea too can wield a Key Blade 6. We learned that Kairi is going to be taught how to use the Keyblade right 7. Maleficent wants the data to all the worlds 

 

Sure Nomura has made some mistakes and made the plot a bit ehh but if you are good enough with the lore like myself, it will soon come clear what he is portraying and he plot comes easy.

[AuraAce 1,126]

Thinking logically, KHIII WILL be bad if those "lost" characters come back.

Xion won't be the afflicted anymore.

Roxas won't be the sad sincere kid anymore.

Ventus AND Roxas in the same picture doesn't go well.

Too many Xehanorts neither.

 

Too confusing, Completely unacceptable for new fans to the series.

Too many characters whose purposes and characters will be lost and all will be those blank, "saved" characters.

 

 

After all, don't you think 10+ main characters in one game is too much!?

Besides, even though they say it will, KHIII won't be that big (XV's aftermath and money and time shortages will see to that), and too many characters cannot get enough development on screen each.

 

Lastly, they could only handle this by adding DDD-like multi character gaming. And this WON'T Work. KHIII should be like KH1 and 2. A CHRONOLOGICAL (15y.o.) SORA IS THE MAIN CHARACTER. Multis would crush game system, leveling up system and finally the story!

Well For starters, the Storyline is a bit iffy right now due to the whole time travelling thing, but if you are good enough with the game's plot already it becomes clearer. Secondly KHIII won't be bad, are you insane, with all that Next Gen technology and anticipation it will probably be one of the best Action RPGs aside from FFXV of the whole generation. Secondly all the lost characters will come back, that will not make it bad, Roxas will become his own person, Xion will maybe merge with Kairi giving her more strength in the Key Blade. Next Too many Xehanorts?! This must be a joke right, of course there is meant to be Xehanorts, there is 13 of them. Next "Completely unacceptable for fans new to the series" Well for starters i'd like to point out for ANY game you should be starting on the first of the series, not the 8th game, this is an obvious rule to all gamers. Those blank saved characters are an integral part of the story. There isn't ten main, the main characters are Sora, Riku and Kairi, sure Ventus, Aqua and Terra and Roxas were main characters in their games respectively, they are all integral, not main characters. Nomura still has a shit ton of money for FFXV and he will have plenty of money for KHIII, also FFXV will release before KHIII and that game will sell like firetrucking hot cakes, he is pulling all his resources together for KHIII once FFXV is done and it is in very late stages of development, the game is most probably out this year with KHIII following in 2015. Actually, your last point is completely stupid. They have done it successfully with DDD and Birth by Sleep. They will do it successfully with KHIII if they intend to do so.

 

I feel all of your points are Ill presented and you seem to know very little about the series or this game, this is just my opinion but people are entitled to their own.

Edited April 14, 2014 by ScottishSkarmory

[Spideyphantom 7]

The game is still good even though there so many plot points in it. And time travel gives me a head ache

[Aile 273]

I actually thought that DDD was a pretty decent game.

[Shinigami 16]

When do dreams ever make sense? Let that sink in.

[PrinceNoctis 1,011]

I didn't read the whole thing 'cause it's soooooo long! But, Mickey wrote a letter about the hearts connected to Sora. That's it. I don't think Mickey talked about the data-scape or the mark of mastery exam in the letter. And Kairi is not experienced enough to take a Mark Of Mastery exam

[Power Jusho 1,783]

Thats the point: sora had ventus' heart and when he returned from being a heartless he regained his own heart. THIS is the reason why roxas didn't get distroyed (Data DiZ in DDD did contradict this) and Therefore Roxas HAD a heart, Ven's. And he did also look like Ven because of his heart. Therefore Roxas HAD a heart, all the others didn't.DDD contradicts ALL the facts we ever knew were true and therefore Roxas should have 3 hearts (His newly grown, Xion's and Ven's which makes Sora have 4!!!!!) just plain stupidity!IF Sora has 4 hearts can he wield 4 Keyblades at once??And how can Roxas wield only 2 if he has 3?So this fact exploits Nomura's inconsistency from Days who can wield how many keyblades and why and makes it even worse.And the worst thing is that in DDD Nomura makes every little breath of any character seem important for the destinies of tons of other characters. Xehanort isn't almighty and destiny isn't so inconsistent

Xion doesn't have a heart. Xion was a puppet. Also, Ven's heart moved to Roxas, that's why he looks like Ven, so that mean Roxas had Ven's heart, not a new heart completely. So Sora still has 2 hearts within him

[MarkXIIII 106]

Xion doesn't have a heart. Xion was a puppet. Also, Ven's heart moved to Roxas, that's why he looks like Ven, so that mean Roxas had Ven's heart, not a new heart completely. So Sora still has 2 hearts within him

Yes, exactly. But according to DDD, All Nobodys grew their own hearts in addition, so Roxas has 2 hearts, after absorbing Xion 3 and when merging with sora 4.

 

This is what I hate about Nomura:

Roxas Theory changed with each game:

 

KHII: Roxas does not have a heart.

Days: Roxas has a heart.

BbS: Roxas has Ven's heart (and hence looks like him)

 

up to this point everything even makes sense.

 

but then:

 

DDD: Roxas has his own heart.

 

WAT??? This states that KHII, Days AND BbS were Bullshit.

And those games were way better than DDD, so why should DDD have the power to overthrow the storylines of ALL previeous games and state everything we know and all nlaws of nature from the previous games are wrong.

 

C'mon, Nomura, if you change your mind ever so often that's OK. But you can't change what's already been proven.

If you want to overhaul the whole KH series you better start by creating a new KH1 and KH2 that fit your new theories but don't expect me to play those shitty games then.

[Power Jusho 1,783]

Yes, exactly. But according to DDD, All Nobodys grew their own hearts in addition, so Roxas has 2 hearts, after absorbing Xion 3 and when merging with sora 4.

 

This is what I hate about Nomura:

Roxas Theory changed with each game:

 

KHII: Roxas does not have a heart.

Days: Roxas has a heart.

BbS: Roxas has Ven's heart (and hence looks like him)

 

up to this point everything even makes sense.

 

but then:

 

DDD: Roxas has his own heart.

 

WAT??? This states that KHII, Days AND BbS were Bullshit.

And those games were way better than DDD, so why should DDD have the power to overthrow the storylines of ALL previeous games and state everything we know and all nlaws of nature from the previous games are wrong.

 

C'mon, Nomura, if you change your mind ever so often that's OK. But you can't change what's already been proven.

If you want to overhaul the whole KH series you better start by creating a new KH1 and KH2 that fit your new theories but don't expect me to play those shitty games then.

But Xion NEVER had a heart in the first place. She wasn't a real Nobody. She was a puppet who had some of Sora's memories. And Roxas has his own heart because of Ven. Ven's heart is Roxas's heart.

[MarkXIIII 106]

But Xion NEVER had a heart in the first place. She wasn't a real Nobody. She was a puppet who had some of Sora's memories. And Roxas has his own heart because of Ven. Ven's heart is Roxas's heart.

Yes, exactly!

 

But you don'T get what I mean:

 

Truth 1: Roxas has Ven's heart, Xion does not just like all other nobodies. Hence, Sora has 2 now.

 

But Nomura introduced a new law in DDD which says each nobody has a heart because a Nobody's heart replaces the heart it lost by growing a new one. (look on youtube- sora is upset becasue Xemnas lied to his "friends" by telling them they didn't have a heart, but they had hearts)

 

But this NEW truth contradicts the old one which made sense. The new one would be fine ONLY IF the old one had never existed!

 

I am upset cuz Nomura changes his mind and wants nobody's to grow their own hearts but this contradicts his idea he had a few years ago. This guy is going crazy with all his new ideas and he constantly shits on his old ideas.

 

 

YES: Roxas has Ven's heart, Xion and Axel do not. Lea has a heart but not Axel, therefore only Roxas could cry!

 

BUT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJR6tnN6g9A&index=152&list=PLhcSrKyqhfh65KdZulRZNEEaADPxlkVy3

 

Here Xemnas tells Sora that Nobodies grew their own hearts!!

And therefore we can choose

 

1) Nomura theory 1 was a lie and roxas does not have ven's heart but grew his own like axel and xion 

BUT: Roxas is a special nobody that looks different than sora hence this cannot be true (and yet DDD insists on this being true)

 

2) Nomura theory 2 is a lie and Xemnas is lying to sora about nobodies growing their own hearts

BUT: WHY ON EARTH include this crap if it ain'T true???

 

3) BOTH are true which gives us the shitty solution of Sora regained his own heart, Roxas has Ven's heart and therefore looks like him, he grew his own heart and therefore has 2 hearts at once, Xion grew her own and when merging with sora and roxas this gives Sora 4 Hearts!!!

 

 

PREDICTING Nomura wants to bring back Xion and Roxas as their own persons in KHIII this is now possible by releasing the 3 superfluous hearts inside sora to revive Ven, Xion and Roxas.

HOWEVER: Nomura didn't think this through because íf Axel grew his own heart this leaves LEa stuck with 2 hearts and noone to give it to.

 

 

So either Xemnas lied or Nomura got caught up in his own web of ever-changing laws of the heart.

If you ask me he didn't remember what he said about Roxas in the past and he was just eager to split Roxas and Xion and Ven as own persons and this solution came in handy. BUT he didn'T think about 2-hearted LEA!!!

 

IN SUM: DDD IS A CRAPPY GAME THAT IS THE RUSHED GAME IT FEELS LIKE!

The story does not make any sense and its contributions to the whole saga are either lies that want to destract sora or they destroy the whole credibility of the whole series.

Edited April 15, 2014 by MarkXIIII

[MarkXIIII 106]

I just realiyed the whole problem is that the main theory:

 

1 somebody = 1 body, 1 heart, 1 soul does not hold at all.

 

Sora in KH1 has all three + ven''s heart then gets Kairi's heart and therefore has 3 hearts, 1 body 1 soul and Kairi 0 hearts 1 body 1 soul. But she doesn't fade into darkness.

 

Then when sora releases both hearts, he also releases Ven's heart. But with Namine and Roxas created we have Sora=1 heart, 1 soul, 1body; and Kairi 1 of each but Roxas and Namine have bodies and minds each but Roxas also has a heart, namely Ven's.

 

Therefore when they merge again and even if Ven is reawakened we have

 

Sora= 1 Heart, 1 Body, 1 Soul/Mind

Kairi = 1 Heart, 1 Body, 1 Soul/Mind

Ven = 1 Heart, 1 Body, 1 Soul/Mind

 

But What becomes of

Roxas' 1 Mind and 1 Body?

And Namine's 1 Mind and 1 Body??

 

 

And If 1 Heart gives the power to wield 1 Keyblade and Sora gained the ability to wield 2 keyblades in KH2 because he merghed with Roxas and Ven's heart, WHY didn't he have this power in KH1 already, what role do his magical clothes play and WHY can Roxas wield 2 keyblades after merging with Xion?? (Nomura stated something like this in an interview_?)

So IF we assume that Roxas gained Xion's Heart when merging with her and then is able to wield 2 blades, we have to assume he didn'T grow a heart because he had Ven's. But This would leave him with NO heart at all as the only true nobody besides Namine.

But IF he grew his own heart, he had 3 hearts, so why didn't he use 3 keyblades against Riku and why does he give 1 blade to riku after all if he wants to win the fight??

 

My new conclusion:

 

Nomura ruined the series even after KH2; Days makes less sense and BbS is OK. Coded is sperfluous and DDD is the worst nonsense I've ever seen cuz it exploits those flaws of Days and BbS. Without DDD one could overlook or ignore the flaws but DDD makes the mistake of rewriting everything and screwing everything up!

 

And due to DDD Kingdom Hearts (as a series) only makes sense if you Play KH1, CoM, KH2 and BbS in this order and then stop.

Days as standalone non-canon title is OK as is Coded.

But DDD Is bad in every way.

[MarkXIIII 106]

Feel free to correct  me or explain any theories HOW exactly this works:

 

* Ven had his heart scattered

* Vanitas was created

* Sora filled what was missing in Ven's heart

* Vanitas got destroyed

* Ven Merges his heart with Sora's

 

* Sora merges with Kairi's Heart

* Sora releases all his hearts

* Sora becomes a heartless

 

* Namine is created

* Kairi regains her heart and awakes

* Roxas is created

* Roxas takes in Ven's heart

 

* Sora regains his heart

* Sora is restored as somebody

 

* Xion is created

* Xion is destroyed

* Xion fades (where does she go?)

* Roxas merges with Sora

* Namine merges with Kairi

 

* Data Sora is created

* Data Namine is created

* Data Namine fades

* Data Sora is destroyed

 

* Sora's heart falls asleep

* Sora's heart fades into darkness

* Ven's Heart armors Sora's Heart

* Riku awakes Sora's heart

* Did Riku also wake up Ven's heart??

[MarkXIIII 106]

So still I think it's lame if in KHIII

 

Sora, Riku, Kairi, Roxas, Naminé, Xion, Lea, Ven, Aqua, Terra, Mickey, Donald, Goofy

are all plain normal somebodies. Most of them wield keyblades.

 

WHERE DID THE DIVERSITY GO?? EVERYONE is "just" a keyblade wielder.

Ever heard of diversity in weapons (chacrams anyone? true dualwielding?), fate of characters (there can't be happy ends for all!) or powers.

 

Kingdom Hearts would be so much better if Roxas and NAmine existed only within Sora and Kairi, Terra was lost forever, Xion died for good, Master Eraqus was gone for good and Lea stuck to his fiery weapons.

 

Nomura stated that there is no concept of death in this series so I fear that KHIII will just be a conglomerate of tons of similar characters that are just boring cuz they're gonna be all the same (and some even look exactly the same (Ven Roxas, Sora Vanitas Xion Kairi)).

 

What was once the prototype for 1 unique character = Sora is now applicable for ALL good characters in KHIII:

 

young, brave, strong-hearted, affiliated with light rather than darkness, fightin for his/her firends, Keyblade wielder, positive attitude, never gives up. Sound like Sora in KH 1 until KH2 now it's all of them.

Am I the only one who misses sad Aqua, blank minded and angry Roxas, taunting Axel, pure light Kairi and fallen Riku?

Same is true for ALL bad guys in KHIII:

 

ONE WORD: XEHANORT

and wielding some kind of keyblade-like weapons

 

 

Doesn't anyone miss the Organization with their INDIVIDUAL members and attitudes and weapons?

KH 2's ORG: XIII with wimpy-watery Demix, gambling Luxurd and merely brutal Xaldin beats KHIII's TRUE ORG XIII with XEHANORT^13 BY FAR!!!

 

And besides that, we HAVE FOUGHT ANSEM AND XEMNAS`TOO OFTEN!! DIE ALREADY!

I twitch at the fact of fighting Ansem Seeker of Darkness even just ONE MORE TIME!!!

[MarkXIIII 106]

Enough ranting from me but please also check out my other thread in which I included my theories of what I want KHIII to be!

 

It's mostly based on the focus on Sora as THE main character (like he was in KH1 and KH2 - it'S a major numbered title after all) and the relationship to/with (!!) Kairi finally getting resolved.

 

 

 

How big do you see the chances for Sora and Kairi finally getting a Disney Princess+Prince styled Happy End?

Edited April 15, 2014 by MarkXIIII

[Power Jusho 1,783]

Yes, exactly!

 

But you don'T get what I mean:

 

Truth 1: Roxas has Ven's heart, Xion does not just like all other nobodies. Hence, Sora has 2 now.

 

But Nomura introduced a new law in DDD which says each nobody has a heart because a Nobody's heart replaces the heart it lost by growing a new one. (look on youtube- sora is upset becasue Xemnas lied to his "friends" by telling them they didn't have a heart, but they had hearts)

 

But this NEW truth contradicts the old one which made sense. The new one would be fine ONLY IF the old one had never existed!

 

I am upset cuz Nomura changes his mind and wants nobody's to grow their own hearts but this contradicts his idea he had a few years ago. This guy is going crazy with all his new ideas and he constantly shits on his old ideas.

 

 

YES: Roxas has Ven's heart, Xion and Axel do not. Lea has a heart but not Axel, therefore only Roxas could cry!

 

BUT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJR6tnN6g9A&index=152&list=PLhcSrKyqhfh65KdZulRZNEEaADPxlkVy3

 

Here Xemnas tells Sora that Nobodies grew their own hearts!!

And therefore we can choose

 

1) Nomura theory 1 was a lie and roxas does not have ven's heart but grew his own like axel and xion 

BUT: Roxas is a special nobody that looks different than sora hence this cannot be true (and yet DDD insists on this being true)

 

2) Nomura theory 2 is a lie and Xemnas is lying to sora about nobodies growing their own hearts

BUT: WHY ON EARTH include this crap if it ain'T true???

 

3) BOTH are true which gives us the shitty solution of Sora regained his own heart, Roxas has Ven's heart and therefore looks like him, he grew his own heart and therefore has 2 hearts at once, Xion grew her own and when merging with sora and roxas this gives Sora 4 Hearts!!!

 

 

PREDICTING Nomura wants to bring back Xion and Roxas as their own persons in KHIII this is now possible by releasing the 3 superfluous hearts inside sora to revive Ven, Xion and Roxas.

HOWEVER: Nomura didn't think this through because íf Axel grew his own heart this leaves LEa stuck with 2 hearts and noone to give it to.

 

 

So either Xemnas lied or Nomura got caught up in his own web of ever-changing laws of the heart.

If you ask me he didn't remember what he said about Roxas in the past and he was just eager to split Roxas and Xion and Ven as own persons and this solution came in handy. BUT he didn'T think about 2-hearted LEA!!!

 

IN SUM: DDD IS A CRAPPY GAME THAT IS THE RUSHED GAME IT FEELS LIKE!

The story does not make any sense and its contributions to the whole saga are either lies that want to destract sora or they destroy the whole credibility of the whole series.

 

 

I just realiyed the whole problem is that the main theory:

 

1 somebody = 1 body, 1 heart, 1 soul does not hold at all.

 

Sora in KH1 has all three + ven''s heart then gets Kairi's heart and therefore has 3 hearts, 1 body 1 soul and Kairi 0 hearts 1 body 1 soul. But she doesn't fade into darkness.

 

Then when sora releases both hearts, he also releases Ven's heart. But with Namine and Roxas created we have Sora=1 heart, 1 soul, 1body; and Kairi 1 of each but Roxas and Namine have bodies and minds each but Roxas also has a heart, namely Ven's.

 

Therefore when they merge again and even if Ven is reawakened we have

 

Sora= 1 Heart, 1 Body, 1 Soul/Mind

Kairi = 1 Heart, 1 Body, 1 Soul/Mind

Ven = 1 Heart, 1 Body, 1 Soul/Mind

 

But What becomes of

Roxas' 1 Mind and 1 Body?

And Namine's 1 Mind and 1 Body??

 

 

And If 1 Heart gives the power to wield 1 Keyblade and Sora gained the ability to wield 2 keyblades in KH2 because he merghed with Roxas and Ven's heart, WHY didn't he have this power in KH1 already, what role do his magical clothes play and WHY can Roxas wield 2 keyblades after merging with Xion?? (Nomura stated something like this in an interview_?)

So IF we assume that Roxas gained Xion's Heart when merging with her and then is able to wield 2 blades, we have to assume he didn'T grow a heart because he had Ven's. But This would leave him with NO heart at all as the only true nobody besides Namine.

But IF he grew his own heart, he had 3 hearts, so why didn't he use 3 keyblades against Riku and why does he give 1 blade to riku after all if he wants to win the fight??

 

My new conclusion:

 

Nomura ruined the series even after KH2; Days makes less sense and BbS is OK. Coded is sperfluous and DDD is the worst nonsense I've ever seen cuz it exploits those flaws of Days and BbS. Without DDD one could overlook or ignore the flaws but DDD makes the mistake of rewriting everything and screwing everything up!

 

And due to DDD Kingdom Hearts (as a series) only makes sense if you Play KH1, CoM, KH2 and BbS in this order and then stop.

Days as standalone non-canon title is OK as is Coded.

But DDD Is bad in every way.

Their hearts grow over time. They're not made instantly. Also, Nobodies mimic emotions that they once had when they were somebodies. Nobody cared about each other in the Organization except Roxas & Axel. Axel slowly grew his heart but it was most likely wasn't formed completely. Also, 3D isn't rushed. If it was rushed, it would still look like this: 

I think Re:CoM was rushed because it was hard even on beginner mode, some of the voices didn't match, and the combat was bad. 

Also, since when was the soul and mind a part of this?

3D is the game that makes every hyped for KH3 and, like Nomura said, KH3 will answer every question! Just play 3D for the fun of it. Don't worry about all the plot & any complaints you have, just have fun with it. One last thing, you fought Ansem in 3 games (KH1/FM,Re:Com, and 3D) and Xemnas in 2 games (KH2/FM and 3D). That's not alot. And, of course, they're some of the main villains of the series. You probably have to fight them one last time in KH3 to finish them off for good.

[MarkXIIII 106]

Their hearts grow over time. They're not made instantly. Also, Nobodies mimic emotions that they once had when they were somebodies. Nobody cared about each other in the Organization except Roxas & Axel. Axel slowly grew his heart but it was most likely wasn't formed completely. Also, 3D isn't rushed. If it was rushed, it would still look like this: 

I think Re:CoM was rushed because it was hard even on beginner mode, some of the voices didn't match, and the combat was bad. 

Also, since when was the soul and mind a part of this?

3D is the game that makes every hyped for KH3 and, like Nomura said, KH3 will answer every question! Just play 3D for the fun of it. Don't worry about all the plot & any complaints you have, just have fun with it. One last thing, you fought Ansem in 3 games (KH1/FM,Re:Com, and 3D) and Xemnas in 2 games (KH2/FM and 3D). That's not alot. And, of course, they're some of the main villains of the series. You probably have to fight them one last time in KH3 to finish them off for good.

I admit I am exaggerating but I guess more people will feel the same way.

KHIII has been hyped for a while now and long-time fans have been waiting for it since KHII. Everyone dreams what it would be like, Days and BbS (coded was too unimportant) kind of shaped and molded those dream-like illusions what KHIII is gonna be.

 

It took them so long to announce it that it became almost legendary and an illusion by itself so when it finally got announced it is something huge and incredible.

 

The danger of this is that everyone had so high hopes it is hard to fulfill them all. Despite this, DDD stirrd into a VASTLY different diresction which makes me just uncomfortable. Up to BbS the series went really smoothly and linear more ore less. Everything is pointing towards a final KHIII that will blow our minds! But realistically thinking, KHIII can only disappoint and with DDD this is  most likely.

 

I'm looking forward to be positively suroprised, though, and just a single Sora+Kairi officially romance scene is worth it. The graphics look amzing and I can't wait to see some cutscenes with voice acting! But I'm scared it won't be as good as KHII.

 

 

But I still don't agree with "growing hearts" unless they say something like "a heart can be grown but it can never fully become a real heart". If Axel grew a heart and Lea regained HIS he still has more than 1 which is plain stupid.

Why would Nomura state and proof his theory 1 somebody = 1 heart, 1 body, 1 mind ; for more than 10 years

and then with one game say most characters have 1 3/8 hearts; 4 hearts; 2 5/7 hearts. It's just off!