Roxas' Heart

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

...did you actually write that (the second paragraph, not the Nomura part), or did you take that from the KH Info Block? I want to know.

–What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.The above paragraph comes from the Nomura Interviews. Everything else is my explanation of those elements based on my own knowledge of the series.

...did you actually write that (the second paragraph, not the Nomura part), or did you take that from the KH Info Block? I want to know.

–What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.The above paragraph comes from the Nomura Interviews. Everything else is my explanation of those elements based on my own knowledge of the series.

[Ultima Spark 753]

–What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.The above paragraph comes from the Nomura Interviews. Everything else is my explanation of those elements based on my own knowledge of the series.–What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.The above paragraph comes from the Nomura Interviews. Everything else is my explanation of those elements based on my own knowledge of the series.

 

I know about the Nomura interviews. I'm talking about the text below it, because that writing bears startling similarities to one person on the Info Block with a tendency to make everything sound more complicated than it actually is. 

[LeYenrz 276]

you aren't understanding what I'm trying to convey, by Roxas having ventus' heart, I'm not saying that he IS Ven, that he IS based on Ven as an individual, but that he can use Ven's heart to give himself an identity, through using ven's heart to draw emotions from, hell, you could even say he drew from vanitas' negative emotions, if he still exist within Ven. But it's also possible that the replacement the body so desperately wanted was in fact ventus' otherwise, what was the point of it leaving Sora's heart, the original resting ground for ventus' broken heart.And the concept of identity was established in COM, with repliku his identity was that of a replica, his memories were that of his time as a replica,but when they were rewritten, he gained the identity of Riku, same heart, two identities, and as stated memories are never truly gone, just locked away much like ventus' heart within Roxas . And like I said, the possibility of roxas having grown a heart is there, but I just believe that he is using ven's heart in order to show emotion. Roxas can't access ventus' memories, those that are sealed, so he creates new ones relative to himself. similar as to what Riku replica has done. This shows .that just because the hearts original memories are sealed that it cannot make/interpret new ones and give itself a new identity while still having the original sealed within itself., but before you say I am contradicting myself, understand that through my perspective there is only one heart within Roxas up to this point, that heart being ventus. If I believed there were two, this would be illogical.I am not ignoring your arguments,I'm am simply stating reasons I do not believe Roxas has his own personal heart yet, some of the world's greatest treaties/ideas were created because ,within a group, one person was assigned to be the guy who propositioned the opposite plan, if everyone thought the same way, the same answer would be born each time. And if you go back through every post I have made on these forums, not specifically just this topic, I place counter arguments to my own theories just because there are so many roads nomura can choose to take.

 

We already know that you know that ven isn't roxas. And hell, to add to my argument against you on a side note if what you said was even true,then it would be impossible for Roxas to draw emotions from Vanitas. No one seems to understand that Vanitas is gone. DEAD. Ventus already destroyed him. SO WHY DOES EVERYONE STILL THINK THAT THERE'S SOME NEGATIVITY IN VEN'S HEART??? And listen here. I understand that you think that Ven's heart in Roxas sated his body's need for a heart inside of him. But that doesn't even make any sense. Ven's heart is dormant and can't feel. It's broken. If it wasn't, there would be no need for Ven to be sleeping in CO. So if it's dormant, it's practically useless and barely even alive. So Ven's heart inside of Roxas would have done completely NOTHING for him other than change his appearance. And also because it can't do anything, it would make sense for Roxas' body to try and grow its own heart because it's just harboring Ven's heart on the side because it can't do anything. 

 

I can't believe im explaining it to you once more, but i'll say it again. IDENTITY AND THE HEART ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME ACCORDING TO THE LORE. What makes the identity is the heart. Not the memories. The memories are what can help the nobody grow a heart, but just because the nobody has memories doesn't mean he/she HAS a heart. Not to mention that memories can also be the product of a heart. And on the subject of replicas, from the moment they're made onward, they can't have a sense of identity because they don't have a heart! But in Repliku and Xion's case they DID get a sense of identity. This is apparent in the games for reasons that you probablyknow already. Being a replica isn't an identity. HAVING A HEART GIVES YOU ONE. and those two started out by not having one. BUT the moment that Vexen put Riku's memories inside of Repliku, Repliku's interations with Sora and Co. "Rubbed" together and created Repliku's heart. Thus enabling him to feel and be so dedicated throughout the course of CoM. Same thing with Xion, except she obtained her memories by extracting them from Sora. 

 

Roxas having his own memories doesn't automatically give him a heart. It's his interactions with Xion and Axel helped him grow his own heart. It's IMPOSSIBLE to interact with hearts with your memories without GROWING YOUR HEART IN THE PROCESS. SO IF WHAT YOU SAID WAS TRUE, THEN VEN'S HEART WOULD HAVE TO GROW AS WELL. But apparently Ven isn't walking around CO wide awake. So that must mean that Roxas was using his own heart.

 

And yes, YOU ARE ignoring certain crucial parts of everyone else's arguments. We're trying to explain the relations between the heart and identity. But in every single one of your posts you're tossing our lore facts to the side and consistently say that identity and the heart are two completely irrelevant things. 

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

I know about the Nomura interviews. I'm talking about the text below it, because that writing bears startling similarities to one person on the Info Block with a tendency to make everything sound more complicated than it actually is.

I don't know what info block is so its not me those are my own words as I said in the post above. Also it sounds complicated because it is a complicated concept to explain.

[outbackjim21 83]

We already know that you know that ven isn't roxas. And hell, to add to my argument against you on a side note if what you said was even true,then it would be impossible for Roxas to draw emotions from Vanitas. No one seems to understand that Vanitas is gone. DEAD. Ventus already destroyed him. SO WHY DOES EVERYONE STILL THINK THAT THERE'S SOME NEGATIVITY IN VEN'S HEART??? And listen here. I understand that you think that Ven's heart in Roxas sated his body's need for a heart inside of him. But that doesn't even make any sense. Ven's heart is dormant and can't feel. It's broken. If it wasn't, there would be no need for Ven to be sleeping in CO. So if it's dormant, it's practically useless and barely even alive. So Ven's heart inside of Roxas would have done completely NOTHING for him other than change his appearance. And also because it can't do anything, it would make sense for Roxas' body to try and grow its own heart because it's just harboring Ven's heart on the side because it can't do anything. vanitas' "death" in BBS means nothing, death has no existence within this series, actually it's synonymous with sleep. And there is no clear cut answer as to what happened to vanitas, he could have found refuge in Riku's heart, like many theories suggest, but even though ven broke his heart, when it was broken they were merged (semi merged at least) which could allow for him to exist somehow within Ven's heart or alongside it within Sora's. one reason behind this is anti black coat, the personification of the darkness within sora's heart... last time i checked in KH1, sora only had enough darkness to come back as a shadow, so what changed, how did sora gain enough darkness to create one hell of a boss fight? Easy, the return of ventus' heart. with ventus' heart returning the darkness within it came back as well. now understand this, this entity is the Personification of the darkness within sora's heart, it isn't literally vanitas, just the darkness that emanates from him. it can be seen as a way to show that vanitas is still in there somehow. also the fact that vanitas was originally a being with distinct red eyes, much like ABC.you all keep saying that ven's heart is broken to the point that it can't do anything, but that has been proven untrue in 3d and implied in KH 1 and BBS. In 3d we see ventus SAVE sora from the darkness by encasing him in his armor, yes this scene, or at least the boss fight, was originally not meant to be in the game, but it's there, and not only that, at the very end of the game we see that Ven can feel/ and or see sora interacting with the dream eaters causing his body to smile. Now within KH 1, we see sora is being spoken to by an unseen entity, with recent developments its not hard to say that entity is Ven himself, and unless the keyblade is sentient, Ven can also be attributed to showing sora how to lock/unlock keyholes. The series is played by ear so ventus did not exist during the development of the first game, but unlike Hideo Kojima, nomura builds onto preexisting concepts rather than tear them down to be cool and edgy. Now with this information at hand, it's possible that ven's heart has healed, it simply needs to return to its original container. I can't believe im explaining it to you once more, but i'll say it again. IDENTITY AND THE HEART ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME ACCORDING TO THE LORE. What makes the identity is the heart. Not the memories. The memories are what can help the nobody grow a heart, but just because the nobody has memories doesn't mean he/she HAS a heart. Not to mention that memories can also be the product of a heart. And on the subject of replicas, from the moment they're made onward, they can't have a sense of identity because they don't have a heart! But in Repliku and Xion's case they DID get a sense of identity. This is apparent in the games for reasons that you probablyknow already. Being a replica isn't an identity. HAVING A HEART GIVES YOU ONE. and those two started out by not having one. BUT the moment that Vexen put Riku's memories inside of Repliku, Repliku's interations with Sora and Co. "Rubbed" together and created Repliku's heart. Thus enabling him to feel and be so dedicated throughout the course of CoM. Same thing with Xion, except she obtained her memories by extracting them from Sora. is the identity the heart? There are three components needed to be called a complete being; heart, body and soul/mind. The heart has been noted to draw emotion from and to store memories and overall be a guiding force for the individual, but does it give someone an identity?I do not think. I believe that the identity of a being is more connected to the soul than it is the heart, they are interlocked, but the identity simply draws from the mind, which in reality makes complete sense. Nobodies have identities, the body AND SOUL are all that's left so isn't it possible for the soul( as a heart hasn't been born yet) to give one an identity. The soul can remember the memories the heart contained when they were some bodies, so it's plausible that the soul is the flower bed that hearts can be grown from. Another example is lingering will, an entity that is simply a soul with a single purpose etched into its memory. It has an identity, as it refers to itself as "I", yet it doesn't have a body or heart, as Terra's heart is within terranort. All that remains is Terra's mind, though this could be counteracted because it can wield a keyblade and a heart is required to do that, though it does satisfy the requirement of having the memory of being a keyblade wielder etched into its soul . This idea can also give clarity as to how replicas, or anyone/thing can gain a heart through Having an identity, not having an identity because you have a heart. So with this idea the heart and identity are not one and the same just collaborative entities that help to create the whole. In short, identity=soul, not heart= identity. and lets also add some realism to this while i'm at. in real life, the body experiences events, the mind interprets and creates memories based off of those experiences, and our "hearts" decide or "contains" which memories are important to us and have value. Roxas having his own memories doesn't automatically give him a heart. It's his interactions with Xion and Axel helped him grow his own heart. It's IMPOSSIBLE to interact with hearts with your memories without GROWING YOUR HEART IN THE PROCESS. SO IF WHAT YOU SAID WAS TRUE, THEN VEN'S HEART WOULD HAVE TO GROW AS WELL. But apparently Ven isn't walking around CO wide awake. So that must mean that Roxas was using his own heart. Well I had a gurren lagann marathon last week soooo you know what I have to say about the impossible. And with my idea that the soul is from where the heart grows, since ventus isn't physically there, he can't grow one since his soul is in his body and his body is locked away. And yes, YOU ARE ignoring certain crucial parts of everyone else's arguments. We're trying to explain the relations between the heart and identity. But in every single one of your posts you're tossing our lore facts to the side and consistently say that identity and the heart are two completely irrelevant things.

Now how does all of this relate to the PLAUSIBILITY of Roxas not having a personal heart yet, easy, with the birth of Roxas, ventus' heart transferred from the confides of Sora's heart into the body that would later be known as Roxas. Ventus' heart has been shown to be active, he cannot effect the outside world as if he had a body, but he can influence the mind of the body he is in, ala KH1 with the unseen entity, and 3d with sora seeing aqua,terra, and vanitas. Now this proves without a doubt that ventus' heart is capable, much to the contrary of everyone saying that his heart is useless and cannot do anything. Now also, with the birth of Roxas, he was in the process of gaining Sora's identity, his soul imprinted with his memories, but that process was shutdown, but what still remained within Roxas, who in the end had Sora's body,,... Sora's Soul, that which drives the body, and from my theory, creates the identity. To go with this theory, the soul is what CREATES/IMPRINTS (ITSELF) the memory and the heart is what CONTAINS and allows us to have emotions from those memories. when the soul completely transfers into the body, unlike Roxas' case which resulted in him being basically braindead, the identity is reborn without a heart to feel the emotions associated with those memories. Sora's memories were unable to imprint(partially) his soul, allowing Sora's body to gain a new identity unrelated to the memories originally related to that body. Ventus' memories aren't associated with the soul/identity of Sora's body which is why they do not recreate Sora's body as ventus himself, but instead just gives the body ventus' form, yet allows for the body's soul to create a new identity while also being able draw emotion from ventus' heart. With this, Roxas can simulate being a complete being, he has a body, a soul, and a heart that drives the soul to move the body, there is no need for the soul to create a new heart when it already has one that can drive the soul. Now, with the soul and heart being two entities closely related yet fundamentally different, is it not possible for ventus heart to be a substitute for Roxas' ability to feel. Roxas' identity is his and his alone, yet the possibility exist that Roxas' heart is ventus' and until Roxas gains a new body and retrieves his soul/mind/identity from within sora, and ventus regains his heart, that Roxas cannot be truly complete. And if this theory is true, it will give Namine something to do in KH3, because as its stands... She serves no purpose plot wise with her unique powers.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

1-  That was not the personification of the darkness in Sora's heart as you are saying it .

 

— Riku fights a Nightmare wearing a black coat in this world, just who was that?

Nomura: That Nightmare was the personification of the nightmare Sora was having.

 

Xehanort deliberately had to get Sora to fall into darkness so his heart would drown in it and enter the darkest depths of sleep so they could use his body as a vessel .. Up until DDD Sora did NOT have that darkness. This was not Vanitas as confirmed above. Vanitas was destroyed  but it is possible he could've pulled a Ven and hid in someone - and it doesn't even need to be Sora since him and Ven weren't fully merged 

 

"you all keep saying that ven's heart is broken to the point that it can't do anything, but that has been proven untrue in 3d and implied in KH 1 and BBS. In 3d we see ventus SAVE sora from the darkness by encasing him in his armor, yes this scene, or at least the boss fight, was originally not meant to be in the game, but it's there, and not only that, at the very end of the game we see that Ven can feel/ and or see sora interacting with the dream eaters causing his body to smile. Now within KH 1, we see sora is being spoken to by an unseen entity, with recent developments its not hard to say that entity is Ven himself, and unless the keyblade is sentient, Ven can also be attributed to showing sora how to lock/unlock keyholes. The series is played by ear so ventus did not exist during the development of the first game, but unlike Hideo Kojima, nomura builds onto preexisting concepts rather than tear them down to be cool and edgy. Now with this information at hand, it's possible that ven's heart has healed, it simply needs to return to its original container. "

 

In the end of Days , the trauma of Xions death was able to trigger a reaction to Ven's heart which in turn gave Roxas the ability to finally summon Ven's keyblade. Up UNTIL that point he couldn't access ANYTHING of Ven's. From that point on it is said that it finally started to awaken little by little Ven's heart( from THEN ON) thus why in DDD ( which takes place right after KH2 ) we are finally seeing signs of life from Ven's healing heart.  In KH1 - that was MICKEY you are referring to . All of this BS that took you DAYS to think of is still incorrect and proven wrong

• Mysterious Voice

It’s the King calling to Sora here. In the Dive To Heart, the King guides Sora through his dream, explaining the intentions of the adventure. When Sora acquires the Keyblade for the first time after this, and just before passing through the last door of The End of The World, Sora hears a voice reverberate in him that sounds like the King’s. It seems so that those around him can’t hear this voice, indicating the King’s speaking to Sora’s heart directly.

 

 .In BBS Ven's heart sought refuge and when he finally was laid to sleep in CO and his heart rejoined Sora we never see anything more from that point on . So no neither of those examples are correct or valid. During the time his heart was dying but not rejoined with Sora he was showing some , but little, reactions. After rejoined- nothing.

 

Lingering Will is not a Soul. It is Terra's thoughts. Confirmed FACT . The soul cannot leave the body or it dies- both confirmed by Nomura.. However whatever heart is in control of Terra's body gave him his identity which is why Ansem Sod and Xemnas were basically in that sense Xehanort and followed xehanorts plans ( as confirmed in DDD)  . When Xehanort's heart was in control he named and identified himself as Xehanort. Roxas could not do this bc Ven's heart was dormant at that point and nonresponsive. Heart and Identity are directly TIED  as one . Xehanort needed his vessels to throw away their identities ( as straight out said in DDD) in order to take over their bodies as vessels so he had the apprentices lose their hearts . WHY?  Because losing their hearts equals losing their identity . That entire paragraph you wrote on identity is straight up BS you pulled from your ass. The definition of a heart was pointed out to you many times and even what Nomura said about hearts is the same . Nomura = canon . A heart in KH can leave the body and enter another and then claim indentity but a soul cannot do this or it WILL DIE . Nomura's words himself 

 

 

Now how does all of this relate to the PLAUSIBILITY of Roxas not having a personal heart yet, easy, with the birth of Roxas, ventus' heart transferred from the confides of Sora's heart into the body that would later be known as Roxas. Ventus' heart has been shown to be active, he cannot effect the outside world as if he had a body, but he can influence the mind of the body he is in, ala KH1 with the unseen entity, and 3d with sora seeing aqua,terra, and vanitas. Now this proves without a doubt that ventus' heart is capable, much to the contrary of everyone saying that his heart is useless and cannot do anything.

 

Wrong again bc it was Mickey in Kh1 and not Ven and Ven's heart was triggered by Xions death and from that POINT ON he finally started reacting . Which is why Roxas and in turn Sora can then finally access Ven's keyblade . Again confirmed by Nomura .Up until Xions death Roxas did not have any reactions or anything else from Ven's heart giving him almost year to grow his own heart 

Now also, with the birth of Roxas, he was in the process of gaining Sora's identity, his soul imprinted with his memories, but that process was shutdown, but what still remained within Roxas, who in the end had Sora's body,,... Sora's Soul, that which drives the body, and from my theory, creates the identity. To go with this theory, the soul is what CREATES/IMPRINTS (ITSELF) the memory and the heart is what CONTAINS and allows us to have emotions from those memories. when the soul completely transfers into the body, unlike Roxas' case which resulted in him being basically braindead, the identity is reborn without a heart to feel the emotions associated with those memories. Sora's memories were unable to imprint(partially) his soul, allowing Sora's body to gain a new identity unrelated to the memories originally related to that body. Ventus' memories aren't associated with the soul/identity of Sora's body which is why they do not recreate Sora's body as ventus himself, but instead just gives the body ventus' form, yet allows for the body's soul to create a new identity while also being able draw emotion from ventus' heart. With this, Roxas can simulate being a complete being, he has a body, a soul, and a heart that drives the soul to move the body, there is no need for the soul to create a new heart when it already has one that can drive the soul.

Now, with the soul and heart being two entities closely related yet fundamentally different, is it not possible for ventus heart to be a substitute for Roxas' ability to feel. Roxas' identity is his and his alone, yet the possibility exist that Roxas' heart is ventus' and until Roxas gains a new body and retrieves his soul/mind/identity from within sora, and ventus regains his heart, that Roxas cannot be truly complete. And if this theory is true, it will give Namine something to do in KH3, because as its stands... She serves no purpose plot wise with her unique powers.

 

This is all gibberish pretty much . Straight up- a soul stays in the body and so with your theory all Ven's memories, experiences and identity would be stuck in his body with his soul .And you are saying that Roxas used Ven's heart to build memories and experiences of his own on TOP of Ven's stuff he already had which CONTRADICTS EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID. Since Ven's heart was DORMANT DURING THIS TIME IT ALSO DID NOT PROVIDE IDENTITY, EXPERIENCES AND MEMORIES OF VEN WHICH IS WHY HE WAS STILL A ZOMBIE DESPITE HAVING A HEART IN HIM. AT FIRST HE FELT NOTHING TOO. He started to feel over time and that could be contributed to growing his own and to being exposed to a heart ( even dormant) over time. ( meaning that the body detected a heart but it was sleeping and nonfunctioning) That does not mean the emotion he eventually felt was just bc of Ven's heart but was contributed to the growth of a new undamaged heart. When Roxas finally started getting some of Sora's memories little by little he started questioning his IDENTITY. HE NEVER HAD ONE MEMORY OR DREAM OR ANYTHING  FROM VEN . Just Sora. The soul does have an imprint of those memories and experiences which is why normal nobodies remember their past lives ( plus they do maintain a connection to their heartless to a point ) but it's not their IDENTITY. Once again this is why it's the heart that was dominant in Terranort that claimed it's identity as XEHANORT AND CARRIED OUT XEHANORTS PLANS . Geez it's not that hard to get if you would quit ignoring canon material , Nomura's words, and the very definition of a heart in KH lore .

 

 

My answers are in red 

Edited January 10, 2014 by Flaming Lea

[outbackjim21 83]

I didn't say that it was vanitas, just the personification of the darkness within him, and I maybe vanitas is or is not within sora, but the possibility is there.

 

And for the xion's death activating ven's heart, whose to say that Roxas wasn't drawing emotion from ven's heart, but at that moment so much emotion was drawn out at once which kick started the healing process up to 11- plausible

 

My theory states that the mind, which produces thoughts, is the same as a soul, this can be backed up by terranort who refers to all three components of a complete being when fighting LS, "Your body submits, your heart succumbs, so why does your mind resist?" So with that being said, the mind can be interchangeable with the word soul. The scenario of xehanort taking over another persons body can also be attributed to the soul, because it is what drives the body to move, it's possible that the process of taking over another's body involves overwriting the body's soul with the memories of your heart, thus imprinting the identity gathered from his memories into the soul. Which would explain why xehanort targets primarily nobodies when it comes to taking over their bodies because its alot harder to overwrite a soul when a heart is fighting against you. Now as for how terranort was still alive and kicking, don't know, but the idea that the soul and mind are the same is well within reason, as nomura has only stated, to my knowledge, in the ansem reports that the soul drives the body, so it's plausible that it can do other things- plausible

 

Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. This suggest that casting away your identity and losing your heart is NOT the same event. And would also support my idea of the soul being a flower bed from which hearts grow, screw up the flower bed(soul), you screw up the flower(heart). Xemnas even says that from memories, emotions are born, which also supports my idea that the mind is the soul and that as the mind creates memories, those memories "overflow" and sprout a heart.

 

Nomura has not explicitly stated that Ven's heart(itself)reacted to xion's death, just that roxas awakened it [dual wielding] with the will(maybe soul) to not forget xion. And this awakens the potential of both him and sora to wield it, if anything, if KH1 sora had his KH2 outfit he probably could have duel wielded then, as it was always a hidden potential within him.

 

And no, if you read what I had to say about the soul, I said that it creates memory's and in the process imprints those memories into itself while the heart contains those memories created and allows the individual to have feelings associated with those memories. All of Ven's memories are in his heart, but his soul has them imprinted onto itself as it created them. And I did not say that Roxas used ven's heart to build, I said he used it to have feelings about the memories his soul created, maybe or maybe not the memories went into the heart, if it didn't, he sprouted a new heart, but if it did, then Roxas' memories are within ventus' heart, maybe the same way xion's are inside of sora, except they can accessed. And that since ventus heart is not associated with the soul of the body and/or because the heart is damaged the memory can't be accessed, though I'm leaning toward the second because sora was able to view Kairi's memories, unless aqua's magic allowed it to happen somehow.

 

And like i said, because sora's soul lacked imprinted memories it and Ven's memories could not be accessed because the memories within that heart were not associated with the body and/or the heart was damaged to the point it could not access memory yet provide emotion Roxas had to make new memories, and imprint them into the fresh soul, before he could form an identity. And the reason he could only see Sora's dreams was because either the original memories associated with the soul were returning, or Ven's heart simply not able to supply them.

And no it did not take me days to come up with this, it took awhile, but not days. I have things to do, I can't sit on these forums all day responding to every red pop up in 30 mins or less.

Edited January 10, 2014 by outbackjim21

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I didn't say that it was vanitas, just the personification of the darkness within him, and I maybe vanitas is or is not within sora, but the possibility is there.

 

And for the xion's death activating ven's heart, whose to say that Roxas wasn't drawing emotion from ven's heart, but at that moment so much emotion was drawn out at once which kick started the healing process up to 11- plausible

 

My theory states that the mind, which produces thoughts, is the same as a soul, this can be backed up by terranort who refers to all three components of a complete being when fighting LS, "Your body submits, your heart succumbs, so why does your mind resist?" So with that being said, the mind can be interchangeable with the word soul. The scenario of xehanort taking over another persons body can also be attributed to the soul, because it is what drives the body to move, it's possible that the process of taking over another's body involves overwriting the body's soul with the memories of your heart, thus imprinting the identity gathered from his memories into the soul. Which would explain why xehanort targets primarily nobodies when it comes to taking over their bodies because its alot harder to overwrite a soul when a heart is fighting against you. Now as for how terranort was still alive and kicking, don't know, but the idea that the soul and mind are the same is well within reason, as nomura has only stated, to my knowledge, in the ansem reports that the soul drives the body, so it's plausible that it can do other things- plausible

 

Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. This suggest that casting away your identity and losing your heart is NOT the same event. And would also support my idea of the soul being a flower bed from which hearts grow, screw up the flower bed(soul), you screw up the flower(heart). Xemnas even says that from memories, emotions are born, which also supports my idea that the mind is the soul and that as the mind creates memories, those memories "overflow" and sprout a heart.

 

Nomura has not explicitly stated that Ven's heart(itself)reacted to xion's death, just that roxas awakened it [dual wielding] with the will(maybe soul) to not forget xion. And this awakens the potential of both him and sora to wield it, if anything, if KH1 sora had his KH2 outfit he probably could have duel wielded then, as it was always a hidden potential within him.

 

And no, if you read what I had to say about the soul, I said that it creates memory's and in the process imprints those memories into itself while the heart contains those memories created and allows the individual to have feelings associated with those memories. All of Ven's memories are in his heart, but his soul has them imprinted onto itself as it created them. And I did not say that Roxas used ven's heart to build, I said he used it to have feelings about the memories his soul created, maybe or maybe not the memories went into the heart, if it didn't, he sprouted a new heart, but if it did, then Roxas' memories are within ventus' heart, maybe the same way xion's are inside of sora, except they can accessed. And that since ventus heart is not associated with the soul of the body and/or because the heart is damaged the memory can't be accessed, though I'm leaning toward the second because sora was able to view Kairi's memories, unless aqua's magic allowed it to happen somehow.

 

And like i said, because sora's soul lacked imprinted memories it and Ven's memories could not be accessed because the memories within that heart were not associated with the body and/or the heart was damaged to the point it could not access memory yet provide emotion Roxas had to make new memories, and imprint them into the fresh soul, before he could form an identity. And the reason he could only see Sora's dreams was because either the original memories associated with the soul were returning, or Ven's heart simply not able to supply them.

And no it did not take me days to come up with this, it took awhile, but not days. I have things to do, I can't sit on these forums all day responding to every red pop up in 30 mins or less.

 

Yes Nomoura DID talk about how the trauma of Xion's death helped trigger a reaction from Ven's heart - who also did not want to forget Xion . There is a reason he wasn't able to summon it before Xion's death or anytime as Sora in KH1."

 

 - In the end Roxas is able use two keyblades. Is this because he now has Xion�s? 

Nomura: Well, it isn�t that Roxas has physically inherited Xion�s keyblade, but more that Xion has awakened it within Roxas"

 

 

. Awakened - as in ASLEEP OR DORMANT BEFORE BUT AWAKE NOW. He talks about this a few times actually in a few interviews but you love to leave shit out or straight up ignore points that dispute what you are saying. You keep spouting your BS 'theories' on concepts of the heart and identity that are already explained in game and/or Nomura dude . There is no need to make theories on concepts that already have been explained . Writing paragraphs of BS where you literally ignore canon points to convince yourself you are right when you aren't. You sit there and demand interviews so I'll take time to go get them for you to ignore them too so i refuse to dig up every single damn interview for you to just ignore it anyways .

 

You straight up backpedal or contradict your own self in your posts when it suits you while never addressing anyones points that destroy what you are saying . Your made up theories about the soul are just you making shit up that makes no sense to explain things already explained in game period . The fact that you keep talking about crap that is straight up wrong and getting your facts wrong over and over while misusing other facts given in game makes it really hard to take anything you say seriously especially when you ignore points made by me and others in here . Talking in circles with your made up theories that contradict what Nomura says and in game content says will get you nowhere. It did take you days, and you STILL didn't research enough to get your info straight yet again . I'm not interested in your theories that contradict yourself and game canon . I'm interested in canon facts to back up opinions.

 

As for this quote from you  - "Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. This suggest that casting away your identity and losing your heart is NOT the same event"

 

This just proves what I said that the heart and identity are directly linked and are basically the same freaking thing . It suggests EXACTLY what i said but you are too dumb to see it.Nomura was referring to what i mentioned about Xehanort needing the apprentices and other possible vessels to lose their sense of self /identity and the way to do this was to lose their hearts or in Sora's case causing it to.drown in darkness to never wake up . Perfect example of you not getting what Nomura said . Ha!. It was explained in DETAIL IN GAME WHAT NOMURA MEANT BY THAT STATEMENT THAT ALSO SUPPORTS WHAT I SAID . What i said , unlike you, IS NOT A THEORY. This was talked about IN GAME AS WELL..Also when Xehanort took over Terra he used his heart to try to take over Terra's body. When Xehanort is building his vessels with HIS IDENTITY he is using PIECES OF HIS HEART . Your soul theories are pointless when game canon already explains whats going on .Period

 

When you can address all our points and quit talking in circles with your made up theories to things that actually do have in game canon definitions and explanations then I can take you seriously . Until then i'ts pointless. Quit wasting our time and yours then especially if your time is so precious .

Edited January 10, 2014 by Flaming Lea

[outbackjim21 83]

"Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield."

 

Semantics make a difference, your interview is 358 and this one is BBS, so there is no reason nomura wouldn't explicitly state that ven's heart was reawakened at that exact moment.

 

"Back pedaling" is a well known step in the scientific method, do you think Einstein magically came up with the theory of relativity in its complete form without going back and ironing out any fallacies. And I am not contradicting myself in the sense that everything I just said was wrong, but what events, which have not been explicitly stated, could lead to my idea being wrong.

 

And my soul theory is very well plausible, my quote from my previous post does not prove the heart and identity are the same entity, just that they are linked, if you would like the definition of the word link: a relationship between two things or situations. And ingame the events of taking over another person's body has been shown, but not explained In depth ie: xehanort sending his heart into terra, terranort being born, and xehanort assuming identity. My theory shows the process of how these events happens, atleast to a nobody. The heart attacks the soul/mind that has been weakened due to the renouncing of one's sense of self and then imprints the weakened soul with memories contained within the heart which forces the soul to assume a new identity, and if there is a heart already within the body, then it will act as a white blood cell (like Terra's heart attempted). for these reasons, Xemnas tried to make things easier by making sure their hearts wouldn't form so easily.

 

and Xemnas says that by controlling the mind they could could get it to renounce its since of self. Not only is the the word "its" used as a possessive pronoun, meaning that the sense of self belongs to the mind, not the heart, but it yet again gives support to my soul theory as the mind is interchangeable with the word soul.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

"Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield."

 

Semantics make a difference, your interview is 358 and this one is BBS, so there is no reason nomura wouldn't explicitly state that ven's heart was reawakened at that exact moment.

 

This changes nothing about what I said Nomura said about awakening and what it means . In different interviews he adds more info dependent on the question asked .So once again moot . You are getting desperate.It still says the same thing - AWAKENED . LOL

 

"Back pedaling" is a well known step in the scientific method, do you think Einstein magically came up with the theory of relativity in its complete form without going back and ironing out any fallacies. And I am not contradicting myself in the sense that everything I just said was wrong, but what events, which have not been explicitly stated, could lead to my idea being wrong.

 

Back pedaling and self contradiction does not make a good argument and does nothing to prove your point .

 

And my soul theory is very well plausible, my quote from my previous post does not prove the heart and identity are the same entity, just that they are linked, if you would like the definition of the word link: a relationship between two things or situations. And ingame the events of taking over another person's body has been shown, but not explained In depth ie: xehanort sending his heart into terra, terranort being born, and xehanort assuming identity. My theory shows the process of how these events happens, atleast to a nobody. The heart attacks the soul/mind that has been weakened due to the renouncing of one's sense of self and then imprints the weakened soul with memories contained within the heart which forces the soul to assume a new identity, and if there is a heart already within the body, then it will act as a white blood cell (like Terra's heart attempted). for these reasons, Xemnas tried to make things easier by making sure their hearts wouldn't form so easily.

 

and Xemnas says that by controlling the mind they could could get it to renounce its since of self. Not only is the the word "its" used as a possessive pronoun, meaning that the sense of self belongs to the mind, not the heart, but it yet again gives support to my soul theory as the mind is interchangeable with the word soul.

 

Actually nothing you just said backs up your own theory . And YES your quote did prove they were directly linked as in one is the other .  Having a direct relationship between the heart and identity spells out the same thing FFS. The relationship is that one thing is used to mold the other therefore still making it the same thing. No amount of denial or twisting the words will change that. Xemnas tells us they had to throw away their sense of selves so he had the apprentices lose their HEARTS. We were told Roxas couldn't be used as a vessel bc he had developed over time a sense of self ..Xehanort is able to control his vessels by placing pieces of his heart ( not his soul ) that will take over the vessel and allow Xehanort to take possession or control them . It takes over their heart and IDENTITY. Even Xigbar says it well when he says "he is half Xehanort " ..Which is why whoever controls the heart assumes the identity . Why else do you think Xehanort transfered his HEART into Terra to take over his body? Why else do you think Braig asked Terranort "who he was" after the transfer was done and he was found later ? Nothing you say will change the bare facts of whats happened . Not even fairy tale scenarios you make up that contradict what actually happened .

 

 What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

Nomura: They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

 

Your theory isn't plausible bc what a heart is and what it does and how it relates to ones identity is spelled out via in game and via interview. The concept of the heart is a main theme in this series- not the soul and none of what you are saying makes sense according to what is truly said and done in the series.I can say the grass turning neon purple is possible but that does not make it so .

Edited January 11, 2014 by Flaming Lea

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

"Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield."Semantics make a difference, your interview is 358 and this one is BBS, so there is no reason nomura wouldn't explicitly state that ven's heart was reawakened at that exact moment."Back pedaling" is a well known step in the scientific method, do you think Einstein magically came up with the theory of relativity in its complete form without going back and ironing out any fallacies. And I am not contradicting myself in the sense that everything I just said was wrong, but what events, which have not been explicitly stated, could lead to my idea being wrong.And my soul theory is very well plausible, my quote from my previous post does not prove the heart and identity are the same entity, just that they are linked, if you would like the definition of the word link: a relationship between two things or situations. And ingame the events of taking over another person's body has been shown, but not explained In depth ie: xehanort sending his heart into terra, terranort being born, and xehanort assuming identity. My theory shows the process of how these events happens, atleast to a nobody. The heart attacks the soul/mind that has been weakened due to the renouncing of one's sense of self and then imprints the weakened soul with memories contained within the heart which forces the soul to assume a new identity, and if there is a heart already within the body, then it will act as a white blood cell (like Terra's heart attempted). for these reasons, Xemnas tried to make things easier by making sure their hearts wouldn't form so easily.and Xemnas says that by controlling the mind they could could get it to renounce its since of self. Not only is the the word "its" used as a possessive pronoun, meaning that the sense of self belongs to the mind, not the heart, but it yet again gives support to my soul theory as the mind is interchangeable with the word soul.

To explain why your theory is wrong we have go back to basics and try and get you to understand the founding elements of existence in the KH universe. Something that I've already done and don't enjoy retyping lol. What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts? Nomura: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking. It may be interesting how overseas players think of it.Okay right off the bat we have three components that make up ones existence. The body, the soul, and the heart. The Soul as defined by Nomura is the life force of the body that allows the body to live. The body cannot exist without the soul. The heart is formed from the memories and experiences an individual has throughout its existence. Those memories and experiences are what make up the concept of identity which is unique to each individual.

Xemnas in 3D elaborates on the concept in great detail throughout the game. He explained that the memory and heart were deeply linked. Regardless of the minds memories and experiences with no heart linked to that information there is no sense of identity. Which is why without your own heart it is impossible to feel.Xemnas used Tron of the Grid as his primary example. He explain Tron obeyed the worlds rules. He existed as a digital entity he acted as he was programmed. Despite all his previous experiences with his former friends with no heart there was no sense of identity to parse those memories. This made Tron easily susceptible to identity change aka Rinzlers birth.This is the concept Xemnas is referring to at the end of3D by expelling the heart they eliminated the nobodies ability to process the information(in this case memories) and left them susceptible to losing their identities. Conversely this is why the heartless show no emotion for they have no memories to spark emotionwww.youtube.com/watch?v=PKCLFqn032wTo say control the mind is to say alter the information that helps shape the indentiy. Xemnas and Xehanort hoped that without hearts to attach their memories to they would abandon any sense of self they previously had allowing Xehanort to fill them with his own heart and mind. In other words They were trying to replicate the phenomenon that took place naturally in the world that Ansem the Wise based his computer system on(The Grid).On a second but related note is the concept of regrowing a heart and how it relates to Roxas. According to both Xemnas and Anselm the Wise when a heart is lost it will replace it at the first chance it gets. The moment the body interacts with other hearts it is possible for a heart bud to form. Now as I explained before once a heart begins to regrow it will now be able to coincide with the memories the nobodies retained when they lost their hearts. Once a heart exists the nobodies are capable of a true sense of self and have the ability to express that through emotions connected to their memories. However in the case of Roxas an anomaly occurred. Because Sora existed alongside of Roxas and retained his memories leaving his body an empty shell. This is exactly why Roxas was as Young Xehanort put it "A worthy candidate". He literally was a clean slate just waiting to be filled. However as Roxas constantly interacted with other hearts during his own existence (Something he wasn't supposed to do BTW) which gave Sora's body a chance to regrow the heart it lost. However with no prior information to spark a sense of identity the new heart would have used the memories Roxas had during his existence. There is no other way that Roxas would have been able to claim a sense of self if he had no heart of his own to convey the memories and emotions that were unique to himself. In other words it would be impossible to "become too aware of himself" without a heart to give him his own sense of self.Finally to address your point on control the body via the soul. As I've pointed out the soul is merely the life force that tethers the body to existence. Its what allows the body to exist after its become a heartless. However it is not the reason Xehanort can control another body.

Xehanort uses darkness and his mastery at commanding it to manipulate the body into obeying him. In every single successful vessel Xehanort's first requirement was to have the victim allow a large amount of darkness take over. Once the darkness takes over Xehanort' heart has complete control of the body despite his heart not being linked to the body or the soul. Edited January 11, 2014 by devereauxr

[outbackjim21 83]

Actually, when you look at the series as a whole it discusses everything in relation to the heart.

KH1- the relation of the heart to itself

KH:com-the relation of the memories to the heart

KH2- the relation of the body to the heart

KH: BBS- well that ones just a cluster storm of themes so that ones kind of weird, I guess you can say emotions due to the unversed

KH: 358- pretty much the combination of com and kh2

Now with 3d being ,in a sense, the prologue to KH3, it's possible that nomura is setting up the discussion of the relation between the heart and the soul. And once everything has been related, we will truly have an answer to what is a heart.

 

Xehanort forced the apprentices to divide, and if throwing away the heart was the same as renouncing sense of self, why not just implant the heart of xehanort into them right away. Because the mind has to choose to do it, when the mind chooses to renounce its sense of self it makes the body banish the heart. And since the soul is what controls the body that is plausible. This allows xehanort to place his heart ( for some reason you think I'm saying soul) into the body and allows the heart to attack the soul and use the memories contained inside the heart to imprint them onto the fresh soul( the soul that has cast away it's identity) with little to no resistance because the original heart was banished from the body, and since the body is willing to take any heart it can get, it will easily accept xehanorts', so the soul, that has accepted the memories contained within xehanort's heart will assume his identity.

 

And to satisfy your rhetorical, neon purple grass can exist, splicing the bio luminescent DNA from jellyfish, firefies, or certain plankton into the DNA of purple grass can allow the grass to light up with a neon tinge. It's theoretical of course, but doable.

 

Btw, you are using the word "moot" in the wrong way.

Edited January 11, 2014 by outbackjim21

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Actually, when you look at the series as a whole it discusses everything in relation to the heart.

KH1- the relation of the heart to itself

KH:com-the relation of the memories to the heart

KH2- the relation of the body to the heart

KH: BBS- well that ones just a cluster storm of themes so that ones kind of weird, I guess you can say emotions due to the unversed

KH: 358- pretty much the combination of com and kh2

Now with 3d being ,in a sense, the prologue to KH3, it's possible that nomura is setting up the discussion of the relation between the heart and the soul. And once everything has been related, we will truly have an answer to what is a heart.

 

 

 

 THE HEART IS THE MAIN THEME LIKE I ALREADY POINTED OUT . EVERYTHING ELSE ^^^^ is HEARSAY AND HEARSAY AND MORE HEARSAY WITH NO PROOF OR ANY INDICATIONS THIS WILL HAPPEN 

 

Xehanort forced the apprentices to divide, and if throwing away the heart was the same as renouncing sense of self, why not just implant the heart of xehanort into them right away. Because the mind has to choose to do it, when the mind chooses to renounce its sense of self it makes the body banish the heart. And since the soul is what controls the body that is plausible. This allows xehanort to place his heart ( for some reason you think I'm saying soul) into the body and allows the heart to attack the soul and use the memories contained inside the heart to imprint them onto the fresh soul( the soul that has cast away it's identity) with little to no resistance because the original heart was banished from the body, and since the body is willing to take any heart it can get, it will easily accept xehanorts', so the soul, that has accepted the memories contained within xehanort's heart will assume his identity.

 

OMG This isn't a hard concept . The heart pieces take over the HEART- not attack the soul . The HEART is what controls the body and takes over the vessels in this scenario. Xehanorts hearts inside his vessels control the body   Show me one place in game where this is said it's the soul or one interview where this is said : It was explained OVER AND OVER .

What happens to the hearts of those who have had Master Xehanort’s heart planted within them?

Nomura: They’ll gradually be swallowed by it. As for Master Xehanort, he plans to control them completely. The planted parts of the heart are captured rather than disappear.

 

This is exactly why I cannot take you seriously at all 

 

Also to answer your question - he deliberately lied and tricked the apprentices bc he knew they wouldn't willing want to become HIM . Braig is as far as we know the only one who willing did this .Everyone else was tricked and were not even aware of Xehanorts true plans. STATED IN GAME BTW. Xemnas straight up said he LIED to them  Then he had to see from there who would take to his heart and make a worthy vessel.  ONCE AGAIN EXPLAINED IN GAME . Therefore having them cast aside their hearts made it easier for him to use his heart piece to take over so he doesn't have to fight off their hearts like Terra . It was NEVER SAID THE MIND HAD TO WILLINGLY CHOOSE. Terra didn't willing choose and look what happened . So Xehanort solved the problem by having his intended vessels throw away their hearts so he would not have to have the same problems he ran into with Terra. NOWHERE IS IT EVER SAID THE SOUL CONTROLS THE BODY .EVER. IT IS MERELY THE LIFE SOURCE IN THE BODY AS EXPLAINED BY NOMURA. Everything you just said about the soul was BS and nowhere can you back this up 

And to satisfy your rhetorical, neon purple grass can exist, splicing the bio luminescent DNA from jellyfish, firefies, or certain plankton into the DNA of purple grass can allow the grass to light up with a neon tinge. It's theoretical of course, but doable.

 

Show me real neon purple grass and then I'll believe this bullshit

 

 

BTW. Since I am repeating myself over and over and you obviously don't even bother to read whats been said anyways I will not waste more time with someone who will never see what myself and others have said bc you don't want to admit you are wrong . It's very boring and quite tedious to spell out simple concepts over and over  that you still refuse to acknowledge regardless of what is said in game or what is said by Nomura himself . AND NO IM NOT MISUSING MOOT. Because most shit you are saying here and there is meaningless and if discussed anyways or debated the conclusion is meaningless regardless

Edited January 11, 2014 by Flaming Lea

[PillowHead 569]

Actually, when you look at the series as a whole it discusses everything in relation to the heart.KH1- the relation of the heart to itselfKH:com-the relation of the memories to the heartKH2- the relation of the body to the heartKH: BBS- well that ones just a cluster storm of themes so that ones kind of weird, I guess you can say emotions due to the unversedKH: 358- pretty much the combination of com and kh2Now with 3d being ,in a sense, the prologue to KH3, it's possible that nomura is setting up the discussion of the relation between the heart and the soul. And once everything has been related, we will truly have an answer to what is a heart.Xehanort forced the apprentices to divide, and if throwing away the heart was the same as renouncing sense of self, why not just implant the heart of xehanort into them right away. Because the mind has to choose to do it, when the mind chooses to renounce its sense of self it makes the body banish the heart. And since the soul is what controls the body that is plausible. This allows xehanort to place his heart ( for some reason you think I'm saying soul) into the body and allows the heart to attack the soul and use the memories contained inside the heart to imprint them onto the fresh soul( the soul that has cast away it's identity) with little to no resistance because the original heart was banished from the body, and since the body is willing to take any heart it can get, it will easily accept xehanorts', so the soul, that has accepted the memories contained within xehanort's heart will assume his identity.And to satisfy your rhetorical, neon purple grass can exist, splicing the bio luminescent DNA from jellyfish, firefies, or certain plankton into the DNA of purple grass can allow the grass to light up with a neon tinge. It's theoretical of course, but doable.Btw, you are using the word "moot" in the wrong way.

I can not comprehend why you keep trying to defend your theories and ideas when Flaming Lea and others have shown interviews with the creator of the freaking series explaining that you're wrong. JS.

Edited January 12, 2014 by PillowHead

[Aang 649]

What Flaming Lea said. I would love to make a big article on this, but that would require effort.

[LeYenrz 276]

Actually, when you look at the series as a whole it discusses everything in relation to the heart.

KH1- the relation of the heart to itself

KH:com-the relation of the memories to the heart

KH2- the relation of the body to the heart

KH: BBS- well that ones just a cluster storm of themes so that ones kind of weird, I guess you can say emotions due to the unversed

KH: 358- pretty much the combination of com and kh2

Now with 3d being ,in a sense, the prologue to KH3, it's possible that nomura is setting up the discussion of the relation between the heart and the soul. And once everything has been related, we will truly have an answer to what is a heart.

 

Xehanort forced the apprentices to divide, and if throwing away the heart was the same as renouncing sense of self, why not just implant the heart of xehanort into them right away. Because the mind has to choose to do it, when the mind chooses to renounce its sense of self it makes the body banish the heart. And since the soul is what controls the body that is plausible. This allows xehanort to place his heart ( for some reason you think I'm saying soul) into the body and allows the heart to attack the soul and use the memories contained inside the heart to imprint them onto the fresh soul( the soul that has cast away it's identity) with little to no resistance because the original heart was banished from the body, and since the body is willing to take any heart it can get, it will easily accept xehanorts', so the soul, that has accepted the memories contained within xehanort's heart will assume his identity.

 

And to satisfy your rhetorical, neon purple grass can exist, splicing the bio luminescent DNA from jellyfish, firefies, or certain plankton into the DNA of purple grass can allow the grass to light up with a neon tinge. It's theoretical of course, but doable.

 

Btw, you are using the word "moot" in the wrong way.

I'LL LIST THE POINTS OUT TO YOU SLOWLY. IN SIMPLE, BOLD TYPE.

 

APPARENTLY FLAMING LEA'S LONG ARTICLES THAT ARE WAY MORE INTELLIGENT THAN YOU ARE ISN'T MAKING ANY SENSE TO YOU. JUST STOP. ACTING. LIKE. A. SMARTASS. BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ONE.

 

THE HEART IS THE MAIN THEME OF KH. PERIOD. YOU CAN SAY THAT THERE ARE OTHER LITTLE DETAILS THAT ARE INT HE GAME THAT EXPLAIN THE HEART'S RELATIONS TO OTHER GAMES, BUT THE WHOLE SERIES FOCUSES ON THE HEART.

 

XEMNAS LIED TO ORG. XIII SAYING THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY HEARTS. THE ORGANIZATION DIDN'T THINK THEY HAD HEARTS. THIS ALLOWED XEMNAS TO BE ABLE TO PUT PARTS OF HIS HEART IN THEM WITHOUT ANY RESISTANCE. 

 

THERE. SIMPLE AS THAT. NONE OF YOUR 'SOUL THEORY' CRAP APPLIES. YOUR'E JUST MAKING THEORIES THAT ARE MAKING YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF A KINDERGARTEN CONCEPT DISTORTED. YOU'RE MAKING IT HARDER THAN IT HAS TO BE.

Edited January 13, 2014 by khdayskh1314