Lea, Ventus and Isa

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

*headdesk* Calm down, don't flame up (pun intended).

Gosh I love me a good nerdy debate. Much better than politics. Lighten up.

• I suggested that the ultimate purpose is the whole jealousy thingie. Maybe I just have forgotten to include this "Due to these issues, Saix must have began to go more and more towards darkness" do you think?
• I probably should have used "stimulating reason" instead of "main reason", should have gotten the point across.
• I don't care whether you agree with me or not, I'm just a little bit livid that you are misinterpreting what I am saying.
• Announcing yourself as a girl was very random, I don't see what brought you to tell me that.
• Walls of text are rather painful to read
• Be frugal with your caps lock
• You are telling me that "there are things we don't know" and over and I over and I embraced that. Yet your still telling me that.
• "pre·dict  (pr-dkt)
  v. pre·dict·ed, pre·dict·ing, pre·dicts
  v.tr.

  To state, tell about, or make known in advance, especially on the basis of special knowledge."

   

  When I am saying that the idea that the friendship began to plummet mainly because/or was kick-started by one heart is going into the darkness while another is growing the whatever is predictable... It is because we got that information from an available source prior to the release of the next game. I am not calling anything that we don't know predictable because I don't even know what is it in the first place.
• "THEY WERE BOTH TRYING TO SNEAK INTO THE CASTLE PREVIOUSLY.HOW IS THAT IRRELEVANT ?" *sigh* I think I know the problem now. You think that I am discussing what could have happened to contribute to the broken friendship. I am not discussing what actually happens. All I did was suggest that there should be a more ulterior cause and other causes that we don't know of yet (blue text: you keep on talking to me as if I don't understand it, I admitted it from the beginning), not what the cause is. Though I did suggest that jealousy pushed the plunger and started the slow implosion. I was thinking more that the growing infection of Saix's heart was an effect to that.

Okay? Are we clear now?

 

SO on another note, I recall you saying something about Saix being puppet, I find that ironic that he's the puppet now.

 

 I am not upset just annoyed that you keep saying i'm not understanding you 

1- Jealousy definitely plays a part but it's far from the major reasoning . We have two characters who changed in two very different directions.If these changes hadn't occurred, the plot would'nt have ended up the same .

 

2-You called me a dude so I told you i'm a girl .Pretty obvious reason why I said that.

 

3-I don't care if you find a paragraph hard to read. 

 

4- I use my caps as much as you like using different colors for your points. Deal with it .

 

5- You think bc we know this info it's predictable when it's not .Sometimes some info or scenarios need to be presented beforehand in some fashion  or people complain that it came out of nowhere and hate on it . ( ex: biggest complaint on Time Travel on this site ) Setting up the next game happens in EVERY GAME .It doesn't make it predictable and you don't need to tell me what it means .Once again I JUST DON'T AGREE.

 

6- As for your last point - I already told you I agree that jealousy takes a part and that I do think there are underlying personal  issues that go with that and possibly resentment and other emotions that came along the way in this storyline between the two .I think it's multi- faceted . However , this  doesn't negate the fact that Saix becoming norted and Axel growing a new heart ( which changed their behavior and thus eventually their friendship and interactions) didn't ultimately end up exploding this relationship. If Axel had become successfully norted too instead of growing a new heart would this still have happened ? Most likely not. There is a time period from the past that is unexplained where i'm saying there could be those 'ulterior motives'  that come from related circumstances to how this stuff went down . Xehanort needs a vessel to fall to darkness to help nort them successfully. Why was Saix a succesful nort and not Axel when all the org members were intended vessels? They were both traitors trying to rebel ...it's unanswered. Thats what i'm saying. Maybe the answers to this lead to other ulterior reasons- things we just don't know yet . I wouldn't call that predictable when there are so many parts of this that aren't addressed yet compared to what is presented . Providing some details when much isn't disclosed yet is not predictable. The only thing predictable is the obvious dramatic showdown that will happen in KH3. Finally , yes there is some irony to Saix being a puppet .It's kinda funny considering....

Edited December 20, 2013 by Flaming Lea

[143jsr 38]

• noooooooooo...... all I said was I suggested that would be it.
• I call everyone dude, you're no exception
• then don't get upset when I miss a point
• refer to #3
• "Once again I JUST DON'T AGREE." If you read my last post I clearly stated that I don't give 2 shites if you don't, I am not asking for your approval :wink:
• Please reread #9, I'll make it easy for you

 

9. "THEY WERE BOTH TRYING TO SNEAK INTO THE CASTLE PREVIOUSLY.HOW IS THAT IRRELEVANT ?" *sigh* I think I know the problem now. You think that I am discussing what could have happened to contribute to the broken friendship. I am not discussing what actually happens. All I did was suggest that there should be a more ulterior cause and other causes that we don't know of yet (blue text: you keep on talking to me as if I don't understand it, I admitted it from the beginning), not what the cause is. Though I did suggest  (meaning I wasn't looking for your approval) that jealousy pushed the plunger and started the slow implosion. I was thinking more that the growing infection of Saix's heart was an effect to that. 

(as you can see in the 2 sentences above, I wasn't responding to anything you said nor was I expecting a response)

 

"Providing some details when much isn't disclosed yet is not predictable. The only thing predictable is the obvious dramatic showdown that will happen in KH3."

 

nononono. Okay, I will take my time and try to explain this to the best of my abilities.

 

Also it is part jealousy and there is a ton of foreshadowing going on in BBS... However I think a lot of the rift was due to Saix/Isa being norted and slowly becoming more and more Xehanort while Axel started growing a heart through his new relationships he made and changed in a different way but yet in two different directions.

 

 

Let's just focus on this rift you were talking here about and nothing else, mkay? This entire time I was trying to be hypothetical,

what if in KH3 the reason you listed above (and not for any other reason) was the ultimate reason, the one that lit the flame, as you suggested yourself,  what would you say to that when you see it on screen in the near future?

 

"OMG I am so surprised I never knew this would happen!"

or

"I remember saying something about this on a forum!" (not saying that you would actually say this but just hypothetically speaking)

 

I you are able you say the second option, that would be predictable.

 

inb4 you respond. here's a lil something so you won't forget

 

"Let's just focus on this rift you were talking here about and nothing else, mkay?"

Edited December 20, 2013 by AbioFlesh

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

 

• noooooooooo...... all I said was I suggested that would be it.
• I call everyone dude, you're no exception
• then don't get upset when I miss a point
• refer to #3
• "Once again I JUST DON'T AGREE." If you read my last post I clearly stated that I don't give 2 shites if you don't, I am not asking for your approval :wink:
• Please reread #9, I'll make it easy for you

 

"Providing some details when much isn't disclosed yet is not predictable. The only thing predictable is the obvious dramatic showdown that will happen in KH3."

 

nononono. Okay, I will take my time and try to explain this to the best of my abilities.

 

 

Let's just focus on this rift you were talking here about and nothing else, mkay? This entire time I was trying to be hypothetical,

what if in KH3 the reason you listed above (and not for any other reason) was the ultimate reason, the one that lit the flame, as you suggested yourself,  what would you say to that when you see it on screen in the near future?

 

"OMG I am so surprised I never knew this would happen!"

or

"I remember saying something about this on a forum!" (not saying that you would actually say this but just hypothetically speaking)

 

I you are able you say the second option, that would be predictable.

 

inb4 you respond. here's a lil something so you won't forget

 

"Let's just focus on this rift you were talking here about and nothing else, mkay?"

 

 

 

One of the reasons you are being annoying is that you are needlessly rude . I find that blah. Secondly if you don't care if i agree with you - quit trying to convince me it's predictable when i said I disagree with you and stated WHY i disagree. Move on . So you obviously do care . However, going in circles about me disagreeing is getting pretty boring when you haven't stated anything that will make me feel differently.It's called an opinion and not everyone will share yours.

 

To address your question , just bc some people can say they saw this coming doesn't mean EVERYONE does . Just spending enough time on this forum you get to know not everyone has 'predicted '' stuff that was heavily hinted or spelled out bc they view things differently or just don't agree until it actually happens bc they just don't like it. It happens. Unless you want everyone to have a hive mind and think as one.Therefore, even a few people agreeing with something that does actually happen doesn't make it predictable AS A WHOLE . Maybe there are just some perceptive people and even then they might not know everything there was to know concerning that event.

 

Ironically, you are saying this is predictable when there are still aspects that are basically written as Nomura goes ( in his own words btw). Going in circles with you is boring me bc we just will not agree. Deal with it.

[143jsr 38]

One of the reasons you are being annoying is that you are needlessly rude . (Don't expect respect when when you are not being as respectable, my friend, also you taking this too seriously) I find that blah. Secondly if you don't care if i agree with you - quit trying to convince me it's predictable when i said I disagree with you and stated WHY i disagree (for reasons irrelevant to what I am speaking about in the first place). Move on . So you obviously do care . (It's called a debate, you're still taking this too seriously) However, going in circles about me disagreeing is getting pretty boring when you haven't stated anything that will make me feel differently.It's called an opinion and not everyone will share yours. (Tell me something I don't know pls)

 

To address your question , just bc some people can say they saw this coming doesn't mean EVERYONE does . Just spending enough time on this forum you get to know not everyone has 'predicted '' stuff that was heavily hinted or spelled out bc they view things differently or just don't agree until it actually happens bc they just don't like it. It happens.) Unless you want everyone to have a hive mind and think as one.Therefore, even a few people agreeing with something that does actually happen doesn't make it predictable AS A WHOLE . Maybe there are just some perceptive people and even then they might not know everything there was to know concerning that event.(and not everyone needs to know for something to be predictable, a tree outside is leaning badly, since it rains a lot where I live I can predict that one day it will fall, not everyone needs to know that)

 

Ironically, you are saying this is predictable when there are still aspects that are basically written as Nomura goes ( in his own words btw). Going in circles with you is boring me bc we just will not agree. Deal with it. (hehe, I like how said that as if your approval means something to me. inb4 you call me rude, just read my first response. But anyways you obviously didn't read last part of my last response that addresses this)

 

So anyways since you seem pretty much done here may I ask? Are you cool? or are those kinds who'll hold something against me over a debate about a videogame?

 

*holds out hand with cheesy grin*

Edited December 20, 2013 by AbioFlesh

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

So anyways since you seem pretty much done here may I ask? Are you cool? or are those kinds who'll hold something against me over a debate over a videogame?

 

*holds out hand with cheesy grin*

You have been rude from the start so take your own advice.If you gave respect this wouldn't be an issue. As for taking it seriously, don't be a hypocrite or you wouldn't spend time going in circles with me.

 

The reasons were relevant and i explained why . I also read your last response and I explained why I also don't agree. It doesn't matter if someone figures stuff out if it's not obvious to the majority.

 

I think i already told you i couldn't care less if you approve or not let alone if mine means anything to you.

 

Finally, why would I hold it against you in the future? That would infer I cared . Or are you the type you are worried about ?  I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.

[143jsr 38]

"You have been rude from the start so take your own advice.If you gave respect this wouldn't be an issue. As for taking it seriously, don't be a hypocrite or you wouldn't spend time going in circles with me."

 

From the beginning eh?

"There are still events that went down that we just don't know the hows and why's of concerning how they lost their hearts, how Saix was a successful nort despite being a traitor, and etc etc that we just don't know. Being able to discuss one part of the situation in itself doesn't make it predictable. You are just basically whining at this point . If you played Days and read all the reports you can see the friendship break down before your very eyes . But it's just one chapter . There is a long time period before this where Saix and Axel lost their hearts, joined the org , and planned a rebellion due to not trusting Xemnas all while one of them was norted despite wanting to betray Xemnas. They were not apprentices but lost their hearts in the lab and it was after the apprentices did. . There are many unanswered questions going on to call it predictable .Things that people keep wanting to know the answers to. Unless you have the answers to such things( which you don't ) then you can hardly argue that.. Using your logic just discussing any part of the plot in KH makes it predictable which is ridiculous."

 

At this point is where the rudeness started, and whose words are these? not mine.

 

"The reasons were relevant and i explained why . I also read your last response and I explained why I also don't agree. It doesn't matter if someone figures stuff out if it's not obvious to the majority."

 

Because I wasn't talking about the things we don't know which you were focused on. You didn't get it, I was speaking hypothetically, how are we supposed to know the future of what Nomura. It's just a scenario.

 

"I think i already told you i couldn't care less if you approve or not let alone if mine means anything to you." You told me that I did, so now what?

 

"Finally, why would I hold it against you in the future? That would infer I cared . Or are you the type you are worried about ?  I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it." Hehe, You're still here despite sounding like you don't want to be. I love me a debates, are you kidding me? You think I'm taking this seriously? Whether or not if you lose sleep over it is not my concern. Just to let you know I won't be afraid to approach you again whether it is to express agreement or otherwise :smile:

Edited December 20, 2013 by AbioFlesh

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

 

"You have been rude from the start so take your own advice.If you gave respect this wouldn't be an issue. As for taking it seriously, don't be a hypocrite or you wouldn't spend time going in circles with me."

 

From the beginning eh?

"There are still events that went down that we just don't know the hows and why's of concerning how they lost their hearts, how Saix was a successful nort despite being a traitor, and etc etc that we just don't know. Being able to discuss one part of the situation in itself doesn't make it predictable. You are just basically whining at this point . If you played Days and read all the reports you can see the friendship break down before your very eyes . But it's just one chapter . There is a long time period before this where Saix and Axel lost their hearts, joined the org , and planned a rebellion due to not trusting Xemnas all while one of them was norted despite wanting to betray Xemnas. They were not apprentices but lost their hearts in the lab and it was after the apprentices did. . There are many unanswered questions going on to call it predictable .Things that people keep wanting to know the answers to. Unless you have the answers to such things( which you don't ) then you can hardly argue that.. Using your logic just discussing any part of the plot in KH makes it predictable which is ridiculous."

 

At this point is where the rudeness started, and whose words are these? not mine.

Pointing out why I think you are wrong and why is considered rude to you ? There is a word for that - it's called butthurt .You were also rude before that and were the one who originally stated you were in 'whiny teenage mode' in which i referenced that in my remark .

 

"The reasons were relevant and i explained why . I also read your last response and I explained why I also don't agree. It doesn't matter if someone figures stuff out if it's not obvious to the majority."

 

Because I wasn't talking about the things we don't know which you were focused on. You didn't get it, I was speaking hypothetically, how are we supposed to know the future of what Nomura. It's just a scenario. Because I used specific examples doesn't make it less relevant just bc you can't answer it .

 

"I think i already told you i couldn't care less if you approve or not let alone if mine means anything to you." You told me that I did, so now what?

Because you kept trying to convince me  to change my opinion when it's not gonna change. Not everyone will agree with you . Yet you keep trying.

 

"Finally, why would I hold it against you in the future? That would infer I cared . Or are you the type you are worried about ?  I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it." Hehe, You're still here despite sounding like you don't want to be. I love me a debates, are you kidding me? You think I'm taking this seriously? Whether or not if you lose sleep over it is not my concern. Just to let you know I won't be afraid to approach you again whether it is to express agreement or otherwise :smile:

 

Why in the world would I care if you were afraid or not to approach me on a different thread ? It never crossed my mind let alone let it be something to worry about ? There was no need to even bring that up. I'm just answering some of your nonsense since you felt the need to say them .Debating is fun unless you are going nowhere in circles.Then it's pointless.Which is what this is.

 

Edited December 20, 2013 by Flaming Lea

[143jsr 38]

"You have been rude from the start so take your own advice.If you gave respect this wouldn't be an issue. As for taking it seriously, don't be a hypocrite or you wouldn't spend time going in circles with me."

 

From the beginning eh?

"There are still events that went down that we just don't know the hows and why's of concerning how they lost their hearts, how Saix was a successful nort despite being a traitor, and etc etc that we just don't know. Being able to discuss one part of the situation in itself doesn't make it predictable. You are just basically whining at this point . If you played Days and read all the reports you can see the friendship break down before your very eyes . But it's just one chapter . There is a long time period before this where Saix and Axel lost their hearts, joined the org , and planned a rebellion due to not trusting Xemnas all while one of them was norted despite wanting to betray Xemnas. They were not apprentices but lost their hearts in the lab and it was after the apprentices did. . There are many unanswered questions going on to call it predictable .Things that people keep wanting to know the answers to. Unless you have the answers to such things( which you don't ) then you can hardly argue that.. Using your logic just discussing any part of the plot in KH makes it predictable which is ridiculous."

 

At this point is where the rudeness started, and whose words are these? not mine.

Pointing out why I think you are wrong and why is considered rude to you ? There is a word for that - it's called butthurt . Read what is highlighted in red pls. I personally don't care whether someone is rude to me or not, but don't complain about me being rude when you start it.

 

"The reasons were relevant and i explained why . I also read your last response and I explained why I also don't agree. It doesn't matter if someone figures stuff out if it's not obvious to the majority."

 

Because I wasn't talking about the things we don't know which you were focused on. You didn't get it, I was speaking hypothetically, how are we supposed to know the future of what Nomura. It's just a scenario. Because I used specific examples doesn't make it less relevant just bc you can't answer it . I didn't ask for specific examples. I was only speaking hypothetically. All the info about what could have happened had nothing to do with this.

 

"I think i already told you i couldn't care less if you approve or not let alone if mine means anything to you." You told me that I did, so now what?

Because you kept trying to convince me  to change my opinion when it's not gonna change. Not everyone will agree with you . Yet you keep trying. I am not trying to get you to agree, I am trying to clear up the misreadings you made. I don't know if there is a better way to communicate the idea I had or not, but you were not understanding.

 

"Finally, why would I hold it against you in the future? That would infer I cared . Or are you the type you are worried about ?  I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it." Hehe, You're still here despite sounding like you don't want to be. I love me a debates, are you kidding me? You think I'm taking this seriously? Whether or not if you lose sleep over it is not my concern. Just to let you know I won't be afraid to approach you again whether it is to express agreement or otherwise :smile:

 

Why in the world would I care if you were afraid or not to approach me on a different thread ? It never crossed my mind let alone let it be something to worry about ? There was no need to even bring that up. I'm just answering some of your nonsense since you felt the need to say them .Debating is fun unless you are going nowhere in circles.Then it's pointless.Which is what this is. Welp, you better not complain that I'm annoying next time. Most of this nonsense was trying to get a point though your head you weren't getting. Oh, you do care, if it's nonsense then why are you still here? Really, this is best part, were I just fool around and giggle as the other person keeps on trying to get the last word. So here's an option, there seems to be a case of misunderstanding, tell me what did you think I meant when I said everything?

 

Whoo! quoteception going on here! *fixed*!

Edited December 20, 2013 by AbioFlesh

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

 Replies in purple

"You have been rude from the start so take your own advice.If you gave respect this wouldn't be an issue. As for taking it seriously, don't be a hypocrite or you wouldn't spend time going in circles with me."

 

From the beginning eh?

"There are still events that went down that we just don't know the hows and why's of concerning how they lost their hearts, how Saix was a successful nort despite being a traitor, and etc etc that we just don't know. Being able to discuss one part of the situation in itself doesn't make it predictable. You are just basically whining at this point . If you played Days and read all the reports you can see the friendship break down before your very eyes . But it's just one chapter . There is a long time period before this where Saix and Axel lost their hearts, joined the org , and planned a rebellion due to not trusting Xemnas all while one of them was norted despite wanting to betray Xemnas. They were not apprentices but lost their hearts in the lab and it was after the apprentices did. . There are many unanswered questions going on to call it predictable .Things that people keep wanting to know the answers to. Unless you have the answers to such things( which you don't ) then you can hardly argue that.. Using your logic just discussing any part of the plot in KH makes it predictable which is ridiculous."

 

At this point is where the rudeness started, and whose words are these? not mine.

Pointing out why I think you are wrong and why is considered rude to you ? There is a word for that - it's called butthurt . Read what is highlighted in red pls. I personally don't care whether someone is rude to me or not, but don't complain about me being rude when you start it. 

 

One, you called yourself teenage whiny mode.I referenced that. Two, being rude does matter if you want them to bother listening to what you have to say .

 

"The reasons were relevant and i explained why . I also read your last response and I explained why I also don't agree. It doesn't matter if someone figures stuff out if it's not obvious to the majority."

 

Because I wasn't talking about the things we don't know which you were focused on. You didn't get it, I was speaking hypothetically, how are we supposed to know the future of what Nomura. It's just a scenario. Because I used specific examples doesn't make it less relevant just bc you can't answer it . I didn't ask for specific examples. I was only speaking hypothetically. All the info about what could have happened had nothing to do with this.

 

Yes it does because it still applies if even more so because it's directly on topic and giving specific examples proving what i'm referring to. For someone who loves debating you should know the importance of examples to prove your point.

 

"I think i already told you i couldn't care less if you approve or not let alone if mine means anything to you." You told me that I did, so now what?

Because you kept trying to convince me  to change my opinion when it's not gonna change. Not everyone will agree with you . Yet you keep trying. I am not trying to get you to agree, I am trying to clear up the misreadings you made. I don't know if there is a better way to communicate the idea I had or not, but you were not understanding. 

 

Possibly or I was not agreeing which you don't seem to accept .

 

"Finally, why would I hold it against you in the future? That would infer I cared . Or are you the type you are worried about ?  I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it." Hehe, You're still here despite sounding like you don't want to be. I love me a debates, are you kidding me? You think I'm taking this seriously? Whether or not if you lose sleep over it is not my concern. Just to let you know I won't be afraid to approach you again whether it is to express agreement or otherwise :smile:

 

Why in the world would I care if you were afraid or not to approach me on a different thread ? It never crossed my mind let alone let it be something to worry about ? There was no need to even bring that up. I'm just answering some of your nonsense since you felt the need to say them .Debating is fun unless you are going nowhere in circles.Then it's pointless.Which is what this is. Welp, you better not complain that I'm annoying next time. Most of this nonsense was trying to get a point though your head you weren't getting. Oh, you do care, if it's nonsense then why are you still here? Really, this is best part, were I just fool around and giggle as the other person keeps on trying to get the last word. So here's an option, there seems to be a case of misunderstanding, tell me what did you think I meant when I said everything?

 

It's annoying to talk in circles with someone who thinks its YOU who doesn't understand when they clearly told you that they do but just don't agree.It's rude to act like someone doesn't "get it" bc they don't agree with what you are saying .MAYBE they just don't agree .PERIOD. It's ok to not agree and have different opinions.I'm here bc you ask me specific things and i'm answering them for you. We might be just misunderstanding each other .That happens too and text can be misleading when it comes to tone..( I also tend to be blunt and to the point ) .Maybe something came off differently then intended . That happens too. But I'm not gonna act like a little kid when we can just say we have a difference of opinion and be done

 

Whoo! quoteception going on here! *fixed*!

[143jsr 38]

AbioFlesh, on 20 Dec 2013 - 5:20 PM, said:

 

"You have been rude from the start so take your own advice.If you gave respect this wouldn't be an issue. As for taking it seriously, don't be a hypocrite or you wouldn't spend time going in circles with me."

 

From the beginning eh?

"There are still events that went down that we just don't know the hows and why's of concerning how they lost their hearts, how Saix was a successful nort despite being a traitor, and etc etc that we just don't know. Being able to discuss one part of the situation in itself doesn't make it predictable. You are just basically whining at this point . If you played Days and read all the reports you can see the friendship break down before your very eyes . But it's just one chapter . There is a long time period before this where Saix and Axel lost their hearts, joined the org , and planned a rebellion due to not trusting Xemnas all while one of them was norted despite wanting to betray Xemnas. They were not apprentices but lost their hearts in the lab and it was after the apprentices did. . There are many unanswered questions going on to call it predictable .Things that people keep wanting to know the answers to. Unless you have the answers to such things( which you don't ) then you can hardly argue that.. Using your logic just discussing any part of the plot in KH makes it predictable which is ridiculous."

 

At this point is where the rudeness started, and whose words are these? not mine.

Pointing out why I think you are wrong and why is considered rude to you ? There is a word for that - it's called butthurt . Read what is highlighted in red pls. I personally don't care whether someone is rude to me or not, but don't complain about me being rude when you start it. 

 

One, you called yourself teenage whiny mode.I referenced that. Two, being rude does matter if you want them to bother listening to what you have to say .

 

You know that was only referring to the line that came after that, it was a joke, I was making fun of myself, then in the next paragraph I went back to being serious. So it was okay for you to be rude due to misunderstanding but not me?

 

"The reasons were relevant and i explained why . I also read your last response and I explained why I also don't agree. It doesn't matter if someone figures stuff out if it's not obvious to the majority."

 

Because I wasn't talking about the things we don't know which you were focused on. You didn't get it, I was speaking hypothetically, how are we supposed to know the future of what Nomura. It's just a scenario. Because I used specific examples doesn't make it less relevant just bc you can't answer it . I didn't ask for specific examples. I was only speaking hypothetically. All the info about what could have happened had nothing to do with this.

 

Yes it does because it still applies if even more so because it's directly on topic and giving specific examples proving what i'm referring to. For someone who loves debating you should know the importance of examples to prove your point.

 

And this entire time a was trying to tell you that I was talking about something else. Examples are no use if we aren't on the same page. What you were talking about with what else could have happened did relate to earlier in the post, but not where we were talking about predictability. I said the predictability was based off of your first post here, nothing else. I tried to narrow it down.

 

"I think i already told you i couldn't care less if you approve or not let alone if mine means anything to you." You told me that I did, so now what?

Because you kept trying to convince me  to change my opinion when it's not gonna change. Not everyone will agree with you . Yet you keep trying. I am not trying to get you to agree, I am trying to clear up the misreadings you made. I don't know if there is a better way to communicate the idea I had or not, but you were not understanding. 

 

Possibly or I was not agreeing which you don't seem to accept .

Nope, misreadings. there is really nothing in your argument to accept or deny, I understand that there is more to the story, I understand how so much could have contributed to it. But that wasn't the focus, the focus was if the first statement you made was an interesting plot point.

 

"Finally, why would I hold it against you in the future? That would infer I cared . Or are you the type you are worried about ?  I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it." Hehe, You're still here despite sounding like you don't want to be. I love me a debates, are you kidding me? You think I'm taking this seriously? Whether or not if you lose sleep over it is not my concern. Just to let you know I won't be afraid to approach you again whether it is to express agreement or otherwise :smile:

 

Why in the world would I care if you were afraid or not to approach me on a different thread ? It never crossed my mind let alone let it be something to worry about ? There was no need to even bring that up. I'm just answering some of your nonsense since you felt the need to say them .Debating is fun unless you are going nowhere in circles.Then it's pointless.Which is what this is. Welp, you better not complain that I'm annoying next time. Most of this nonsense was trying to get a point though your head you weren't getting. Oh, you do care, if it's nonsense then why are you still here? Really, this is best part, were I just fool around and giggle as the other person keeps on trying to get the last word. So here's an option, there seems to be a case of misunderstanding, tell me what did you think I meant when I said everything?

 

It's annoying to talk in circles with someone who thinks its YOU who doesn't understand when they clearly told you that they do but just don't agree.It's rude to act like someone doesn't "get it" bc they don't agree with what you are saying .MAYBE they just don't agree .PERIOD. It's ok to not agree and have different opinions.I'm here bc you ask me specific things and i'm answering them for you. We might be just misunderstanding each other .That happens too and text can be misleading when it comes to tone..( I also tend to be blunt and to the point ) .Maybe something came off differently then intended . That happens too. But I'm not gonna act like a little kid when we can just say we have a difference of opinion and be done

 

You're bringing it back to this, I am fully aware that we had a difference in opinion, I told you that wasn't what I'm worried about. I can accept that you have a different opinion. I enjoy hearing what others have to say. But I wanted to hear your opinion in relevance to what I was talking about. You kinda broadened that one topic out about predictability and shock value a little bit too much. (I think I finally found the words for it) All I wanted to know is this right here: If you would be surprised (or any emotion of disbelief) towards what you said the main reason is (at the very beginning) without the support of new source material. That's all I wanted to know.

Edited December 20, 2013 by AbioFlesh

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

 

AbioFlesh, on 20 Dec 2013 - 5:20 PM, said:

 

"You have been rude from the start so take your own advice.If you gave respect this wouldn't be an issue. As for taking it seriously, don't be a hypocrite or you wouldn't spend time going in circles with me."

 

From the beginning eh?

"There are still events that went down that we just don't know the hows and why's of concerning how they lost their hearts, how Saix was a successful nort despite being a traitor, and etc etc that we just don't know. Being able to discuss one part of the situation in itself doesn't make it predictable. You are just basically whining at this point . If you played Days and read all the reports you can see the friendship break down before your very eyes . But it's just one chapter . There is a long time period before this where Saix and Axel lost their hearts, joined the org , and planned a rebellion due to not trusting Xemnas all while one of them was norted despite wanting to betray Xemnas. They were not apprentices but lost their hearts in the lab and it was after the apprentices did. . There are many unanswered questions going on to call it predictable .Things that people keep wanting to know the answers to. Unless you have the answers to such things( which you don't ) then you can hardly argue that.. Using your logic just discussing any part of the plot in KH makes it predictable which is ridiculous."

 

At this point is where the rudeness started, and whose words are these? not mine.

Pointing out why I think you are wrong and why is considered rude to you ? There is a word for that - it's called butthurt . Read what is highlighted in red pls. I personally don't care whether someone is rude to me or not, but don't complain about me being rude when you start it. 

 

One, you called yourself teenage whiny mode.I referenced that. Two, being rude does matter if you want them to bother listening to what you have to say .

 

You know that was only referring to the line that came after that, it was a joke, I was making fun of myself, then in the next paragraph I went back to being serious. So it was okay for you to be rude due to misunderstanding but not me?

 

"The reasons were relevant and i explained why . I also read your last response and I explained why I also don't agree. It doesn't matter if someone figures stuff out if it's not obvious to the majority."

 

Because I wasn't talking about the things we don't know which you were focused on. You didn't get it, I was speaking hypothetically, how are we supposed to know the future of what Nomura. It's just a scenario. Because I used specific examples doesn't make it less relevant just bc you can't answer it . I didn't ask for specific examples. I was only speaking hypothetically. All the info about what could have happened had nothing to do with this.

 

Yes it does because it still applies if even more so because it's directly on topic and giving specific examples proving what i'm referring to. For someone who loves debating you should know the importance of examples to prove your point.

 

And this entire time a was trying to tell you that I was talking about something else. Examples are no use if we aren't on the same page. What you were talking about with what else could have happened did relate to earlier in the post, but not where we were talking about predictability. I said the predictability was based off of your first post here, nothing else. I tried to narrow it down.

 

"I think i already told you i couldn't care less if you approve or not let alone if mine means anything to you." You told me that I did, so now what?

Because you kept trying to convince me  to change my opinion when it's not gonna change. Not everyone will agree with you . Yet you keep trying. I am not trying to get you to agree, I am trying to clear up the misreadings you made. I don't know if there is a better way to communicate the idea I had or not, but you were not understanding. 

 

Possibly or I was not agreeing which you don't seem to accept .

Nope, misreadings. there is really nothing in your argument to accept or deny, I understand that there is more to the story, I understand how so much could have contributed to it. But that wasn't the focus, the focus was if the first statement you made was an interesting plot point.

 

"Finally, why would I hold it against you in the future? That would infer I cared . Or are you the type you are worried about ?  I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it." Hehe, You're still here despite sounding like you don't want to be. I love me a debates, are you kidding me? You think I'm taking this seriously? Whether or not if you lose sleep over it is not my concern. Just to let you know I won't be afraid to approach you again whether it is to express agreement or otherwise :smile:

 

Why in the world would I care if you were afraid or not to approach me on a different thread ? It never crossed my mind let alone let it be something to worry about ? There was no need to even bring that up. I'm just answering some of your nonsense since you felt the need to say them .Debating is fun unless you are going nowhere in circles.Then it's pointless.Which is what this is. Welp, you better not complain that I'm annoying next time. Most of this nonsense was trying to get a point though your head you weren't getting. Oh, you do care, if it's nonsense then why are you still here? Really, this is best part, were I just fool around and giggle as the other person keeps on trying to get the last word. So here's an option, there seems to be a case of misunderstanding, tell me what did you think I meant when I said everything?

 

It's annoying to talk in circles with someone who thinks its YOU who doesn't understand when they clearly told you that they do but just don't agree.It's rude to act like someone doesn't "get it" bc they don't agree with what you are saying .MAYBE they just don't agree .PERIOD. It's ok to not agree and have different opinions.I'm here bc you ask me specific things and i'm answering them for you. We might be just misunderstanding each other .That happens too and text can be misleading when it comes to tone..( I also tend to be blunt and to the point ) .Maybe something came off differently then intended . That happens too. But I'm not gonna act like a little kid when we can just say we have a difference of opinion and be done

 

You're bringing it back to this, I am fully aware that we had a difference in opinion, I told you that wasn't what I'm worried about. I can accept that you have a different opinion. I enjoy hearing what others have to say. But I wanted to hear your opinion in relevance to what I was talking about. You kinda broadened that one topic out about predictability and shock value a little bit too much. (I think I finally found the words for it) All I wanted to know is how you think this right here: If you would be surprised (or any emotion of disbelief) towards what you said the main reason is (at the very beginning) without the support of new source material. That;s all I wanted to know.

 

 

 

1-That thing is getting way too long so i'm just gonna reply like this  . All I did was point out that it was ridiculous to say that just bc something can be discussed then its predictable bc the vast majority might not have thought of it just bc someone did.

 

2- Specific examples did apply bc those aspects aren't answered and aren't 'predicted ' and applied to the main point they supported.

 

3-And my opinion was that it still was interesting and I stated why and since you  want to disagree with my opinion you obviously don't accept it and still want to argue it.

 

4- This info was given in DDD , right ? Well I was surprised by the whole entire plan of nortification and what it entailed but wasn't surprised by the fact that we did know there was something different about Xigbar and Saix ( eyes and ears plus Nomura hinting about seeds, and Xehanort talking about his many roads )and had suspicions of those particular two but not the whole plan that eventually was laid out .See ? Examples of knowing or predicting one part but still being shocked in the next game once I found out the entire storyline involving this . My friend on here and i both guessed about implanting hearts in those two but not the entire plan using all the org members as possible vessels and time travel and how it all tied together .Perfect example of what i'm trying to tell you why I feel the way I do . So if given more additional information that I did not know that spiced up stuff that i did know that vastly affected the given situation - then YES I would still be surprised and therefore entertained 

[143jsr 38]

1-That thing is getting way too long so i'm just gonna reply like this  . All I did was point out that it was ridiculous to say that just bc something can be discussed then its predictable bc the vast majority might not have thought of it just bc someone did.

 

2- Specific examples did apply bc those aspects aren't answered and aren't 'predicted ' and applied to the main point they supported.

 

3-And my opinion was that it still was interesting and I stated why and since you  want to disagree with my opinion you obviously don't accept it and still want to argue it.

 

4- This info was given in DDD , right ? Well I was surprised by the whole entire plan of nortification and what it entailed but wasn't surprised by the fact that we did know there was something different about Xigbar and Saix ( eyes and ears plus Nomura hinting about seeds, and Xehanort talking about his many roads )and had suspicions of those particular two but not the whole plan that eventually was laid out .See ? Examples of knowing or predicting one part but still being shocked in the next game once I found out the entire storyline involving this . My friend on here and i both guessed about implanting hearts in those two but not the entire plan using all the org members as possible vessels and time travel and how it all tied together .Perfect example of what i'm trying to tell you why I feel the way I do . So if given more additional information that I did not know that spiced up stuff that i did know that vastly affected the given situation - then YES I would still be surprised and therefore entertained 

 

1. Well, some of the language choices and tone were questionable, that is what got me

2. Refer to # 4

3. Refer to #4

4. It sounds more like you are talking about Xehanort revealing his plans in 3d being what surprised you instead of the actual moment when it is revealed as to how Axel and Saix started to tear apart. Maybe that was the issue, your reasoning sounded a little bit indirect to what is being reason so I couldn't really click it together. Do you think you can tell me what you think about the Axel/Saix relationship and how that surprised you. It's not that you're not agree with my opinion, you can have a completely different opinion and I won't care, just that the opinion you have doesn't make much sense to me.

Edited December 21, 2013 by AbioFlesh

[KH4Real 749]

The death of Xehanort may indeed destroy Isa and I can see here a emotional ending with Lea and Ven.

[Raziel 248]

Do you think you can tell me what you think about the Axel/Saix relationship and how that surprised you.

Holy mother of shit...

 

This went on longer than I thought it would. o.O

 

But to answer your bold: It's surprising because it was introduced in 3D and not even hinted whatsoever in any other game, besides the yellow eyes and ears, which isn't much of a hint in the first place. I don't see any other way to put it.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

1. Well, some of the language choices and tone were questionable, that is what got me

2. Refer to # 4

3. Refer to #4

4. It sounds more like you are talking about Xehanort revealing his plans in 3d being what surprised you instead of the actual moment when it is revealed as to how Axel and Saix started to tear apart. Maybe that was the issue, your reasoning sounded a little bit indirect to what is being reason so I couldn't really click it together. Do you think you can tell me what you think about the Axel/Saix relationship and how that surprised you. It's not that you're not agree with my opinion, you can have a completely different opinion and I won't care, just that the opinion you have doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Number 4 was giving you an example of how you can figure out a plot point and still end up surprised once you find out the entire detailed plot - not necessarily towards Axel and Saix. When it comes to them , say you figure out that Saix becoming more and more Xehanort and that adversely affects his actions and personality . Axel growing a heart would affect this because before that he might not have been pushed away from this  as much especially if he were successfully norted too.( which he wasn't) But then in KH3 we find out certain things or events due to this situation(being norted) that deepened it further ( ulterior motives as you would say ) and we were surprised about how that affected them and the situation then yes as a whole despite knowing about one part the other part you didn't know still made the entire situation "shocking" or surprising after all. It's all about presentation and the end result that matters once its all tied together . I'm not against there being other factors ( i always agreed with that ) but I think when it comes down to it , the main factor was the one that was the core of it all. ..

 

At first we didn't know why they considered themselves changing - but now bc of DDD we do know and the plot to that wasn't even written to recently( as Nomura himself said).  Saix becoming Xehanort was still surprising to many and the details to that are scarce as of now.The details could add that shock factor in the same way .

[143jsr 38]

Holy mother of shit...

 

This went on longer than I thought it would. o.O

 

But to answer your bold: It's surprising because it was introduced in 3D and not even hinted whatsoever in any other game, besides the yellow eyes and ears, which isn't much of a hint in the first place. I don't see any other way to put it.

Number 4 was giving you an example of how you can figure out a plot point and still end up surprised once you find out the entire detailed plot - not necessarily towards Axel and Saix. When it comes to them , say you figure out that Saix becoming more and more Xehanort and that adversely affects his actions and personality . Axel growing a heart would affect this because before that he might not have been pushed away from this  as much especially if he were successfully norted too.( which he wasn't) But then in KH3 we find out certain things or events due to this situation(being norted) that deepened it further ( ulterior motives as you would say ) and we were surprised about how that affected them and the situation then yes as a whole despite knowing about one part the other part you didn't know still made the entire situation "shocking" or surprising after all. It's all about presentation and the end result that matters once its all tied together . I'm not against there being other factors ( i always agreed with that ) but I think when it comes down to it , the main factor was the one that was the core of it all. ..

 

At first we didn't know why they considered themselves changing - but now bc of DDD we do know and the plot to that wasn't even written to recently( as Nomura himself said).  Saix becoming Xehanort was still surprising to many and the details to that are scarce as of now.The details could add that shock factor in the same way .

 

 

I hate having to use my frontal cortex to this level, but I'll try.

 

Um, so basicly you guys would find the reasoning behind a relationship being destroyed (if it happens in the future) surprising because of what happened in ddd and how this whole plot can lead up to it? I think I get what your saying, but not really the connection. 

 

If that's your reasoning, that's your reasoning, even if I didn't decipher it right.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I hate having to use my frontal cortex to this level, but I'll try.

 

Um, so basicly you guys would find the reasoning behind a relationship being destroyed (if it happens in the future) surprising because of what happened in ddd and how this whole plot can lead up to it? I think I get what your saying, but not really the connection. 

 

If that's your reasoning, that's your reasoning, even if I didn't decipher it right.

 

 

I want to know the details, the whys, and the hows and how it all ties together . To see the big picture and be like ' wow' . It's like, have you ever watched a movie, figured out a part of it and predicted a detail of the outcome but still ended up surprised in the end once everything was revealed bc the rest of the details you didn't know added to the whole picture? That's what i'm talking about .

[143jsr 38]

I want to know the details, the whys, and the hows and how it all ties together . To see the big picture and be like ' wow' . It's like, have you ever watched a movie, figured out a part of it and predicted a detail of the outcome but still ended up surprised in the end once everything was revealed bc the rest of the details you didn't know added to the whole picture? That's what i'm talking about .

 

Alright, I understand what you are talking about completely though you did break the rule to my question,

 

About the movie thing though, eh, not really, usually that only works for me when certain hints that change the outcome to something I wouldn't expect are made cleverly subtle.

Edited December 22, 2013 by AbioFlesh

[The Rocky Shoe 169]

Alright, I understand what you are talking about completely though you did break the rule to my question,

My arguement about Kairi NOT being important action-wise lasted longer and had more people than this. But this was quite lengthy. GJ.

[143jsr 38]

My arguement about Kairi NOT being important action-wise lasted longer and had more people than this. But this was quite lengthy. GJ.

 

Of course it would, you questioned the power of Kairi.

 

Anyways, it's all due to lack of expressing ideas clearly. And as someone who has a hard time with words, this happens a lot to me.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Alright, I understand what you are talking about completely though you did break the rule to my question,

 

About the movie thing though, eh, not really, usually that only works for me when certain hints that change the outcome to something I wouldn't expect are made cleverly subtle.

 

That's cool . Everyone has their own preferences

[Dave 5,715]

My two cents on the Isa conversion to Xehanort is that I think it really cheapens the character. Removing Saix's autonomy and making him less responsible for the jerk he's become is kind of weak. The reason why Saix was one of my favourite characters for a while was that we got to see him try to scrape and claw his way up the ladder of the Organization, more or less using his old friend Axel to help him do it. The motivations for the character make sense, and you can trace it throughout his appearances: in BBS, he's obviously more no-nonsense than Lea, and is far more concerned about getting the job done. Then, once in the Organization, he wants to make an impression, enough so that he's willing to orchestrate the deaths of Vexen and Zexion. Leading to KHII, when he finally has the position he wants as one of the top guys. In the process, he loses the only friend he ever had, because his heart (or lack there of one) is no longer focused on friendship, but on power. It makes sense, makes his character more rich, his motivations are well developed, and his arc is solid. To make him just another stooge really means that nothing he did was really of his own doing, making his character almost negligible.