Axel and Roxas' friendship was not real

[Varnish 319]

First of all, I would like to note that anything to do with "shipping" does not belong here.

 

Because Saix/Isa was Axel/Lea's original friend, and the two of them grew apart during their time in the Organisation, I think that Axel wanted to be Roxas' "friend" more out of desperation than anything else. He knew that there was no hope in him befriending Saix again, as the two of them were too different by that point, and because Roxas was a "clean slate" with no memories of a past life, Axel seized the opportunity and decided to pretend to befriend Roxas, because befriending someone with no real past seemed to be a very easy task.

Other moments in the games (e.g. Axel saying that he would miss Roxas if he left the Organisation), despite the fact that they may seem genuine, are simply Axel becoming more desperate not to lose his replacement. He treats Roxas as an object above anything else, and he would not have befriended Roxas if Saix had stayed with him.

 

Here is a visible example of how desperate Axel was:

To me, this dialogue seems to be quite forceful on Axel's part.

 

In case I have not been thorough enough, this should help explain my point (this thread was inspired by this):

http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/post/62690153748/as-long-as-youre-doing-long-awesome-rambles-think-you

 

Comments would be appreciated.

[VisitJoan 2,713]

HOW DARE YOU!  Kidding, kidding.

 

I have to disagree with you.  The example doesn't do it for me.  It makes sense that Axel would say that because Roxas just came into the world and doesn't know anything.  Doesn't sound forceful to me at all.

[Reyn 1,755]

First of all, I would like to note that anything to do with "shipping" does not belong here.

 

Because Saix/Isa was Axel/Lea's original friend, and the two of them grew apart during their time in the Organisation, I think that Axel wanted to be Roxas' "friend" more out of desperation than anything else. He knew that there was no hope in him befriending Saix again, as the two of them were too different by that point, and because Roxas was a "clean slate" with no memories of a past life, Axel seized the opportunity and decided to pretend to befriend Roxas, because befriending someone with no real past seemed to be a very easy task.

Other moments in the games (e.g. Axel saying that he would miss Roxas if he left the Organisation), despite the fact that they may seem genuine, are simply Axel becoming more desperate not to lose his replacement. He treats Roxas as an object above anything else, and he would not have befriended Roxas if Saix had stayed with him.

 

Here is a visible example of how desperate Axel was:

To me, this dialogue seems to be quite forceful on Axel's part.

 

In case I have not been thorough enough, this should help explain my point (this thread was inspired by this):

http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/post/62690153748/as-long-as-youre-doing-long-awesome-rambles-think-you

 

Comments would be appreciated.

Well actually, the secret reports in the 358/2 days movie in 1.5 are written by Axel. They talk about how at the start, Axel didnt really care for Roxas, and just befriended him under orders. But after meeting Sora in CO in COM, he actually started to like Roxas and become more friendly with him. By the end of 358/2 Days, im sure Axel genuinely did not want Roxas to leave since they were true friends. I mean come on, he tried to turn Sora into a heartless just to bring him back, im sure it wasnt just Axel desperately wanting someone to be his friend.

[Wisdomform 221]

Axel was under orders to help Roxas when he first joined Organization 13.

 

After the mission they got icecream, and I guess that's when they became friends.

 

Their friendship could have been based on Lea longing for his lost friendship with Isa...

 

but as the time went on he really started to see Roxas as a true friend, becuase the Isa he once knew is gone.

[MasterXemnas 2,285]

Fool. Nah, I just think they became real friends.

[Varnish 319]

Well actually, the secret reports in the 358/2 days movie in 1.5 are written by Axel. They talk about how at the start, Axel didnt really care for Roxas, and just befriended him under orders. But after meeting Sora in CO in COM, he actually started to like Roxas and become more friendly with him. By the end of 358/2 Days, im sure Axel genuinely did not want Roxas to leave since they were true friends. I mean come on, he tried to turn Sora into a heartless just to bring him back, im sure it wasnt just Axel desperately wanting someone to be his friend.

I think that the only reason for why he would have become more friendly is because he then realised that Roxas would do well as a replacement for the friendship that he lost, so he treated Roxas in the same way as he would have treated Saix; back in the day; when they were teenagers.

I think that Axel would have wanted to turn Sora into a Heartless for the same reason for why he did not want Roxas to leave the Organisation-because he did not want to lose his replacement.

Do not misunderstand me; I would like to think that the friendship was real as well; I am simply coming to terms with the fact that it was not.

[Ultima Spark 753]

...you do realise the gifs you posted were from very early in the game? Not exactly reliable evidence to go on.

 

Also, it literally offends me when people claim their friendship wasn't real; maybe not at first (on Axel's part, at least) but by the end of Days and KH2? Yes, yes, it was as real as anything. Flawed, certainly, considering Axel's duplicitous nature, but he obviously cared about/thought very highly of Roxas.

 

Just to hammer the point home, in KH2FM, Axel refers to Roxas as 相棒 aibou, "partner". That's not a term taken lightly; you only use it if you seriously mean it.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Ultima Spark

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Part of the reason Saix and Axel's friendship broke was bc Saix was a jerk and tried to force Axel to choose between friendships. When Axel was around both Roxas and Sora he began to feel emotions like he had a heart . Saix mocked him for that and helped push Axel away . Saix tried reminding Axel of their private agenda but bc of Saix's actions overtime Axel chose his friendship with Roxas and Xion over Saix. .Axel tried to maintain both friendships but was later forced to choose.He could've just stuck with Saix and their plan but chose not to bc they both had changed in different ways. We know now that Axel was growing a new heart that was nurtured by being around Sora and Roxas who had a heart .I don't think he used Roxas but ended up with genuine emotions and feelings that led to his own self growing a heart .He even told Sora on his 'deathbed' that Sora made him feel like Roxas did - like he had a heart . ( his whole goal in joining the org in the first place was to get his heart back which shows you how much it meant to him ) .Over time, as his heart grew,  Axel himself changed but for the better -unlike Saix. He started off not caring about Roxas but over time he developed a heart and a true friendship - enough to defy the org, enough to die for his friend, and enough to pledge to always bring his friends back. Nothing fake about that at all.

[Varnish 319]

...you do realise the gifs you posted were from very early in the game? Not exactly reliable evidence to go on.

 

Also, it literally offends me when people claim their friendship wasn't real; maybe not at first (on Axel's part, at least) but by the end of Days and KH2? Yes, yes, it was as real as anything. Flawed, certainly, considering Axel's duplicitous nature, but he obviously cared about/thought very highly of Roxas.

 

Just to hammer the point home, in KH2FM, Axel refers to Roxas as 相棒 aibou, "partner". That's not a term taken lightly; you only use it if you seriously mean it.

 

 

Part of the reason Saix and Axel's friendship broke was bc Saix was a jerk and tried to force Axel to choose between friendships. When Axel was around both Roxas and Sora he began to feel emotions like he had a heart . Saix mocked him for that and helped push Axel away . Saix tried reminding Axel of their private agenda but bc of Saix's actions overtime Axel chose his friendship with Roxas and Xion over Saix. .Axel tried to maintain both friendships but was later forced to choose.He could've just stuck with Saix and their plan but chose not to bc they both had changed in different ways. We know now that Axel was growing a new heart that was nurtured by being around Sora and Roxas who had a heart .I don't think he used Roxas but ended up with genuine emotions and feelings that led to his own self growing a heart .He even told Sora on his 'deathbed' that Sora made him feel like Roxas did - like he had a heart . ( his whole goal in joining the org in the first place was to get his heart back which shows you how much it meant to him ) .Over time, as his heart grew,  Axel himself changed but for the better -unlike Saix. He started off not caring about Roxas but over time he developed a heart and a true friendship - enough to defy the org, enough to die for his friend, and enough to pledge to always bring his friends back. Nothing fake about that at all.

That does not change an awful lot about my standpoint. What I am saying is that Axel only befriended Roxas so he could substitute for the friendship that Axel and Roxas used to have. There is no denying that.

As for the source that I gave, the people who wrote that are very experienced. They know what they are talking about.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

That does not change an awful lot about my standpoint. What I am saying is that Axel only befriended Roxas so he could substitute for the friendship that Axel and Roxas used to have. There is no denying that.

As for the source that I gave, the people who wrote that are very experienced. They know what they are talking about.

 Actually you are stating someones opinion from another site as factual which it clearly is not . Unless they are Nomura themselves their viewpoint isn't canon fact or worth more than anyone else's here . There is no evidence whatsoever to back this opinion up and nothing you have presented has proven this opinion either . Axel cried when he had his goodbye with Roxas on the clocktower . That was genuine emotion .He could've stayed with Saix and their plan but it was AXEL who chose to break off the friendship with Saix- not Saix. . Why ? Because growing a heart had changed him and if you read the secret reports it shows how Axel changed over time and how he viewed Roxas and Xion .. There is way more 'evidence' shown to support this friendship as genuine then anything you posted saying it wasn't .

[Keyblader 325]

I both agree with you and disagree with you.  Perhaps it may have been ingenuine at first, but I don't at all believe that Axel was doing it because "he was desperate."  There is too much evidence against the contrary.  Late in the game, when he has to confront Xion at the mansion, you can see the raw emotion surging through him.  Axel was torn.  He'd finally found two friends who are simple, people who he can just talk with and not have to worry about complications, and everything was slipping away from him.  In KH2, he was tasked with bringing Roxas back.  While it may have been an order, I believe Axel saw it as a chance to get his friend back.  When Roxas first showed signs of remembering, Axel was almost overjoyed, but his hopes were dashed as Roxas couldn't recall Xemnas's name.  Finally, when it all came down to the end, Axel had just given up.  He had lost all hope that he would have his friend back, knowing where he was going and what he planned to do.  Roxas was essentially gone, and i imagine it killed him on the inside.

 

There's also Axel's death, where he clearly states that Roxas was the only one he liked, that he made him feel like he had a heart.

 

If that doesn't convince you, look at the conversation Roxas and Axel have on the tower.  Not only referencing what Ultima Spark said, but at the very end.  A tear fell.  You don't cry from something you're not sincere about.  

[Danex Darkfire + 1,712]

He didn't originally intend to become friends with him, but they grew together

Edited October 4, 2013 by Danex Darkfire

[Nweintraub 630]

Maybe he was just sad that he had to leave him.

[Varnish 319]

Part of the reason Saix and Axel's friendship broke was bc Saix was a jerk and tried to force Axel to choose between friendships. When Axel was around both Roxas and Sora he began to feel emotions like he had a heart . Saix mocked him for that and helped push Axel away . Saix tried reminding Axel of their private agenda but bc of Saix's actions overtime Axel chose his friendship with Roxas and Xion over Saix. .Axel tried to maintain both friendships but was later forced to choose.He could've just stuck with Saix and their plan but chose not to bc they both had changed in different ways. We know now that Axel was growing a new heart that was nurtured by being around Sora and Roxas who had a heart .I don't think he used Roxas but ended up with genuine emotions and feelings that led to his own self growing a heart .He even told Sora on his 'deathbed' that Sora made him feel like Roxas did - like he had a heart . ( his whole goal in joining the org in the first place was to get his heart back which shows you how much it meant to him ) .Over time, as his heart grew,  Axel himself changed but for the better -unlike Saix. He started off not caring about Roxas but over time he developed a heart and a true friendship - enough to defy the org, enough to die for his friend, and enough to pledge to always bring his friends back. Nothing fake about that at all.

 

 

If that doesn't convince you, look at the conversation Roxas and Axel have on the tower.  Not only referencing what Ultima Spark said, but at the very end.  A tear fell.  You don't cry from something you're not sincere about.

Understood. I am sorry for bothering both of you.

[Dave 5,715]

While the loss of Saix as a friend undoubtedly left a gap that needed filling in Axel's (metaphorical) heart, I don't really see why that would make his eventual friendship with Roxas any less sincere. The argument that there is nothing of substance in that the friendship relies almost entirely on the beginning of their relationship, and doesn't take into account the character development of Axel and Roxas. At the beginning, they are very much just acquaintances, and Axel views his role as, like he puts it, the "Babysitter." As time goes on, they begin to actually see each other for their own merits, and that working relationship becomes companionship.

[Soul Eater Evans 4,045]

Although I doubt this could be true, I fancy the idea and all the melancholy behind it.

 

 

"After losing Xion, he wanted to hang on to his only other friend. But that was just a lie, too."

[KH4Real 749]

As long as they are laughing which each other and having fun make them friends.

[ZOBLIVION 13]

Axel was under orders to help Roxas when he first joined Organization 13.

 

After the mission they got icecream, and I guess that's when they became friends.

 

Their friendship could have been based on Lea longing for his lost friendship with Isa...

 

but as the time went on he really started to see Roxas as a true friend, becuase the Isa he once knew is gone.

Thanks from sparing me from writing all of this!