13 Worlds Theory... a sham? or real?

[Skai 3,961]

So you guys may know that every numbered game (or games on par with it: Birth by Sleep and Dream Drop Distance) in the series has 13 worlds, but did you know that 3D also had 13 worlds?  While some worlds may not be playable, there are still 13 worlds.  To add to this in Chain of Memories, both characters go through 13 floors each.

To recap Kingdom Hearts I has:

• Destiny Islands
• Disney Castle (Shown through cutscenes)
• Traverse Town
• Wonderland
• Olympus Coliseum
• Deep Jungle
• Agrabah
• Monstro (Although not a real world, it is considered to be on par with one.)
• Atlantica
• Halloween Town
• Neverland
• Hallow Bastion
• End of the World

Kingdom Hearts II:

• Twilight Town (and by extension, Mysterious Tower)
• Destiny Islands (Shown through many, many cutscenes)
• Hallow Bastion/Radiant Garden
• Land of the Dragons
• Beast's Castle
• Olympus Coliseum
• Disney Castle
• Port Royal
• Atlantica
• Agrabah
• Halloween Town
• Pride Lands
• The World that Never Was

Birth by Sleep:

• Land of Departure/Castle Oblivion
• Enchanted Dominion
• Castle of Dreams
• Dwarf Woodlands
• Mysterious Tower
• Radiant Garden
• Disney Town
• Olympus Coliseum
• Deep Space
• Neverland
• Destiny Islands (Shown through cutscenes)
• Mirage Arena
• Badlands/Keyblade Graveyard

and finally, Dream Drop Distance:

• Destiny Islands (Cutscenes, inside Sora's heart, and briefly in the outer perimeter of the world)
• Mysterious Tower (Cutscenes)
• Radiant Garden (Cutscenes)
• Disney Castle (Cutscenes)
• Traverse Town
• La Cite des Cloches
• Prankster's Paradise
• Monstro (Yes, I know this can be arguable, but it is technically a different entity and in Kingdom Hearts 1 was considered to be a world-like place.)
• The Grid
• Country of the Musketeers
• Symphony of Sorcery
• Castle Oblivion (The most brief of cutscenes.)
• The World that Never Was

While this all may be true, there are holes in this theory:

• If you were to count all cutscenes in this world theory, Twilight Town is shown in Blank Points.
• 100 Acre Wood can also be counted as a world in both Kingdom Hearts I and II.
• Space Paranoids is a copy of a world and copies still count.
• Dive to the Heart (DttH) may also be considered as a world, but this is arguable.
• The Realm of Darkness (RoD) can be considered a world-like place, arguable also.
• The Badlands part of the Keyblade Graveyard was an accessible place in Kingdom Hearts 2: Final Mix+.

If one to add these up, it would end with:

• KHI: 14 (Counting DttH: 15)
• KHII: 15 (Counting DttH and RoD: 17)
• KHIIFM+: 16 (Counting DttH and RoD: 18)
• BbS: 14 (Counting DttH and RoD: 16)
• 3D: 13 (Counting DttH: 14)

 

In conclusion, I will assume that Nomura may or may not intend to always include at least thirteen worlds in these entries, but he does so anyways.  Just because there are thirteen worlds, does not make the game limited to only thirteen.  I can safely assume that Kingdom Hearts III will at least have thirteen worlds, but hope for more.  I do wish for at least thirteen playable worlds and not just counting them because of cutscenes.

 

What do you guys think about this?  Is the 13 Worlds Theory a sham or real?

Edited July 12, 2013 by Sky Heart

[Shard the Gentleman 2,891]

In KHII, Destiny Islands was a legitamate world, although not playable, it wasn't just flashbacks, same with BBS. As for DDD, Although there were not 13 worlds visited, there were 13 keyholes to be sealed. 1 in Destiny Islands, and two in every other world.

[Caity 3,946]

Technically we were in Mysterious Tower in 3D, we went there to access Symphony of Sorcery through the books, which would mean you could say Mysterious Tower is also by extension (as you only go into 2 areas) to SoS, and judging by that you should either not count it for 3D or count it for KH2, making 3D's total 12 or KH2's 14.  

 

But I would suspect KH3 to have 13 worlds either way.  

[The Protagonist 332]

Ok thats it,Normua has a fetish for the number 13.I bet he cried inside when they changed FFVSXlll to FF XV.But the number 13 is starting to grow on me.....help

[Nathan Hatton 274]

Good points about the 13 worlds in each game.

 

I disagree on a few things though.

 

1. Dive to the Heart is not a world. It's part of sora's heart. (Hence the name "dive to the heart")

 

2. The Realm of Darkness isn't a world, similar to how Kingdom hearts itself is not a world. They are merely opposites of each other, one holding light, and one holding darkness. Characters can exist in the Realm of darkness and in the realm of light (KH itself). this is shown through the final battles in KH2 (KH) and many cutscenes through the other games (RoD)

 

As far as the other points:

 

- I don't think 100 acre wood is counted in KH or KH2 because it is entered through a book, not through normal means.

 

- I DO think space paranoids should count personally, but since it is entered by means of a computer, it could fall into the same catagory as 100 Acre Wood, going with my previous point. But if The Grid can count as a world, and tron remembered Sora, then Space paranoids should count as well.

 

- If space paranoids counts in KH2, then destiny islands would not, though it is shown in cutscenes

 

- I personally dont think the final mix expansions should count.

 

For KH3D, I personally think that the idea is that there are 7 worlds.

1. Traverse Town

2. La Cite de Cloches

3. The Grid

4. Prankster's Paradise (both the amusement park and monstro, I don't think Monstro is a different world, which I will explain why below)

5. Land of the Muskateers

6. Symphony of Sorcery

7. The World that Never Was.

 

My reasoning for this, is that these are the worlds that are traveled to. Yes, there are other worlds in the cutscenes but I feel like those 7 are the 7 important worlds visited in the game. I do not count Monstro as a separate world because you must remember that Riku dove into Sora's dreams. It is entirely possible that upon encountering pinochio, sora began to dream of his previous encounter with him inside Monstro, where he found Riku with Kairi, which would cause Riku to enter that portion of the world. Mysterious tower is not really a vital world to the story in this game besides being the starting point from which the journey through dreams begins.

 

Also, 3D, is the first game to introduce the idea of the 7 lights to fight the 13 darknesses. For this reason, I feel like 7 worlds makes the most sense.

 

I personally think that KH, CoM, KH2, and BBS all have 13 fundamentally important worlds. It can be argued that KH2 has several more, but as far as ones that are vital to the story (again why space paranoids should count as it was the system created by ansem the wise) I think there are 13 in each game. I think KH3D has 7 fundamentally important ones as I explained above, coinciding with the introduction of the 7 lights. 

 

I hope that KH3 has 20 worlds, to represent the final culmination of the 13 lights with 7 darknesses as they fight to conclude the Xehanort Saga. I think that would be awesome as well as larger amount of worlds than ever before.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

2 other things to note:

 

- KH re:Coded has 7 worlds:

1. Disney Castle

2. Destiny Islands

3. Traverse Town

4. Olympus Coloseum

5. Wonderland

6. Agrabah

7. Hollow Bastion

 

- KH 358/2 Days has 7 worlds visited on missions

1. Twilight Town

2. Agrabah

3. Beast's Castle

4. Halloween Town

5. Olympus Coloseum

6. Wonderland

7. Neverland

I realize the world that never was is the hub from which all the missions depart, but I am treating it like the mysterious tower in KH3D, important, but not a vital world in this particular story. (besides the scene where Riku captures Roxas after turning into Ansem, but to be honest, this is more of a lead in to the 7 days at the start of KH2 than a vital part of the main story between Roxas, Axel, and Xion.)

 

Just my personal opinions. Enjoy!

[VanitasTheBest 196]

I think in the BbS list should be the RoD instead of Mirage Arena. I never saw the Mirage Arena as a World in Kingdom Hearts, it's more like a Multiplayer Option they implemented in the World Map because they didn't want to make a new Start Menu.

 

 

- I don't think 100 acre wood is counted in KH or KH2 because it is entered through a book, not through normal means.

 

- I personally dont think the final mix expansions should count.

Merlin said 100 Acre Wood is a WORLD special to Hollow Bastion. So, it's ... a World o.oAnd the Final Mix Versions are official Final Versions of the games... If anything counts then they do

Edited July 12, 2013 by VanitasTheBest

[Jennifer1200 11]

13 worlds: 13 darknesses7 worlds: 7 lightsseems legit.(BTW I got the 7 from this person:)

Nathan Hatton, on 11 Jul 2013 - 22:15, said:Good points about the 13 worlds in each game.I disagree on a few things though.1. Dive to the Heart is not a world. It's part of sora's heart. (Hence the name "dive to the heart")2. The Realm of Darkness isn't a world, similar to how Kingdom hearts itself is not a world. They are merely opposites of each other, one holding light, and one holding darkness. Characters can exist in the Realm of darkness and in the realm of light (KH itself). this is shown through the final battles in KH2 (KH) and many cutscenes through the other games (RoD)As far as the other points:- I don't think 100 acre wood is counted in KH or KH2 because it is entered through a book, not through normal means.- I DO think space paranoids should count personally, but since it is entered by means of a computer, it could fall into the same catagory as 100 Acre Wood, going with my previous point. But if The Grid can count as a world, and tron remembered Sora, then Space paranoids should count as well.- If space paranoids counts in KH2, then destiny islands would not, though it is shown in cutscenes- I personally dont think the final mix expansions should count.For KH3D, I personally think that the idea is that there are 7 worlds.1. Traverse Town2. La Cite de Cloches3. The Grid4. Prankster's Paradise (both the amusement park and monstro, I don't think Monstro is a different world, which I will explain why below)5. Land of the Muskateers6. Symphony of Sorcery7. The World that Never Was.My reasoning for this, is that these are the worlds that are traveled to. Yes, there are other worlds in the cutscenes but I feel like those 7 are the 7 important worlds visited in the game. I do not count Monstro as a separate world because you must remember that Riku dove into Sora's dreams. It is entirely possible that upon encountering pinochio, sora began to dream of his previous encounter with him inside Monstro, where he found Riku with Kairi, which would cause Riku to enter that portion of the world. Mysterious tower is not really a vital world to the story in this game besides being the starting point from which the journey through dreams begins.Also, 3D, is the first game to introduce the idea of the 7 lights to fight the 13 darknesses. For this reason, I feel like 7 worlds makes the most sense.I personally think that KH, CoM, KH2, and BBS all have 13 fundamentally important worlds. It can be argued that KH2 has several more, but as far as ones that are vital to the story (again why space paranoids should count as it was the system created by ansem the wise) I think there are 13 in each game. I think KH3D has 7 fundamentally important ones as I explained above, coinciding with the introduction of the 7 lights. I hope that KH3 has 20 worlds, to represent the final culmination of the 13 lights with 7 darknesses as they fight to conclude the Xehanort Saga. I think that would be awesome as well as larger amount of worlds than ever before.------------------------------------------------------------------2 other things to note:- KH re:Coded has 7 worlds:1. Disney Castle2. Destiny Islands3. Traverse Town4. Olympus Coloseum5. Wonderland6. Agrabah7. Hollow Bastion- KH 358/2 Days has 7 worlds visited on missions1. Twilight Town2. Agrabah3. Beast's Castle4. Halloween Town5. Olympus Coloseum6. Wonderland7. NeverlandI realize the world that never was is the hub from which all the missions depart, but I am treating it like the mysterious tower in KH3D, important, but not a vital world in this particular story. (besides the scene where Riku captures Roxas after turning into Ansem, but to be honest, this is more of a lead in to the 7 days at the start of KH2 than a vital part of the main story between Roxas, Axel, and Xion.)Just my personal opinions. Enjoy!

[RoxSox 3,593]

13 worlds in every game... 13 Organization Members... 13 seen Keyblade Wielders... K I N G D O M H E A R T S (count the letters. I dare you.)

The list goes on and on. I fully expect 13 worlds to be in KH3.

[Nathan Hatton 274]

I think in the BbS list should be the RoD instead of Mirage Arena. I never saw the Mirage Arena as a World in Kingdom Hearts, it's more like a Multiplayer Option they implemented in the World Map because they didn't want to make a new Start Menu.

 

 

Merlin said 100 Acre Wood is a WORLD special to Hollow Bastion. So, it's ... a World o.oAnd the Final Mix Versions are official Final Versions of the games... If anything counts then they do

I didn't mean that it wasn't a world, I do think it is a world, just not necessarily a world vital to the plot of the games. And you are correct the final mix is the final version, but the badlands portion of KH2 FM+ is again, not vital to the storyline of the game, so I don't think it counts as part of the 13. My reason for the emphasis on "vital" worlds is that recently Nomura stated that the worlds included in KH3 will only be ones that can progress the storyline and not be there just to have more worlds. That's why I don't count several worlds in the games because they didn't have the most important role. (In this case atlantica should not count in Kh2 though)

 

There are lots of possibilities though! I agree with you about mirage arena. I didn't notice that in the original post. Definitely not a world, though I personally don't consider the Realm of Darkness a world but that's just me 

[VanitasTheBest 196]

And you are correct the final mix is the final version, but the badlands portion of KH2 FM+ is again, not vital to the storyline of the game, so I don't think it counts as part of the 13

That's arguable. The encounter of Lingering Sentiment is imo pretty vital, because we hear the names of Aqua, Ven and Xehanort in connection with the Keyblade for the first Time. Also the Lingering Sentiment says something like "You're not the one I chose" and we know now that he meant Riku with that. The connection between Riku and Terra is pretty important for the story ...

[Nathan Hatton 274]

That's arguable. The encounter of Lingering Sentiment is imo pretty vital, because we hear the names of Aqua, Ven and Xehanort in connection with the Keyblade for the first Time. Also the Lingering Sentiment says something like "You're not the one I chose" and we know now that he meant Riku with that. The connection between Riku and Terra is pretty important for the story ...

Oh ok good point!!! I wasn't thinking about it in that way. You are definitely right that is a huge part of the overall story!! When I talk about the places being vital to the story, I mean each individual game. And though that sequence is huge for the overall story, it has little impact on the specific story of KH2. Kinda like The World that Never Was in 358/2 Days. It is the place where you live and depart to all your missions, but besides that, the game has very little happening there. Most of the game events occur in the 7 worlds where the missions take place. 

 

I think you have a really good argument there though. I just dont see that as vital to the particular plot of KH2 alone.

[VeNate13 144]

It would make sense if kingdom hearts 3 had 13 worlds.

[jorrell3946 70]

Kingdom Hearts III Should have 13 Worlds.

[PrinceNoctis 1,011]

Love your theory!

 

Kingdom Hearts III Should have 13 Worlds.

And it should be released in 2015...on it's 13th anniversary! WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT?!