KH3D KH3D Rant

[keystrike 145]

This is in part response to the thread "DDD makes every other game worthless" but I figure it has enough merit on its own to warrant a thread. You don't have to agree with everything, but I think most of what I said is game for consideration as I have tried to keep away from as many subjective topics as possible. This should be clear but these are just my knocks against the game. Praises can wait to another day.

 

Where to begin? I'll begin with the fact that this shouldn't even have been a game in the first place. Not in the sense that it was so terrible that it shouldn't have been made in the first place, but in the sense that it litterally popped into being over a brief course of at most four months. Why do I say this? The Birth by Sleep Ultimania released some three months before E3 2010 when kh3d was announced in it, there was no mention of kh3d, in fact it suggested that the ending in blank points when Sora sets off on his new journey was kh3 by saying it "ties to kh3." Despite the truth of that statement still holding today, I think its clear what they were going for. Yep, it was KH2-->Coded-->KH3, and not Dream Drop Distance.

 

They say that a specific game would be released before the tenth anniversary, so that was kh3d and it was going to release before the tenth anniversary instead of on it? No that was Birth by Sleep Volume 2 and although at one point they planned to release both kh3d and bbsv2 in the end only kh3d made it.

 

Now for the actual story. The best way to describe it is that they botched it. Birth by Sleep ended beautifully with the promise of hope. Sora confirms to Kairi that he has to go away again to help those who made him who he is. Kairi accepts this and gives him the lucky charm saying "hurry home." Fast forward to kh3d and... they are taking a test? Wait what about saving those in torment?

 

"Oh, well this is a necesity."

 

If they make it a necessary in KH3 you must remember that this would all be after the fact. Because the game hasn't been set in stone a number of methods may have  been used of rescuing Roxas and Xion (who's torment I would claim to be the hardest to heal).

 

The continuity between Birth by Sleep's ending and KH3D's opening almost makes me sick to my stomach. Another big knock against the game: Where is Kairi? Its extremely ironic that the main trio is actually the weakest (Hayner, Pence, Ollete included!). Sora had his good luck charm with him the whole time and didn't look at it once, he didn't think of her once. Imagine if Sora took out his good luck charm when he saw Kairi during his nightmares and suddenly it turned into Ven's wayfinder, what an effect that would have had? (or not, but you can bet they could have done something with it.)

 

The story had its redeeming moments: Riku confronting XH, Riku meeting Ansem the Wise again, Sora telling Braig "my hearts are my power," and honestly the incorporation of the overall story into the disney worlds, but the overal plot is poisoning. 

 

You might have guessed that time travel would be my next target and you would have been correct. What it makes up for in not throwing the whole series' timeline into question it loses pretty much everywhere else. The game reduces time travel to a set of rules for the avid fan to memorize and then trip over himself trying to figure out what happened in the game. Not even the opening scenes can be deciphered and so the base for theorizing on kh3 is swept from beneath our feet. The whole thing with time travel as it is now is just plain stupid.

 

Now for the secret ending. What can I criticize? Because most of you have probably recognized this I'll keep this brief. Why do Donald, Goofy, and Mickey all freak out when they see Kairi? You'd think it was Roxas or one of the BBS trio who showed, but no its Kairi. I'm sorry, but that was just so stupid! I hope to one day see Kairi as more of a plot device but considering her role in this ending as building up anticipation I don't see her role changing in the very near future. (To cut them some slack on this scene they did have to change it last minute but the end product is still the end product)

 

Oh and the gameplay was a bit messy.

[Weiss 8,279]

This is in part response to the thread "DDD makes every other game worthless" 

That troll turned out more successful then I would have ever imagined

 

 

Now for the actual story. The best way to describe it is that they botched it. 

It was quite rushed

 

 

Wait what about saving those in torment?

To be fair Ansem did give Riku the data that was needed for that in KH3D

Where is Kairi? Its extremely ironic that the main trio is actually the weakest (Hayner, Pence, Ollete included!). Sora had his good luck charm with him the whole time and didn't look at it once, he didn't think of her once. Imagine if Sora took out his good luck charm when he saw Kairi during his nightmares and suddenly it turned into Ven's wayfinder, what an effect that would have had? (or not, but you can bet they could have done something with it.)

He knew she was safe on the islands and we don't have proof he never thought of her. (unless he has no thoughts) 

You might have guessed that time travel would be my next target and you would have been correct. What it makes up for in not throwing the whole series' timeline into question it loses pretty much everywhere else. The game reduces time travel to a set of rules for the avid fan to memorize and then trip over himself trying to figure out what happened in the game. Not even the opening scenes can be deciphered and so the base for theorizing on kh3 is swept from beneath our feet. The whole thing with time travel as it is now is just plain stupid.

While the time travel rules in kh are fair I would have preferred Nomura not to do it.

Now for the secret ending. What can I criticize? Because most of you have probably recognized this I'll keep this brief. Why do Donald, Goofy, and Mickey all freak out when they see Kairi? You'd think it was Roxas or one of the BBS trio who showed, but no its Kairi. I'm sorry, but that was just so stupid! I hope to one day see Kairi as more of a plot device but considering her role in this ending as building up anticipation I don't see her role changing in the very near future. (To cut them some slack on this scene they did have to change it last minute but the end product is still the end product)

Considering she was very hinted at being a light and she is a princess of heart I can see her role getting bigger in the future, actually.

[Shazzam 142]

Thank you, this needed to be said. And now that I think about it, the transition from the BbS secret ending to the DDD beginning is a bit disjointed. I too felt this game was a little rushed, and they definitely could have done alot better. You make a good point about Kairi, and we could have done without the time travel. Well said.

[Spiney 125]

I agree about the time travel, as for me, it didn't seem very KHish. I still love the hell out KH3d though, mainly for gameplay aspects. Fighting was no longer just smashing the A button. They added in a lot and made it have more in depth.

[Keyblader 325]

I will agree with you about Kairi.  After CoM, she wasn't as special.

 

As for the story, I guess it was a bit rushed, but I still feel the idea of it was necessary, at least in terms of the Mark of Mastery part.  The rest of it just seemed like an excuse for Nomura to troll us with some rather confusing plot twists (I'm still a bit lost on the time travel stuff anyways ).  One thing I wonder though is that in Re:Coded's secret ending, Yen Sid hints at the possibility to there being more than one Xehanort, yet he seems utterly shocked at the events that unfold in KH3D.  What was that about?

[Rob 5,571]

It could have done without the time travel.

[keystrike 145]

That troll turned out more successful then I would have ever imagined  The points made had enough merit. I just thought you were careless to consider other aspects.

To be fair Ansem did give Riku the data that was needed for that in KH3D And that data was? I thought it was just for Sora to be himself which seemed to serve the players more than the characters

He knew she was safe on the islands and we don't have proof he never thought of her. (unless he has no thoughts) I hope the novel shows Sora thinking of her because that format lends itself much better to what a character is thinking at any time. In fact I hope the novel straightens out a lot of this, but so far even that doesn't seem to be the case.

While the time travel rules in kh are fair I would have preferred Nomura not to do it. Agreed

Considering she was very hinted at being a light and she is a princess of heart I can see her role getting bigger in the future, actually. I sure hope so...

 

Responses in red.

 

I will agree with you about Kairi.  After CoM, she wasn't as special.

 

As for the story, I guess it was a bit rushed, but I still feel the idea of it was necessary, at least in terms of the Mark of Mastery part.  The rest of it just seemed like an excuse for Nomura to troll us with some rather confusing plot twists (I'm still a bit lost on the time travel stuff anyways ).  One thing I wonder though is that in Re:Coded's secret ending, Yen Sid hints at the possibility to there being more than one Xehanort, yet he seems utterly shocked at the events that unfold in KH3D.  What was that about?

I really wasn't expecting to find more flaws in the game, but now that you mention it I really don't have any adequate reason why Yen Sid was so surprised. 

[Velvet Scarlatina 607]

...Am I the only one who didn't mind the time travel. At least there was an explanation behind it, instead of just "Young Xehanort went to different time periods because we were running out of ideas". Maybe it does seem that way to you, but to me, and the whole reveal about the true purpose of Organization XIII was genius in my eyes.

 

And about Kairi. Someone said it before above me, but she was safe on the islands. I do agree that she is very underdeveloped, and I hope to see her have a bigger role in the future, but she wasn't needed in this, or at least as much as some people emphasized.

 

Still, think what you want. I still love the series regardless of its flaws.

[NO_HEART_XIII 312]

I don't mind the time travel thing at all. It gave us an explanation as to why Ansem was just a walking robe in KH1, and why he was there to begin with. Maybe they didn't think that far ahead, but who cares, it works. The time travel aspect gives them an excuse to bring back all the best villans, which I don't mind at all (I just hope they bring back Vanitas). DDD had some of the most epic boss fights in the series. I can't wait to see how this new Keyblade War unfolds. I love Kingdom Hearts no matter what it does.

Edited May 18, 2013 by NO_HEART_XIII

[Xer 670]

This is in part response to the thread "DDD makes every other game worthless" but I figure it has enough merit on its own to warrant a thread. You don't have to agree with everything, but I think most of what I said is game for consideration as I have tried to keep away from as many subjective topics as possible. This should be clear but these are just my knocks against the game. Praises can wait to another day.

 

Where to begin? I'll begin with the fact that this shouldn't even have been a game in the first place. Not in the sense that it was so terrible that it shouldn't have been made in the first place, but in the sense that it litterally popped into being over a brief course of at most four months. Why do I say this? The Birth by Sleep Ultimania released some three months before E3 2010 when kh3d was announced in it, there was no mention of kh3d, in fact it suggested that the ending in blank points when Sora sets off on his new journey was kh3 by saying it "ties to kh3." Despite the truth of that statement still holding today, I think its clear what they were going for. Yep, it was KH2-->Coded-->KH3, and not Dream Drop Distance.

 

They say that a specific game would be released before the tenth anniversary, so that was kh3d and it was going to release before the tenth anniversary instead of on it? No that was Birth by Sleep Volume 2 and although at one point they planned to release both kh3d and bbsv2 in the end only kh3d made it.

 

Now for the actual story. The best way to describe it is that they botched it. Birth by Sleep ended beautifully with the promise of hope. Sora confirms to Kairi that he has to go away again to help those who made him who he is. Kairi accepts this and gives him the lucky charm saying "hurry home." Fast forward to kh3d and... they are taking a test? Wait what about saving those in torment?

 

"Oh, well this is a necesity."

 

If they make it a necessary in KH3 you must remember that this would all be after the fact. Because the game hasn't been set in stone a number of methods may have  been used of rescuing Roxas and Xion (who's torment I would claim to be the hardest to heal).

 

The continuity between Birth by Sleep's ending and KH3D's opening almost makes me sick to my stomach. Another big knock against the game: Where is Kairi? Its extremely ironic that the main trio is actually the weakest (Hayner, Pence, Ollete included!). Sora had his good luck charm with him the whole time and didn't look at it once, he didn't think of her once. Imagine if Sora took out his good luck charm when he saw Kairi during his nightmares and suddenly it turned into Ven's wayfinder, what an effect that would have had? (or not, but you can bet they could have done something with it.)

 

The story had its redeeming moments: Riku confronting XH, Riku meeting Ansem the Wise again, Sora telling Braig "my hearts are my power," and honestly the incorporation of the overall story into the disney worlds, but the overal plot is poisoning. 

 

You might have guessed that time travel would be my next target and you would have been correct. What it makes up for in not throwing the whole series' timeline into question it loses pretty much everywhere else. The game reduces time travel to a set of rules for the avid fan to memorize and then trip over himself trying to figure out what happened in the game. Not even the opening scenes can be deciphered and so the base for theorizing on kh3 is swept from beneath our feet. The whole thing with time travel as it is now is just plain stupid.

 

Now for the secret ending. What can I criticize? Because most of you have probably recognized this I'll keep this brief. Why do Donald, Goofy, and Mickey all freak out when they see Kairi? You'd think it was Roxas or one of the BBS trio who showed, but no its Kairi. I'm sorry, but that was just so stupid! I hope to one day see Kairi as more of a plot device but considering her role in this ending as building up anticipation I don't see her role changing in the very near future. (To cut them some slack on this scene they did have to change it last minute but the end product is still the end product)

 

Oh and the gameplay was a bit messy.

I disagree with most of your stuff, but deserved a like anyway.

 

Well about what I think if you excuse me:

 

I believe that it should of been made, it's the best game for me done. The game was very epic and emotional. Sure BBS and 358/2 Days were emotional and sh*t, but this one had a huge impact, meeting almost all the freaking main characters from the series, geesh that's pure epicness.

 

Birth By Sleep Vol.2 was launched too quickly, it would be very rash to launch it right away, since they take eternities to launch games.

 

Saving those in torment? That was the dang test. To awake the seven sleeping keyholes ( worlds ) and to save them from their slumber, but it wasn't neither Sora or Riku's fault. Sora was seeing ilusions and was put to sleep. And Riku didn't had the idea that he was a Dream Eater and was inside of Sora's heart.

 

I agree with you on the Xion, Roxas's thing. Sora is the only one that actually can free them both, not Riku... Riku could possibly awaken Ventus though...

 

Yeah Nomura didn't plan very well that trio. Though Kairi only did crap in the whole games, didn't do nothing for shit. Hope she can do something with that keyblade of hers. I only remember Sora of missing her and hug her in Kingdom Hearts 2, nothing else, no kiss no nothing.

 

Strongly disagree on the plot. It was dimensional, it was brilliant, it was epic, specially the battles of the Xehanort trio ( Xemnas, Ansem and Young Xehanort ). And then we had the Nightmare Ventus/Sora.

 

God yes, the secret ending. That IS THE THING that I mostly agree with you. It was stupid, it was unnecessary, it should'f been excluded, might aswell had NO SECRET ENDING. Kairi? Seriously, why no Aqua? Terra? Nor Ventus?  Even if he had brought Xion what the hell. Stupid ending for an awesome game.

 

The gameplay was awesome.

[keystrike 145]

I disagree with most of your stuff, but deserved a like anyway.

 

Well about what I think if you excuse me:

 

I believe that it should of been made, it's the best game for me done. The game was very epic and emotional. Sure BBS and 358/2 Days were emotional and sh*t, but this one had a huge impact, meeting almost all the freaking main characters from the series, geesh that's pure epicness.

 

Birth By Sleep Vol.2 was launched too quickly, it would be very rash to launch it right away, since they take eternities to launch games.

 

Saving those in torment? That was the dang test. To awake the seven sleeping keyholes ( worlds ) and to save them from their slumber, but it wasn't neither Sora or Riku's fault. Sora was seeing ilusions and was put to sleep. And Riku didn't had the idea that he was a Dream Eater and was inside of Sora's heart.

 

I agree with you on the Xion, Roxas's thing. Sora is the only one that actually can free them both, not Riku... Riku could possibly awaken Ventus though...

 

Yeah Nomura didn't plan very well that trio. Though Kairi only did crap in the whole games, didn't do nothing for shit. Hope she can do something with that keyblade of hers. I only remember Sora of missing her and hug her in Kingdom Hearts 2, nothing else, no kiss no nothing.

 

Strongly disagree on the plot. It was dimensional, it was brilliant, it was epic, specially the battles of the Xehanort trio ( Xemnas, Ansem and Young Xehanort ). And then we had the Nightmare Ventus/Sora.

 

God yes, the secret ending. That IS THE THING that I mostly agree with you. It was stupid, it was unnecessary, it should'f been excluded, might aswell had NO SECRET ENDING. Kairi? Seriously, why no Aqua? Terra? Nor Ventus?  Even if he had brought Xion what the hell. Stupid ending for an awesome game.

 

The gameplay was awesome.

 

The game is "epic" by its very nature of those plot points near the end, but I would praise the story's integration into the Disney worlds as the highlight of the game. When YMX and Xemnas showed up in the Grid, and talked about the world in the big picture that made it.

 

Your wording with BBSV2 is too funky to understand. You just said it has both released an not released.

 

I don't think I would have had as big a problem with their "test" in the realm of sleep if they executed that bit of the story better. As it stands, I can come up with my own justifications, but none satisfy me to have simply not been shown.

 

Well, I'm sure we will know what goes down in a few years. Also, yea, Kairi needs to do something.

 

I don't think you can justify the plot being excellent with the boss battles, but I totally get what you mean that. Oh and it looks like we are in agreement with the secret ending

 

As far as the gameplay goes, again I think they were just a bit short on time. I would have liked flowmotion to feel a bit more exclusive because they set up neat little paths you could take with two second flowmotion intervals at a time but with the infinijump it all felt point pointless. I also had the most trouble with the camera in this game than any other (especially the spellican in traverse town 3rd district)... and I forgot the last thing I was going to say, but disagreements are welcome.

[Sora2 84]

Time travel answers any question

[Xer 670]

The game is "epic" by its very nature of those plot points near the end, but I would praise the story's integration into the Disney worlds as the highlight of the game. When YMX and Xemnas showed up in the Grid, and talked about the world in the big picture that made it.

 

Your wording with BBSV2 is too funky to understand. You just said it has both released an not released.

 

I don't think I would have had as big a problem with their "test" in the realm of sleep if they executed that bit of the story better. As it stands, I can come up with my own justifications, but none satisfy me to have simply not been shown.

 

Well, I'm sure we will know what goes down in a few years. Also, yea, Kairi needs to do something.

 

I don't think you can justify the plot being excellent with the boss battles, but I totally get what you mean that. Oh and it looks like we are in agreement with the secret ending

 

As far as the gameplay goes, again I think they were just a bit short on time. I would have liked flowmotion to feel a bit more exclusive because they set up neat little paths you could take with two second flowmotion intervals at a time but with the infinijump it all felt point pointless. I also had the most trouble with the camera in this game than any other (especially the spellican in traverse town 3rd district)... and I forgot the last thing I was going to say, but disagreements are welcome.

Sorry about the BBS thing.

 

What I was trying to say is that BBS was sold in 2009, it would be very rash if they released a new one right now.

[MAKS 86]

Eh'. I've argued about this game long enough. Let's just agree that it is what it is- water under the bridge. We can look forward to Kingdom Hearts 3!

[Isaix 924]

I don't mind the time travel thing at all. It gave us an explanation as to why Ansem was just a walking robe in KH1, and why he was there to begin with. Maybe they didn't think that far ahead, but who cares, it works. The time travel aspect gives them an excuse to bring back all the best villans, which I don't mind at all (I just hope they bring back Vanitas). DDD had some of the most epic boss fights in the series. I can't wait to see how this new Keyblade War unfolds. I love Kingdom Hearts no matter what it does.

I'm pretty sure we'll see Vanitas again,he'll probably be one of the Xehanorts.It would be a shame to throw away such a cool character.

 

I'm not a big fan of the time traveling for KH as well,things could get really messed up if they are not careful for future games,but its not that bad.It was well introduced in the serie if you ask me,they had specific rules and its a good way to bring back the vilains from previous games.