Are lesbians more accepted than gay men?

[TheApprenticeofKingMickey 3,689]

Okay, I know this is fodder for arguments and shitstorms and this thread could be locked because of the topic title. But the article I read addressing the issue had really, really interesting things to say on the societal and sociological aspects of homosexuality and gender so I thought I should share so maybe you guys could get some insight yourselves. But some of you could be too lazy to read all of it. ;P

 

 

CHICAGO (AP) — It may be a man's world, as the saying goes, but lesbians seem to have an easier time living in it than gay men do.

High-profile lesbian athletes have come out while still playing their sports, but not a single gay male athlete in major U.S. professional sports has done the same. While television's most prominent same-sex parents are the two fictional dads on "Modern Family," surveys show that society is actually more comfortable with the idea of lesbians parenting children.

And then there is the ongoing debate over the Boy Scouts of America proposal to ease their ban on gay leaders and scouts.

Reaction to the proposal, which the BSA's National Council will take up next month, has been swift, and often harsh. Yet amid the discussions, the Girl Scouts of USA reiterated their policy prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation, among other things. That announcement has gone largely unnoticed.

Certainly, the difference in the public's reaction to the scouting organizations can be attributed, in part, to their varied histories, including the Boy Scouts' longstanding religious ties and a base that has become less urban over the years, compared with the Girl Scouts'.

But there's also an undercurrent here, one that's often present in debates related to homosexuality, whether over the military's now-defunct "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy or even same-sex marriage. Even as society has become more accepting of homosexuality overall, longstanding research has shown more societal tolerance for lesbians than gay men, and that gay men are significantly more likely to be targets of violence.

That research also has found that it's often straight men who have the most difficult time with homosexuality — and particularly gay men — says researcher Gregory Herek.

"Men are raised to think they have to prove their masculinity, and one big part about being masculine is being heterosexual. So we see that harassment, jokes, negative statements and violence are often ways that even younger men try to prove their heterosexuality," says Herek, a psychologist at the University of California, Davis, who has, for years, studied this phenomenon and how it plays out in the gay community.

That is not, of course, to downplay the harassment lesbians face. It can be just as ugly.

But it's not as frequent, Herek and others have found, especially in adulthood. It's also not uncommon for lesbians to encounter straight men who have a fascination with them.

"The men hit on me. The women hit on me. But I never feel like I'm in any immediate danger," says Sarah Toce, the 29-year-old editor of The Seattle Lesbian and managing editor of The Contributor, both online news magazines. "If I were a gay man, I might — and if it's like this in Seattle, can you imagine what it is like in less-accepting parts of middle America?"

One of Herek's studies found that, overall, 38 percent of gay men said that, in adulthood, they'd been victims of vandalism, theft or violence — hit, beaten or sexually assaulted — because they were perceived as gay. About 13 percent of lesbians said the same.

A separate study of young people in England also found that, in their teens, gay boys and lesbians were almost twice as likely to be bullied as their straight peers. By young adulthood, it was about the same for lesbians and straight girls. But in this study, published recently in the journal Pediatrics, gay young men were almost four times more likely than their straight peers to be bullied.

At least one historian says it wasn't always that way for either men or women, whose "expressions of love" with friends of the same gender were seen as a norm — even idealized — in the 19th century.

"These relationships offered ample opportunity for those who would have wanted to act on it physically, even if most did not," says Thomas Foster, associate professor and head of the history department at DePaul University in Chicago.

Today's "code of male gendered behavior," he says, often rejects these kinds of expressions between men.

We joke about the "bro-mance" — a term used to describe close friendships between straight men. But in some sense, the humor stems from the insinuation that those relationships could be romantic, though everyone assumes they aren't.

Call those friends "gay," a word that's still commonly used as an insult, and that's quite another thing. Consider the furor over Rutgers University men's basketball coach Mike Rice, who was recently fired for mistreating his players and mocking them with gay slurs.

If two women dance together at a club or walk arm-in-arm down the street, people are usually less likely to question it — though some wonder if that has more to do with a lack of awareness than acceptance.

"Lesbians are so invisible in our society. And so I think the hatred is more invisible," says Laura Grimes, a licensed clinical social worker in Chicago whose counseling practice caters to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender clients.

Grimes says she also frequently hears from lesbians who are harassed for "looking like dykes," meaning that people are less accepting if they look more masculine.

Still, Ian O'Brien, a gay man in Washington, D.C., sees more room for women "to transcend what femininity looks like, or at least negotiate that space a little bit more."

O'Brien, who's 23, recently wrote an opinion piece tied to the Boy Scout debate and his own experience in the Scouts when he was growing up in the San Diego area.

"To put it simply: Being a boy is supposed to look one way, and you get punished when it doesn't," O'Brien wrote in the piece, which appeared in The Advocate, a national magazine for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender communities.

Joey Carrillo, a gay student at Elmhurst College in suburban Chicago, remembers trying to be as masculine as possible in high school. He hid the fact that he was gay, particularly around other athletes. As a wrestler, he says he never wanted to hear someone say, "Oh, THAT'S why he wrestles."

In fact, though more gay and lesbian athletes are coming out in college, gay male professional athletes in major sports have waited to do so until they have left their sport, one of the more recent being Robbie Rogers, an American soccer player who played professionally in England. There have been reports that gay male athletes who are currently playing may be on the verge of going public.

But women have already done so with little backlash.

U.S. soccer star Megan Rapinoe, for instance, came out right before she played in last year's Olympics. WNBA star Seimone Augustus and the league's No. 1 draft pick, Brittney Griner, are some of the more recent female athletes to follow suit.

In Hollywood in recent years, both openly gay men and lesbians have had successful careers. And when it comes to television and movies, it appears there are more high-profile gay male characters.

Still, while many see the two dads on the "Modern Family" sitcom as groundbreaking, others have a sense that the societal discomfort with gay men as parents is at the root of many of the jokes.

"A good portion of that is for comedic effect," says Don Todd, a 32-year-old father in a two-dad family in Orange, Calif. He doesn't think most people would think it was as funny if the characters were two moms.

Herek, the researcher at UC-Davis, has, in fact, found in surveys that heterosexuals think lesbians would be better parents than gay men.

Nancy Dreyer, a mother in a two-mom family, has noticed this in her own life.

"With gay male friends of ours who have kids, people will say, 'My gosh, who takes care of this baby?' — as if they're not capable," says Dreyer, whose 57 and lives in suburban Boston.

The assumption, she says, is that men aren't nurturing. And if they're too nurturing, she says, people get suspicious, noting that no one has ever questioned her and her partner about their ability to raise their son, who's now in college.

She's noticed the different ways society treats gay men and lesbians, partly because she has a brother,Benjamin Dreyer, who's gay. The Dreyer siblings say it's difficult to compare their experiences because Benjamin came out in college, and Nancy in her early 30s.

So he was the first to tell their parents. "They yelled at me. They took you to dinner," Benjamin Dreyer, who's 54 and works in publishing in New York City, now jokes with his sister.

Truth was, as a young gay man coming of age as the AIDS epidemic took hold, his parents simply worried, and with good reason, his sister says.

There's little doubt, they both say, that AIDS influenced the perception of gay men.

Benjamin Dreyer says he dealt with societal bias by avoiding it, and surrounding himself with people he knew would be supportive, including his parents, eventually.

But he's also realizing how quickly the need to do that is disappearing. He was surprised and pleased, for instance, when he attended his nephew's high school graduation last year. There, he saw a gay male graduate with his boyfriend, open and accepted by all his peers.

"It's mind-boggling," Benjamin Dreyer says. "It's wonderful."

Carrillo, too, decided to live openly when he arrived at Elmhurst College. He joined a fraternity and even painted a rainbow — a common symbol of the gay community — on his fraternity paddle. To his surprise, there was some backlash from a couple of his straight fraternity brothers who feared people would think their fraternity was the "gay fraternity."

"There's a long way to go," says Carrillo, who graduates next month. But he still feels hopeful.

"Honestly, I see it — everywhere there's progress.

 

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/lesbians-more-accepted-gay-men-173356759.html

[Rob 5,571]

Of course. Just like a man sleeping with many women is okay, but a woman sleeping with many men is not.

[dusk 910]

I'm not sure how common this is but on my personal experience, for many people it is generally depending on their own gender which is more acceptable: 

Some women I know say that gays are cute and stuff like that and some men I know say how hot lesbians are etc. I don't know, this is how things are out here.

[Madara Uchiha 50]

I think lesbians are accepted easier.

[Weiss 8,279]

Misogyny. Simple answer.

[waffle 82]

not where I live they're not, if anything they get it worse.

[Koko 3,944]

This perception may be because in society, men's opinion matter (or are noticed) more. And men tend to oversexualize women and see lesbians as hot and treat them as sexual objects of their pleasure and are in all, "okay" with lesbians. So more lesbians in  media because men say so p much. But when it comes to gay men, straight men are immediately put off. It has been said that the reason may be because straight men are scared of being treated by gay men like straight men treat women (rightfully so, the way some straight men treat any woman is disgusting). As well, to prove masculinity, cismen sometimes resort to violence and to prove their power over someone, they attack them. This plus the idea of not hitting girls because girls are "weak" make gay men (not lesbians or other DFAB queers) their target. This is what I'm thinking is the reason gay men are attacked more often. While it is hard to be a gay man because of how much more unaccepted they seem to be, I don't believe that they are any less accepted than lesbians. In fact gay men have a lot more privileges than other queer people (assuming theyre cis and straight passing). Many times, when talking about LGBT* rights, gay men are the ones people focus on. Some gay men try to erase bisexuals and trans*men. Gay men are never perceived as women hating but lesbians are always said to be man hating (and then cue the "i can make you straight" "you just havent found the right guy" "can i watch you firetruck another chick" etc etc). The popularity of lesbians in the media is a result of men fetishizing them.Gay men are not less accepted. Lesbians are just fetishized.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Koko

[kingdomlanelover 494]

Gay men are able to contract aids. That's why they are not easily accepted.

[Koko 3,944]

Gay men are able to contract aids. That's why they are not easily accepted.

 

wtf r u okay there

ANYONE can contract AIDS

straight men, straight women, gay women, gay men, trans*men, trans*women, nonbinaries, intersex people, asexuals, white people, black people, latin@ people, asian people, old people, young people

your logic makes no sense 

[Ben G 166]

I think it may be because women friendly or intimately kissing each other has been in movies/tv shows for a longer time but men doing that in movies/tv shows is relatively new.....there's my 2 cents

[goodman2008 66]

do you people even know what gay means in the dictionary it says to be gay is to be happy soo IT MEANS HAPPY

[Koko 3,944]

do you people even know what gay means in the dictionary it says to be gay is to be happy soo IT MEANS HAPPY

 

do you even know that language evolves and words have multiple meanings? and sometimes the dictionary ISN'T a reliable source as to what words mean in the real world and in society

yes gay means happy but the word gay has also adopted the meaning of being queer which was used to describe people who are attracted to the same sex

i dont know if youre actually uneducated or if youre trying to be funny, but either way, you're not contributing to this discussion so get out

Edited April 28, 2013 by Koko

[Ben G 166]

do you even know that language evolves and words have multiple meanings? and sometimes the dictionary ISN'T a reliable source as to what words mean in the real world and in societyyes gay means happy but the word gay has also adopted the meaning of being queer which was used to describe people who are attracted to the same sexi dont know if youre actually uneducated or if youre trying to be funny, but either way, you're not contributing to this discussion so get out

Exactly.....I don't like this word but for the sake of this point I have to use it :/Last I knew the word fa***t was defined as a bundle of sticks but now it's used as a derogatory slang word for gays Edited April 28, 2013 by Ben Guinan

[MyDixieRect 2,061]

Honestly these days I don't really see anyone who accepts one but dislikes another but for the few times I have...the problem is society is very male oriented, so whatever gets men going is usually considered acceptable, even favorable amongst men. It's why there are so many adverts of oversexualized women and why TV, movie and even videogame personalities have been changing over the years to fit a more desirable 'look' amongst males. It's easier to accept, even be pro someting that turns you on than something you may find unappealing. So lesbians are naturally more accepted than gays.

 

Edit: This is NOT me saying men are horny hound dogs with a one track mind!

Edited April 28, 2013 by Winner's Proof

[SummerRain 185]

This is true where I live. No one ever really says anything about the lesbians around here. We just have a bunch of people shouting "ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE!!" I've always wondered how come no one has a rhyme like that for Eve? Most of the homophobes where I live act like they hate everyone of the LGBT community, but how come the gay men get the worst treatment from them? Some of the reasons posted previously make sense, but if those were the answers, I still feel a little confused.  (Actually, hating anyone who's not straight in the first place confuses me still lol) I find this whole "lesbians are more accepted than gay men" really pointless because one group of people shouldn't be liked more than the other 

Edited April 28, 2013 by SummerRain

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

I don't know what's the deal about people hating gays so much.  If those people are happy the way they are, then don't bug them and let them be happy.  I'm straight and I'll never be gay, but I respect gays and lesbians and bi's.   I don't have a problem with those people.  The thing is that society is so constricted in their current lifestyle that they're afraid to embrace change, and they're often close minded and secluded.  And, as most members have said here, guys accept lesbians easily because as Koko said, they treat them like sexual objects and they don't mind seeing women kissing each other or doing other things.  I suggest that gay people be treated equal, and that there be no preference simply because of gender.  I find that to be incredibly stupid, and today's society should just grow some balls and stop being so close minded.

[kingdomlanelover 494]

wtf r u okay there

ANYONE can contract AIDS

straight men, straight women, gay women, gay men, trans*men, trans*women, nonbinaries, intersex people, asexuals, white people, black people, latin@ people, asian people, old people, young people

your logic makes no sense 

I know, I was just trolling.

[Sora96 17,256]

Yes they are. I honestly don't care either way though.

[FireRubies1 1,325]

I wouldn't be sure about really and truly accepted... but they seem to be more 'popular'?

Kind of like how women may be treated in general

men kind of just over sexualize females and find lesbians more appealing, but when it comes to gay men they're just really hateful.

I guess they either don't find it 'hot' and/or they were being raised to be masculine and not approve of gay relationships?

[xxClouDxxmoon 901]

Well being honest, around here its always the hot chicks that become lesbians, and the ugly unpopular guys that become gay. That may contribute to the reason.

[Weiss 8,279]

Well being honest, around here its always the hot chicks that become lesbians, and the ugly unpopular guys that become gay. That may contribute to the reason.

Aesthetics shouldn't be a factor in someone being accepted for who they are.

[xxClouDxxmoon 901]

Aesthetics shouldn't be a factor in someone being accepted for who they are.

Obviously in this world it is. If an ugly guy is murdered no one really cares, but if some hot woman is everyone cares.

[P50L 610]

When I came out, my mom got furious and threatened to disown me, but my dad well, he was more acceptingNow, when my Aunt (Mom's Sister) came out as lesbian, my mom was like "Aww, that's okay! I'll love you either way~"and omfg do you kno hw upset I have gotten omfg I'm like "REALLY? REALLY?? ???????"

[Koko 3,944]

Well being honest, around here its always the hot chicks that become lesbians, and the ugly unpopular guys that become gay. That may contribute to the reason.

 

no one becomes gay tho

there is an equal chance that someone attractive to you will be straight or that they will be queer

attractiveness varies by person anyways

ive met loads of unattractive lesbian girls and a lot of very attractive gay guys

so i dont know what the firetruck ur saying u just kind of sound like a douche

[Shana09 5,769]

So in other words, some straight/bisexual men just think lesbians are extremely sexy to the point they accept them no matter what, but when it's a gay guy it's automatically a threat to their virginity/anus. Not all gay guys aren't sexual objectifying hounds like the ones who oversexualize lesbians, so I honestly don't understand the logic behind these guys. 

 

 

Well being honest, around here its always the hot chicks that become lesbians, and the ugly unpopular guys that become gay. That may contribute to the reason.

 

 

Last time I checked being attracted to your own or both sexes doesn't come with having good looks nor bad looks depending if you're a guy or a girl. 

Edited April 29, 2013 by Shana09