Did Kingdom Hearts.....

[ReverofE 698]

Help contribute to this?

[Jordan Arnold 31]

wow

[Zola 3,038]

Picture one was taken at the beginning of VII, before Cloud knew how messed up he was.

Picture two was taken... uh... right after Aerith died?  ¯_(ツ)_/¯

 

Pretty true, though.  Never noticed this before.  

I guess Kingdom Hearts could have had something to do with it.  Cloud seemed alright before he got put into more games and movies and stuff.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Zola

[_The Door To Light_ 1,507]

Cloud became depressed after Aerith's death, but I think Advent Children made it worse.

[Weiss 8,279]

I think it has more to do with his story in the series than with kh.

[ReverofE 698]

Cloud became depressed after Aerith's death, but I think Advent Children made it worse.

Since they mixed in Zack's death with hers. Which made Cloud blame himself during most of the movie since he felt responsible for both of their deaths. Which is kind of true. 

[Dave 5,715]

In a reverse move of narrative, rather than feeling empowered and more self assured by saving the world, Cloud feels even worse than he did before.

 

So much for that whole "I'm gonna be me, no matter what my past was!" thing...

[Oishii 3,987]

To be fair, the way he is holding the sword in the current picture would be more difficult.  Holding it that way would put a lot of demand on the triceps which is a muscle that is difficult to build strength in.  Just saying

[Dracozombie 4,554]

KH had nothing to do with it.  The fans did for apparently liking him emo and thinking he is emo.  Nomura explicitly stated he wrote a Cloud "fans would be more familiar with," which wound up accomplishing the direct opposite and now Cloud's the poster boy for emo JRPG protagonists.

[Remains of Old 117]

Just take a look at Cloud's story. All that has happened to him...You know, perhaps meeting Sora even made him a little better?

[Xaldin III 80]

Kingdom Hearts is not the problem. Look at the postures of Ansem SOD, Xaldin, Lexaeus, and Saïx to name a few.

[Mystics Apprentice 2,397]

I'm curious...  Did Tetsuya Nomura sketch that original drawing of Cloud?  Since I believe he drew the one on the right, as he did the artwork for Kingdom Hearts, which could be why all of the similarities.

 

But yeah, they really do look very much alike.

[ReverofE 698]

I'm curious...  Did Tetsuya Nomura sketch that original drawing of Cloud?  Since I believe he drew the one on the right, as he did the artwork for Kingdom Hearts, which could be why all of the similarities.

 

But yeah, they really do look very much alike.

 

 

Kingdom Hearts is not the problem. Look at the postures of Ansem SOD, Xaldin, Lexaeus, and Saïx to name a few.

 

 

Just take a look at Cloud's story. All that has happened to him...You know, perhaps meeting Sora even made him a little better?

 

 

KH had nothing to do with it.  The fans did for apparently liking him emo and thinking he is emo.  Nomura explicitly stated he wrote a Cloud "fans would be more familiar with," which wound up accomplishing the direct opposite and now Cloud's the poster boy for emo JRPG protagonists.

 

 

In a reverse move of narrative, rather than feeling empowered and more self assured by saving the world, Cloud feels even worse than he did before.

 

So much for that whole "I'm gonna be me, no matter what my past was!" thing...

 

 

I think it has more to do with his story in the series than with kh.

But when they originally going to create the first Kingdom Hearts didn't they want Vincent in it but they didn't want two similar personalities in the same place. So they changed his appearance. Did they also sort of combine their personality as well making Cloud's even more depressing? Plus, the games that came between FF7 and Kingdom Hearts did they portray Cloud as so lone wolfy? If not, well then you know KH had something to do with it.

[Reyn 1,755]

Kingdom Hearts had nothing to do with Cloud being depressed after the end of VII, I mean look, his best friend saved him from a prison(more or less), and got killed because he was trying to protect him, and the worst part is that Cloud couldn't have done anything to save him due to he was too weak and in a coma. Aerith literally died right in front of Cloud, and im pretty sure he's blaming himself even now for not keeping his guard up and blocking Sephiroth's sword.

 

I mean, when you really think about it, it wasn't really Cloud's fault that either of them died. I mean, Cloud couldn't help Zack due to Hojo poisoning him with Mako and how was he supposed to know that Sephiroth would come out of nowhere(especially FROM THE CEILING!!!!) and stab Aerith. But of course, anyone would feel guilty about Zack and Aerith's deaths if they were in Cloud's position even if it wasn't their fault.

[Ruran 481]

I think the new design for Cloud makes him look more like he's deep in thought/aloof rather than "emo". I'd say the changes steam more from a mix of Nomura's style changing over the years (that older design for Cloud is RRRREEEAAAAAAALLLLLYYYY old) and interpreting him differently rather than anything KH related. For instance his belt appears higher on the first picture really because he has a shorter torso there. Without going into strenuous detail about about art I'll explain something right quick. The average human torso is approximately three of your heads tall. When you're taught to draw people this is one of the first things you learn so you can work off a base. "Anime" characters are commonly drawn with only two head tall torsos for a variety of reasons though that rule doesn't always apply. In a lot of his older designs that's how Nomura drew his human characters, with two head torsos, but as his style evolved he started going for a slightly more realistic approach and now gives his adult characters three head torsos (children and teenage characters are still drawn with two heads or as small as one and a half).

 

Why is this important to note? Because it's a change that has nothing to do with Cloud's personality. The older design has a smaller torso so he wears his belt higher because his hips are higher on his body while the newer design has a longer torso so his hips are lower. His more muscular frame can also be attributed to this as his upper body is more stout so he has to be drawn "wider" to compensate for the shortness. But when you compare his wide chest to his arms, they're pretty skinny considering how "muscular" his chest appears to be. Cloud apparently knows how to workout his pecks while ignoring his arms.

 

How these pictures are meant to be interpreted is up to debate but the newer design IS more anatomically correct so take that as you will. Oh, and KH had nothing to do with it. 

[Dracozombie 4,554]

I think the new design for Cloud makes him look more like he's deep in thought/aloof rather than "emo". I'd say the changes steam more from a mix of Nomura's style changing over the years (that older design for Cloud is RRRREEEAAAAAAALLLLLYYYY old) and interpreting him differently rather than anything KH related. For instance his belt appears higher on the first picture really because he has a shorter torso there. Without going into strenuous detail about about art I'll explain something right quick. The average human torso is approximately three of your heads tall. When you're taught to draw people this is one of the first things you learn so you can work off a base. "Anime" characters are commonly drawn with only two head tall torsos for a variety of reasons though that rule doesn't always apply. In a lot of his older designs that's how Nomura drew his human characters, with two head torsos, but as his style evolved he started going for a slightly more realistic approach and now gives his adult characters three head torsos (children and teenage characters are still drawn with two heads or as small as one and a half).

 

Why is this important to note? Because it's a change that has nothing to do with Cloud's personality. The older design has a smaller torso so he wears his belt higher because his hips are higher on his body while the newer design has a longer torso so his hips are lower. His more muscular frame can also be attributed to this as his upper body is more stout so he has to be drawn "wider" to compensate for the shortness. But when you compare his wide chest to his arms, they're pretty skinny considering how "muscular" his chest appears to be. Cloud apparently knows how to workout his pecks while ignoring his arms.

 

How these pictures are meant to be interpreted is up to debate but the newer design IS more anatomically correct so take that as you will. Oh, and KH had nothing to do with it. 

 

You're right about the design itself, but you're missing the real point. =P We're mainly complaining about the changes done to Cloud as a whole, and how the new design appears to reflect those (poor) changes.  If you didn't know much about Cloud and the shifts he's gone through, you'd be in the right, but we're speaking for far more than design and anatomy.

[Ruran 481]

You're right about the design itself, but you're missing the real point. =P We're mainly complaining about the changes done to Cloud as a whole, and how the new design appears to reflect those (poor) changes.  If you didn't know much about Cloud and the shifts he's gone through, you'd be in the right, but we're speaking for far more than design and anatomy.

 

Ah, I see~

I've only gotten about half way through FFVII so I don't have much input at the moment. Ignore me!

[Peanut 26]

KH just helps lock in the stereotype that all Cloud is good for is angst. KH didn't start with that view--the fans did. Yeah, Cloud was more depressed in Advent Children. But at the end of VII, he actually had hope. It's frustrating the direction that they took his character. Now nobody shows anything but "emo Cloud." 

[ReverofE 698]

KH just helps lock in the stereotype that all Cloud is good for is angst. KH didn't start with that view--the fans did. Yeah, Cloud was more depressed in Advent Children. But at the end of VII, he actually had hope. It's frustrating the direction that they took his character. Now nobody shows anything but "emo Cloud." 

That's what I am saying Kingdom Hearts could have stopped the the stereotype. I never said it started it just contribute.

Kingdom Hearts had nothing to do with Cloud being depressed after the end of VII, I mean look, his best friend saved him from a prison(more or less), and got killed because he was trying to protect him, and the worst part is that Cloud couldn't have done anything to save him due to he was too weak and in a coma. Aerith literally died right in front of Cloud, and im pretty sure he's blaming himself even now for not keeping his guard up and blocking Sephiroth's sword.

 

I mean, when you really think about it, it wasn't really Cloud's fault that either of them died. I mean, Cloud couldn't help Zack due to Hojo poisoning him with Mako and how was he supposed to know that Sephiroth would come out of nowhere(especially FROM THE CEILING!!!!) and stab Aerith. But of course, anyone would feel guilty about Zack and Aerith's deaths if they were in Cloud's position even if it wasn't their fault.

Then why does Cloud still act so depressed in Kingdom Hearts? Nomura could have stopped that but he didn't.

[Reyn 1,755]

That's what I am saying Kingdom Hearts could have stopped the the stereotype. I never said it started it just contribute.

Then why does Cloud still act so depressed in Kingdom Hearts? Nomura could have stopped that but he didn't.

Well, we don't know, as the Cloud in KH is different from the Real Cloud from Final Fantasy, as they take place in different universes.

 

So, who knows?

[AaySquare 445]

What have they done to him?!!