KHBbS Ugh, Birth by Sleep is the worst of them all

[Rob 5,571]

I never thought I'd see the day when a fellow Rob would dislike BBS. Disappoint.

[Firaga 5,947]

Huh. Reminds me of when I rant.

[JustRob 20]

Well I have to say I like Ventus' story a lot more then Terra's. The Maleficent boss fight was really cool.

[Ruran 481]

Well I have to say I like Ventus' story a lot more then Terra's. The Maleficent boss fight was really cool.

 

Sounds like you jumped the gun way too early with the ranting lol. Well seeing as how BbS isn't exactly one of my top games either (in terms of story and characters) I'm not as "hurt" or "shocked" as some people but it'd be interesting to see what you're opinion is after you finish the whole game. 

[Shera Wizard 2,736]

I could write an essay opposing this and telling BBS was great but I'm going to tell all of that in four words:

 

Terra. isn't. a. Riku. Clone.

[Dave 5,715]

I could write an essay opposing this and telling BBS was great but I'm going to tell all of that in four words:

 

Terra. isn't. a. Riku. Clone.

 

That's actually very true. Riku was a well developed character with a story arc that made logical sense in regards to his personality and character. When Riku starts to dabble in the dark arts, we see that it makes perfect sense for his character to do so, events driving him to such an end. What's more, it happens gradually over a long period of time, so the audience gets to see how he falls and understand his position in the story, rather than have him do a sudden heel-turn out of the blue. The part that I love the most, though, is that Riku always believes he is perfectly justified in everything that he does, and there's always a method to his madness: he thinks that Sora has stopped caring about him, so he stops caring about Sora; He wants to protect Kairi, so he tries to become stronger in every way he can. Yet the further he goes, the more and more morally questionable his decisions become, so even though we understand him, we can see that he's going down the wrong path. The whole idea of Darkness being this empowering but unseen gnawing force is embodied in Riku, and I love that theme in the first game: everyone who tries to use Darkness for their own ends fails to notice that its corrupting them until its too late.

 

And Terra is definitely not a clone of that.

 

 

It still counts as focusing on the positive.

[Shard the Gentleman 2,891]

Sora wields a keyblade on his own and dual wields because of Ven. Nomura himself stated Sora was always destined to wield and gets nothing from Ven except for the second keyblade... This is why Sora still wields after becoming a walking heart in the end of Kh1 when Roxas  was formed and had Ven's heart inside him . He wielded that way all the way till they were re-merged in KH2.

 

I realize that its probably just because they didn't think about it at the time, but is there anything Story wise that says why Sora couldn't dual wield in the first game?

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I realize that its probably just because they didn't think about it at the time, but is there anything Story wise that says why Sora couldn't dual wield in the first game?

One , it wasn't thought of yet in the first game. Secondly, Ven's heart was sleeping anyways till the shock and hurt Roxas felt when Xion died 'awakened' the ability to use Ven's keyblade.. This was confirmed by Nomura when discussing why Roxas was able to dual wield only after Xion died . Because of this people thought he was wielding Xion's but hers was fake and Nomura basically explained that it was actually Ven's keyblade and why.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Flaming Lea

[Shard the Gentleman 2,891]

One , it wasn't thought of yet in the first game. Secondly, Ven's heart was sleeping anyways till the shock and hurt Roxas felt when Xion died 'awakened' the ability to use Ven's keyblade.. This was confirmed by Nomura when discussing why Roxas was able to dual wield only after Xion died . Because of this people thought he was wielding Xion's but hers was fake and Nomura basically explained that it was actually Ven's keyblade and why.

Alrighty. So, when they go to wake up Ventus, that means Sora will not be able to Dual Wield again?

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Alrighty. So, when they go to wake up Ventus, that means Sora will not be able to Dual Wield again?

 

By the conditions Nomura has laid out about what's needed for this ability, yes he should lose his dual wielding ability after Ven is revived.

[Shard the Gentleman 2,891]

By the conditions Nomura has laid out about what's needed for this ability, yes he should lose his dual wielding ability after Ven is revived.

You should be a moderator.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

You should be a moderator.

 

 

LOL ! Thx

[Dracozombie 4,554]

That's actually very true. Riku was a well developed character with a story arc that made logical sense in regards to his personality and character. When Riku starts to dabble in the dark arts, we see that it makes perfect sense for his character to do so, events driving him to such an end. What's more, it happens gradually over a long period of time, so the audience gets to see how he falls and understand his position in the story, rather than have him do a sudden heel-turn out of the blue. The part that I love the most, though, is that Riku always believes he is perfectly justified in everything that he does, and there's always a method to his madness: he thinks that Sora has stopped caring about him, so he stops caring about Sora; He wants to protect Kairi, so he tries to become stronger in every way he can. Yet the further he goes, the more and more morally questionable his decisions become, so even though we understand him, we can see that he's going down the wrong path. The whole idea of Darkness being this empowering but unseen gnawing force is embodied in Riku, and I love that theme in the first game: everyone who tries to use Darkness for their own ends fails to notice that its corrupting them until its too late.

 

And Terra is definitely not a clone of that.

 

 

It still counts as focusing on the positive.

 

Indeed.  Unlike Riku, Terra knew there was a problem with the darkness, but unlike Riku, he didn't exactly suffer its negative effects.  Terra fights an internal battle with his darkness but his story is mostly driven by external factors, like Obviously Evil (to players, not to him) characters taking advantage of him.  The only time his darkness screwed him over was when Maleficent influenced his heart to steal Aurora's, and when MX managed to overtake his body because the darkness he embraced weakened it.  So yeah, Terra isn't a Riku clone.  The only thing he really learns is Darkness Is Bad, which is a theme BBS set up to begin with because I guess they forgot Riku could use his for good.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Indeed.  Unlike Riku, Terra knew there was a problem with the darkness, but unlike Riku, he didn't exactly suffer its negative effects.  Terra fights an internal battle with his darkness but his story is mostly driven by external factors, like Obviously Evil (to players, not to him) characters taking advantage of him.  The only time his darkness screwed him over was when Maleficent influenced his heart to steal Aurora's, and when MX managed to overtake his body because the darkness he embraced weakened it.  So yeah, Terra isn't a Riku clone.  The only thing he really learns is Darkness Is Bad, which is a theme BBS set up to begin with because I guess they forgot Riku could use his for good.

 

 

But he didn't steal Aurora's heart . He was only tricked into thinking he did . It was MX and Maleficent who did as part of their plan . Nomura even stated that Terra doesn't even possess the ability to even do so even if he wanted to.

[Dracozombie 4,554]

But he didn't steal Aurora's heart . He was only tricked into thinking he did . It was MX and Maleficent who did as part of their plan . Nomura even stated that Terra doesn't even possess the ability to even do so even if he wanted to.

 

Whoops, forgot about that.  But that just proves my point even further; Terra spends his story grappling with the darkness, but what does the darkness actually do to him or harm other people until the very end?  His story is one big internal battle that doesn't actually do anything to anyone, including himself until the end.  The only thing he and Riku have in common is doing what they must for their friends, keyblades, and the presence of darkness in their hearts.  However, Riku's darkness actually does stuff to him and others.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Whoops, forgot about that.  But that just proves my point even further; Terra spends his story grappling with the darkness, but what does the darkness actually do to him or harm other people until the very end?  His story is one big internal battle that doesn't actually do anything to anyone, including himself until the end.  The only thing he and Riku have in common is doing what they must for their friends, keyblades, and the presence of darkness in their hearts.  However, Riku's darkness actually does stuff to him and others.

 

I'm not disputing your point. Just had to point out he didn't steal her heart.

[JustRob 20]

 

Whoops, forgot about that. But that just proves my point even further; Terra spends his story grappling with the darkness, but what does the darkness actually do to him or harm other people until the very end? His story is one big internal battle that doesn't actually do anything to anyone, including himself until the end. The only thing he and Riku have in common is doing what they must for their friends, keyblades, and the presence of darkness in their hearts. However, Riku's darkness actually does stuff to him and others.

Well obviously the darkness in Terra's heart was strong enough for Xehanort to take a personal interest and focus on him. What Terra and Riku have in common is that they are quick to believe the words of people with evil intentions, like Xehanort, Hades, or Maleficent. Also both of them lost their body to darkness in the end, and ultimately they both succumbed to darkness.The only difference I can see is that Riku eventually takes control back.Holy firetruck, I thought that racing minigame was annoying. But this ice-cream Guitar Hero knockoff tops it all. It makes me want to murder little children. What the firetruck do I have to do to not score BAD? I don't need this game to tell me my timing sucks, I know that already.

 

Edit: Wow passed after fifty tries or so. Apparently when you do good, you still do bad because you're game over. I can't even imagine how horrible this must be for people who are tone-deaf.

Edited February 10, 2013 by JustRob

[TheOriginalBob 110]

Well obviously the darkness in Terra's heart was strong enough for Xehanort to take a personal interest and focus on him. What Terra and Riku have in common is that they are quick to believe the words of people with evil intentions, like Xehanort, Hades, or Maleficent. Also both of them lost their body to darkness in the end, and ultimately they both succumbed to darkness.The only difference I can see is that Riku eventually takes control back.Holy firetruck, I thought that racing minigame was annoying. But this ice-cream Guitar Hero knockoff tops it all. It makes me want to murder little children. What the firetruck do I have to do to not score BAD? I don't need this game to tell me my timing sucks, I know that already.

 

Edit: Wow passed after fifty tries or so. Apparently when you do good, you still do bad because you're game over. I can't even imagine how horrible this must be for people who are tone-deaf.

 

Then go by the visual cues! I personally loved that mini-game.

[KHlover15 12]

I'm actually really really shocked to here this. I have quit a few friends who love kingdom hearts and they all say that BBS is probably the best installment of the game. I agree, I mean this is the game where you actually find out the most about the kingdom hearts franchise. And the characters are so awesome! And vary emotional part of KH. Aqua, Terra, and Ventus show the strength of friendship. Aqua went to great lengths to prtect her friends. Now that I think of it so did Terra and Ventus. 

[Xaldin III 80]

Allow me to offer an alternative handheld game.

 

 

I'm sure you'll like this combat system much better.

 

 

Always remember: It could be worse.

 

That feel when you love that game.

[Honjx 3]

This one was my fav...have you played chain of memories, They are suppose to be the same as Sora, Riku, Kairi because if you notice they formed a bond with each one. The reason Ven is a Roxas clone is because (spoiler) Ven fuses with Sora in the end and when Sora releases his heart in the first one to save Kairi, Roses took the form of Ven instead of Sora, Axel looks like Lea, Saix looks like Isa, Xaldin looks like Dilan, Vexen looks line Even, why didn't Roxas look like Sora...did you think of that.

 

Your opinion...It's different from mine. I automatically hate you now. No way will I respect your opinion, just no way!

hating someone because they dont share the same opinion is dumb, you will end up being alone cause no one shares the same opinion on everything. Edited February 25, 2013 by Mystics Apprentice

[Weiss 8,279]

hating someone because they dont share the same opinion is dumb, you will end up being alone cause no one shares the same opinion on everything.

Namikaze was joking and representing how some people actually are like that. 

[Honjx 3]

Allow me to offer an alternative handheld game.

 

 

I'm sure you'll like this combat system much better.

 

 

Always remember: It could be worse.

 

you beat me to the punch line...lol

Namikaze was joking and representing how some people actually are like that.

ah okay...sorry Namikaze

Most of your complaints can be said about most of the hand held KH games. But you're pointing the finger at the least offender. Coded offered pretty much nothing new, reused same characters/worlds and told an irrelevant story. BBS may use the same formula as a tale of 3 people traveling across various Disney worlds, but offered so much more than the others. This isn't KH III here. Are you seriously saying Coded stands out more than BBS?

I didnt even take the effort in playing coded

I pity you for how many times you've had to tell people this, pretty much word for word..... myself, admittedly, included!

Sora can use a keyblade because Ven fused with him, (simular to Ichigo and Rukia in Bleach) he can dual wield because of the Fairies (you loose Goofy), Roxas second keyblade is Xions

Well I have to say I like Ventus' story a lot more then Terra's. The Maleficent boss fight was really cool.

Maleficent fight with Aqua's my fav Edited February 25, 2013 by Mystics Apprentice

[Namikaze 654]

hating someone because they dont share the same opinion is dumb, you will end up being alone cause no one shares the same opinion on everything.

 

Yup. Alone I shall be

Edited February 25, 2013 by Namikaze

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

Sora can use a keyblade because Ven fused with him, (simular to Ichigo and Rukia in Bleach) he can dual wield because of the Fairies (you loose Goofy), Roxas second keyblade is Xions

 

 

Sora's heart isnt fused with Ven .His heart gave Ven's heart refuge in his so he could heal. Theres a difference. He wields his very own keyblade and dual wields bc of Ven . .Roxas dual wields bc he uses Sora's keyblade and Ven's---- Vens heart was in him and when Xion died the emotions helped awaken Ven's hearts keyblade. Xion's keyblade was FAKE . This is canon fact. The faeries clothes only helped Sora use his inner potential . All of this I just stated is canon fact confirmed by Nomura. Read the interviews . They are all available on this site.

 

 

Q1: Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?*

 

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart. As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked. And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

This doesn't get any clearer then this. Roxas who is literally Sora's body was affected by Ventus's heart. 

Since the heart shapes the vessel Sora's body was molded to look like Ventus as his heart remained in Sora's body. Had Ven's heart not been present Roxas would have looked like Sora not Ven.

 

 

*Q2: Why did Roxas faint in Castle Oblivion on Day 297?*

 

A: Because he had gotten to close to both Sora and Ventus, his “real self”.Before Day 297 in Days Sora had been to Castle Oblivion, as well as the fact that Ventus is asleep somewhere in the Room of Awakening. Both Sora and Ventus can be called Roxas’ “real selves”, and when he felt their presence it made him faint.

 

This further emulates the point about the location of Ven's heart. Roxas's fainted because Ven's heart was so close to his body, and Roxas(Sora's Body) was so close to his heart. Had Ven's heart not been within Roxas he woud not be included in Roxas's true selves.

 

 

*Q3 is basically the same question as 1 confirming Roxas has Ven's heart*

 

*Q4: Why can Roxas dual-wield?*

 

A: Because he can use both Sora’s and Ventus’ keyblades. Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once, Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield. 

 

Again if Roxas did not have Ven's heart he would have no means to access Ven's keyblade.

 

 

Nomura: Well, it isn’t that Roxas has physically inherited Xion’s keyblade, but more that Xion has awakened it within Roxas. In the KH series there are a lot of complex reasons why someone can use a keyblade, but basically you need a “heart” to be able to wield one. So strictly speaking, they are being influenced by Sora.

 

Namine tells Riku that in order for Sora's memories to be restored, both Sora's Nobody and Xion must no longer exist. So he takes it on himself to defeat them, but when he and Roxas fought, was that the first time he had realized that Roxas was that Nobody?

 

Nomura: Riku only realizes it when Roxas takes off his hood and he can see his face, and he responds to his call. Until then he only half believed. When he first met Xion, he didn't think that she was Sora or Kairi's Nobody, and it was the same with Roxas. When he first saw Roxas, he had no proof of who he was. So that's why he lost to Roxas, he was surprised at him using a real keyblade rather than an imitation like Xion's, and he called out to him. Part of Riku didn't really want to believe that his best friend really had a Nobody.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Flaming Lea