Nomura has too Much Control Over Kingdom Hearts

[hatok 6,413]

Kingdom Hearts is stupid

From the start, it has been unashamedly silly. That's part of the appeal for some people.

But lately we've been getting into some truly ridiculous stuff, and not in terms of the context of the universe. Kingdom Hearts has become popular, As such, Nomura has more and more power over what happens in the story, after all, KH flourished under his design, so more of what he did can only be a good thing, right?

But it's really not. |From the constant revival of popular caharacters, the overcomplciation of eveyr plot point, to the explanation of every detail of the game's universe, Nomura simply has too much power.

Anyone here familiar with Bionicle? If you are, this analogy should help things along, though if you're not it should still make sense.

Bionicle started off as a LEGO tie in with a slightly more developed story. It had a comic series penned by a fellow named Greg Farshtey. Bionicle neded up being very successful, lasting ten years, sustained by its consistent plot. But as the success went on, Greg was given more and more free reign over where the story went. For those that don't know, the story started off with six amnesiac guardians awakening on an idyllic island and protecting its villagers from wild creatures sent by a guy called Makuta, who has said to be the jealous brother of the resident god of the island, Mata-Nui.

By the end of the series, it was revealed that the island that was being protected was in fact an elaborate camouflage for use by a gigantic robot, the villagers of the island were essentially unwitting workers cast out of the robot's brain, all as an elaborate plan by Makuta, who was not in fact Mata-nui's brother, nor named Makuta for that matter, but rather was part of a species of creatures named Makuta collectively. Makuta's plan was to hijeck said robot from Mata-nui, which he did by having a guy wear a mask and sacrifice himself to revive him, but he slipped in at the last moment and take over. And there's time travel involved and... well...

Sound familiar? I've just recently realized that these stories are remarkably similar. And that doesn't bode well. Already we are getting bland over-explanations of previous mystical and rare things (in KH, keyblades were made out to be rare, mystical, and beyond comprehension, in DDD it's revealed that keyblades are man-made, used regularly, can be given to anybody, and are just plain not that special. Similarly, in Bionicle, the guaridians, called Toa, are original shown to be the only six of their kind, and possessing immense power. Later on, it is revealed that Toa are a dime a dozen, and basically function as white blood cells for the giant robot, and that they don't really matter, and that anybody can become one)

Basically, when a writer gets to do whatever they want without limitation, things don't usually end up good. I'm very worried about KH introducing time travel as a plot point completely excluded from gameplay, the multiverse can't be far behind.

[AROD666 175]

the story is ok for me its a little corny at times but i still enjoy it, and when did they said the keyblades were man made?

[Sigrun 1,064]

Kingdom Hearts is stupid

From the start, it has been unashamedly silly. That's part of the appeal for some people.

But lately we've been getting into some truly ridiculous stuff, and not in terms of the context of the universe. Kingdom Hearts has become popular, As such, Nomura has more and more power over what happens in the story, after all, KH flourished under his design, so more of what he did can only be a good thing, right?

But it's really not. |From the constant revival of popular caharacters, the overcomplciation of eveyr plot point, to the explanation of every detail of the game's universe, Nomura simply has too much power.

Anyone here familiar with Bionicle? If you are, this analogy should help things along, though if you're not it should still make sense.

Bionicle started off as a LEGO tie in with a slightly more developed story. It had a comic series penned by a fellow named Greg Farshtey. Bionicle neded up being very successful, lasting ten years, sustained by its consistent plot. But as the success went on, Greg was given more and more free reign over where the story went. For those that don't know, the story started off with six amnesiac guardians awakening on an idyllic island and protecting its villagers from wild creatures sent by a guy called Makuta, who has said to be the jealous brother of the resident god of the island, Mata-Nui.

By the end of the series, it was revealed that the island that was being protected was in fact an elaborate camouflage for use by a gigantic robot, the villagers of the island were essentially unwitting workers cast out of the robot's brain, all as an elaborate plan by Makuta, who was not in fact Mata-nui's brother, nor named Makuta for that matter, but rather was part of a species of creatures named Makuta collectively. Makuta's plan was to hijeck said robot from Mata-nui, which he did by having a guy wear a mask and sacrifice himself to revive him, but he slipped in at the last moment and take over. And there's time travel involved and... well...

Sound familiar? I've just recently realized that these stories are remarkably similar. And that doesn't bode well. Already we are getting bland over-explanations of previous mystical and rare things (in KH, keyblades were made out to be rare, mystical, and beyond comprehension, in DDD it's revealed that keyblades are man-made, used regularly, can be given to anybody, and are just plain not that special. Similarly, in Bionicle, the guaridians, called Toa, are original shown to be the only six of their kind, and possessing immense power. Later on, it is revealed that Toa are a dime a dozen, and basically function as white blood cells for the giant robot, and that they don't really matter, and that anybody can become one)

Basically, when a writer gets to do whatever they want without limitation, things don't usually end up good. I'm very worried about KH introducing time travel as a plot point completely excluded from gameplay, the multiverse can't be far behind.

 

 

 

OP you do have a point. I knew they were going to do time travel before kh2 simply because at that point I noticed things were starting to be over explained. at the time I looked at back at KH1 and you know "Sora being the ONLY chosen one with a keyblade." then in kh2 kairi simply gets keyblade. (Inherited by aqua but originally) the Keyblade wasn't suppose to be inherited, it had to choose you.

 

And the Multiverse, Most Likely as a Writer it is a must have cliche along with time travel in a series but regardless we will be more over explanations by KH3 when kh will most likely become mainstream.

 

the you get people who weren't fans before and overnight they say that they love it, live it, and breath it. http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sleep.png

Edited November 21, 2012 by Sigrun

[hatok 6,413]

the story is ok for me its a little corny at times but i still enjoy it, and when did they said the keyblades were man made?

 

That's the worst part. It's ridiculously informal. It's a random report you get in DDD about the X Blade. They just casually mention that keyblades are just man made attempts to recreate the X Blade, then people started using them to protect the light, as a side effect.

[Hei 3,233]

Have to agree with you, Kingdom Heart's is convoluted at times and some plot points don't make sense. I just hope Nomura realizes this and makes certain things more clear in he future, otherwise it's will get even more confusing. And BTW I remember Bionicle, specifically the Mask Of Light movie lol

[AROD666 175]

That's the worst part. It's ridiculously informal. It's a random report you get in DDD about the X Blade. They just casually mention that keyblades are just man made attempts to recreate the X Blade, then people started using them to protect the light, as a side effect.

 

WTF

[WakelessDream 2,283]

Kingdom Hearts is stupid

 

*Le gasp* That's a lie!~ just kidding to each their own.

[LordOfTheCastle 92]

Have to agree with you, Kingdom Heart's is convoluted at times and some plot points don't make sense. I just hope Nomura realizes this and makes certain things more clear in he future, otherwise it's will get even more confusing. And BTW I remember Bionicle, specifically the Mask Of Light movie lol

 

TAKUUUUAAA!!! TAKUA! (For the first five minutes)

 

I still have my Makuta bionicle

 

Anyway, OP is right. DDD felt like a soap opera to me, more than anything else. It's such a shame, too, because the KH universe was so interesting to me before things got so ridiculous x_x

[AROD666 175]

Kingdom Hearts is stupid

From the start, it has been unashamedly silly. That's part of the appeal for some people.

But lately we've been getting into some truly ridiculous stuff, and not in terms of the context of the universe. Kingdom Hearts has become popular, As such, Nomura has more and more power over what happens in the story, after all, KH flourished under his design, so more of what he did can only be a good thing, right?

But it's really not. |From the constant revival of popular caharacters, the overcomplciation of eveyr plot point, to the explanation of every detail of the game's universe, Nomura simply has too much power.

Anyone here familiar with Bionicle? If you are, this analogy should help things along, though if you're not it should still make sense.

Bionicle started off as a LEGO tie in with a slightly more developed story. It had a comic series penned by a fellow named Greg Farshtey. Bionicle neded up being very successful, lasting ten years, sustained by its consistent plot. But as the success went on, Greg was given more and more free reign over where the story went. For those that don't know, the story started off with six amnesiac guardians awakening on an idyllic island and protecting its villagers from wild creatures sent by a guy called Makuta, who has said to be the jealous brother of the resident god of the island, Mata-Nui.

By the end of the series, it was revealed that the island that was being protected was in fact an elaborate camouflage for use by a gigantic robot, the villagers of the island were essentially unwitting workers cast out of the robot's brain, all as an elaborate plan by Makuta, who was not in fact Mata-nui's brother, nor named Makuta for that matter, but rather was part of a species of creatures named Makuta collectively. Makuta's plan was to hijeck said robot from Mata-nui, which he did by having a guy wear a mask and sacrifice himself to revive him, but he slipped in at the last moment and take over. And there's time travel involved and... well...

Sound familiar? I've just recently realized that these stories are remarkably similar. And that doesn't bode well. Already we are getting bland over-explanations of previous mystical and rare things (in KH, keyblades were made out to be rare, mystical, and beyond comprehension, in DDD it's revealed that keyblades are man-made, used regularly, can be given to anybody, and are just plain not that special. Similarly, in Bionicle, the guaridians, called Toa, are original shown to be the only six of their kind, and possessing immense power. Later on, it is revealed that Toa are a dime a dozen, and basically function as white blood cells for the giant robot, and that they don't really matter, and that anybody can become one)

Basically, when a writer gets to do whatever they want without limitation, things don't usually end up good. I'm very worried about KH introducing time travel as a plot point completely excluded from gameplay, the multiverse can't be far behind.

 

so do you think kingdom hearts needs a reboot?

[hatok 6,413]

so do you think kingdom hearts needs a reboot?

 

... no...

I would like one... but reboots kind of cheapen a story...

It sort of makes repercussions pointless if you can just restart...

[OthersiderME 614]

So... someone needs to slap some sanity into his story.

[KHLegendIII 709]

Well, I will be used to this especially the time travel don't ask why I'm just used to it.

[Sora'sMum 352]

Yeah it's all kind of become out of hand. It's getting very convoluted and like you said it's not that great when everybody gets revived so they can return in later games. It takes away from the emotion in knowing they died. All these 'spin-off' games are getting quite tiresome, in the fact they're telling short and seemingly rushed stories (i.e. coded, DDD). I personally think after birth by sleep KH3 should have been the next game, even if it took a few years. I hope Nomura does have some super plan for the series in which everything turns out fantastic for KH3, but we can only wait and see.

[Nweintraub 630]

I think KH & Bionicle are just fine.

[dusk 910]

Ahh Bionicle, one of my favorite products of all time. I still have the most of the comics in good shape and I'm still sad how the whole production destroyed with ridiculous plot.. When I played KH 3D I had lot of problems with the story all the time I was like: "Okay... I guess that makes sense... Really? Oh my lord..." and lot of stuff like that. Nomura should really think before he writes and check if he is fully sober. I'm officially scared of what KH3 will be like, why couldn't they continue with style of KH1 and 2 and not making this thing people call Awesome story.

[Master Keeper 687]

My god, Keyblades were man made from the beginning http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.png

[Col.Random 3,683]

Kingdom Hearts is stupid

From the start, it has been unashamedly silly. That's part of the appeal for some people.

But lately we've been getting into some truly ridiculous stuff, and not in terms of the context of the universe. Kingdom Hearts has become popular, As such, Nomura has more and more power over what happens in the story, after all, KH flourished under his design, so more of what he did can only be a good thing, right?

But it's really not. |From the constant revival of popular caharacters, the overcomplciation of eveyr plot point, to the explanation of every detail of the game's universe, Nomura simply has too much power.

Anyone here familiar with Bionicle? If you are, this analogy should help things along, though if you're not it should still make sense.

Bionicle started off as a LEGO tie in with a slightly more developed story. It had a comic series penned by a fellow named Greg Farshtey. Bionicle neded up being very successful, lasting ten years, sustained by its consistent plot. But as the success went on, Greg was given more and more free reign over where the story went. For those that don't know, the story started off with six amnesiac guardians awakening on an idyllic island and protecting its villagers from wild creatures sent by a guy called Makuta, who has said to be the jealous brother of the resident god of the island, Mata-Nui.

By the end of the series, it was revealed that the island that was being protected was in fact an elaborate camouflage for use by a gigantic robot, the villagers of the island were essentially unwitting workers cast out of the robot's brain, all as an elaborate plan by Makuta, who was not in fact Mata-nui's brother, nor named Makuta for that matter, but rather was part of a species of creatures named Makuta collectively. Makuta's plan was to hijeck said robot from Mata-nui, which he did by having a guy wear a mask and sacrifice himself to revive him, but he slipped in at the last moment and take over. And there's time travel involved and... well...

Sound familiar? I've just recently realized that these stories are remarkably similar. And that doesn't bode well. Already we are getting bland over-explanations of previous mystical and rare things (in KH, keyblades were made out to be rare, mystical, and beyond comprehension, in DDD it's revealed that keyblades are man-made, used regularly, can be given to anybody, and are just plain not that special. Similarly, in Bionicle, the guaridians, called Toa, are original shown to be the only six of their kind, and possessing immense power. Later on, it is revealed that Toa are a dime a dozen, and basically function as white blood cells for the giant robot, and that they don't really matter, and that anybody can become one)

Basically, when a writer gets to do whatever they want without limitation, things don't usually end up good. I'm very worried about KH introducing time travel as a plot point completely excluded from gameplay, the multiverse can't be far behind.

 

have to agree. It's irritating how keyblades went from being mystical and stuff to a free goody-bag!

They should have just stopped the keyblade thing at Sora, Mickey, Riku, Roxas and Xion.

Xehanort should not have even had the keyblade. I mean, wasn't there something about the keyblades only coming to those who are pure? I doubt grampa's very pure

http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sleep.png

[Kinode 3,056]

have to agree. It's irritating how keyblades went from being mystical and stuff to a free goody-bag!

They should have just stopped the keyblade thing at Sora, Mickey, Riku, Roxas and Xion.

Xehanort should not have even had the keyblade. I mean, wasn't there something about the keyblades only coming to those who are pure? I doubt grampa's very pure

http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sleep.png

 

Strong hearts. Sora and Riku's keyblades are Keyblades of Light, so they'll go to Strong hearts with light, and Xehanort and Vanitas' are Keyblades of Darkness.

[VanitasTheBest 196]

I can agree at some points. But I don't think the story so far is stupid. We don't know how the Time Travel thing will develop, and the Final Part of the KH Story is still unclear, so I don't think it's stupid. It's possible that everything makes sense in the end.

 

And yeah Bionicle... Such Tragedy... I collected them from the beginning because the Story of them was AWESOME. Way too awesome imo, but in the End it was completely messed up. Though I was glad that they tried to make a new beginning with the Glatorians... It was cancelled D: One of the worst days of my life

 

My god, Keyblades were man made from the beginning http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.png

 

I can't remember that

[Gambler'sApprentice 131]

I agree with your assessment, but disagree with your solution.

I really like Nomura's work,and think that he's the best choice for what we have going on in the KHverse. The problem is the story has gotten too convoluted with misunderstandings, miscommunications and plain lies.

For instance in KH I Sora is THE Keyblade Master, and it's implied there is only one Keyblade (or two, right at the end)

At this point we know Sora is not a Keyblade Master, there are many of them, wielded by many individuals, Sora wields a special Keyblade, nut so do Xion and Roxas, and Ven can too. Also Keyblades are actually copies of the X-Blade, which has its own murky history.

The series doesn't need Nomura to stop controlling it, it needs a reboot. Like comics, KH didn't have enough of its plain laid out, The Vanitas-Sora connection only happened because a voice actor was tired of sounding nice! So now as they keep expanding they have to try and either ignore or handwave the contradictions.

It's not that I object to some level of miscommunication, Leon and co. thinking there's only one Keyblade in KH I is fine, they don't know much about it. But when Hades encounters the Keyblade three times and never remembers what it can do, the chronology needs to be cleaned up.

[MyDixieRect 2,061]

While I do think KH1 is by far the best in the series I don't mind what KH has become. Keyblades were always just a weapon to me, a cool weapon, but a weapon. I couldn't care less if they were man made, mystical or extracted from dog crap. The revival of key characters and time travel just makes me anticipate a grand final battle and a bringing of better closure to all since it ties all the games together and some characters really weren't given proper send-offs. I think Nomura's doing a great job.

 

Yeah, KH is silly perhaps even stupid but the best games are e.g.

 

Mario: A fat plumber who collects stars to defeat a dinosaur-tortoise hybrid for a woman way out of his league. Oh, and he occasionly goes Go-Karting. Who ever heard of anything so silly?

 

Sonic: A talking blue hedgehog...that says it all.

 

Final Fantasy: Ragtag bunch of misfits with clothing you wouldn't be caught dead in going against the odds and saving the world. Every single game from VI-XIII has the same plot "Rebel against more poweful force and make new friends" (Except for XII maybe, haven't played it). Then the earlier FFs and their crystal obsession...

 

GTA:Glorification of everything you wish you could do and get away with but can't.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Winner's Proof

[Caity 3,946]

I enjoy the story, and welcome the revival of characters (based on dead nobody + dead heartless = somebody), however with some cases it was simply -the nobody's dead, lets just trust their heartless was killed somewhere along the line-, personally i'd like a proper boss battle with a heartless that's evidently part of said nobody.

 

Although I love Nomura's imagination and story-plots, the fact he added time travel to advance the plot just was lazy writing to me...

We need some new characters.

 

(I've been distracted through this listening to an argument, I will return when I gather my thoughts)

[Roxas Seeking Light 93]

I think the story is amazing to be honest. I've thought that ever since it came out when I was 9, but even as an adult, I still learn morals that are appropriate to adults from the story.

[Ruran 481]

This is why I have ambivalent feeling towards the next "saga" because Nomura has admitted himself that KH's story had gotten a little over complicated since KH2, but it looks like it suffered from a snow ball effect where he started adding concepts and had to keep going for the sake of consistency. KH presented itself as having a "deep and complex" story and now that's what many fans expect and as shown with Re:Coded a simpler story doesn't bode well.

 

With a new saga there's a chance to start a story over from scratch, have things planned out better, and maybe even have less games because it wouldn't need the smaller handhelds for support if it's planned better, and over all be more condensed and consistant. At the same time, personally, I'm getting tired of keeping up with the series and I'm mostly sticking around to finish what I started. Come KH3 plan to jump ship. I might keep up with the next saga from a casual standpoint but at this point in time I have no interest.

[Dracozombie 4,554]

Just like Winner's Proof says, plenty of things are ridiculous if you examine them deep enough and with a certain mindset. I don't mind how convoluted the plot is since things add up in the end, even if more questions are raised in the process, but that's part of the reason I keep up with the series (the other is how I haven't been with it for 10+ years like most everyone here so it hasn't had the time to run out of its "magic"). I wanna see where things lead, I wanna know. Also like Winner's Proof said, the keyblade has always just been a cool weapon to me; I'm glad there's finally some explanation on where they come from. And that's where you and I differ, hatok, because in my book, "mysticism" is code for "I'm too lazy to think of the reason so I'll just keep it a mystery." I happen to enjoy the concept of the man-made keyblade. I like it when concepts are explained and I like knowing how things work. And if you don't like the reasons they give, then that's really your problem, isn't it? Stop spending money on their games, stop following the story, and stop wasting your time.

 

But I do agree KH would've fared much better had it been better planned out. I'm a meticulous planner when it comes to my stories and the KH Method of storytelling is a big no-no for me. Had KH been told completely chronologically (I think most people are in agreement that the KH1-CoM-KH2 part was the strongest batch) and things planned out more in advance then the series would probably be much stronger. Things may add up but it was messily put together. But the story is interesting enough to me to keep me wanting more, and the fact is that it's too late to go back now and correct its mistakes. Complaining about it won't do anything because we're too far in, which is why I'm able to let things slide.