KH3D I Need Some More Clarity.

[HikariYami 354]

Okay, how can I put this. I really don't know what I am trying to ask so I will write down my throw up of thoughts here.

 

You know at the end of DDD when MX said that KH naturally chooses the lights and darkness and all that jazz.

People are chosen for the keyblade right. Like in BBS when Aqua and Terra said they felt the light in Sora and Riku.

I don't know if this has anything to do with what I am about to ask.

Even if you perform the ceremony, the keyblade has to choose you. Such in the case of Sora it sorta came to him and Roxas. Lea obtained his keyblade but then he said it would not materialize.

So does the light choose you or the keyblade? Both?

Even with the 7 lights. They are naturally chosen protectors, right?

Therefore, the people we have seen chosen for the keyblade are:

Mickey

Riku

Sora

Aqua

Ventus

Terra

Lea

Eraqus

Yen Sid

Roxas- Iffy. He could dual wield because of Ventus but he had Sora's body not heart. I guess by defauelt.

Xehanort

And the countless others that perished in the Keyblade war.

So could it be that the seven lights are the natrually chosen keyblade wielders?

P.S. I did not put Kairi because she was not necessarily chosen and can't even summon her own keyblade YET.

[Tails 6,690]

Okay, how can I put this. I really don't know what I am trying to ask so I will write down my throw up of thoughts here.

 

You know at the end of DDD when MX said that KH naturally chooses the lights and darkness and all that jazz.

People are chosen for the keyblade right. Like in BBS when Aqua and Terra said they felt the light in Sora and Riku.

I don't know if this has anything to do with what I am about to ask.

Even if you perform the ceremony, the keyblade has to choose you. Such in the case of Sora it sorta came to him and Roxas. Lea obtained his keyblade but then he said it would not materialize.

So does the light choose you or the keyblade? Both?

Even with the 7 lights. They are naturally chosen protectors, right?

Therefore, the people we have seen chosen for the keyblade are:

Mickey

Riku

Sora

Aqua

Ventus

Terra

Lea

Eraqus

Yen Sid

Roxas- Iffy. He could dual wield because of Ventus but he had Sora's body not heart. I guess by defauelt.

Xehanort

And the countless others that perished in the Keyblade war.

So could it be that the seven lights are the natrually chosen keyblade wielders?

P.S. I did not put Kairi because she was not necessarily chosen and can't even summon her own keyblade YET.

 

The keybalde only chooses its weilder if your heart is strong enough and qualifies to weild a keyblade Edited November 18, 2012 by Tails

[HikariYami 354]

The keybalde only chooses its weilder if your heart is strong enough and qualifies to weild a keyblade

 

Okay, just making sure.

[WakelessDream 2,278]

Aqua also said she could feel the light in Kairi too, but that might be due to her princess of heart status lol.

You could say that Kairi was accidentally chosen lol, she touched Aqua's keyblade which triggered an accidental inheritance ceremony. But anyways I'm sure most of us are aware of that by now.

 

But it's basically what Tails said, the keyblade generally chooses those with a strong heart, whether it be of darkness or light. The inheritance ceremony doesn't guarantee you one, but I guess it "ups your chances" of getting one.

Edited November 18, 2012 by WakelessDream

[AntonioKHT 449]

It's basically, the Keyblade chooses you. The names you said are truly the chosen wielders. Roxas could wield because he came from Sora, so that makes him worthy, and the Keyblade chooses him also, like automatically.

The ceremony is done to present the Keyblade with a possible next wielder. (Example) That does not make Riku better than Sora, but Riku was "introduced" to the Keyblade, and he became a candidate, and since he had a strong heart, he became a wielder. Sora would have never become a wielder if he hadn't somehow had some connection with the Keyblade, that appeared to him when he was next to Riku. It chose Sora on that moment of need...

My post IS SUPER CONFUSING, but that's my explanation...

[khoathkeeper13 429]

Okay, how can I put this. I really don't know what I am trying to ask so I will write down my throw up of thoughts here.

 

You know at the end of DDD when MX said that KH naturally chooses the lights and darkness and all that jazz.

People are chosen for the keyblade right. Like in BBS when Aqua and Terra said they felt the light in Sora and Riku.

I don't know if this has anything to do with what I am about to ask.

Even if you perform the ceremony, the keyblade has to choose you. Such in the case of Sora it sorta came to him and Roxas. Lea obtained his keyblade but then he said it would not materialize.

To be able to wield a Keyblade you must have touched a Keyblade without it leaving your hand, which is what the inheritance ceremony is for. Sora was a special case because he was never chosen to inherit the Keyblade, but he earned it by the end of KH1 with all that "My friends are my power!" stuff. Roxas is a weirder explanation. Lea had speed training with the Keyblade but just wasn't up to "wielder" status or something, guessing it takes time after the ceremony since we didn't see a little Riku running around with a Keyblade. lol

 

So does the light choose you or the keyblade? Both?

The Keyblade chooses you. As long as someone has a strong heart, whether it be filled with light or darkness, they can wield a Keyblade.

Roxas- Iffy. He could dual wield because of Ventus but he had Sora's body not heart. I guess by defauelt.

 

Kinda starting to think he got his first Keyblade from Ven instead of Sora. You can't wield a Keyblade without a heart, but he had Ven's = one Keyblade. Then his other Keyblade awoke after his heart had been growing throughout Days.

P.S. I did not put Kairi because she was not necessarily chosen and can't even summon her own keyblade YET.

 

We haven't seen her summon it yet, but she is a wielder. She just needs more EXP to become a full fledged one. The secret ending shows she'll be the seventh light. Edited November 18, 2012 by khoathkeeper13

[Ajexmi 446]

I disagree with many of the above theories (not so much khoathkeeper13 though). They are no less valid than my own, but here is what I see as more accurate:

 

There are links to all of the names listed in terms of heritage. After Terra bequeathed his blade to Riku, Aqua responded by giving Sora that task of protecting and guiding Riku (you may or may not believe that may have been her bequeathing to Sora - I personally think it is irrelevant either way). So when Riku could not accept the Kingdom Key due to the darkness in his heart, it went to Sora - being that his duty was to guide and protect the true chosen one so that he may one day wield a keyblade. This came true when he summoned the Way To Dawn blade in COM and chose to fight the darkness and protect the light.

 

Bequathing is like leaving the keyblade as inheritance - I'm sure at some point in the series that wielders can sense the 'mark' of a potential wielder or something - and is set in stone as long as the blade can connect with the wielder's heart (as the soul eater could when Riku was overcome by darkness AKA Ansem, but the Kingdom Key (light) couldn't)

 

Yen Sid evidently selected to bequeath his blade to Mickey and took him on as an apprentice to teach him how to wield a keyblade. The same is true of Lea - however I have no clue who taught him.... I can't remember if it's mentioned or not. But the point is, yes if you have a strong heart a wielder can teach you to wield a keyblade or bequeath you with the ability to. It isn't left to chance. Also, Eraqus mentored Terra and Aqua and that is how they attained their blades, whereas Xehanort himself mentored Ventus.

 

One last thing, in regard to Roxas.

it is VERY likely that, due to Sora harbouring both Ven's and Kairi's heart as well as his own when he stabbed himself in KHI (Hollow Bastion), Roxas was born with a heart, or formed one within 7 days of being a Nobody (due to the time it took for the hearts to merge to create a new one). You don't see Roxas wield before Day 7 in 358/2, do you? and he was in 'a zombie like state'. This said, he possesses a heart born of two original hearts of Keyblade Wielders (remember Riku had succumbed by this point and Sora was a true wielder) - being Ventus and Sora. This gives him not only the ability to wield, but to dual wield.

 

 

Opinions?

Edited November 19, 2012 by Ajexmi

[HikariYami 354]

We haven't seen her summon it yet, but she is a wielder. She just needs more EXP to become a full fledged one. The secret ending shows she'll be the seventh light.

 

I would not be so sure as to say she will be the 7th light.

Yen Sid is not Kingdom Hearts. He wanted her to train but she is not guaranteed to be a light. Only Kingdom Hearts can determine that.

 

 

One last thing, in regard to Roxas.

it is VERY likely that, due to Sora harbouring both Ven's and Kairi's heart as well as his own when he stabbed himself in KHI (Hollow Bastion), Roxas was born with a heart, or formed one within 7 days of being a Nobody (due to the time it took for the hearts to merge to create a new one). You don't see Roxas wield before Day 7 in 358/2, do you? and he was in 'a zombie like state'. This said, he possesses a heart born of two original hearts of Keyblade Wielders (remember Riku had succumbed by this point and Sora was a true wielder) - being Ventus and Sora. This gives him not only the ability to wield, but to dual wield.

 

Opinions?

 

But, He had Ventus's heart and grew his own. He had Sora's body not his heart. If that is true, when he grew his own heart and via Ventus's heart, he could dual wield. In Days he could dual wield after that big emotion time after Xion died. That is when his heart awakened.

Just a though.

[Ajexmi 446]

I would not be so sure as to say she will be the 7th light.

Yen Sid is not Kingdom Hearts. He wanted her to train but she is not guaranteed to be a light. Only Kingdom Hearts can determine that.

 

 

But, He had Ventus's heart and grew his own. He had Sora's body not his heart. If that is true, when he grew his own heart and via Ventus's heart, he could dual wield. In Days he could dual wield after that big emotion time after Xion died. That is when his heart awakened.

Just a though.

 

Roxas was born of both Sora's and Ventus' hearts as both were freed and a portion of both created Roxas' heart (similarly to how a portion of Sora's heart completed Ventus' fractured heart at the beginning of BBS). In terms of whether he always had a heart, the portions of the original hearts merged over the first number of days after Roxas' creation, or if (in either case) he had a sleeping heart that 'awakened' after Xion's defeat is questionable.

 

However, I strongly believe that his heart wasn't sleeping, but due to her sapping his power and absorbing Sora's memories, I'd say that Xion was able to summon a keyblade after absorbing enough of Sora's memories. The reason Roxas didn't lose the ability to summon his blade in light of this is due to the portion of Ventus' heart (meaning he could dual wield until Xion took enough of Sora's memories and then after she stopped existing (i.e. was defeated). This is evidence that not only could he dual wield in his own power (not thanks to any other heart but his own) but that he was born with one, or the original merged to create one within the first 7 days of being a nobody.

[HikariYami 354]

Roxas was born of both Sora's and Ventus' hearts as both were freed and a portion of both created Roxas' heart (similarly to how a portion of Sora's heart completed Ventus' fractured heart at the beginning of BBS). In terms of whether he always had a heart, the portions of the original hearts merged over the first number of days after Roxas' creation, or if (in either case) he had a sleeping heart that 'awakened' after Xion's defeat is questionable.

 

However, I strongly believe that his heart wasn't sleeping, but due to her sapping his power and absorbing Sora's memories, I'd say that Xion was able to summon a keyblade after absorbing enough of Sora's memories. The reason Roxas didn't lose the ability to summon his blade in light of this is due to the portion of Ventus' heart (meaning he could dual wield until Xion took enough of Sora's memories and then after she stopped existing (i.e. was defeated). This is evidence that not only could he dual wield in his own power (not thanks to any other heart but his own) but that he was born with one, or the original merged to create one within the first 7 days of being a nobody.

 

So are you saying that:

Roxas heart merged with Ventus's heart like it did with Sora.

Since Xion was syphing Roxas's power but in the process grew is own heart. He could not tell because Xion was taking his power; he could not dual wield, but when she was released, he got his power back and could dual wield because of his own heart and Ventus's heart

Edited November 19, 2012 by HikariYami

[khoathkeeper13 429]

Roxas was born of both Sora's and Ventus' hearts as both were freed and a portion of both created Roxas' heart

 

Sorry I cut out your long explanation >_<

but it has been know before 3D that Roxas is Sora's body with Ven's heart.

No part of Sora's heart went to Roxas, it was completely swallowed by darkness and turn into a little Heartless. Sora's body, Roxas, however did retain Ven's sleeping heart.

In 3D it was revealed that Roxas, Axel, and Xion grew hearts while in Org. XIII. I think Roxas' grew throughout Days as Roxas went from zombie to clueless to curious. I assume by the end of Days his heart had pretty much finished growing and allows Roxas to dual wield after Xion kinda sorta merges with him and gives back that strength she sucked out of him.

And:

1 heart = one keyblade

2 hearts = two keyblades

sorry if I misunderstood anything, I don't feel like I read that very closely

 

 

Hey we finally have an explanation for that short part in KH2FM in the Sora vs Roxas fight where Sora triple-wields. Sora + Ven + Roxas' hearts http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.png

[Ajexmi 446]

So are you saying that:

Roxas heart merged with Ventus's heart like it did with Sora.

Since Xion was syphing Roxas's power but in the process grew is own heart. He could not tell because Xion was taking his power; he could not dual wield, but when she was released, he got his power back and could dual wield because of his own heart and Ventus's heart

 

Not quite... let me try again,

 

Roxas' heart never merged/merges with any other. it stands in its own right.

Roxas' heart was created when Sora stabbed himself in KHI,

Roxas' heart was created from a portion of both Sora's heart and a portion of Ventus' heart (which Sora held along with Kairi's)

As Roxas' heart was made from the blend of two hearts of Keyblade wielders, he inherited the ability to wield two blades.

 

With me so far?

 

When Sora climbed Castle Oblivion in COM, he lost memories (powerful memories).

Those memories were initially absorbed by just Roxas (he saw them in his dreams)

However, Xion started to absorb them too, thus taking from the portion of Roxas' heart that came from Sora.

These memories were mainly of Kairi, which was what made them powerful.

They also were the reason Xion looks like Kairi, but when she absorbed so many memories, came to look like Sora

As Xion took such a large part of Sora (his memories) she inherited the ability to wield,

Thus Roxas lost the ability to wield the blade he inherited from the portion of Sora's heart that made his own

HOWEVER, he could still wield as the other half of his heart came from Ventus.

Therefore, Roxas could always dual wield, just lacked the strength and/or experience

 

 

Still with me? I really hope so!

 

When Xion was defeated, her whole existence faded

This caused everyone to forget she EVER existed

This was mainly due to her personality and power came from Sora's memories

When Xion ceased to exist, the trapped memories transferred to Roxas

This returned his strength

This also restored the 'Sora portion' of his heart

As his heart was fully restored, and Xion no longer existed, he could dual wield again.

This ability was first exhibited because of his rage, sorrow and confusion about the Organisation and to find Sora

He wanted to find Sora so he could find out why everyone had to suffer for/because of him and ultimately who is was.

These emotions were truely felt due to Roxas posessing a heart.

 

Ready for one last one?

 

Roxas is only a viable candidate for KHIII's 7 lights (as suggested as both he AND ventus appear in the opening cinematics of 3D) because he possesses his own heart.

If Roxas had Ventus' heart within him, than to restore Ventus would mean that Roxas would need a new heart or could not return at all.

 

 

I hope that didn't come across as patronising! Does that help a bit?

 

Sorry I cut out your long explanation >_<

but it has been know before 3D that Roxas is Sora's body with Ven's heart.

No part of Sora's heart went to Roxas, it was completely swallowed by darkness and turn into a little Heartless. Sora's body, Roxas, however did retain Ven's sleeping heart.

In 3D it was revealed that Roxas, Axel, and Xion grew hearts while in Org. XIII. I think Roxas' grew throughout Days as Roxas went from zombie to clueless to curious. I assume by the end of Days his heart had pretty much finished growing and allows Roxas to dual wield after Xion kinda sorta merges with him and gives back that strength she sucked out of him.

And:

1 heart = one keyblade

2 hearts = two keyblades

sorry if I misunderstood anything, I don't feel like I read that very closely

 

 

Hey we finally have an explanation for that short part in KH2FM in the Sora vs Roxas fight where Sora triple-wields. Sora + Ven + Roxas' hearts

 

It is possible for two hearts to blend to make a nobody. Sora and Kairi's hearts blended to create Namine. That IS DEFINITELY confimed within the games. However, I do not recall any kind of confirmation that 'Roxas, Axel, and Xion grew hearts while in Org. XIII' nor ' it has been know before 3D that Roxas is Sora's body with Ven's heart'. These are both seemingly guesses at the formula of the heart that dwells within Roxas.

 

Whilst what I presented, admittedly, is only a theory it is strongly backed up with various evidence from across the series and hints dropped in unlucky cutcences and cinematics. I stand by it, and I can see that we share elements of our arguments (e.g. grew throughout Days, from zombie to clueless to curious). As I said before, a lot of these topics are left to mere speculation and at the root of them all is the irritating fact that although we'd love an exact answer there is no guarantee of one as it is peripheral detail that doesn't require an in depth explanation in order for the story to work fingers crossed KHIII offers some answers for us all!

Edited November 19, 2012 by Ajexmi

[HikariYami 354]

Not quite... let me try again,

 

Roxas' heart never merged/merges with any other. it stands in its own right.

Roxas' heart was created when Sora stabbed himself in KHI,

Roxas' heart was created from a portion of both Sora's heart and a portion of Ventus' heart (which Sora held along with Kairi's)

As Roxas' heart was made from the blend of two hearts of Keyblade wielders, he inherited the ability to wield two blades.

 

With me so far?

 

When Sora climbed Castle Oblivion in COM, he lost memories (powerful memories).

Those memories were initially absorbed by just Roxas (he saw them in his dreams)

However, Xion started to absorb them too, thus taking from the portion of Roxas' heart that came from Sora.

These memories were mainly of Kairi, which was what made them powerful.

They also were the reason Xion looks like Kairi, but when she absorbed so many memories, came to look like Sora

As Xion took such a large part of Sora (his memories) she inherited the ability to wield,

Thus Roxas lost the ability to wield the blade he inherited from the portion of Sora's heart that made his own

HOWEVER, he could still wield as the other half of his heart came from Ventus.

Therefore, Roxas could always dual wield, just lacked the strength and/or experience

 

 

Still with me? I really hope so!

 

When Xion was defeated, her whole existence faded

This caused everyone to forget she EVER existed

This was mainly due to her personality and power came from Sora's memories

When Xion ceased to exist, the trapped memories transferred to Roxas

This returned his strength

This also restored the 'Sora portion' of his heart

As his heart was fully restored, and Xion no longer existed, he could dual wield again.

This ability was first exhibited because of his rage, sorrow and confusion about the Organisation and to find Sora

He wanted to find Sora so he could find out why everyone had to suffer for/because of him and ultimately who is was.

These emotions were truely felt due to Roxas posessing a heart.

 

Ready for one last one?

 

Roxas is only a viable candidate for KHIII's 7 lights (as suggested as both he AND ventus appear in the opening cinematics of 3D) because he possesses his own heart.

If Roxas had Ventus' heart within him, than to restore Ventus would mean that Roxas would need a new heart or could not return at all.

 

 

I hope that didn't come across as patronising! Does that help a bit?

 

Okay I got it.

I think merging was not the right word. I meant like residing and holding but not together.

Edited November 19, 2012 by HikariYami

[Ajexmi 446]

Okay I got it.

I think merging was not the right word. I meant like residing and holding but not together.

 

I reckon merging is accurate to be honest with you. Because Roxas didn't hold two seperate hearts that count as his own and give him power, more like the two hearts (Sora's and Ventus') reproduced to create Roxas'..... you know.... like people reproduce.... but with hearts

[khoathkeeper13 429]

I still don't agree with the whole Roxas' heart is part Sora's and part Ven's part. Imma gonna just go through the list

Not quite... let me try again,

 

Roxas' heart never merged/merges with any other. it stands in its own right.

Roxas' heart was created when Sora stabbed himself in KHI, kinda agree, I still think it was a gradual process, possibly starting shortly after (maybe when Roxas and Axel started to become friends)

Roxas' heart was created from a portion of both Sora's heart and a portion of Ventus' heart (which Sora held along with Kairi's) Ven's heart is harbored within Roxas and Sora's heart was never part of Roxas (I'm standing my ground with this theory/fact)

As Roxas' heart was made from the blend of two hearts of Keyblade wielders, he inherited the ability to wield two blades. Again I don't see it as a blend, just as Ven's heart plus a newly grown one

 

With me so far?

 

When Sora climbed Castle Oblivion in COM, he lost memories (powerful memories). agreed

Those memories were initially absorbed by just Roxas (he saw them in his dreams) agreed

However, Xion started to absorb them too, thus taking from the portion of Roxas' heart that came from Sora. ...I need to play Days again so I can remind myself of specifics [insert explanation when I can make it make more sense]

These memories were mainly of Kairi, which was what made them powerful. agreed

They also were the reason Xion looks like Kairi, but when she absorbed so many memories, came to look like Sora agree (or the closest connection the observer has to Sora, ex: Xibgar sees Ven)

As Xion took such a large part of Sora (his memories) she inherited the ability to wield, Basically, she was a replica so her keyblade was fake (at some point I think she grew her own heart and it became real tho, remember she lost her ability to wield at one point)

Thus Roxas lost the ability to wield the blade he inherited from the portion of Sora's heart that made his own

HOWEVER, he could still wield as the other half of his heart came from Ventus.

Therefore, Roxas could always dual wield, just lacked the strength and/or experience

 

 

Still with me? I really hope so!

 

When Xion was defeated, her whole existence faded

This caused everyone to forget she EVER existed Yup... ;_;

This was mainly due to her personality and power came from Sora's memories agreed

When Xion ceased to exist, the trapped memories transferred to Roxas agreed

This returned his strength agreed

This also restored the 'Sora portion' of his heart still disagree

As his heart was fully restored, and Xion no longer existed, he could dual wield again. again I think this is when his heart had reached a more mature stage

This ability was first exhibited because of his rage, sorrow and confusion about the Organization and to find Sora agreed

He wanted to find Sora so he could find out why everyone had to suffer for/because of him and ultimately who is was. No, more of him (of course wanting to know who he was) but finding Xion so the three of them could eat ice cream together

These emotions were truely felt due to Roxas posessing a heart. agreed, that grew

 

Ready for one last one?

 

Roxas is only a viable candidate for KHIII's 7 lights (as suggested as both he AND ventus appear in the opening cinematics of 3D) because he possesses his own heart. agreed

If Roxas had Ventus' heart within him, than to restore Ventus would mean that Roxas would need a new heart or could not return at all. agreed, IF Roxas had not grew his own heart

 

Just my thoughtsI feel like I'm stabbing your theory and then kicking it to death >________< gomenasai

It is possible for two hearts to blend to make a nobody. Sora and Kairi's hearts blended to create Namine. That IS DEFINITELY confimed within the games. However, I do not recall any kind of confirmation that 'Roxas, Axel, and Xion grew hearts while in Org. XIII' nor ' it has been know before 3D that Roxas is Sora's body with Ven's heart'. These are both seemingly guesses at the formula of the heart that dwells within Roxas.

 

At the end of KH3D it was stated by Xemnas that many members shown signs of growing hearts and Sora (after he received Roxas' memories) yelled at them saying "Why would you lie to them and tell them that they don't have hearts!?" (something really close to that). wait... scene:

I think most theorists agree that Roxas is Sora's body plus Ven's heart. The heart is the person's identity, which gave proof to Ven's heart being inside of Roxas. Roxas is Sora's Nobody, while Sora's Heartless was his heart. The identity thing was kinda explained by Riku momentarily losing his appearance.

Namine is still a mystery. Ansem the Wise couldn't even think of any possible explanations. All we know for sure is she was created similarly to a Nobody but when Kairi's heart left Sora's body. That weird scenario gave her the power over Sora's memories and Ven being inside Sora may have influenced where she was "born." I did however hear an interesting theory about her being that protection charm Aqua placed on Kairi.

Original theory: http://forums.khinsider.com/handheld-entries/149593-roxas-namine-revisted.html (long theory is long... I need to read through this again)

[rizar14 8]

Aqua also said she could feel the light in Kairi too, but that might be due to her princess of heart status lol.

You could say that Kairi was accidentally chosen lol, she touched Aqua's keyblade which triggered an accidental inheritance ceremony. But anyways I'm sure most of us are aware of that by now.

 

But it's basically what Tails said, the keyblade generally chooses those with a strong heart, whether it be of darkness or light. The inheritance ceremony doesn't guarantee you one, but I guess it "ups your chances" of getting one.

 

kairi was not a accident remember xh said I can not change things destine to happen and I'm pretty sure if kairi wasn't destine to wield a key xh would have f'd it up

[Ajexmi 446]

I still don't agree with the whole Roxas' heart is part Sora's and part Ven's part. Imma gonna just go through the list

 

Just my thoughtsI feel like I'm stabbing your theory and then kicking it to death >________< gomenasai

 

At the end of KH3D it was stated by Xemnas that many members shown signs of growing hearts and Sora (after he received Roxas' memories) yelled at them saying "Why would you lie to them and tell them that they don't have hearts!?" (something really close to that). wait... scene:

 

I think most theorists agree that Roxas is Sora's body plus Ven's heart. The heart is the person's identity, which gave proof to Ven's heart being inside of Roxas. Roxas is Sora's Nobody, while Sora's Heartless was his heart. The identity thing was kinda explained by Riku momentarily losing his appearance.

Namine is still a mystery. Ansem the Wise couldn't even think of any possible explanations. All we know for sure is she was created similarly to a Nobody but when Kairi's heart left Sora's body. That weird scenario gave her the power over Sora's memories and Ven being inside Sora may have influenced where she was "born." I did however hear an interesting theory about her being that protection charm Aqua placed on Kairi.

Original theory: http://forums.khinsi...e-revisted.html (long theory is long... I need to read through this again)

 

I like the idea of Namine kinda being Kairi's guardian angel.... yet it's one of those things I bet won't get explained in future titles.... damn!

 

It sounds like we agree on the foundations of both sides of this debate, but differ in the opinion of Roxas being created with his own heart alone,or whether he harboured Ven's heart whilst growing his own new heart. From that, I don't think there is an answer but both opinions (although we both butt heads on a couple of specifics) are equally valid at this stage.

 

BTW, my bad on the whole Roxas' motive thing, you're totally right and I should slap myself for forgetting that!

 

As for the evidence involving 'many members showing signs' I think the vague choice of words covers the entire organisation not any specific ones. I agree totally that Axel grew a heart and became Lea, but whilst I can't push any solid evidence forward in defence of this next opinion, I will state it anyways:

 

If you recall Xion's final moments in 358/2 - remember HOW she disappeared? The weird ice casing and all that shizz? It was totally different to how the other members who were defeated faded. Also, in the final fight she transformed into Aqua's armour (or something to that effect) to fight in various worlds. So she first appeared to Roxas as Sora before the fight, turned into the armour during it, and back to her Kairi-like form as she passed away. So here's the kicker: If she had a heart then why didn't she have her own identity? She just seemed to mimic the identity of others, and only have the armour underneath instead of turning human. So I don't think she did grow a heart like Roxas and Axel did. If you reference Ansem the Wise's words at the end of the game, I reckon he was referring as much to Pinoccio as much as Xion (who he shouldn't even remember, btw)

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

I disagree with many of the above theories (not so much khoathkeeper13 though). They are no less valid than my own, but here is what I see as more accurate:

 

There are links to all of the names listed in terms of heritage. After Terra bequeathed his blade to Riku, Aqua responded by giving Sora that task of protecting and guiding Riku (you may or may not believe that may have been her bequeathing to Sora - I personally think it is irrelevant either way). So when Riku could not accept the Kingdom Key due to the darkness in his heart, it went to Sora - being that his duty was to guide and protect the true chosen one so that he may one day wield a keyblade. This came true when he summoned the Way To Dawn blade in COM and chose to fight the darkness and protect the light.

 

Aqua did give not give Sora the task to be Riku's personal gaurdian, she merely saw a parrallel between Sora, and Riku and her situation between Terra and herself. She intially was going to choose Sora as her sucessor but noted that Riku already had been passed the same power. Instead of thrusting the conflict that she was currently going through on the two boys, she simply told Sora to keep Riku on the right path as a "projection of her own thought.

 

In Aqua's chapter, on the Destiny Islands, was Aqua originally intending to perform the Keyblade rite for Sora or Riku?

 

Nomura: Yes. When Aqua met Sora and Riku, she was on the point of realising that she may end up having to fight Terra. At that point she was going to perform the rite of succession for Sora, but realised that Terra had already performed the rite for Riku. Not wanting sora and Riku to end up fighting like she and Terra in the future, she didn't perform the rite for Sora. This is the meaning behind her murmurs that "One must not get too close to a chosen one," and "I must not make them walk the same path." When she tells Sora he must save Riku if he ends up walking the wrong path, she's projecting her own thoughts onto Sora.

---

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/943347-kingdom-hearts-birth-by-sleep/57971099?page=1

 

 

Bequathing is like leaving the keyblade as inheritance - I'm sure at some point in the series that wielders can sense the 'mark' of a potential wielder or something - and is set in stone as long as the blade can connect with the wielder's heart (as the soul eater could when Riku was overcome by darkness AKA Ansem, but the Kingdom Key (light) couldn't)

 

Yen Sid evidently selected to bequeath his blade to Mickey and took him on as an apprentice to teach him how to wield a keyblade. The same is true of Lea - however I have no clue who taught him.... I can't remember if it's mentioned or not. But the point is, yes if you have a strong heart a wielder can teach you to wield a keyblade or bequeath you with the ability to. It isn't left to chance. A

lso, Eraqus mentored Terra and Aqua and that is how they attained their blades, whereas Xehanort himself mentored Ventus.

 

This has already been confirmed in interviews.

 

This time we saw a "rite of succession"* - is that a required condition for becoming a Keyblade user?

 

Nomura: That's essentially correct. In terms of the rite itself, the successee* just has to make the successor grasp their Keyblade - if this rite is performed by a Keyblade Master, and if they have suitable power, the Keyblade will choose that person as a Keyblade user, and appear before them. Terra, Ventus, all have passed this rite. Sora is the only exception.

 

One last thing, in regard to Roxas. it is VERY likely that, due to Sora harbouring both Ven's and Kairi's heart as well as his own when he stabbed himself in KHI (Hollow Bastion), Roxas was born with a heart, or formed one within 7 days of being a Nobody (due to the time it took for the hearts to merge to create a new one). You don't see Roxas wield before Day 7 in 358/2, do you? and he was in 'a zombie like state'. This said, he possesses a heart born of two original hearts of Keyblade Wielders (remember Riku had succumbed by this point and Sora was a true wielder) - being Ventus and Sora. This gives him not only the ability to wield, but to dual wield.

 

No Roxas was born with Ventus heart only, if he had any bit of Sora's heart inside of him he would look like a combination of both Ven and Sora. Plus it was confirmed in the interviews that this is the case.

Also that's why Roxas was able to duelwield as he was us both Sora's and Ventus's keyblades.

 

 

 

 

*Q4: Why can Roxas dual-wield?*

 

A: Because he can use both Sora’s and Ventus’ keyblades. Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once
Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield.

 

Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

 

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart. As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked. And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

 

The reason why Roxas acted like a zombie in the beginning of his life was because he had no memories of his previous life. This is because Sora's existence as a heartless was so short and he retained all his memories.

Edited November 19, 2012 by devereauxr

[khoathkeeper13 429]

We seriously need some kind of reports in 3D, that was the fuel for theories. With this were just confused by confusing dialogue that we probably have to memorize to be able to make sense from it.

If you recall Xion's final moments in 358/2 - remember HOW she disappeared? The weird ice casing and all that shizz? It was totally different to how the other members who were defeated faded. Also, in the final fight she transformed into Aqua's armour (or something to that effect) to fight in various worlds. So she first appeared to Roxas as Sora before the fight, turned into the armour during it, and back to her Kairi-like form as she passed away. So here's the kicker: If she had a heart then why didn't she have her own identity? She just seemed to mimic the identity of others, and only have the armour underneath instead of turning human. So I don't think she did grow a heart like Roxas and Axel did. If you reference Ansem the Wise's words at the end of the game, I reckon he was referring as much to Pinoccio as much as Xion (who he shouldn't even remember, btw)

 

She wasn't a Nobody but a replica made from memories which is why I imagine she faded differently. I dunno

It was some armor created by those devices meant to amplify Sora's memories or something of that nature.

You mentioning the ending, Xion was there along with Roxas and Ven. But it she didn't have a heart and truly faded away then how would that be possible?

The foundation of her being was made with Sora's memories and she continues to absorb memories and she's really confused who she is but in the end she turns back to looking like Xion. She has a resemblance to Kairi but she's still not the same, like how Sora and Roxas aren't the same. And she's gonna come back so can't we just go with she has some amount of a heart?

"The heart has always been quick to grow"

"Once born, the heart can also be nurtured"

Puppets can relate to both Pinochio and Xion, and he's data, he doesn't have to remember stuff

No Roxas was born with Ventus heart only, if he had any bit of Sora's heart inside of him he would look like a combination of both Ven and Sora. Plus it was confirmed in the interviews that this is the case.

 

Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

 

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart. As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked. And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

 

The reason why Roxas acted like a zombie in the beginning of his life was because he had no memories of his previous life. This is because Sora's existence as a heartless was so short and he retained all his memories.

 

Thank you

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I like the idea of Namine kinda being Kairi's guardian angel.... yet it's one of those things I bet won't get explained in future titles.... damn!

 

It sounds like we agree on the foundations of both sides of this debate, but differ in the opinion of Roxas being created with his own heart alone,or whether he harboured Ven's heart whilst growing his own new heart. From that, I don't think there is an answer but both opinions (although we both butt heads on a couple of specifics) are equally valid at this stage.

 

BTW, my bad on the whole Roxas' motive thing, you're totally right and I should slap myself for forgetting that!

 

As for the evidence involving 'many members showing signs' I think the vague choice of words covers the entire organisation not any specific ones. I agree totally that Axel grew a heart and became Lea, but whilst I can't push any solid evidence forward in defence of this next opinion, I will state it anyways:

 

If you recall Xion's final moments in 358/2 - remember HOW she disappeared? The weird ice casing and all that shizz? It was totally different to how the other members who were defeated faded. Also, in the final fight she transformed into Aqua's armour (or something to that effect) to fight in various worlds. So she first appeared to Roxas as Sora before the fight, turned into the armour during it, and back to her Kairi-like form as she passed away. So here's the kicker: If she had a heart then why didn't she have her own identity? She just seemed to mimic the identity of others, and only have the armour underneath instead of turning human. So I don't think she did grow a heart like Roxas and Axel did. If you reference Ansem the Wise's words at the end of the game, I reckon he was referring as much to Pinoccio as much as Xion (who he shouldn't even remember, btw)

 

 

It was already confirmed YEARS ago Roxas consisted of Soras body and Vens heart . Vens heart was never released when Sora released the hearts - it stayed in the body hence his appearance . Because Sora was restored to walking heart status in human form keeping his own memories , Roxas was born like a zombie...Vens heart never merged with Soras when they were in Soras body..They resided separetely.. Soras heart turned into the shadow and then into human form due to Kairi purifying him while Vens heart stayed in Sora's body aka Roxas.. ..Roxas wielded Soras keyblade from the beginning and then used Vens to dual wield . Its been said by Nomura he shared his keyblade with Roxas during that time , both of them using it back and forth till Sora was asleep This is also confirmed by Nomura himself .The death of Xion awakened the ability to dual wield due to the strong emotions felt by Roxas..Xion's keyblade is fake and it was even said in game by Riku and also confirmed by Nomura .Roxas then used Soras and Vens to dual wield , also confirmed .

 

 

Also Xion's armour was formed in the image of Sora not Aqua .You can even see the helmet in one of the forms is soras hair ..All the forms used in Xions fight were a version of Sora ...In DDD its been hinted that Xion could have definitely grew her own heart over time . She faded differently bc she was a replica, not a true nobody .

 

Aqua did give not give Sora the task to be Riku's personal gaurdian, she merely saw a parrallel between Sora, and Riku and her situation between Terra and herself. She intially was going to choose Sora as her sucessor but noted that Riku already had been passed the same power. Instead of thrusting the conflict that she was currently going through on the two boys, she simply told Sora to keep Riku on the right path as a "projection of her own thought.

 

In Aqua's chapter, on the Destiny Islands, was Aqua originally intending to perform the Keyblade rite for Sora or Riku?

 

Nomura: Yes. When Aqua met Sora and Riku, she was on the point of realising that she may end up having to fight Terra. At that point she was going to perform the rite of succession for Sora, but realised that Terra had already performed the rite for Riku. Not wanting sora and Riku to end up fighting like she and Terra in the future, she didn't perform the rite for Sora. This is the meaning behind her murmurs that "One must not get too close to a chosen one," and "I must not make them walk the same path." When she tells Sora he must save Riku if he ends up walking the wrong path, she's projecting her own thoughts onto Sora.

---

http://www.gamefaqs....57971099?page=1

 

 

This has already been confirmed in interviews.

 

This time we saw a "rite of succession"* - is that a required condition for becoming a Keyblade user?

 

Nomura: That's essentially correct. In terms of the rite itself, the successee* just has to make the successor grasp their Keyblade - if this rite is performed by a Keyblade Master, and if they have suitable power, the Keyblade will choose that person as a Keyblade user, and appear before them. Terra, Ventus, all have passed this rite. Sora is the only exception.

 

 

No Roxas was born with Ventus heart only, if he had any bit of Sora's heart inside of him he would look like a combination of both Ven and Sora. Plus it was confirmed in the interviews that this is the case.

 

Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

 

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart. As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked. And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

 

The reason why Roxas acted like a zombie in the beginning of his life was because he had no memories of his previous life. This is because Sora's existence as a heartless was so short and he retained all his memories.

 

All of this is indeed correct

[WakelessDream 2,278]

kairi was not a accident remember xh said I can not change things destine to happen and I'm pretty sure if kairi wasn't destine to wield a key xh would have f'd it up

 

The accident of triggering the unintentional inheritance ceremony was destined to happen.

The accident was destined to happen. :0

[Ajexmi 446]

Aqua did give not give Sora the task to be Riku's personal gaurdian, she merely saw a parrallel between Sora, and Riku and her situation between Terra and herself. She intially was going to choose Sora as her sucessor but noted that Riku already had been passed the same power. Instead of thrusting the conflict that she was currently going through on the two boys, she simply told Sora to keep Riku on the right path as a "projection of her own thought.

 

In Aqua's chapter, on the Destiny Islands, was Aqua originally intending to perform the Keyblade rite for Sora or Riku?

 

Nomura: Yes. When Aqua met Sora and Riku, she was on the point of realising that she may end up having to fight Terra. At that point she was going to perform the rite of succession for Sora, but realised that Terra had already performed the rite for Riku. Not wanting sora and Riku to end up fighting like she and Terra in the future, she didn't perform the rite for Sora. This is the meaning behind her murmurs that "One must not get too close to a chosen one," and "I must not make them walk the same path." When she tells Sora he must save Riku if he ends up walking the wrong path, she's projecting her own thoughts onto Sora.

---

http://www.gamefaqs....57971099?page=1

 

 

This has already been confirmed in interviews.

 

This time we saw a "rite of succession"* - is that a required condition for becoming a Keyblade user?

 

Nomura: That's essentially correct. In terms of the rite itself, the successee* just has to make the successor grasp their Keyblade - if this rite is performed by a Keyblade Master, and if they have suitable power, the Keyblade will choose that person as a Keyblade user, and appear before them. Terra, Ventus, all have passed this rite. Sora is the only exception.

 

 

No Roxas was born with Ventus heart only, if he had any bit of Sora's heart inside of him he would look like a combination of both Ven and Sora. Plus it was confirmed in the interviews that this is the case.

Also that's why Roxas was able to duelwield as he was us both Sora's and Ventus's keyblades.

 

 

 

 

*Q4: Why can Roxas dual-wield?*

 

A: Because he can use both Sora’s and Ventus’ keyblades. Sora can wield two keyblades at once because he has Ventus’ as well as his own. As Roxas is a part of Sora, he also can use two. In Days Roxas awakened his ability to dual wield after fighting Xion. In KHII once
Sora absorbs him, he can also dual-wield.

 

Why do Roxas and Ventus look alike?

 

A: Because inside Sora, which is Roxas’ body, is Ventus’ heart. As was shown in the opening to BbS and the ending to Last Episode, Sora and Ventus’ heart are linked. And so Roxas, who is a part of Sora, was affected by that and looks just like Ventus.

 

 

The reason why Roxas acted like a zombie in the beginning of his life was because he had no memories of his previous life. This is because Sora's existence as a heartless was so short and he retained all his memories.

 

We seriously need some kind of reports in 3D, that was the fuel for theories. With this were just confused by confusing dialogue that we probably have to memorize to be able to make sense from it.

 

She wasn't a Nobody but a replica made from memories which is why I imagine she faded differently. I dunno

It was some armor created by those devices meant to amplify Sora's memories or something of that nature.

You mentioning the ending, Xion was there along with Roxas and Ven. But it she didn't have a heart and truly faded away then how would that be possible?

The foundation of her being was made with Sora's memories and she continues to absorb memories and she's really confused who she is but in the end she turns back to looking like Xion. She has a resemblance to Kairi but she's still not the same, like how Sora and Roxas aren't the same. And she's gonna come back so can't we just go with she has some amount of a heart?

"The heart has always been quick to grow"

"Once born, the heart can also be nurtured"

Puppets can relate to both Pinochio and Xion, and he's data, he doesn't have to remember stuff

 

Thank you

 

It was already confirmed YEARS ago Roxas consisted of Soras body and Vens heart . Vens heart was never released when Sora released the hearts - it stayed in the body hence his appearance . Because Sora was restored to walking heart status in human form keeping his own memories , Roxas was born like a zombie...Vens heart never merged with Soras when they were in Soras body..They resided separetely.. Soras heart turned into the shadow and then into human form due to Kairi purifying him while Vens heart stayed in Sora's body aka Roxas.. ..Roxas wielded Soras keyblade from the beginning and then used Vens to dual wield . Its been said by Nomura he shared his keyblade with Roxas during that time , both of them using it back and forth till Sora was asleep This is also confirmed by Nomura himself .The death of Xion awakened the ability to dual wield due to the strong emotions felt by Roxas..Xion's keyblade is fake and it was even said in game by Riku and also confirmed by Nomura .Roxas then used Soras and Vens to dual wield , also confirmed .

 

 

Also Xion's armour was formed in the image of Sora not Aqua .You can even see the helmet in one of the forms is soras hair ..All the forms used in Xions fight were a version of Sora ...In DDD its been hinted that Xion could have definitely grew her own heart over time . She faded differently bc she was a replica, not a true nobody .

 

 

 

All of this is indeed correct

 

I yield, I was wrong in my theories. The evidence provided is undeniable, and I see where I was mislead/misunderstood. My apologies! Thanks guys for actually opening my eyes to a lot of new information here! I wish someone could have referred me to the Nomura interview links sooner so I could see for myself....

 

I guess it's just a case of waiting for KHIII to come out and connect all the dots in front of us and answer everything for good in terms of Roxas/Xion/Ven involvement in the story moving forward. In any case, THANKS AGAIN!!!! Hope I didn't make myself out to look so naive and like I was pulling info out of nowhere....

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

I yield, I was wrong in my theories. The evidence provided is undeniable, and I see where I was mislead/misunderstood. My apologies! Thanks guys for actually opening my eyes to a lot of new information here! I wish someone could have referred me to the Nomura interview links sooner so I could see for myself....

 

I guess it's just a case of waiting for KHIII to come out and connect all the dots in front of us and answer everything for good in terms of Roxas/Xion/Ven involvement in the story moving forward. In any case, THANKS AGAIN!!!! Hope I didn't make myself out to look so naive and like I was pulling info out of nowhere....

 

No problem .Glad to have helped you .

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

 

 

 

It was already confirmed YEARS ago Roxas consisted of Soras body and Vens heart . Vens heart was never released when Sora released the hearts - it stayed in the body hence his appearance . Because Sora was restored to walking heart status in human form keeping his own memories , Roxas was born like a zombie...Vens heart never merged with Soras when they were in Soras body..They resided separetely.. Soras heart turned into the shadow and then into human form due to Kairi purifying him while Vens heart stayed in Sora's body aka Roxas.. ..Roxas wielded Soras keyblade from the beginning and then used Vens to dual wield . Its been said by Nomura he shared his keyblade with Roxas during that time , both of them using it back and forth till Sora was asleep This is also confirmed by Nomura himself .The death of Xion awakened the ability to dual wield due to the strong emotions felt by Roxas..Xion's keyblade is fake and it was even said in game by Riku and also confirmed by Nomura .Roxas then used Soras and Vens to dual wield , also confirmed .

 

 

Also Xion's armour was formed in the image of Sora not Aqua .You can even see the helmet in one of the forms is soras hair ..All the forms used in Xions fight were a version of Sora ...In DDD its been hinted that Xion could have definitely grew her own heart over time . She faded differently bc she was a replica, not a true nobody .

 

 

 

All of this is indeed correct

 

Exactly in fact it's impossible for xion to have been created from Aqua's armor especially seeing as it was still in the chamber of repose during the entire time of Xion's existence. Also all her forms were based on Sora's memories that machines had captured.

 

 

*-- On day 322 Saix says, “In a few days the three machines will be in operation.” Was he talking about the machines that appear in the fight with Xion?*

 

Nomura: Yes. They used them to absorb the memories from the places Sora had visited. These memories were sent to the “body” that Xemnas gave Xion, and amplified her power.

---

 

A: Because Aqua tried to save Terra.When she tried to retrieve Terra’s heart from Terra-Xehanort, they both fell into the realm of darkness, and she gave him both her armor and keyblade which allowed him to escape. Because of this when Ansem the Wise picked up Xehanort, he still had the armor

[khoathkeeper13 429]

I wish someone could have referred me to the Nomura interview links sooner so I could see for myself....

 

*laughs sheepishly* Oops