KH3D Question In Regard To The Last Words Of Master Xehanort (SPOILERS)

[Ajexmi 446]

At the end of Riku's story,

When you defeat him and Lea prevents him from turning Sora into the 13th vessel, Master Xehanort and his cloaked cohorts fade away. Xehanort said that they were 'out of time' and that they would return to fight the 7 lights in the destined place. What confuses me is what he meant when he said 'out of time'. Did they all fade and return to their times, and the nobodies 'unexist' again? if so, why when they had re-acquired hearts? and even then, why did Lea not disappear?

 

Perhaps Xehanort took them elsewhere to find his 13th vessel? Wild idea, but still.... Was it just a play on the whole Time Travelling element? Finally, if they did disappear, then how will they return? when their bodies re-find the hearts? But didn't Kingdom Hearts return the hearts initially, and is now inaccessible?

 

So much confusion from one question. It throws loads of stuff I DO KNOW into question too.... I reckon Nomura probably has that problem too every now and again though!

 

Any ideas you wanna share would be welcome with great interest

 

PS: Sorry if this is jumbled and makes little sense!

Edited November 11, 2012 by Ajexmi

[Rob 5,571]

http://kh13.com/interviews/

 

KH3D Ultimania

[Ajexmi 446]

Although those interviews are interesting, I opened the Ultimania one you suggested, but there's no information in regard to my question there....

 

http://kh13.com/interviews/

 

KH3D Ultimania

 

[SolidScientist 3]

It was my understanding that the "Real Organization XIII" was comprised of a bunch of Xehanorts from different time periods and a couple of the old organization members who'd had part of Xehanort's heart already implanted into them (i.e. Braig and Isa). as for the disappearing I think it just had something to do with the dangers of leaving your own time. for example if YMX stayed out of his time for too long then Old Master Xehanort may cease to exist, or at least exist differently. It was also implied that Ansem, seeker of darkness and Xemnas were pulled from the near past to attend the meeting, which would mean they'd still have to go back to their times and be defeated by Sora to allow Xehanort to re-exist in the first place.

 

The story is ridiculous the that's the best I can do lol.

[Ajexmi 446]

It was my understanding that the "Real Organization XIII" was comprised of a bunch of Xehanorts from different time periods and a couple of the old organization members who'd had part of Xehanort's heart already implanted into them (i.e. Braig and Isa). as for the disappearing I think it just had something to do with the dangers of leaving your own time. for example if YMX stayed out of his time for too long then Old Master Xehanort may cease to exist, or at least exist differently. It was also implied that Ansem, seeker of darkness and Xemnas were pulled from the near past to attend the meeting, which would mean they'd still have to go back to their times and be defeated by Sora to allow Xehanort to re-exist in the first place.

 

The story is ridiculous the that's the best I can do lol.

 

That's a good answer. I'm satisfied with that So when Xehanort hints at returning to fight the 7 lights, his young self will pull the other selves, isa and braig into the present again?

[Mr.E 7]

i'm still trying to figure out who the 7 lights and 13 darknesses are.

1) we got 8 keyblade weilders.

2) a good chunk of org XIII is now fully human (thus they cannot be whith xehenort)

3) young xehenort, he is a walking question mark.

[Ajexmi 446]

i'm still trying to figure out who the 7 lights and 13 darknesses are.

1) we got 8 keyblade weilders.

2) a good chunk of org XIII is now fully human (thus they cannot be whith xehenort)

3) young xehenort, he is a walking question mark.

 

Well on in terms of potential keyblade wielders (remember how much of a crazy b*astard Normura is), we have:

 

Sora, Riku,Kairi, Mickey, Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Roxas, Xion, Axel - so 10. Many would think that Xion will never make a comeback, and that Terra's heart is lost forever, so that would make 8..... LOGICALLY. We must also consider that Xehanort may pursue making Sora/Roxas the 13th vessel.

 

On the side of darkness:

 

Master Xehanort, his orignal self (as seen on destiny island), Terranort, Ansem (Xehanort Heartless), Xemnas, Young Xehanort, likely elderly Xehanort (robed figure from KH1), Braig, Isa - makes 9..... 10 if you include Sora.... so I am with you in being stumped on that one. The others may be other members of the organisation such as Xaldin who didn't awake in Radiant Gardens in KH3D. The remaining numbers are really anyone's guess as Nomura is, once again, a crazy b*stard!

Edited November 16, 2012 by Ajexmi

[Mr.E 7]

 

 

Well on in terms of potential keyblade wielders (remember how much of a crazy b*astard Normura is), we have:

 

Sora, Riku,Kairi, Mickey, Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Roxas, Xion, Axel - so 10. Many would think that Xion will never make a comeback, and that Terra's heart is lost forever, so that would make 8..... LOGICALLY. We must also consider that Xehanort may pursue making Sora/Roxas the 13th vessel.

 

On the side of darkness:

 

Master Xehanort, his orignal self (as seen on destiny island), Terranort, Ansem (Xehanort Heartless), Xemnas, Young Xehanort, likely elderly Xehanort (robed figure from KH1), Braig, Isa - makes 9..... 10 if you include Sora.... so I am with you in being stumped on that one. The others may be other members of the organisation such as Xaldin who didn't awake in Radiant Gardens in KH3D. The remaining numbers are really anyone's guess as Nomura is, once again, a crazy b*stard!

 

i was only referring to the 3 "missing friends" the original trio (sora, riku, kairi) then we add mickey and lea so thats 8, but then again roxas and xion are in a similar state as ventus so it wouldnt be much of a stretch for them to get a comeback.

[Ajexmi 446]

i was only referring to the 3 "missing friends" the original trio (sora, riku, kairi) then we add mickey and lea so thats 8, but then again roxas and xion are in a similar state as ventus so it wouldnt be much of a stretch for them to get a comeback.

 

exactly, especially with the knowledge that anything can grow a heart (Xion - the puppet). Plus, Ven seems to be hinted at a fair few times as an important role that needs to be filled - perhaps we shall see a return of Vanitas too, as we saw a flah of him early in Sora's story in 3D.... at this stage it is way to early to speculate accurately. I mean even Sora's role in the 7 is in question now, whereas it was never in doubt before 3D that he would remain at centre stage.

[KingdomKarts_:P 14]

Nomura himself said that the << disappearing >> means both things: 1)returning to your own time temporarily

2)going into a different world in the present

Not all members transcended time. Lea didnt disappear because he isnt from the past.

I believe MX has the power to re-summon them until they die lol. Then IF HE WANTS THEM AGAIN he must cast aside his body etc.

the time travel concept isnt hard to understand. Past cannot be changed no matter the present AND you cant travel beyond the present.

[Ajexmi 446]

Nomura himself said that the << disappearing >> means both things: 1)returning to your own time temporarily

2)going into a different world in the present

Not all members transcended time. Lea didnt disappear because he isnt from the past.

I believe MX has the power to re-summon them until they die lol. Then IF HE WANTS THEM AGAIN he must cast aside his body etc.

the time travel concept isnt hard to understand. Past cannot be changed no matter the present AND you cant travel beyond the present.

 

Nice! Links would be nice if you have them

[KingdomKarts_:P 14]

Nice! Links would be nice if you have them

 

nah i dont sry ... but i know i read them in this site you could look ( i wouldnt lie anyway )

[AntonioKHT 449]

Answering the topic, the memebers returned to their original timelines, they had a certain amount of time to stay in the same place and Time. They will meet together again at the "Promised Place", the Keyblade Graveyard to clash and form the X-Blade, because it's fate. They will be able too coexist becuase they will have vessels, and won't have a "time limit" like the last time. The bodies that are in the present time will enable them to stay in that timeline and with their own hearts.

[Ajexmi 446]

Answering the topic, the memebers returned to their original timelines, they had a certain amount of time to stay in the same place and Time. They will meet together again at the "Promised Place", the Keyblade Graveyard to clash and form the X-Blade, because it's fate. They will be able too coexist becuase they will have vessels, and won't have a "time limit" like the last time. The bodies that are in the present time will enable them to stay in that timeline and with their own hearts.

 

So would you say (as a lot is left to mere speculation at the moment) that they may only co-exist when the fated 13 darknesses are gathered? also, if 'they' cannot co-exist until they have vessels, are you suggesting that the majority of the coats gathered in the round room at the end of 3D were not vessels already? Because I think a lot of evidence suggests (includingXehanort saying that Sora's body would make 13, and Isa being under MX's control) that the 12 in the room WERE vessels. Perhaps you meant that the process of turning them into full vessels was incomplete and can only be completed individually once the 13 had been obtained?

[AntonioKHT 449]

So would you say (as a lot is left to mere speculation at the moment) that they may only co-exist when the fated 13 darknesses are gathered? also, if 'they' cannot co-exist until they have vessels, are you suggesting that the majority of the coats gathered in the round room at the end of 3D were not vessels already? Because I think a lot of evidence suggests (includingXehanort saying that Sora's body would make 13, and Isa being under MX's control) that the 12 in the room WERE vessels. Perhaps you meant that the process of turning them into full vessels was incomplete and can only be completed individually once the 13 had been obtained?

 

No, I think that they could co-exist if they were vessels.

What i said was: those were only the versions of each timeline. The vessels are the bodies that the hearts are gonna be inserted. When they get a body that exists in that timeline and fill it with a piece of Xehanort's heart, they'll become proper vessels, that'll be to exist without a "time limit"

That's what I think anyways, it's not like it's the truth ok?

[Ajexmi 446]

No, I think that they could co-exist if they were vessels.

What i said was: those were only the versions of each timeline. The vessels are the bodies that the hearts are gonna be inserted. When they get a body that exists in that timeline and fill it with a piece of Xehanort's heart, they'll become proper vessels, that'll be to exist without a "time limit"

That's what I think anyways, it's not like it's the truth ok?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising your opinion or claiming it's wrong, I'm simply exploring your thesis. If that were true though, then how many vessels would Xehanort have? Braig, Isa and then Sora if he had succeeded? But the Sora would be the 3rd vessel, not the 13th as Xehanort stated he would be. Also, isn't it plausible that Master Xehanort could use the alternate versions of himself as vessels too - which would mean Sora would have made the 13th. However, the issue with that is the disturbance that would cause in the timeline as his alternate selves would permanently disappear from their respective times. The only loophole I can see in this is that at some point in time, each version disappears from existence due to the destined event of each version of Xehanort being used as a vessel when the 13 darknesses are assembled. Your thoughts?

[AntonioKHT 449]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising your opinion or claiming it's wrong, I'm simply exploring your thesis. If that were true though, then how many vessels would Xehanort have? Braig, Isa and then Sora if he had succeeded? But the Sora would be the 3rd vessel, not the 13th as Xehanort stated he would be. Also, isn't it plausible that Master Xehanort could use the alternate versions of himself as vessels too - which would mean Sora would have made the 13th. However, the issue with that is the disturbance that would cause in the timeline as his alternate selves would permanently disappear from their respective times. The only loophole I can see in this is that at some point in time, each version disappears from existence due to the destined event of each version of Xehanort being used as a vessel when the 13 darknesses are assembled. Your thoughts?

 

Sorry I sound rude or anything. It really wasn't my intention. I don't like doing that, it kinda takes away the fun that I think this site has.

Sora would ve the 13th vessel, I don't get where that came from... i get some parts of your post, and I'm gonna try to explain it again.

It's like, Xehanort needs bodies so his version can exist in the present. I think, he transported the versions of himself to The World That Never Was, so they could acquire the last body they needed. They vanished because they were their own bodies from the past. Now, to exist in the present, as they intend, they are gonna use bodies that will be filled with Xehanort's heart and mind. Those bodies can exist in the present, so they won't vanish. That's what I think

I'd like to discuss more on this now, but I have to go, it's getting late, and I have to wake up early tomorrow. I'd be glad to talk to you more another day, so leave a answer so that I can reply to you another day! See ya.

[Ajexmi 446]

Sorry I sound rude or anything. It really wasn't my intention. I don't like doing that, it kinda takes away the fun that I think this site has.

Sora would ve the 13th vessel, I don't get where that came from... i get some parts of your post, and I'm gonna try to explain it again.

It's like, Xehanort needs bodies so his version can exist in the present. I think, he transported the versions of himself to The World That Never Was, so they could acquire the last body they needed. They vanished because they were their own bodies from the past. Now, to exist in the present, as they intend, they are gonna use bodies that will be filled with Xehanort's heart and mind. Those bodies can exist in the present, so they won't vanish. That's what I think

I'd like to discuss more on this now, but I have to go, it's getting late, and I have to wake up early tomorrow. I'd be glad to talk to you more another day, so leave a answer so that I can reply to you another day! See ya.

 

Nah man, don't worry I was just making sure I hadn't come across the wrong way to you!

 

I think we're both getting a little mixed up here. Isa and Braig are both definitely under Xehanort's control, and if what Braig said to Sora before his last battle with Xemnas is anything to go by that means they have portions of Xehanort's heart and mind already placed in them. So, why only those 2 and not the other versions of himself? Isa and Braig also disappeared, and they exist in present time already with their hearts. They have no other time to go back to.

 

On the topic of being able to exist in the present once the vessels have xehanort's heart and mind placed in them, that would mean they have been permanently pulled from their respective times, which would disrupt the flow of time = UNLESS at some point in time, all alternate versions of Xehanort disappear from their times due to the fated gathering of the 13 darknesses. This seems a little far-fetched to me, even for Nomura!

 

I hope that makes more sense

[AntonioKHT 449]

Nah man, don't worry I was just making sure I hadn't come across the wrong way to you!

 

I think we're both getting a little mixed up here. Isa and Braig are both definitely under Xehanort's control, and if what Braig said to Sora before his last battle with Xemnas is anything to go by that means they have portions of Xehanort's heart and mind already placed in them. So, why only those 2 and not the other versions of himself? Isa and Braig also disappeared, and they exist in present time already with their hearts. They have no other time to go back to.

 

On the topic of being able to exist in the present once the vessels have xehanort's heart and mind placed in them, that would mean they have been permanently pulled from their respective times, which would disrupt the flow of time = UNLESS at some point in time, all alternate versions of Xehanort disappear from their times due to the fated gathering of the 13 darknesses. This seems a little far-fetched to me, even for Nomura!

 

I hope that makes more sense

 

I'm glad there's nothing weird going on! Hahahaha

 

Yes, it's true, Brig and Isa (or Xigbar and Saix, i really don't know...) are under Xehanort's control. That really is because Xehanort placed portions of his heart into them, making them vessels. We didn't really see the other members of the new Organization XIII, so I can't say for sure. My guess is that he will fill bodies with diferent versions of Xehanort into present time bodies. i say this, because if you consider that Saix and Xigbar should have been destroyed and return to their original persona's, maybe the ones we saw in KH3D were from the past. The reals ones were hiding somewhere else.

 

Yeah, the last part seems too much... I don't think that'll happen but who know, right? But anyways, I think that the real persons that will be in the Keyblade Graveyard will be versions of Xehanort but controlling other bodies, like Terra's, that exist in the present. There's no way they can use their own bodies to stay and sort things out, they'll run out of time before forming the X-Blade.

 

Braig and Isa are the bodies Xehanort's using to make his version of pure Darkness exist and clash with the Light warriors. Most likely other versions of Xehanort will fill other bodies (like Young Master Xehanort) or maybe different sorts of members (like Vanitas, who knows if he's coming back? I sure hopes he will!)

 

So, I hope I made sense too! Anything you don't get, or new questions, or just an answer, send a reply!

[Ajexmi 446]

I'm glad there's nothing weird going on! Hahahaha

 

Yes, it's true, Brig and Isa (or Xigbar and Saix, i really don't know...) are under Xehanort's control. That really is because Xehanort placed portions of his heart into them, making them vessels. We didn't really see the other members of the new Organization XIII, so I can't say for sure. My guess is that he will fill bodies with diferent versions of Xehanort into present time bodies. i say this, because if you consider that Saix and Xigbar should have been destroyed and return to their original persona's, maybe the ones we saw in KH3D were from the past. The reals ones were hiding somewhere else.

 

Yeah, the last part seems too much... I don't think that'll happen but who know, right? But anyways, I think that the real persons that will be in the Keyblade Graveyard will be versions of Xehanort but controlling other bodies, like Terra's, that exist in the present. There's no way they can use their own bodies to stay and sort things out, they'll run out of time before forming the X-Blade.

 

Braig and Isa are the bodies Xehanort's using to make his version of pure Darkness exist and clash with the Light warriors. Most likely other versions of Xehanort will fill other bodies (like Young Master Xehanort) or maybe different sorts of members (like Vanitas, who knows if he's coming back? I sure hopes he will!)

 

So, I hope I made sense too! Anything you don't get, or new questions, or just an answer, send a reply!

 

It seems we agree on the most part on things here, and we lack the same answers in terms of the new Organisation members and whether or not they have portions of Xehanort's heart and mind or not. In terms of Isa and Braig, who the firetruck knows, but I doubt Isa/Saix would have attacked Lea in the way he did under normal circumstances especially as it wasn't Xemnas that issued the order. That said, there are A MILLION theories that could be said on that (yellow eyes, secret intent to save Lea or something, been Nortified since KHII, ect...)

[keystrike 145]

I thought this would offer some good context:

— Were the 13 Seekers of Darkness, who were meant to be in different times, gathered by transcending time with magic?

Nomura: Just as it says in the story, to transcend time one must ‘first’ discard their form. As a result of the actions of the Brown Robed Figure, they all were in a state where they had gained the power to transcend time. The Brown Robed Figure explains the facts. The thirteen were summoned at the same time, this time thanks to Young Xehanort who borrowed that power. However, apart from Young Xehanort, that does not mean that all the members transcended time.

[...]

— Were the members of Organisation XIII that grew hearts unsuitable as vessels for Xehanort?

Nomura: That’s not necessarily the case, however the details are a secret.

— Xigbar and Saix appeared as members of Organisation XIII. Did they return as humans like Lea and the others?

Nomura: The conditions of becoming a human have been met, so you’d think they had returned, wouldn’t you? For them to have been with Xehanort and the others, perhaps they were collected after they had become humans and before Lea and the others woke up. You could say the same for the members of Organisation XIII that didn’t appear in this title, however… I’d rather everyone use their imaginations.

 

So some of the members such as Xigbar and Saix existed in the present and did not have to return to their own time, but for the effects MX decided it would be best for them to fade out as a group. This what I got from it at least.

[Ajexmi 446]

I thought this would offer some good context: So some of the members such as Xigbar and Saix existed in the present and did not have to return to their own time, but for the effects MX decided it would be best for them to fade out as a group. This what I got from it at least.

That's incredibly useful information, and really does confirm our overall conclusion that the members and their states are indeed a mystery at the moment Thanks Keystrike!

[Iscreamer1 100]

The original Japanese translation (into English) could have a different meaning then the official English translation.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

 When you defeat him and Lea prevents him from turning Sora into the 13th vessel, Master Xehanort and his cloaked cohorts fade away. Xehanort said that they were 'out of time' and that they would return to fight the 7 lights in the destined place. What confuses me is what he meant when he said 'out of time'. Did they all fade and return to their times, and the nobodies 'unexist' again? if so, why when they had re-acquired hearts? and even then, why did Lea not dissapear

 

When Master Xehanort returned to the present as a complete person the flow of time had returned to normal. From that moment on the Organization had a limited window of opportunity to complete the thirteen darkness. Because they missed the window of opportunity had passed those who were pulled from the past returned their time, and those who were from the present went elsewhere.  It is my belief that the conditions of the TWTNW that allowed Xehanort to house all thirteen versions of himself in one place was only in place for a specific timeframe.

As for the nobodies it is highly likely that the remaining unrevealed members of the new Organization are the recompleted members from the old Organization(The ones not shown in radiant garden.) As for Lea he was not a vesssel so there was no reason for him to dissapear.

 

[shroom847 3]

I think they'll even there self's out