KHDays Xarmy Sue

[Dracozombie 4,554]

Okay, this was totally TheApprenticeofKingMickey's idea. I can't really call myself a fan of Xion, but even I got irritated by all the accusations of her being a Mary Sue, enough where, a while back, I whipped up a little something in response to all the hate. I never felt a need to make a thread for it (something about blatant advertising and stuff), but who am I to deny the whims of one of this forum's bigwigs?

 

I think it's difficult for people to listen to pro-Xion arguments because they don't tend to argue their points well enough. Even if I'm not a fan of her, looking at all the hatred she gets, and my tendency to help the underdog, I had to look at things and wonder if all the accusations were deserved. I decided that, no, they weren't, but I also wanted to argue my points in a way most people didn't. It would get the haters to maybe change their minds, or at least, back off a little.

 

I intentionally called this thread "Xarmy Sue" because the people who would click on such a thread would most likely need the most convincing. So, if you have the time, and if you wish your faith in humanity restored with a (hopefully) non-stupid argument, you can go check out a little essay I made.

 

http://dracozombie.d...t.com/#/d531kf3

 

Comments, debates?

[_The Door To Light_ 1,507]

I especially loved the TVTropes reference and the -She cockblocks Axel and Roxas!-section, because that is my greatest frustration with the people who dislike Xion.

 

This was all in all brilliant Dracozombie, I give you and Genn a million virtual high-fives.

[Protoman 1,974]

Both sides of the spectrum are firetrucking idiots for the whole pro/anti Xion thing

Let me clarify.

http://firetruckno-khsues...o-hate-xion-she

 

if you're too lazy to click the link, let me copy paste it for you.

 

" Question

Think about this, all those people who hate Xion. She is a imperfect REPLICA of Sora. A COPY of Sora. So if you hate Xion, your technically hating Sora too. She may be a different character, but she is literally made from Sora's memories. In short: you may want to stop hating on Xion.

Answer

EXACTLY

-MK "

 

And that just made no sense. OH HEY GUYS, XION IS SORA. BUT ALSO HER OWN CHARACTER, WITH DIFFERENT PERSONALITY, DEVELOPMENT, AND ROLE IN THE STORY. BUT YOU SHOULDN'T HATE ON HER BECAUSE SHES PRETTY MUCH SORA, AND YOU GOTTA LIKE THE PROTAGONIST.

CHRISTIANS 1 ATHEISTS 0

 

in which the mod agreed with her and I flipped a table.

 

It's pretty much just a war of "your opinion is wrong" that I used to care about until I found out that there's too many stupid people involved.

Besides, calling anyone a sue is pretty much pointless, god knows how many clones we will have until the end of the game. Do I care if someone hates a character? No. No I don't.

[Dracozombie 4,554]

Both sides of the spectrum are firetrucking idiots for the whole pro/anti Xion thing

Let me clarify.

http://firetruckno-khsues...o-hate-xion-she

 

if you're too lazy to click the link, let me copy paste it for you.

 

" Question

Think about this, all those people who hate Xion. She is a imperfect REPLICA of Sora. A COPY of Sora. So if you hate Xion, your technically hating Sora too. She may be a different character, but she is literally made from Sora's memories. In short: you may want to stop hating on Xion.

Answer

EXACTLY

-MK "

 

And that just made no sense. OH HEY GUYS, XION IS SORA. BUT ALSO HER OWN CHARACTER, WITH DIFFERENT PERSONALITY, DEVELOPMENT, AND ROLE IN THE STORY. BUT YOU SHOULDN'T HATE ON HER BECAUSE SHES PRETTY MUCH SORA, AND YOU GOTTA LIKE THE PROTAGONIST.

CHRISTIANS 1 ATHEISTS 0

 

in which the mod agreed with her and I flipped a table.

 

It's pretty much just a war of "your opinion is wrong" that I used to care about until I found out that there's too many stupid people involved.

Besides, calling anyone a sue is pretty much pointless, god knows how many clones we will have until the end of the game. Do I care if someone hates a character? No. No I don't.

 

Both sides indeed tend to be stupid. That's why I tried to take the middle ground and be as objective as I could, because one side never listens to the other. You may not care if people hate a character, but plenty of people do and it's something they get riled up over. Might as well try something to make things more manageable.

[WakelessDream 2,278]

Huh, I've read this before, good job. Honestly idk why people hate on her so much, when I first played Days I kinda didn't like her either but I gave her the benefit of doubt and she kinda grew on me (even if I didn't want her to at first lol)

 

But she is a character and she's not perfect, I'm sure every KH character has their own flaws, and Xion's no exception. But at the same time it's annoying that people hear the word 'Xion' and automatically grab their torches and pitchforks. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion on the character but that shouldn't ruin others' opinions on her character or the games overall and I think that can be said for both sides of the Xion love~hate spectrum, and honestly I think its a stupid thing to divide the fans over.

 

Anyways thats all I have to say about that

[Pyrrha Nikos 1,162]

Even though Xion isn't one of my favorite characters, I don't think she's a "Mary Sue". I really HATE that word so much! Its just stupid name calling!

In my opinion Xion was a nice edition to Days. She had such a great impact on Roxas and Axel's lives that put a smile on my face to see how happy these 3 together. And if it weren't for her existence, Sora would of taken less time to awaken from his slumber.

[DragonMaster 1,166]

(I believe I've said something about this on the Xion Fanclub thread, or something, but I'll post again.)

 

This is really well written, and I loved reading it. It really does counter all the undeserved hate Xion gets. I am glad you wrote it, and decided to share it with it's own thread.

 

I don't have a problem with people not liking characters, but when they repeatedly hate on a character, and fans of the character (which I have seen), then it is just going too far. People are allowed to not like Xion, but they don't have to be so obnoxious about it, especially if they're people who hate her for a really stupid reason.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

At the end of the day there is no middle ground for arguement it's all based on opinions which are subjective.You can come up with all the arguements on why Xion is a great character, and the people who hate Xion will hate Xion. You could come up with all the reasons why Xion sucks, and the people who love Xion will love Xion.

 

 

Both sides of the spectrum are firetrucking idiots for the whole pro/anti Xion thing

Let me clarify.

http://firetruckno-khsues...o-hate-xion-she

 

if you're too lazy to click the link, let me copy paste it for you.

 

" Question

Think about this, all those people who hate Xion. She is a imperfect REPLICA of Sora. A COPY of Sora. So if you hate Xion, your technically hating Sora too. She may be a different character, but she is literally made from Sora's memories. In short: you may want to stop hating on Xion.

Answer

EXACTLY

-MK "

 

And that just made no sense. OH HEY GUYS, XION IS SORA. BUT ALSO HER OWN CHARACTER, WITH DIFFERENT PERSONALITY, DEVELOPMENT, AND ROLE IN THE STORY. BUT YOU SHOULDN'T HATE ON HER BECAUSE SHES PRETTY MUCH SORA, AND YOU GOTTA LIKE THE PROTAGONIST.

CHRISTIANS 1 ATHEISTS 0

 

in which the mod agreed with her and I flipped a table.

 

It's pretty much just a war of "your opinion is wrong" that I used to care about until I found out that there's too many stupid people involved.

Besides, calling anyone a sue is pretty much pointless, god knows how many clones we will have until the end of the game. Do I care if someone hates a character? No. No I don't.

 

For once I agree with you. Edited September 16, 2012 by devereauxr

[Protoman 1,974]

For once I agree with you.

 

Ouch. Better late than never, I suppose.

[Dracozombie 4,554]

At the end of the day there is no middle ground for arguement it's all based on opinions which are subjective.You can come up with all the arguements on why Xion is a great character, and the people who hate Xion will hate Xion. You could come up with all the reasons why Xion sucks, and the people who love Xion will love Xion.

 

There's no middle ground for a great many things. Sometimes things are more subjective than people think, but there's still room for debate. It reinforces and streamlines your own beliefs, and has the side effect of giving the opposing side a more well-rounded argument. Even if you don't agree with them, at least they can defend themselves more intelligently.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Dracozombie

[hatok 6,413]

You've definitely got some very, VERY valid points that a lot of people should hear

And actually, some of my favourite things about Xion were the unique effects she had on Roxas' gameplay. I really liked the using a stick, and havling your level missions, the same sort of way I liked the fight with Guard Armour where you could see Sora on the bottom screen.

When it comes down to it, I don't particularly dislike Xion. As a character, she isn't really any better or worse than any other character bar the main protagonists. She's just handled badly. I have big problems with Days' story structure, and I feel that a better writer would have handled Xion better. I mean, if Days was a slice of life game, wouldn't it be interesting to get little slices of Roxas, Xion, and sometimes Axel's day to day life on the rooftop? I would feel a lot more legitimate emotion for Xion if I knew a series of anecdotes about her. Little quirks. Like if one day, her and Roxas talked about how they thought Xigbar was a jerk, and the next day, she talked about how she was scared at Halloween Town... that sort of thing. Little details, that would have made her a worthwhile character. I mean, they could have done something big with her, that's the reason why every other character persists (No KH character really has a well developed character, they are largely defined by big and bold actions, especially in newer games)

But they didn't. They clearly intended her to be a sympathetic character, but they eitehr didn't understand what it took to accomplish that, or were too lazy to put in the effort.

 

Really, Xion is the victim of being in a lazy and cheap Kingdom Hearts game

 

(I'll be honest, I came to this topic expecting it to be about how Xehanort is a Mary Sure)

Edited September 16, 2012 by hatok

[Dracozombie 4,554]

You've definitely got some very, VERY valid points that a lot of people should hear

And actually, some of my favourite things about Xion were the unique effects she had on Roxas' gameplay. I really liked the using a stick, and havling your level missions, the same sort of way I liked the fight with Guard Armour where you could see Sora on the bottom screen.

When it comes down to it, I don't particularly dislike Xion. As a character, she isn't really any better or worse than any other character bar the main protagonists. She's just handled badly. I have big problems with Days' story structure, and I feel that a better writer would have handled Xion better. I mean, if Days was a slice of life game, wouldn't it be interesting to get little slices of Roxas, Xion, and sometimes Axel's day to day life on the rooftop? I would feel a lot more legitimate emotion for Xion if I knew a series of anecdotes about her. Little quirks. Like if one day, her and Roxas talked about how they thought Xigbar was a jerk, and the next day, she talked about how she was scared at Halloween Town... that sort of thing. Little details, that would have made her a worthwhile character. I mean, they could have done something big with her, that's the reason why every other character persists (No KH character really has a well developed character, they are largely defined by big and bold actions, especially in newer games)

But they didn't. They clearly intended her to be a sympathetic character, but they eitehr didn't understand what it took to accomplish that, or were too lazy to put in the effort.

 

Really, Xion is the victim of being in a lazy and cheap Kingdom Hearts game

 

(I'll be honest, I came to this topic expecting it to be about how Xehanort is a Mary Sure)

 

Valid points were what I hoped to achieve. But the reasons you listed is why, even if I don't hate her, I don't really care for her. She does feel pretty underdeveloped compared to the others, and I don't really know much about her. The quirks, like you said, would've definitely helped to flesh her out. It's a shame Days could've used more work in many departments, but all the hate for her started to grate on my nerves. Sometimes I can understand if someone hates a character, but most of the reasons I've seen people bash Xion for aren't very good reasons.

 

(Xehanort, a Sue? I haven't heard anything to that effect. )

[hatok 6,413]

(Xehanort, a Sue? I haven't heard anything to that effect. )

 

(Neither have I, that's why I clicked the topic! Your topic was good too though )

[Gambler'sApprentice 131]

Okay, this was totally TheApprenticeofKingMickey's idea. I can't really call myself a fan of Xion, but even I got irritated by all the accusations of her being a Mary Sue, enough where, a while back, I whipped up a little something in response to all the hate. I never felt a need to make a thread for it (something about blatant advertising and stuff), but who am I to deny the whims of one of this forum's bigwigs?

 

I think it's difficult for people to listen to pro-Xion arguments because they don't tend to argue their points well enough. Even if I'm not a fan of her, looking at all the hatred she gets, and my tendency to help the underdog, I had to look at things and wonder if all the accusations were deserved. I decided that, no, they weren't, but I also wanted to argue my points in a way most people didn't. It would get the haters to maybe change their minds, or at least, back off a little.

 

I intentionally called this thread "Xarmy Sue" because the people who would click on such a thread would most likely need the most convincing. So, if you have the time, and if you wish your faith in humanity restored with a (hopefully) non-stupid argument, you can go check out a little essay I made.

 

http://dracozombie.d...t.com/#/d531kf3

 

Comments, debates?

 

Excellent, very well written, one complaint. Saix and Xemnas are the only ones that don't treat her normally, Xigbar makes fun of her, but he does that to everyone, and everyone else is vaguely polite, or as close as they can get (Xaldin)

[Soul Eater Evans 4,045]

OBJECTION!

"A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fan fiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader."

1. Over idealized mannerisms & hackneyed: She does NOT have your "ideal" manners. She doesn't just eat ice cream and be "that girl". She is not "overused".

2. Lacking flaws: Technically, she IS a flaw. She's an imperfect Replica of Sora created from his leaked memories as a fail-safe in case both Sora and Roxas proved to be useless to Organization XIII's plans. And insert some other stuff here.

3. WISH FULFILLING FANTASY : As if. She doesn't share a papou fruit, pull a "kissing in the field" scene, or act as fan service. She's important to the hidden Org Xiii story/conspiracy that we never knew.

Edited September 22, 2012 by -iAD

[Sammi 63]

I agree that hating Xion because she "gets in the way of Axel-x-Roxas" is moronic. I definitely don't dislike her due to that because I'm not even a fan of the pairing. I merely find Xion to be annoying - that is something that can make people hate certain characters (e.g. there aren't many fans of Larxene, who's my favourite KH female, due to those who dislike her personality/attitude etc.).

 

Above all, everyone is entitled to their own opinion; and I won't insult Xion fans just because our opinions oppose each other's.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Sammi

[XIIISwords 1,059]

I clicked on this topic actually not knowing what a Xarmy Sue was, but assuming it had to do with Xion.

 

I will say that I agree with most of your points. While I like Xion as a character, she's nowhere near the top of my favorites (Roxas, Ventus, Aqua...). I can understand why some people call her a Mary Sue, but I like how you showed how they're not exactly right.

 

It was also a very well written article.

 

Oh, and the ~Cockblocking Roxas and Axel ~ made me lol. I hate it when people hate characters just because they get in the way of their ship.

Edited September 20, 2012 by XIIISwords

[ryudra27 14]

Days wouldn't be a game if it wasn't for Xion. Or at least it wouldn't be that good (story-wise I mean, gameplay-wise was......eeehhhh).

 

I think it all amounts to the idea that Roxas and Axel would be very different without Xion. Sure things might've ended up the same way without her (might've used very loosely here), but looking at the big picture she impacted Roxas and Axel in ways that leads to what's happening in the KH world now, and by that I mean DDD. Sure Roxas still had reasons to leave the Organization without Xion, but she made it so much more powerful, so much more emotional, that it's just hard to imagine how it would've happened without her. I mean, and I'm not hating here, but she was what pulled Roxas away from the Organization, away from Axel. She was the catalyst in Roxas's actions near the end of Days. Hell, you could go and say she was the catalyst to KH2, where Roxas eventually leaves the Organization and finds Sora and all that good fun epic stuff at the end of the game. Maybe she was put in to make Roxas's story and actions more relatable, interesting, or even sad.

 

Now, I love Days, and I love Xion, so I might be slightly biased, but I just find it very hard to imagine Roxas's story and Days in general without Xion. I think Square did a great job with Roxas's story, and most of it was thanks to Xion. I respect your opinion though, I do see where you're coming from.

 

And I mean come on, Xion had one of the saddest scenes in the entire series, how could you not love her and totally sympathize with her? Haha

[Renlover202 3]

I don't have to like xion for the fact that she didn't do much for me. I think what square is trying to do is trying to make xion and roxas look like tifa and cloud. If xion appears on every single game than what happends to namine? she just disappers because she was a "witch?"

[Ptolema 404]

How curious Xion is considered a Mary Sue...  I mean, she's not. She was made look like that so that there wouldn't be much speculation, I think. Kairi is more perfect than her (pure light, Sora likes her, everyone protects her, etc.) and she certainly doesn't have as much haters as Xion. It just doesn't make sense. So many discussions over Xion's status turn into a completely pointless verbal war! It's just plain irritating. You don't like her, fine. You like her, fine. I'm impartial, fine. You think that, deal with it. But some people just pop up thinking everyone else is wrong and that's just absurd. Absurd as in completely senseless. And the reasons, the reasons just make the thing more, more ridiculous... Xion isn't a Mary Sue. She has many characteristics of it, but truth speaking, she's practically the opposite. She was an artificial human even by Nobody standards. But that doesn't make her worse or better than other characters. It's not like she came out of a fan fiction to ruin people's love fantasies with the other characters... And I need to stop writing because I'm getting all angry and poetic.