KH3D Xehanort's Fatal Flaw? *spoilers*

[Gambler'sApprentice 131]

Master Xehanort's goal for Organization XIII was to create 13 empty vessels into which he could put his heart of pure darkness. Assuming for a moment Xehanort's heart truly is one of pure darkness, if you think back to the end of Birth by Sleep you have Master Xehanort confronting Terra who is enfused with Eraqus' light. They are all in either Xehanort or Terra's heart.

 

If it's Terra's heart Master Xehanort would have to either corrupt it or leave it to release his heart to fill his Organization. If he releases it we get Terra and Eraqus back, bringing the total of Keyblade wielders to 12 (Yen Sid, Master Eraqus, King Mickey, Terra, Ventus, Aqua, Sora, Riku, Kairi, Roxas, Xion, Lea) which is rather more than the 7 lights he needs and brings them almost even in numbers, rather than his advantage of nearly double Organization members.

 

If it's Xehanort's heart every vessel gets filled with all the Darkness of Xehanort and Terra, as well as all the light of Terra and Eraqus. Since any light prevents the vessels from being pure darknesses, he can't do this without creating a bunch of useless Xeroxes.

 

I have no doubt Xehanort is quite capable of outsmarting me in this matter, but I am at a loss as to how. Ideas?

[Caity 3,946]

All I can say is if they're planning on making it an even playing field, Namine could be the 13th. Since Roxas can wield a Keyblade due to being Sora's nobody, Namine logically should be the same for being Kairi's nobody.

 

I think no matter how many people are released from their imprisoned hearts, it still will only be 7 on 13.

[Gambler'sApprentice 131]

She could, but she hasn't been shone to wield a keyblade. I think it would be awesome, but it's best to focus on the people who have shown an ability to wield a Keyblade. Also Namine, unlike Roxas, hasn't shown any indication of having a heart. She may have grown one, but that isn't something we know for sure. And if there are more people fighting Kehanort who have Keyblades, even if they don't all count as being pure lights, he's making his job harder. His best Plan would probably be to kidnap Aqua (how he does that would be a mystery, I'm pretty sure she could take down the entire Organization if not all at once, at least one after another) and Kairi (yeah, that's not even hard) removing Aqua, Ven, and Kairi from the list of possible wielders, and Namine's knowledge of what's going on with Sora, as well as possibly the way to free Roxas and Xion. That would leave him with only 7 wielders, but neither Riku nor Terra qualify as pure lights.

[AnHeiressofaSOLDIER 358]

All I can say is if they're planning on making it an even playing field, Namine could be the 13th. Since Roxas can wield a Keyblade due to being Sora's nobody, Namine logically should be the same for being Kairi's nobody.

 

I think no matter how many people are released from their imprisoned hearts, it still will only be 7 on 13.

 

So you know, I've been thinking about that whole, "it could be an even match in the end" idea quite a lot, but never really analyzed it all until now. But you're right. I wonder if it will be 13 versus 13 in the end (and it probably will be what Nomura planned all along). I mean, Xehanort would have to get more Darknesses if that were to happen, but we do, in fact, have thirteen Light Keyblade wielders. They are:

 

1. Sora

2. Riku

3. Kairi.

4. Roxas

5. Axel/Lea

6. Xion

7. Ventus

8. Terra

9. Aqua

10. King Mickey

11. Master Eraqus (who most people forget to count)

12. Master Yen Sid (who I could see coming out of retirement to help in this clash)

13. Naminé (should she get a Keyblade, and I'm fairly certain she will).

 

So, yeah. It'll be interesting to see if it ends up being 7 vs. 13 or 13 vs. 13.

 

And you're right, Gambler's Apprentice. I think MX may have created his own inevitable downfall. Also, as we learned in KH: 3D, he never counted on Sora, so that's another thing that's tripped him up...

[Caity 3,946]

She could, but she hasn't been shone to wield a keyblade. I think it would be awesome, but it's best to focus on the people who have shown an ability to wield a Keyblade. Also Namine, unlike Roxas, hasn't shown any indication of having a heart. She may have grown one, but that isn't something we know for sure. And if there are more people fighting Kehanort who have Keyblades, even if they don't all count as being pure lights, he's making his job harder. His best Plan would probably be to kidnap Aqua (how he does that would be a mystery, I'm pretty sure she could take down the entire Organization if not all at once, at least one after another) and Kairi (yeah, that's not even hard) removing Aqua, Ven, and Kairi from the list of possible wielders, and Namine's knowledge of what's going on with Sora, as well as possibly the way to free Roxas and Xion. That would leave him with only 7 wielders, but neither Riku nor Terra qualify as pure lights.

 

Just cause Namine hasn't been shown to fight with a Keyblade yet doesn't mean she never will, we didn't even see Lea and his keyblade til the very end of DDD. Based on her powers she could have keyblades like "white witch (light based, magic high keyblade)", "Memory shapper(high defense, casts confuse, sleep and poison spells randomly while striking hits)", "Colours of the Rainbow"(based on her artistic talent - Balanced keyblade, or high in all aspects since there's 7 colours, 7 abilities?) - THIS AREN'T REAL, JUS

T ME FLESHING OUT MY IDEAS (don't want people quoting me taking me seriously thinking I know the things in the next game)

 

MX isn't one to plan ahead (does all his plans not normally fall through leading him to use his back up plan)

So I don't think he'll try kidnapping anyone (he doesn't even know Kairi's a guardian, it was only at the end of DDD that Yen Sid even became aware of her ability)

I think if he was going to stage something, it would be when they all go to Ven and try to release his heart from Sora, I could see him following them (with Aqua leading and unlocking the room) trying to jump in first before them

 

So you know, I've been thinking about that whole, "it could be an even match in the end" idea quite a lot, but never really analyzed it all until now. But you're right. I wonder if it will be 13 versus 13 in the end (and it probably will be what Nomura planned all along). I mean, Xehanort would have to get more Darknesses if that were to happen, but we do, in fact, have thirteen Light Keyblade wielders. They are:

 

1. Sora

2. Riku

3. Kairi.

4. Roxas

5. Axel/Lea

6. Xion

7. Ventus

8. Terra

9. Aqua

10. King Mickey

11. Master Eraqus (who most people forget to count)

12. Master Yen Sid (who I could see coming out of retirement to help in this clash)

13. Naminé (should she get a Keyblade, and I'm fairly certain she will).

 

So, yeah. It'll be interesting to see if it ends up being 7 vs. 13 or 13 vs. 13.

 

And you're right, Gambler's Apprentice. I think MX may have created his own inevitable downfall. Also, as we learned in KH: 3D, he never counted on Sora, so that's another thing that's tripped him up...

 

I'd like to see all 13 of them fight and be playable, but I don't think they would make it even given the whole "destiny" thing, I could see a number of them being support or back up for the main 7, but I can't really see they taking on the new Organization one-on-one in a fair battle, some of the 7 would probably kill multiple members in a spree.

[schlosserm 8]

I think the next game only Sora, Riku and Kairi will be playable, but who knows, maybe Sora and Riku will be captured (donkey kong) and we can use others (Lea or mickey)

[CJ Smith 123]

I think the next game only Sora, Riku and Kairi will be playable, but who knows, maybe Sora and Riku will be captured (donkey kong) and we can use others (Lea or mickey)

 

It would be cool to play as all of them

[HikariYami 354]

I would like to just play as Sora, Riku, Lea, and Aqua because that would be the most pivotal characters.

[AnHeiressofaSOLDIER 358]

@Caity Raindrop To be quite honest, I think it'll be 7 vs. 13, too. Though it would be cool if the teams were even, Nomura has said it'll be 7, and I don't see that changing. Still, I do see how people get the 13 versus 13 idea. And it is amazing that there are, ironically, 13 Lights (though most can't be used)...

 

But yeah, 7 vs. 13. Can't wait to see it! And actually, it'll be more epic that way, anyway. When, despite all odds, our characters win... Well, I'll know why I've been eagerly awaiting KH3 for so long. LOL.

 

I so can't wait, and to see who the Seven Lights are (but I believe it'll be Sora, Riku, Kairi, Lea, King Mickey, Ven, and Aqua). All I know, is this game will be great and everything KH should be!

 

Aaaaaaaaand I'll be rooting for Kairi to be somewhat playable in KH3 (at least as the tutorial character). After all this time, she deserves her time in the spotlight.

Edited September 5, 2012 by DenizenofTwilight

[Gambler'sApprentice 131]

Personally the best part about the 7 v. 13 approach in my opinion is having the Keyblade Wielders fighting some of the New Organization in pairs, specifically I want to see Aqua fight Xigbar and Luxord teamed up.

[KingdomKarts_:P 14]

I like this idea of xehanorts flaw. Remmber how xigbar acted near kh3d ending? I think it was his hearts reaction. Besides xehanort dies at kh3

[Smithee 327]

I like this idea of xehanorts flaw. Remmber how xigbar acted near kh3d ending? I think it was his hearts reaction. Besides xehanort dies at kh3

 

Death would be too merciful for MX. Some kind of eternal limbo would be more fitting.

[KingdomKarts_:P 14]

Death would be too merciful for MX. Some kind of eternal limbo would be more fitting.

 

But he could actually die and have hades control him

[woolfman1994 19]

She could, but she hasn't been shone to wield a keyblade. I think it would be awesome, but it's best to focus on the people who have shown an ability to wield a Keyblade. Also Namine, unlike Roxas, hasn't shown any indication of having a heart. She may have grown one, but that isn't something we know for sure. And if there are more people fighting Kehanort who have Keyblades, even if they don't all count as being pure lights, he's making his job harder. His best Plan would probably be to kidnap Aqua (how he does that would be a mystery, I'm pretty sure she could take down the entire Organization if not all at once, at least one after another) and Kairi (yeah, that's not even hard) removing Aqua, Ven, and Kairi from the list of possible wielders, and Namine's knowledge of what's going on with Sora, as well as possibly the way to free Roxas and Xion. That would leave him with only 7 wielders, but neither Riku nor Terra qualify as pure lights.

 

play KH3D again. Its 7 guardians of light, not pure light. And in the game mickey counted riku as one of the 7 lights so I don't know why you would question him. He wouldnt kidnap Aqua he needs her to create the keyblade so why would he make her a prisoner? Kairi is under Yen Sids careful eye I doubt she would be a target for Xehanort either. Namine is one of the people who are suffering so why would she have this role? Mickey mentioned Him, Sora, Riku, the other three who were missing T,A,V but its under debate weather Terra will be considered a light or a darkness.

Edited September 8, 2012 by woolfman1994

[Gambler'sApprentice 131]

You're right about the Guardians, but since altogether we could have 12 Keyblade wielders he'd want to limit that to make his life easier. Kidnapping Aqua eliminates a Keyblade Master, Ventus, and knowledge of Terra, along with possibly Eraqus, another Master. Kidnapping Kairi eliminates an unknown element (a Keyblade wielding Princess of Heart) and possibly Roxas and Xion, which if he's lucky would keep Lea distracted as he tries to find a way to rescue them. That leaves Mickey, Sora, Riku, Yen Sid, and Lea trying to stop him, with him able to bring three others to bring the total of definite wielders (since Yen Sid might not) to seven when he chooses, rather than having them all trying to stop him.

[Helios X 6]

Yes. There is a lot of debate going on on who the 7 lights and 13 darknesses are and how things in the next game will turn out. We are still doubtful about if kairi is a guardian and a PoH or just a PoH who possesses the power to wield a keyblade and being trained to defend herself. If Terra will be one of the lights or will stay on xehanort's side. And if Lea is one of the guardians or just a side keyblade wielder.

My opinions on Terra is that he could be restored without Xehanort losing him as one of his vessels, similar to how Sora's heartless was restored into Sora but of course in this case because of Kairi. It could also be that he changes side at the very end and screw things up for xehanort but i hope it will be after the x-blade is forge and that the x-blade will be destroyed because of the unblanced numbers of lights and darknesses. Or that he's heart merges with Lingering will and somehow be restored. It's a little weird Kairi would be a PoH and Guardian but if she is what's the problem I would like her to have a bigger role in the series. Lea, if Terra comes back, there will be no space for him in the 7 lights. So I think he is a side keyblade wielder.

Edited September 9, 2012 by geocenter

[Helios X 6]

On those others that possess a keyblade but are on the side of light they could either assist in the battle against xehanort or stay aside. And after all Xehanort is planning on making a keyblade war so he could chose 7 lights and the rest could be left behind in the war. That is if he suceeds in creating the x-blade and unlock kingdom hearts to unite the worlds so other keyblade wielders from those worlds would fight for the light within kingdom hearts. I believe that once everybody is rescued and the 7 guardians of light are about to confront the 13 seekers of darkness, Xehanort would suceed in forging the x-blade and bringing a second keyblade war. Perhaps the 20 pieces of the X-blade will fight in a seperate meta-physical dimension while the war takes place and something is going to happen that the X-blade will be destroyed interrupting the war and perhaps making the people fighting in it stop. I also think that people like Isa that are in the 13 seekers of darkness will be freed from xehanort's heart and return as themselves.

Edited September 9, 2012 by geocenter

[Helios X 6]

Not that I like the idea, but I think Roxas is going to be one of the guardians of light. I came to this conclusion because at the opening of KH 3D we can see Sora, Riku and King Mickey about to confront Master Xehanort in the Keyblade graveyard and as they reach him Aqua, Ventus, Terra and Roxas are brought back and when they reach him they are about to confront him. We don't see Kairi in this confrontation though it could be because she was not going to be revealed until the very ending. This could support that Kairi isn't a guardian just a princess of heart that can wield a keyblade. Hmmmm... but know that I think about it, i really don't kow who will occupy that place as a guardian.

Edited September 9, 2012 by geocenter

[Helios X 6]

But he could actually die and have hades control him

 

Well I do believe that death will be his fate. Once the darknesses are defeated the ones that are alternate versions will disapear into their respective places in time and the others who have been taken by his heart will be freed and restored as themselves. I imagine him in the ground, the seven guardians pointing their keyblades at him, realizing that he's seekers of darkness where destroyed and he's plans have been thwarted by the hero's of light for the final time. He will try to do something of his sleeve and be slain trying to get revange. Edited September 9, 2012 by geocenter

[TheDarkFollower 2]

Master Xehanort's goal for Organization XIII was to create 13 empty vessels into which he could put his heart of pure darkness. Assuming for a moment Xehanort's heart truly is one of pure darkness, if you think back to the end of Birth by Sleep you have Master Xehanort confronting Terra who is enfused with Eraqus' light. They are all in either Xehanort or Terra's heart.

 

If it's Terra's heart Master Xehanort would have to either corrupt it or leave it to release his heart to fill his Organization. If he releases it we get Terra and Eraqus back, bringing the total of Keyblade wielders to 12 (Yen Sid, Master Eraqus, King Mickey, Terra, Ventus, Aqua, Sora, Riku, Kairi, Roxas, Xion, Lea) which is rather more than the 7 lights he needs and brings them almost even in numbers, rather than his advantage of nearly double Organization members.

 

If it's Xehanort's heart every vessel gets filled with all the Darkness of Xehanort and Terra, as well as all the light of Terra and Eraqus. Since any light prevents the vessels from being pure darknesses, he can't do this without creating a bunch of useless Xeroxes.

 

I have no doubt Xehanort is quite capable of outsmarting me in this matter, but I am at a loss as to how. Ideas?

 

Neither the darnesses nor the lights have to be pure. This was his old plan.

[KingdomKarts_:P 14]

Well I do believe that death will be his fate. Once the darknesses are defeated the ones that are alternate versions will disapear into their respective places in time and the others who have been taken by his heart will be freed and restored as themselves. I imagine him in the ground, the seven guardians pointing their keyblades at him, realizing that he's seekers of darkness where destroyed and he's plans have been thwarted by the hero's of light for the final time. He will try to do something of his sleeve and be slain trying to get revange.

 

oh yeah smthin like that.. i only wonder now who will be his 13th darkness... couldnt be from the past, since YMX would have taken him

[Helios X 6]

oh yeah smthin like that.. i only wonder now who will be his 13th darkness... couldnt be from the past, since YMX would have taken him

 

Don't know either. I guess Xehanort will take over someone in Kingdom Hearts III from the present timeline. We'll have to wait till the moment comes. I was daydreaming that it may still be an alternate version of Sora, but I began to doubt so since YX went back to his timeline and won't come back until the 7 lights arrive at keyblade graveyard to confront MX. Edited September 9, 2012 by geocenter

[KingdomKarts_:P 14]

Don't know either. I guess Xehanort will take over someone in Kingdom Hearts III from the present timeline. We'll have to wait till the moment comes. I was daydreaming that it may still be an alternate version of Sora, but I began to doubt so since YX went back to his timeline and won't come back until the 7 lights arrive at keyblade graveyard to confront MX.

 

Only time will tell ( Pfft time is everywhere )

[Samantha Dominis 25]

Doesn't Xehanort still need a 13th dark heart, because he couldn't get Sora. Why doesn't he wait until Sora and co wake Ventus up and just pull Vanitas out?

[Smithee 327]

Well I do believe that death will be his fate. Once the darknesses are defeated the ones that are alternate versions will disapear into their respective places in time and the others who have been taken by his heart will be freed and restored as themselves. I imagine him in the ground, the seven guardians pointing their keyblades at him, realizing that he's seekers of darkness where destroyed and he's plans have been thwarted by the hero's of light for the final time. He will try to do something of his sleeve and be slain trying to get revange.

 

I'm pretty sure TAV would've welcomed death at the end of BBS, yet they never received it. Why, then, should MX get off so easy? He deserves to endure everything he put them through.