Thirteen seekers of darkness [SPOILERS]

[Road_To_Dawn 8]

"But some of the plotholes you think you are saying arent on my part . Some were due to some of the retconning DDD's plot did . Not my fault. Also if you read this whole thread there were others who agreed with me so that makes little sense to say no one else agreed. "

 

1) I didn't say you created the plotholes. I just said they existed and need to be explained

2) Must have missed where they agreed. However, I'm not alone in not following your line of thinking. For saying I've been rude, you sure weren't mild-mannered yourself when you assumed that I was ignoring what you were saying. I wasn't ignoring it, and I did in fact read it. I asked for clarity. That doesn't mean I can't read or am ignoring what you're saying. It means I'd like you to present your theory in a different manner.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Road_To_Dawn

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

"But some of the plotholes you think you are saying arent on my part . Some were due to some of the retconning DDD's plot did . Not my fault. Also if you read this whole thread there were others who agreed with me so that makes little sense to say no one else agreed. "

 

1) I didn't say you created the plotholes. I just said they existed and need to be explained

2) Must have missed where they agreed. However, I'm not alone in not following your line of thinking. For saying I've been rude, you sure weren't mild-mannered yourself when you assumed that I was ignoring what you were saying. I wasn't ignoring it, and I did in fact read it. I asked for clarity. That doesn't mean I can't read or am ignoring what you're saying. It means I'd like you to present your theory in a different manner.

 

But when you dont understand what ive said clearly so many times then tell ME its my fault you dont understand ,thats rude . When you are rude, you get rude responses back. There are some who agree and some who disagree.. Just bc there are some who disagree doesnt make me wrong .There are retcons in this story clearly . DDD retconned alot of things from previous games due to not being planned out or even written till years after the other games were released. It does leave questions.

[Road_To_Dawn 8]

"But when you dont understand what ive said clearly so many times then tell ME its my fault you dont understand ,thats rude . "

 

All you did was repeat what you had already said. You didn't change how you presented your point.

 

"Just bc there are some who disagree doesnt make me wrong "

 

Didn't say it made you wrong. I said it was evidence that you could be a little more concise in the presentation of your theory.

 

"There are retcons in this story clearly . DDD retconned alot of things from previous games due to not being planned out or even written till years after the other games were released. It does leave questions. "

 

Which is all I've been saying, man. Most of this is playing devil's advocate so that you can try to reason through them and see if you can fill them yourself (since your theory is pretty sound, although it lacks some detail).

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

"But when you dont understand what ive said clearly so many times then tell ME its my fault you dont understand ,thats rude . "

 

All you did was repeat what you had already said. You didn't change how you presented your point.

 

"Just bc there are some who disagree doesnt make me wrong "

 

Didn't say it made you wrong. I said it was evidence that you could be a little more concise in the presentation of your theory.

 

"There are retcons in this story clearly . DDD retconned alot of things from previous games due to not being planned out or even written till years after the other games were released. It does leave questions. "

 

Which is all I've been saying, man. Most of this is playing devil's advocate so that you can try to reason through them and see if you can fill them yourself (since your theory is pretty sound, although it lacks some detail).

 

If im repeating myself its bc i dont get what part you are questioning . If someone else disagrees it doesnt mean im not concise. It just means that in their perspective they see it differently .You can be clear as day and they still think otherwise Example:People STILL to this day dont get that Roxas had Vens heart .And it was CONFIRMED .lol. Trying to say im not concise when ive said detail after detail why is rather silly imo. Moving on..

 

 

Part of peoples confusion is the retconning and complicated plot that hasnt been addressed yet .If i didnt believe in what i was saying i wouldnt bother to debate this this long

[Road_To_Dawn 8]

Anyway, moving on since we've now beaten this to death....let's get back to the original topic. If your theory is correct, and being defeated/being a traitor doesn't eliminate one from being a vessel, then we're left with some very interesting options:

 

1) Any of the original 12 organization members (that aren't Xemnas, Xigbar, or Saix) could still be vessels.

2) Terra could exist as a vessel in multiple forms (Terranort, AX). However, if he's saved and is a light, do any of these go away (I think not, but just throwing it out there).

3) Lea could still be a vessel, especially since it is extremely plausible that Xehanort's piece of heart went into Lea as he guarded Sora in Where Nothing Gathers.

4) Maleficent could be a vessel. She obviously has succumbed to the darkness, she's strong (yet weak at the same time).

5) Characters not yet introduced or explained could be vessels.

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

1) I think the last 4 are still highly probable.( Demyx is debateble tho)

2)Yes i agree this is possible . Its also possible to be both

3) honestly I dont think Lea is . I think him being around Sora and Roxas helped him overcome it . His budding heart was nurtured and he actually even cried. We didnt see this in Xigbar or Saix. Especially Saix.. He got progressively worse as he became more Xehanort. The apprentices that were mentioned earlier probably didnt have enough darkness to help them become successful vessels. If lea wasnt a successful vessel as a nobody , now that he has a heart it would be even less likely.. Thats even if he didnt successfully block the piece of heart. He did have chackrams and fire to incinerate it. I also think he would need more darkness just like they needed Sora to be filled with darkness for this to work ..Plus, i think Nomuras setting up a huge dramatic showdown in KH3 with Isa vs Lea.

4 ) maybe .

5) Definitely but Nomura did say there were many familiar faces in the new organization too

[Sukie87 20]

He said they were all supposed to be implying they were all attempted . He had no idea which ones were gonna fail bc he couldnt see who would fail and who who succeed .He could only say he knew some WOULD fail and some WOULDNT . What do you think that says ? The only way to find out was to implant all of them .Why the heck do you think it was the ORGANIZATION 13....13 ..Ring a bell?

 

Oh jeez just reading ur arguements is just funny but i agree with you it makes sense.

[NamineRose 28]

Maybe Ven could even be a candidate. He has been sleeping for 12 years now without a heart inside his body and is only now starting to get it back slowly. With his darkness back that could continue to help Master Xehanort take over Ven. Not to mention that Xemnas was pretty bent on trying to find him in Castle Oblivion, maybe as a prospective vessel at least.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Oh jeez just reading ur arguements is just funny but i agree with you it makes sense.

 

You don't know the half of it buddy lol.

[Sukie87 20]

im starting to fit

You don't know the half of it buddy lol.

 

im starting to fit the pieces to see if it makes sense okay? gimme a break...............lol

[HarLea Quinn 26,501]

im starting to fit

im starting to fit the pieces to see if it makes sense okay? gimme a break...............lol

 

 

LOL He was agreeing with you not arguing against you

[Sukie87 20]

LOL He was agreeing with you not arguing against you

 

rite.....................i knew tht!

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

LOL He was agreeing with you not arguing against you

 

This lol

 

rite.....................i knew tht!

 

Idk lol jk

[Kirux 1,224]

I found this thread while searching the google for answers to this exact question, and I find it both thought provoking and amusing. By the way, this may be lengthy due to the fact that I have no one else to talk about KH around me, so all my thoughts have been building up for awhile. If it's too long, I'm really sorry! Also, even though it's safe to say that this thread itself is one huge spoiler, this comment does hold spoilers, so please don't read if you haven't finished the game!

 

There are a few things that I noticed, as did a lot of people here, that make it very hard to try and figure out who is and isn't under one of those hoods. Firstly; I find Terra's, Ven's, and Aqua's unknown status and inclusion into the seven guardians of light to be very bothersome. From the sounds of it, everyone pretty much assume's Terra is removed from this list. Yet, Mickey is pretty adamant about saving him, and if Aqua and Ven ever get back they will be, too. If we take how much planning MX does, as proven in DreamDrop, don't you think he would have made a back up plan for this as well? But, there's another thing even beyond that that has me concerned about Terra. The fact that, without any evidence to prove otherwise, I am under the assumption that Terra-Xehanort is the base person from which AnsemSoD and Xemnas were created. (This also begs into question about whether or not Terra and Eraquis had their own nobodies and heartless, or if the three are still intermingled between AnsemSoD and Xemnas) I personally, due to how much can be questioned about Terra, wouldn't truly put him into either list as himself as of yet.

 

I have no clue how Aqua is going to be rescued from the darkness, but she will be needed before Ven can be rescued to transform CO back into the Land of Departure.

 

I was honestly disappointed that Dream Drop didn't further delve into the rescuing of either Aqua or Ventus, until I realised the implications of Riku having dream eater powers. If we can assume that he retains those powers, and can use them on people other than Sora, I think that using a combination of dream diving and being able to dive into Sora's heart, Riku is going to retrieve Ven's heart from Sora's. Then again, Ansem the Wise did state that it seems Sora has the power to bring people back who has a connection to him in his heart, so maybe Sora will become aware of Ventus being inside him. What will be interesting, however; is the handling of Vanitas. His appearance with YMX in DreamDrop was brief and intersting. I have always wonder how that is going to play out; If Sora has Ven's heart inside him, that means he has Vanitas as well. Could Vanitas have escaped when Sora unlocked his own heart in KHI? If so we didn't we see him until just now? Roxas takes the appearance of Ven as Sora's nobody, and I like to think Roxas himself actually held Ven's heart within him, which is why he felt so many things during his story. Either way, Vanitas is assured to come back with Ven, whether it's as a different person or within Ven I cannot say. I do not think that Ven himself will side with MX unless Vantias has control over him, and I look forward to knowing what happens because Ven is one of my favourite characters. (I also had a thought that maybe Vanitas could be an explanation as to what caused Anti Sora in KHII? Don't ask me about the how, just an odd thought that floated into my mind.)

 

I also do not think that any of the other original Organization members are part of the True Seekers club, based mostly on the assumption that yellow eyes equals a carrier of MX's heart. I would love to see more Luxord action, he was definitely my favourite member, however; if I ever have to hear Demyx shout DANCE WATER DANCE! one more time in my life I might go all She-Hulk and have to bust some heads. Braig was a given, he has always been a carrier of MX, chronologically speaking. I'm not sure when Isa became a vessel, but I am going to place my bets on somewhere during 358/2 Days due to the cutscene with Axel saying he's really changed recently. I do really want to know why they were both heading to Ansem the Wise's castle in BBS, though. I also strongly believe that both the Braig and Isa in Dream Drop were the humans after recompleting, this is based solely on the reactions of Braig during Sora's speech in TWTNW and Lea calling Isa, well Isa, and not Saix.

 

I don't see Lea as being a traitor, all though he did seem a bit standoffish in the cutscenes with Sora and Riku, but that's to be expected from someone who just blooped back into existence and has been thrown into a room filled by a group of really close friends whom he previously fought against. I would also think that being near Sora would cause some major heartache over not being able to see his best friend ever again. (Unless Sora uses his heart powers to bring Roxas back, which I hope so...so hard. I love me some Roxas and really want to see a happy ending for him.)

 

I, too, would love to see some FF characters in those hooded robes, but I find that they all have such strong personalities of their own that they probably wouldn't make very good vessels. Why would someone like Sephiroth or, for some reason the only person that comes to mind is Kefka (and all though that is a hillarious picture in my head, Kefka waltzing around in an Organization robe being all psychotic and Kefka-y), who yes are inherently dark, side with someone like MX when they can, and on Kefka's part have, been able to destroy the world or plunge it into darkness themselves.

 

Also, I wouldn't doubt if the puppet/replicant projects were used to make MX clones. Xion as pretty successful if it hadn't been for that meddlesome Riku and that Namine, too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those hoods dropped and it was portraited AS Xion. that'd be cool, though unlikely seeing as she's been portaited as inside of Sora's heart along with Roxas and Ven.

 

The guardians of light are a lot easier to pin down; Sora, Master Riku (That's so awesome, good for him!), Mickey, Master Aqua, Ventus, Lea, and (sigh) Kairi. I'm not even going to go into how much Kairi annoys me, and about how Dream Drop was the most perfect game until that Secret Ending (which did nothing for me). But I will say that; If Yen Sid is worried about MX going after the princesses of heart, why would he let her go out into the fray? Even if she can wield a keyblade, you'd think she'd be too important. However; maybe this will make her more likable and less of an annoying person that the story seems to forget more times than not. (How many times since KHI has she been truly relevant to the plot and not just kind of thrown in there just to let us know that SE didn't forget about her, and neither can we.) I want to like her, I really do, but she just so useless as of right now besides being able to manifest a keyblade. Hopefully she'll pull an Elizabeth Swan and become super awesome in the third part. If not and we either have to see a lot of her, or use her, in KHIII it will be painful and annoying for me. If there's some Lea (hopefully with a new outfit, that black coat is so last season) control action; that'd be super sweet and enough to counter balance it for me.

 

Well, that's about all I gotta say about that. Sorry it was so long and I hope that there was at least some sort of interesting new outlook on the situation somewhere in there for you.

 

~Kirux

Edited August 11, 2012 by Kirux