Why the 'friendzone' is bs

[Emo/Yami 37]

or maybe she just (spoiler warning!!) doesn't have feelings for the other guy.

 

 

@OP: this whole concept is pretty much how I got into my last relationship. one of my close friends had had a crush on me for a while, and kept buying me expensive things even when I said no, and kept playing the "I'm just a nice guy why do all of the girls i like date asshole le sobbu" card. and when I broke up with him, some of our mutual friends even acted like I somehow did something wrong, and that I was a horrible person for not having feelings for him.

 

Man, you just spoiled Guilt Tripping for me!

 

On a more serious note: That entire situation there is very common in my school

[baylaust 2,531]

So I've been looking at this thread for about 15 minutes, seeing valid points for both sides, and some points I don't agree with on both sides. I've determined that if I post a longer explaination of these points and my full opinion, it will be impossible to avoid offending somebody, so I'll just say this:

 

When the phrase "friendzone" is used, everybody loses.

Edited April 7, 2012 by baylaust

[legendkiller222 22]

This is always a generalization that guys who are rejected hate girls who friendzone them. Girls say "oh they hate women", no they probably just hate YOU because you handled it terribly. A girl can friendzone a guy and it can go well or terribly depending on how the girl tells the guy or what she lets happen before she tells him how she feels. If a girl leads the guy on and he is then rejected he will feel hurt. Sometimes the guy takes it the wrong way, but its hard to not feel like hating that person at the moment you hear that you basically aren't good enough for them. Usually nice guys get the short end of the stick because they aren't as aggressive as douches are and end up just being the shoulder to cry on when things go bad. Girls are the same exact way when being rejected by guys. They talk sh*t on guys that reject them just like guys do the same about the girls that reject them.

[Godot 513]

Sometimes the guy takes it the wrong way, but its hard to not feel like hating that person at the moment you hear that you basically aren't good enough for them.

 

no. you don't get it.

a girl not liking you =/= you not being "good enough" for her. there is nothing wrong with her just because she doesn't have feelings for you.

get your self-centered head out of your ass.

[RobertOrri 202]

I was in what you would call a friendzone, I told her I liked her, she didn't like me back.

 

Am I mad at her? Do I blame her? The answer is NO, and why should I?

 

It's not her fault she doesn't like me.

[legendkiller222 22]

no. you don't get it.

a girl not liking you =/= you not being "good enough" for her. there is nothing wrong with her just because she doesn't have feelings for you.

get your self-centered head out of your ass.

 

I never said there is anything wrong with a girl who chooses not to like someone, I'm just stating the truth. If a girl doesn't like a guy or a guy doesn't like a girl or guy doesn't like another guy or girl doesn't like another girl it means that they think that person isn't good enough for them. There is no way to argue that. It's put in nicer terms, but its the truth. If you like someone it means you want them and if they don't want you it is because they don't view you as good enough for them or "right" for them which is saying you don't have qualities they want, it still means you aren't good enough for them in their eyes. That can be hurtful for anyone. I can see why a guy would act hateful. It's natural to be upset and angry after being rejected by anyone for anything. When someone is revealing feelings for you it depends on how you react and that sets the whole thing in motion. Sometimes a girl can handle it well and still the guy gets mad, but its fine to and they have a right to because they are being told that they do not have what that person wants which is in other words being told they aren't good enough for them.

 

This is all on an individual level and needs to stop being distorted into a whole attack on women because it truly isn't. There are people who just handle being rejected not so well and that is fine and there are people that handle telling the person who likes them that they don't harbor the same feelings not so well.

[Koko 3,944]

I never said there is anything wrong with a girl who chooses not to like someone, I'm just stating the truth. If a girl doesn't like a guy or a guy doesn't like a girl or guy doesn't like another guy or girl doesn't like another girl it means that they think that person isn't good enough for them. There is no way to argue that. It's put in nicer terms, but its the truth. If you like someone it means you want them and if they don't want you it is because they don't view you as good enough for them or "right" for them which is saying you don't have qualities they want, it still means you aren't good enough for them in their eyes. That can be hurtful for anyone. I can see why a guy would act hateful. It's natural to be upset and angry after being rejected by anyone for anything. When someone is revealing feelings for you it depends on how you react and that sets the whole thing in motion. Sometimes a girl can handle it well and still the guy gets mad, but its fine to and they have a right to because they are being told that they do not have what that person wants which is in other words being told they aren't good enough for them.

 

This is all on an individual level and needs to stop being distorted into a whole attack on women because it truly isn't. There are people who just handle being rejected not so well and that is fine and there are people that handle telling the person who likes them that they don't harbor the same feelings not so well.

 

you are missing the point lmao

it's not how it's handled because a girl can handle it perfectly fine while the guy is the one getting mad for no reason

or a girl can handle it like shit and the guy gets mad

either way

no matter how a girl handles it

if the guy gets pissed off, it's her fault, whether the guy is being rational or not

that is why it's sexist

and it has nothing to do with if the guy is good enough for the girl or not

like madotsuki said, stop being self centered

it's not about the guy all the time

and this is how your taking it

saying that being friendzoned is like being told you're not good enough for them is extremely self centered and you arent even acknowledging why the girl rejected you

you're automatically assuming you're not good enough

and you know how some people take that?

they take it as the girl being a snobby bitch who thinks she's better than anyone

now i said some, not all

but it's true

NO MATTER HOW YOU SEE IT

IF A GIRL FRIENDZONES A GUY, IT'S HER FAULT TO THE OUTSIDERS AND SOMETIMES THE GUY

IF A GUY FRIENDZONES A GIRL, IT'S HER FAULT TO THE OUTSIDERS AND SOMETIMES THE GUY

 

THE REASON FRIENDZONING IS SEXIST IS BECAUSE YOU ARE BLAMING THE GIRL MOST OF THE TIME

 

really guys, man up and accept that this term is sexist and you need to stop firetrucking using it

even if you dont see it as negative, it is, and if you're not an asshole who acts this way, good for you, now stop using the term, grow up and move on.

 

you wanna know the truth? this society firetrucking hates women

when a woman gets raped, she is asked if she was drunk. she is asked if she was wearing revealing clothing. she is asked if she led the man on in anyway. she asked all sorts of questions that put the blame on her.

when a woman is embracing of her sexuality, she is called a slut and she is shamed but this hardly happens to men.

when a woman gets pregnant, everyone is expecting her to carry the baby whether she wants to or not and if she doesn't, she is seen as a monster because she decided to choose what she wanted to do with her body.

women are seen as a prize to many men, i mean in cartoons and comics and movies, the guy always gets the girl as sort of a reward doesn't he?

after saving her life a couple of times, it's natural she falls for him right? it's like his reward to saving her and being nice to her.

this is where the sexism of friendzoning comes up

a guy doesn't get the reward he wants, the reward he was promised for being nice and good to a girl and he's mad

he's mad that a girl can make her own decisions

 

i am in no way saying all guys are like this

but it happens

and that's why it's wrong

 

 

honestly the only reason anyone should get worked up about this is if they have acted this way and have blamed a girl for friendzoning them and they're scared that a girl is actually calling them out for their wrong doings.

 

 

 

 

I was in what you would call a friendzone, I told her I liked her, she didn't like me back.

 

Am I mad at her? Do I blame her? The answer is NO, and why should I?

 

It's not her fault she doesn't like me.

 

this is how it should be

but the way it is interpreted in society and the negative connotations behind a girl friendzoning a guy (and it still being her fault) is what makes it bad.

[Naught 44]

I am a guy, and I am gonna start off by saying this: I agree with most of Koko's points.

 

One point I don't agree on, however, is that friendzoning is sexist.

THE REASON FRIENDZONING IS SEXIST IS BECAUSE YOU ARE BLAMING THE GIRL MOST OF THE TIME

 

really guys, man up and accept that this term is sexist and you need to stop firetrucking using it

even if you dont see it as negative, it is, and if you're not an asshole who acts this way, good for you, now stop using the term, grow up and move on.

 

I think it all has to do with opinion and context. For example, the school I go to is roughly 50-50 boys and girls, and I try to have a healthy relationship with both guys and girls. But when it comes to friendzoning, I would say that in my experiences, girls and guys are as bad as each other.

 

I have had guys friendzone girls, and the girls have all gone around gossiping that he is a man-whore and saying other things that ruin his reputation.

At the same time I have had guys friendzone girls, and the girls have just supported each other and there was no rudeness involved.

I have seen the same for the reverse.

I have had girls friendzone guys, and the guys have said that the girls are sluts and whores.

And at the same time I have seen girls friendzone guys, and the guys have just stuck be each other and pulled through it, with no derogatory terms being used against girls.

 

So I think it all depends about context. It is probably different for you, but this is what it is like where I live.

 

Also just because in most cases the girl is blamed, doesn't mean it is sexist.

To use an extreme example, if, on a similar large scale, a majority of people decided they wanted to jump off cliffs and commit suicide, does that mean that committing suicide is the right thing to do?

Just because a majority is involved, doesn't mean that a thing is wrong or right, sexist or not sexist.

 

I don't think that friendzoning is sexist, I just think that what happens because of friendzoning is sexist.

Because I have seen it first hand for both guys and girls. Friendzoning has sometimes caused sexism towards girls, it has sometimes caused sexism towards guys, and it has sometimes caused no sexism whatsoever.

 

So, I think that people should stop getting blamed and verbally abused because of friendzoning, whether you be a guy or a girl, because it happens to both sides. There will be people who don't like you, deal with it and move on, just don't deal with it the wrong way.

[legendkiller222 22]

you are missing the point lmao

it's not how it's handled because a girl can handle it perfectly fine while the guy is the one getting mad for no reason

or a girl can handle it like shit and the guy gets mad

either way

no matter how a girl handles it

if the guy gets pissed off, it's her fault, whether the guy is being rational or not

that is why it's sexist

and it has nothing to do with if the guy is good enough for the girl or not

like madotsuki said, stop being self centered

it's not about the guy all the time

and this is how your taking it

saying that being friendzoned is like being told you're not good enough for them is extremely self centered and you arent even acknowledging why the girl rejected you

you're automatically assuming you're not good enough

and you know how some people take that?

they take it as the girl being a snobby bitch who thinks she's better than anyone

now i said some, not all

but it's true

NO MATTER HOW YOU SEE IT

IF A GIRL FRIENDZONES A GUY, IT'S HER FAULT TO THE OUTSIDERS AND SOMETIMES THE GUY

IF A GUY FRIENDZONES A GIRL, IT'S HER FAULT TO THE OUTSIDERS AND SOMETIMES THE GUY

 

THE REASON FRIENDZONING IS SEXIST IS BECAUSE YOU ARE BLAMING THE GIRL MOST OF THE TIME

 

really guys, man up and accept that this term is sexist and you need to stop firetrucking using it

even if you dont see it as negative, it is, and if you're not an asshole who acts this way, good for you, now stop using the term, grow up and move on.

 

you wanna know the truth? this society firetrucking hates women

when a woman gets raped, she is asked if she was drunk. she is asked if she was wearing revealing clothing. she is asked if she led the man on in anyway. she asked all sorts of questions that put the blame on her.

when a woman is embracing of her sexuality, she is called a slut and she is shamed but this hardly happens to men.

when a woman gets pregnant, everyone is expecting her to carry the baby whether she wants to or not and if she doesn't, she is seen as a monster because she decided to choose what she wanted to do with her body.

women are seen as a prize to many men, i mean in cartoons and comics and movies, the guy always gets the girl as sort of a reward doesn't he?

after saving her life a couple of times, it's natural she falls for him right? it's like his reward to saving her and being nice to her.

this is where the sexism of friendzoning comes up

a guy doesn't get the reward he wants, the reward he was promised for being nice and good to a girl and he's mad

he's mad that a girl can make her own decisions

 

i am in no way saying all guys are like this

but it happens

and that's why it's wrong

 

 

honestly the only reason anyone should get worked up about this is if they have acted this way and have blamed a girl for friendzoning them and they're scared that a girl is actually calling them out for their wrong doings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is how it should be

but the way it is interpreted in society and the negative connotations behind a girl friendzoning a guy (and it still being her fault) is what makes it bad.

 

That is not true that friendzone is a sexist term. Because both people can do it. A guy can friendzone a girl. The point being is that humans have human emotions and part of being human can be acting irrational or getting mad that someone rejected you. However, the term friendzone is perfectly fine because it does not refer to a woman or a man. I don't view it as the girl's fault if the guy handles it bad and the girl told him nicely. But its understandable to be angry at first. People feel hurt when the person they like does not feel the same way. Plus girls feel the same way, unless now girls have evolved past emotions that every human has had since the beginning of time. Being angry at someone for not liking you is acceptable for a limited amount of time, but it is a healthy human emotion. It isn't selfish to feel bad. It's called being human.

 

I feel like not in this day and age when the word "friendzone" cannot be used we are living in this sheltered environment that neglects the fact that we as humans act irrational and have emotions. It may not be right to have hate towards a person who doesn't like you, but everybody does it. It doesn't last forever (or shouldn't).

If the situation directly involves you, it is not being self-centered to think about it in terms of yourself. People do this with everything. Your parents say no to something and you take it personally. Your teacher calls you out because you are talking in class. Your boss yells at you at work. It's perfectly normal and healthy for a human to look inward in a situation like this.

 

Also you bring up issues that have to do women that have nothing to do with this argument. Women being expected to carry a child is not the reason friendzoning is sexist or not sexist, the same goes with rape. Those are separate issues that you are tying into sexism, and are only valid discussing sexism, but not if friendzoning is sexist.

 

And again this is all experience based. The original post had no research done it was just her experience which may not be the norm. However, nice guys that become jerks aren't really jerks sometimes they get pushed to be a jerk. People have emotions and they have limits to how nice they will be and how much they are willing to put up with stuff that upsets them.

Edited April 9, 2012 by legendkiller222

[Koko 3,944]

That is not true that friendzone is a sexist term. Because both people can do it. A guy can friendzone a girl.

 

did everything i typed go over your head

yes a guy can friend zone a girl

guess what, according to society, it's still her fault for being clingy.

 

The point being is that humans have human emotions and part of being human can be acting irrational or getting mad that someone rejected you. However, the term friendzone is perfectly fine because it does not refer to a woman or a man.

 

that last sentence is where you are wrong. it's not fine just because both men and women say it. is the n word not a racist term because black and white people use it? of course it's a firetrucking racist term. you can't deny that. excuse me for my language, but by your logic, that is what you're saying.

 

I don't view it as the girl's fault if the guy handles it bad and the girl told him nicely. But its understandable to be angry at first. People feel hurt when the person they like does not feel the same way. Plus girls feel the same way, unless now girls have evolved past emotions that every human has had since the beginning of time. Being angry at someone for not liking you is acceptable for a limited amount of time, but it is a healthy human emotion. It isn't selfish to feel bad. It's called being human.

 

of course you can feel bad

i never said you couldnt

it's when you act like you deserved something and you make the girl feel like shit is when it becomes bad

and while you dont view it as the girls' fault, many do.

 

I feel like not in this day and age when the word "friendzone" cannot be used we are living in this sheltered environment that neglects the fact that we as humans act irrational and have emotions. It may not be right to have hate towards a person who doesn't like you, but everybody does it. It doesn't last forever (or shouldn't).

If the situation directly involves you, it is not being self-centered to think about it in terms of yourself. People do this with everything. Your parents say no to something and you take it personally. Your teacher calls you out because you are talking in class. Your boss yells at you at work. It's perfectly normal and healthy for a human to look inward in a situation like this.

 

i agree

but the point is

you don't make someone feel like shit

you don't belittle someone's choice

just because YOU FEEL LIKE SHIT

 

Also you bring up issues that have to do women that have nothing to do with this argument. Women being expected to carry a child is not the reason friendzoning is sexist or not sexist, the same goes with rape. Those are separate issues that you are tying into sexism, and are only valid discussing sexism, but not if friendzoning is sexist.

 

i was simply stating the truth, which you wanted

and i never said they had to do anything with friendzoning

theyre just some of the attacks on women

and friendzoning is another, more subtle attack

 

And again this is all experience based. The original post had no research done it was just her experience which may not be the norm. However, nice guys that become jerks aren't really jerks sometimes they get pushed to be a jerk. People have emotions and they have limits to how nice they will be and how much they are willing to put up with stuff that upsets them.

 

it doesnt firetrucking matter if it's experienced based

let's go back to racism

only minorities experienced racism

it is experienced based

it is what they went through

 

today racism still exists

if a black person told you a story about how something is racist, BASING IT ON MANY THINGS NOT JUST EXPERIENCE, would you shrug it off and say 'it's not racist lol it's just your experienced'

no

 

and yes people have limits

but when someone tells you to stop

you should be smart enough to stop

 

and that's what i'm telling all of the internalized misogynists

STOP

[shadowblade 31]

Everyone calm the firetruck down.Look if a girl(or guy sees you as only a friend)it doesnt mean you are friendzoned.I do agree with koko though it is bs. But heres the thing;its up to the the two people in question. Me and Alex are unfortunately just friends today but who knows maybe she'll dump her guy and then fall for me.It doesnt mean im friendzoned,it just means she don't see me that way. and for those of you who are probably thinking shes a slut bite your firetrucking tounge. We're not on the greatest terms but we're still great friends and if thats how it has to stay fine then im happy she found her soulmate.but anyway the friendzone is teenage bs they drive into your head in high school once you get older you'll stop worrying about that garbage.

[Tom 437]

What a clusterfiretruck. Koko, you sure love your controversial topics discuss, because we got an order of butthurt here. Just when I thought I could play dead on this site.

 

Meh, I guess I'll leave a response here, but then again I'll probably have to come back because someone thinks I'm an arrogant punk and tries to argue with bullshit responses because you know AN OPINION IS TOO MUCH TO HANDLE HINT HINT.

 

Ah ok. So friendzoning. A coined term often used too many times. Usually best described with girls trying to find boyfriends and her guy friends trying to date her, but she rejects him and just wants to stay friends, thus the friendzone. I know, you don't say.

 

But onto my main point. If girls want to friendzone guys for whatever reason....then so be it. Obviously she isn't friendzoning guys for no reason. If she feels nothing for the person who wants to date her, then she isn't going to date him. Why force yourself to date someone you're not interested in? I think that was common knowledge, but I didn't think many people were too firetrucking stupid to comprehend that, or I don't understand humans anymore.

 

Sure I get it, it's pretty ridiculous when a girl who has a lot of things in common with the guy and yet still friendzones him. And yeah it does seem silly that she goes off with asshats and people who will probably use her for his personal gains, and ignores the nice guy. But that's her choice. She is a person that's you know, DIFFERENT. She isn't going to have the same expectations as you. She may not only be of a different gender, but she has a different way of thinking.

 

If she doesn't like you, plain and simple. Don't make her out to be a slut. I mean, weren't you two friends before the whole friendzoning? What happened there? Decided that her titties meant more to you than her what she truly is? Come on now.

 

I think too many people don't get it. You know that it's not just girls who friendzone guys right? There are guys that can friendzone girls too. It's like rape. Girls can rape guys too, it isn't a one way ticket. I'm already in the process of friendzoning my ex, who will not stop clinging onto me, and let me find girls that I personally want to date. I did have feelings for her, but now I don't, especially after she tried to cheat on me before. And she has to accept it. Has she? Nope.

 

Think about people in your lifetime. Have any of you guys have friendzoned ANYBODY? You probably did, but you didn't realize it, did you? UGH THAT GIRL IS SO ICKY I DONT WANT TO DATE HER, BUT HEY WE CAN STILL BE FRIENDS, I SUPPOSE. Hmmmm, I seen it before.

 

The term friendzone isn't technically sexiest. But it's what you people making it out of to be. If all you're thinking of it as the girl rejects a nice guy and goes with an asshat, then of course it's going to be sexiest because you don't see the other side of this whole friendzone phenomena. Basically...it can happen to anyone, but when you use it to target a specific gender, then you're just an idiot.

 

Yeah I think that's all I got to say, for now.I can argue more points, but I believe this is sufficient.

 

Also, drop the racism. Stop trying to mix racism and sexism together. You're creating more conversational shit that isn't relating to the true topic. Quite frankly, if you're going to argue a good point, at least don't look like a douchebag doing it.

[Koko 3,944]

I agree with you on a lot of points Tom, but the reason it is sexist because there is going to be connotation that girl friendzones a guy, she's a bitch/slut/etc. And it is used to shame the girl for saying no because god forbid she says no. Just like god forbid she says yes.

that's why it's sexist

I understand not everyone thinks that way

I understand not everyone acts that way

The point is, that there are people that do and continuing to use the term as if it's not something wrong is just allowing them to do so as well, at least the way I see it.

 

 

And the reason that I brought up racism was because legendkillers argument that 'both genders use it' was completely flawed and I was using it to back up my point.

[legendkiller222 22]

did everything i typed go over your head

yes a guy can friend zone a girl

guess what, according to society, it's still her fault for being clingy.

 

[/size][/font]

 

that last sentence is where you are wrong. it's not fine just because both men and women say it. is the n word not a racist term because black and white people use it? of course it's a firetrucking racist term. you can't deny that. excuse me for my language, but by your logic, that is what you're saying.

 

[/size][/font]

 

of course you can feel bad

i never said you couldnt

it's when you act like you deserved something and you make the girl feel like shit is when it becomes bad

and while you dont view it as the girls' fault, many do.

 

[/size][/font]

 

i agree

but the point is

you don't make someone feel like shit

you don't belittle someone's choice

just because YOU FEEL LIKE SHIT

 

 

i was simply stating the truth, which you wanted

and i never said they had to do anything with friendzoning

theyre just some of the attacks on women

and friendzoning is another, more subtle attack

 

 

 

it doesnt firetrucking matter if it's experienced based

let's go back to racism

only minorities experienced racism

it is experienced based

it is what they went through

 

today racism still exists

if a black person told you a story about how something is racist, BASING IT ON MANY THINGS NOT JUST EXPERIENCE, would you shrug it off and say 'it's not racist lol it's just your experienced'

no

 

and yes people have limits

but when someone tells you to stop

you should be smart enough to stop

 

and that's what i'm telling all of the internalized misogynists

STOP

 

 

Alright I have been as polite as possible, but you are being so immature and just an angsty teen, who really has yet to even understand how the world works (That is for being so impolite when I am only trying to let you understand that there are a few things that can be disagreed with and that you cannot generalize a segment of the population without actual facts).

 

There are so many fallacies that you are putting up as supposed truths. First, racism can be experienced by all races, but it is most commonly experienced by the minority race in a population (that can be a white kid in a black school as well). Second the n word is completely different than "friendzone" because the n word means something negative about a group of people, but both men and women "friendzone". It could very well possibly be commonly used to define what a woman did, but it happens more with women because men pursue women more than women pursue men (This is evident in nature. The male pursues the female more often). If I say oh I'm in the friend zone with a girl its about me and is not insulting me where as if I were to say I am a n word or my friend is a n word or that guy is a n word that is something negative because of the connotation it has around it. "Friendzone" does not mean anything bad it just means that you are friends with someone you sought to be more than friends with.Third you have no real facts that the term is sexist. This is the same as I to say that all girls that are teenagers are overly emotional because my experiences and the experiences of a few others around me back that up while at the same time ignoring the fact that this is all personal experience. Fourth and most importantly you do not have any evidence of anything. When have you post data from studies or trials that have successfully and repeatedly linked friendzoning to sexism against women that is when you can really argue this. This isn't a truth that is widely known or accepted it is a claim that you are making, which is vastly different than the n word being a racist term. Yes guys can be dicks to girls who "friendzone" them and blame them, but girls can be the same way. You ignored any actual argument I made and chose to pick out a sentence and argue you which is not giving what I even said context.

 

Also it can be argued that when a woman is pregnant it is both the man and the woman's baby because of the fact if the baby is delivered then the man is expected to support it, also the fact that a man is needed to have a kid. By the way there is also a question of a destroying a life before it has a chance (this is different than the day after pill/ birth control because someone is actually in the process of producing a child). That is not to say a woman doesn't have a right to an abortion, but if the man is around then she should discuss it with him because it is also his kid.

 

You can be angry that some guys are jerks, but some girls are bitches. You can be mad at inequality among men and women in various areas of life, but you have to understand what eliminating certain terms do. But if you curtail even the most harmless word like "friendzone" then you are setting precedent to eliminate a vast majority of the English language from being used in the public forum. You are also eliminating free speech because even hateful words, actual ones like the n word are still allowed because we have free speech unless it threatens someone or a group directly. "Friendzone" is something that both sexes do and both say. Girls could (no evidence to prove it) even use it less, but they still define it the situation the same way as someone using "friendzone".

 

Before you counter my argument remember as the person making the claim you have to support your argument with actual evidence and fact. Not just emotional banter that generalizes this because of experiences of a select few.

[Koko 3,944]

Alright I have been as polite as possible, but you are being so immature and just an angsty teen, who really has yet to even understand how the world works (That is for being so impolite when I am only trying to let you understand that there are a few things that can be disagreed with and that you cannot generalize a segment of the population without actual facts).There are so many fallacies that you are putting up as supposed truths. First, racism can be experienced by all races, but it is most commonly experienced by the minority race in a population (that can be a white kid in a black school as well). Second the n word is completely different than "friendzone" because the n word means something negative about a group of people, but both men and women "friendzone". It could very well possibly be commonly used to define what a woman did, but it happens more with women because men pursue women more than women pursue men (This is evident in nature. The male pursues the female more often). If I say oh I'm in the friend zone with a girl its about me and is not insulting me where as if I were to say I am a n word or my friend is a n word or that guy is a n word that is something negative because of the connotation it has around it. "Friendzone" does not mean anything bad it just means that you are friends with someone you sought to be more than friends with.Third you have no real facts that the term is sexist. This is the same as I to say that all girls that are teenagers are overly emotional because my experiences and the experiences of a few others around me back that up while at the same time ignoring the fact that this is all personal experience. Fourth and most importantly you do not have any evidence of anything. When have you post data from studies or trials that have successfully and repeatedly linked friendzoning to sexism against women that is when you can really argue this. This isn't a truth that is widely known or accepted it is a claim that you are making, which is vastly different than the n word being a racist term. Yes guys can be dicks to girls who "friendzone" them and blame them, but girls can be the same way. You ignored any actual argument I made and chose to pick out a sentence and argue you which is not giving what I even said context.Also it can be argued that when a woman is pregnant it is both the man and the woman's baby because of the fact if the baby is delivered then the man is expected to support it, also the fact that a man is needed to have a kid. By the way there is also a question of a destroying a life before it has a chance (this is different than the day after pill/ birth control because someone is actually in the process of producing a child). That is not to say a woman doesn't have a right to an abortion, but if the man is around then she should discuss it with him because it is also his kid.You can be angry that some guys are jerks, but some girls are bitches. You can be mad at inequality among men and women in various areas of life, but you have to understand what eliminating certain terms do. But if you curtail even the most harmless word like "friendzone" then you are setting precedent to eliminate a vast majority of the English language from being used in the public forum. You are also eliminating free speech because even hateful words, actual ones like the n word are still allowed because we have free speech unless it threatens someone or a group directly. "Friendzone" is something that both sexes do and both say. Girls could (no evidence to prove it) even use it less, but they still define it the situation the same way as someone using "friendzone".Before you counter my argument remember as the person making the claim you have to support your argument with actual evidence and fact. Not just emotional banter that generalizes this because of experiences of a select few.

The n word is used to shame black people.The friendzone is used to shame women.As well, you can't be racist against a white person. You can be discriminatory, predjudice, etc, but not racist, and that's entirely different topic, excuse me for diverging from the original topic.Now off racismYou guys are not getting the big pictureYou guys are seeing this in your own point of view which is fine and dandy because you're a guy and you don't see the negativity of the friendzone from your side.Okay, visualizeYou are a girlThere's a guy that likes you but you don't like him as anything more than a friend.


He asks you out, you say no because it is your choice.


Later, people start saying things about you.


People call you a slut, a whore, a bitch, say you weren't even worth his time. They make you feel like shit for your choice.This is where it comes down to.A choice.As I've said many times, friendzoning is vilifying a woman's right to say no.That's why it's sexist.
Have you posted any data? Any actual facts?
Stop trying to make me seem like I'm in the wrong because I don't have facts.
You don't either. It's one opinion against another.
How about we all shut up and watch this smart GUY talk about how it is sexist











I think this guy explained it a lot better than I do.And actually this points how it can be negative for both parties, which I haven't touched because I am not a man and therefor do not have that point of view.

[Tom 437]

I agree with you on a lot of points Tom, but the reason it is sexist because there is going to be connotation that girl friendzones a guy, she's a bitch/slut/etc. And it is used to shame the girl for saying no because god forbid she says no. Just like god forbid she says yes.

that's why it's sexist

I understand not everyone thinks that way

I understand not everyone acts that way

The point is, that there are people that do and continuing to use the term as if it's not something wrong is just allowing them to do so as well, at least the way I see it.

 

 

And the reason that I brought up racism was because legendkillers argument that 'both genders use it' was completely flawed and I was using it to back up my point.

 

Like I said, it's sexiest because we make it that. The fact that we point our fingers to the so called "whore", it's what makes it sexiest. We shouldn't because both sides do it. However, that is sexism, and it's been around for.....well forever. And it will still continue to exist until our species go extinct or a certain gender's population is somehow EXTREMELY LOW.

 

But please, no racism. It's like bringing the console war into a religious argument. Crazy shit happens with that. It's just unnecessary, in my opinion http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sleep.png

[Koko 3,944]

Like I said, it's sexiest because we make it that. The fact that we point our fingers to the so called "whore", it's what makes it sexiest. We shouldn't because both sides do it. However, that is sexism, and it's been around for.....well forever. And it will still continue to exist until our species go extinct or a certain gender's population is somehow EXTREMELY LOW.

 

But please, no racism. It's like bringing the console war into a religious argument. Crazy shit happens with that. It's just unnecessary, in my opinion http://kh13.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sleep.png

 

Which is why I feel like we just need to stop using that term

Because I really doubt people will stop seeing it the way it is commonly see. Yknow?

 

And yeah, no racism discussion haha

[Tom 437]

Which is why I feel like we just need to stop using that term

Because I really doubt people will stop seeing it the way it is commonly see. Yknow?

 

And yeah, no racism discussion haha

 

Tanks.

 

Now let this be a lesson to you people. A GUY argued in favor for this REASONABLY. You can see that it's not all about girls. Be lucky I haven't responded to anyone replies besides Koko, because I'm not in the mood for herp derp.

[Koko 3,944]

Tanks.

 

Now let this be a lesson to you people. A GUY argued in favor for this REASONABLY. You can see that it's not all about girls. Be lucky I haven't responded to anyone replies besides Koko, because I'm not in the mood for herp derp.

 

kiddies take lesson from Tom

[legendkiller222 22]

The n word is used to shame black people.

 

 

The friendzone is used to shame women.

 

 

As well, you can't be racist against a white person. You can be discriminatory, predjudice, etc, but not racist, and that's entirely different topic, excuse me for diverging from the original topic.

 

 

Now off racism

 

 

 

 

 

You guys are not getting the big picture

 

 

 

 

 

You guys are seeing this in your own point of view which is fine and dandy because you're a guy and you don't see the negativity of the friendzone from your side.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, visualize

 

 

 

 

 

You are a girl

 

 

There's a guy that likes you but you don't like him as anything more than a friend.

 

 

He asks you out, you say no because it is your choice.

 

 

Later, people start saying things about you.

 

 

People call you a slut, a whore, a bitch, say you weren't even worth his time. They make you feel like shit for your choice.

 

 

 

 

 

This is where it comes down to.

 

 

A choice.

 

 

As I've said many times, friendzoning is vilifying a woman's right to say no.

 

 

That's why it's sexist.

 

 

 

Have you posted any data? Any actual facts?

Stop trying to make me seem like I'm in the wrong because I don't have facts.

You don't either. It's one opinion against another.

 

 

 

How about we all shut up and watch this smart GUY talk about how it is sexist

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this guy explained it a lot better than I do.

 

And actually this points how it can be negative for both parties, which I haven't touched because I am not a man and therefor do not have that point of view.

 

I have to respond to your claim that racism cannot be done against white people. Racism is the belief that a group of people are superior, so if a bunch of Asian kids act that way to a white kid then that is being racist. Racism in America is more evident against people who are not white because white people are the majority in most areas.

 

But to the real argument...

 

You have to realize that when you make a claim you have to support your main idea. This is the foundation of debate, trust me, I have taken argument and debate in college and know how this works. As the negative, one disproving your claim, I do not need to present evidence denying a claim being made unless there is evidence already there by the one making the claim. Also there is no real evidence so I am arguing your experiences that are stereotyping a population.

 

To the Youtube video, this guy sure formalizes his points well, but his argument is still invalid because he is jumping to the conclusion that enough guys do this to call it sexist. He is using one example as the whole situation. "Friendzone" isn't sexist, but as people on here have pointed out people can act sexist from their reaction to being rejected. Really it is just acting frustrated at the situation. It is completely fine to act like a jerk when you are rejected at first. We are humans and are allowed to be upset and angry. It isn't right to continue this behavior for a while, but it is normal to have some negative feelings at first. Also, there is the other side to this that men "firendzone" and girls get mad about it and talk s**t on them.

 

This argument could be better taken as an argument that we should not use "friendzone" in a negative way to describe someone who rejects someone else. However, this is still on an individual level because the way you use it is different every time. I can say "I need to ask so and so out soon before I get into the 'friendzone'." Indicating that there is an amount of time before a girl sees me only as a friend. This is not sexist it is a logical assumption that after awhile of showing no or little interest to take things to a more than friends level that I am seen as only viewing her as a friend. Basically it is context and since there is only a slim number of people compared to the entire population that goes through this that it is not enough to lobby to get rid of "friendzone" as a word.

 

This is more of an immature high school thing as well. As people get less and less angry at the person for "friendzoning" them as they get older because they understand it. It isn't sexist as much as it is immaturity which is seen a lot among high schoolers who are growing, developing and learning about the world.

 

I think it is great you are questioning things as a teenager. That is something everyone should do. My advice to you however is to argue more clearly and less emotionally because when arguing it doesn't matter what your opinion is if the evidence is not there to support the initial claim. Also, there is always another side that may even be more valid than yours and to find a compromise.

Edited April 10, 2012 by legendkiller222

[Koko 3,944]

I have to respond to your claim that racism cannot be done against white people. Racism is the belief that a group of people are superior, so if a bunch of Asian kids act that way to a white kid then that is being racist. Racism in America is more evident against people who are not white because white people are the majority in most areas.

 

But to the real argument...

 

You have to realize that when you make a claim you have to support your main idea. This is the foundation of debate, trust me, I have taken argument and debate in college and know how this works. As the negative, one disproving your claim, I do not need to present evidence denying a claim being made unless there is evidence already there by the one making the claim. Also there is no real evidence so I am arguing your experiences that are stereotyping a population.

 

To the Youtube video, this guy sure formalizes his points well, but his argument is still invalid because he is jumping to the conclusion that enough guys do this to call it sexist. He is using one example as the whole situation. "Friendzone" isn't sexist, but as people on here have pointed out people can act sexist from their reaction to being rejected. Really it is just acting frustrated at the situation. It is completely fine to act like a jerk when you are rejected at first. We are humans and are allowed to be upset and angry. It isn't right to continue this behavior for a while, but it is normal to have some negative feelings at first. Also, there is the other side to this that men "firendzone" and girls get mad about it and talk s**t on them.

 

This argument could be better taken as an argument that we should not use "friendzone" in a negative way to describe someone who rejects someone else. However, this is still on an individual level because the way you use it is different every time. I can say "I need to ask so and so out soon before I get into the 'friendzone'." Indicating that there is an amount of time before a girl sees me only as a friend. This is not sexist it is a logical assumption that after awhile of showing no or little interest to take things to a more than friends level that I am seen as only viewing her as a friend. Basically it is context and since there is only a slim number of people compared to the entire population that goes through this that it is not enough to lobby to get rid of "friendzone" as a word.

 

I understand where you're coming from, and you have good points, but I still stand by my point.

I'm not saying we're going to get rid of the word.

That's next to impossible but it rustles my jimmies when people do use it.

Yes, we can stop using it in a negative context, but just because we stop doesn't mean it's not there.

 

The video, is pretty much what I'm trying to say, and I believe that yes there are enough guys like this to call it sexist. Honestly, the number doesn't matter, it's just the fact that it happens.

And yes girls can talk shit too, but they can still be seen in the wrong when they're friendzoned by a guy.

 

 

 

Also, just because you take a class doesn't mean you know everything about forming arguments and debates. Js.

Not meaning to belittle you or disprove what you're saying, but if you want to make your opinion more legitimate than mine, then you have to provide evidence as well.

You can not disprove my own opinion because of lack of evidence if you don't have it either.

They're both opinions and my opinion is one I'm going to strongly support.

It's really tiresome to have someone tell me I need facts, when the other party isn't giving any facts either.

Especially, since imo, this has nothing to do with facts or numbers.

[legendkiller222 22]

I understand where you're coming from, and you have good points, but I still stand by my point.

I'm not saying we're going to get rid of the word.

That's next to impossible but it rustles my jimmies when people do use it.

Yes, we can stop using it in a negative context, but just because we stop doesn't mean it's not there.

 

The video, is pretty much what I'm trying to say, and I believe that yes there are enough guys like this to call it sexist. Honestly, the number doesn't matter, it's just the fact that it happens.

And yes girls can talk shit too, but they can still be seen in the wrong when they're friendzoned by a guy.

 

 

 

Also, just because you take a class doesn't mean you know everything about forming arguments and debates. Js.

Not meaning to belittle you or disprove what you're saying, but if you want to make your opinion more legitimate than mine, then you have to provide evidence as well.

You can not disprove my own opinion because of lack of evidence if you don't have it either.

They're both opinions and my opinion is one I'm going to strongly support.

It's really tiresome to have someone tell me I need facts, when the other party isn't giving any facts either.

Especially, since imo, this has nothing to do with facts or numbers.

 

I'm not attempting to argue superiority by saying I took a class, but what I mean is that I have a better understanding for debating and how it goes about. Facts are needed to support an initial claim because honestly your opinion (Anybody's opinion) means nothing without it. I could think that Elmo created the world, but that doesn't make it true without facts. My whole point being is that there is no evidence that there are enough guys to call it sexist and jumping to that conclusion is problematic because in reality it is really a high school thing. I would agree with you 100% if you related this to high schoolers only because high school can be very sexist because it is built around immature stereotypes. High schoolers and very few college kids use this term and therefore it is not sexist it is just immaturity of how teens handle a situation. You're most likely right in the context of your environment (high school), but not when it comes to society as a whole.

[shadowblade 31]

Tanks.

 

Now let this be a lesson to you people. A GUY argued in favor for this REASONABLY. You can see that it's not all about girls. Be lucky I haven't responded to anyone replies besides Koko, because I'm not in the mood for herp derp.

 

take a serious lesson from tom kids

[The One Truth 48]

I agree with Tom sad to say it is sexism in way. But real sad part is that it's going to be there. Just like any stereotypes. Why? Because as long there are people out there living on as the stereotypes and/or until like Tom said our species come extinct there isn't much that can be done.

 

And as Legend Killer said in any debate you need facts. Saying one thing with out some general form of info to make it true isn't a debate, its more like bickering. Like any most talked about stuff like abortion, the government, religion. Without an idea on why you're debating about, your statement is right with the info and to make the statement true. Such as If ice melts, it turns to a liquid, when liquid is heated up it. evaporates forming a gas. If you not some way true it isn't much of a debate.

 

I would say more but I'll leave that for another time.

Edited April 11, 2012 by The One Truth

[Axtwyt 500]

Reading this and hearing that nice guys like me are "assholes" makes me say:

 

"Great! Now I have guilt!"