Why the 'friendzone' is bs

[Koko 3,944]

This is not mine, I found a nifty tumblr post explaining why the friendzone is sexist bullshit and why 'nice guys' are misogynists.

 

As defined by urban dictionary, the friendzone is…

“When you are expected to support a girl you really like while she searches for a smarter, richer, and more handsome boyfriend. There is little you can do without feeling like a dick. All in all, one of the meanest things a girl can do, whether they mean it or not.”

and ”The perennial location of nice guys everywhere.”

Although this hypothetical situation could work both ways, friendzone is almost always applied to a man who is rejected by a woman. Therefore, there is something inherently unequal, something inherently sexist about the term “friendzone”. But what and why?

From my experience, this is what friend zone is. A “nice guy” pursues a woman, but isn’t forward with his intentions from the get-go like, say, a “jerk”. The woman is pleased to see a man who is interested in her not as a sexual object but as a human being and wishes for things to stay that way. The man is not satisfied with seeing the woman as a human being because being “expected to support a girl” is a bad deal if she’s not putting out.

Before I delve into the sociological aspects of this, I just want to point out that ”friendzone” is no more pleasant for a woman than it is a man. First, that is to say unrequited love works both ways, but the person who doesn’t return affections is considered mean only when she’s a woman. And second, what option does the woman have in a traditional “friendzone” situation? Just stop talking to a close friend to avoid “leading him on”? In high school, I found out my best friend of 2 years liked me. Having to tell him I didn’t feel the same way and being immediately ex-communicated via Facebook status (“Thanks for wasting my time”) was one of the worst things that ever happened to me. Were our two years of friendship invalid because I didn’t want anything more? Was all our time together really wasted because there was no hypothetical pay off?

Guys who do this and claim to be “nice guys” are the worst misogynists because of their sense of entitlement toward a woman. They make investments in property and expect their dividends. They are fake friends. They are selfish. And they will jump at the chance to vilify you and victimize themselves when their attempts at manipulation don’t work. Clearly, “friendzone” is the remnant of a phenomenon that has plagued women since the beginning of time: women are not independent creatures. Our love lives exist only in the context of a man’s desire. When we make independent decisions, we are subject to a host of derogatory terms. “Slut” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “yes”. “Friendzone” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “no”

 

[Queen Tery 4,591]

This is not mine, I found a nifty tumblr post explaining why the friendzone is sexist bullshit and why 'nice guys' are misogynists.

 

 

 

i agree with a few points on this, but i still think that the friend zone exists. even, if only some women do it. there are women who complain that they can't find a nice guy, who doesn't treat her like a sexual object, despite having someone right there, in front of them. yet, some will continue to date the a**hole. for many women, they may not realize they are doing this, but they are. notice i did say some women. not all women do this. some men do this, too, but normally you don't hear guys complain about not being able to meet a nice girl and then date stupid beyotches, of their own free will, when they have a nice girl who likes them. i have been put in the friend zone, many times, but no i would not stop being friends with a girl, just because i feel like i've been friend zoned. so, yes this girl has a valid point, but it sounds like she's only including her own experience with the friend zone and not actually looking at other situations.

[TheApprenticeofKingMickey 3,689]

Damn. I tried to like it but I reached my quota.

 

All in all, I agree with that entire post.

[Protoman 1,974]

i agree with a few points on this, but i still think that the friend zone exists. even, if only some women do it. there are women who complain that they can't find a nice guy, who doesn't treat her like a sexual object, despite having someone right there, in front of them. yet, some will continue to date the a**hole. for many women, they may not realize they are doing this, but they are. notice i did say some women. not all women do this. some men do this, too, but normally you don't hear guys complain about not being able to meet a nice girl and then date stupid beyotches, of their own free will, when they have a nice girl who likes them. i have been put in the friend zone, many times, but no i would not stop being friends with a girl, just because i feel like i've been friend zoned. so, yes this girl has a valid point, but it sounds like she's only including her own experience with the friend zone and not actually looking at other situations.

 

Let people date who they want, it's not your choice because it's not your life. If they want to date "assholes" then so be it, their personal preference is personal. Their own.

[Koko 3,944]

i agree with a few points on this, but i still think that the friend zone exists. even, if only some women do it. there are women who complain that they can't find a nice guy, who doesn't treat her like a sexual object, despite having someone right there, in front of them. yet, some will continue to date the a**hole. for many women, they may not realize they are doing this, but they are. notice i did say some women. not all women do this. some men do this, too, but normally you don't hear guys complain about not being able to meet a nice girl and then date stupid beyotches, of their own free will, when they have a nice girl who likes them. i have been put in the friend zone, many times, but no i would not stop being friends with a girl, just because i feel like i've been friend zoned. so, yes this girl has a valid point, but it sounds like she's only including her own experience with the friend zone and not actually looking at other situations.

 

okay, i never said it didn't exist

of course it firetrucking exists because the misogyny in society created it

yes women say they're friendzoned

but i believe it mentions up there why it's sexist either way

does a girl completely cut off the friendship because she was 'friendzoned'? most of the time, in comparison to most guys, no

and most 'nice guys' are assholes too

they just see the other guys as assholes

did you like skim the post

because it firetrucking explains everything there

and it's happen to many girls

where this guy they thought was their friend gets pissed off because she doesn't like him

and starts acting like an asshole to whoever they are currently dating

and act like they deserve something for being their friends, that something being sex or a relationship

it all boils down to, ANYONE CAN DATE WHOEVER THEY WANT WITHOUT FEELING GUILTY

guess what the friendzone does, it makes them feel guilty for choosing who they want to date

[Queen Tery 4,591]

okay, i never said it didn't exist

of course it firetrucking exists because the misogyny in society created it

yes women say they're friendzoned

but i believe it mentions up there why it's sexist either way

does a girl completely cut off the friendship because she was 'friendzoned'? most of the time, in comparison to most guys, no

and most 'nice guys' are assholes too

they just see the other guys as assholes

did you like skim the post

because it firetrucking explains everything there

and it's happen to many girls

where this guy they thought was their friend gets pissed off because she doesn't like him

and starts acting like an asshole to whoever they are currently dating

and act like they deserve something for being their friends, that something being sex or a relationship

it all boils down to, ANYONE CAN DATE WHOEVER THEY WANT WITHOUT FEELING GUILTY

guess what the friendzone does, it makes them feel guilty for choosing who they want to date

 

i understand that they can date whoever they want. like i said, i only think it's dumb when they complain about not being able to find a nice guy, when they have one right in front of them. if the woman isn't complaining and the guy they're dating treats her right, then the supposedly "friendzoned" guy has no right to complain. i'm just saying that i'ts happened to me before. women tell me how nice i am and that any girl would be lucky to have me, but yet they don't. they'll date the guys they do and still complain. that's all i'm saying. i'm not being sexist because i do realize that guys do it, too. but, you want to know the difference between the guys you're talking about and me? i actually try to stay friends with my girl friends. i don't ditch them because they're dating someone else. they forget about me, because i'm not the guy they're dating and there are many other girls and guys out there that do this to their "friends."

[Koko 3,944]

i understand that they can date whoever they want. like i said, i only think it's dumb when they complain about not being able to find a nice guy, when they have one right in front of them. if the woman isn't complaining and the guy they're dating treats her right, then the supposedly "friendzoned" guy has no right to complain. i'm just saying that i'ts happened to me before. women tell me how nice i am and that any girl would be lucky to have me, but yet they don't. they'll date the guys they do and still complain. that's all i'm saying. i'm not being sexist because i do realize that guys do it, too. but, you want to know the difference between the guys you're talking about and me? i actually try to stay friends with my girl friends. i don't ditch them because they're dating someone else. they forget about me, because i'm not the guy they're dating and there are many other girls and guys out there that do this to their "friends."

 

The 'nice guy' you're talking about is a misogynistic asshole

That is the whole point

You are not a 'nice guy' for befriending a girl and then calling whoever she chooses to date an asshole.

You are not a 'nice guy' when you complain about being friendzone and make the girl feel guilty.

You are not a 'nice guy' because you are making it seem like she owes you WHEN SHE DOESN'T

if you don't like the complaining, then maybe you should actually BE A NICE GUY INSTEAD OF A MISOGYNISTIC PRICK

or you can leave and not associate with the girls that complain

that isn't directed to you btw

 

the friendzone is sexist bullshit, whether you act like that or not

that's not the point

the point is that the friendzone is just promoting misogyny and makes it seem like a girl should not have a choice

we should be beyond that point

 

also another good blog post

 

 

There were no posts last week, at all. That is unfortunate. I'm sorry I forgot to post yesterday.

 

Let's systematically discuss important things about this image. Starting with brotips. Brotips and I have an interesting relationship. They are sometimes entertaining and sometimes contain middling to good advice, but are sometimes stupid, non-bro-specific, or vaguely sexist. (Or, you know, all three. Let's not forget the lessons learned in my last post - things can fall into more than one category!)

 

As you may have guessed, this one is all three. We'll get into my opinion on the friendzone later, but for now let's stick to the sexism. I'm pretty sick of people blaming everything on women. I'm actually just sick of people blaming each other for anything in the first place, but the "blame women" thing has a bit of a nasty history that continues to this day with bad sitcom characters, rejected romantics, "mens' rights activists", blaming rape victims, and so forth. But let's focus up, before I do a whole paragraph on things that are not this image. The point I want to say here is that women aren't always to blame - men put women in the friendzone, too. I have seen it happen with my own eyes. In fact, I have done it with my own words. More on this later.

 

Also, Neil Patrick Harris is gay. If he ever got friendzoned, wouldn't it be by a dude? This is just a continuation of my point that this issue goes beyond "lol wimmin r mean 2 me". Guys friendzone girls. Girls friendzone guys. Guys friendzone guys. Girls friendzone girls. (I don't have the willpower to continue through every possibility but yes, there are other gender identities and you should read up on it. Godspeed.)

 

I think we're at problem 3? I'm not sure. Problem 3: the "like and share" message. Don't tell me what to do! But let me say this about the like and share: there has never been an easier way to gauge the popularity of an opinion, and this one's pretty popular. I've seen some comments from people like me who are a little tired of the friendzone, and the sexist implications, but for the most part I've seen a lot of "omg so. true." This is not really a "problem", but it does worry me that so many people support blaming other people for everything. Also it worries me that women post in agreement of this image, because it smacks of bringing other women down to make oneself look better (see my last blog post).

 

Then we come to the friendzone itself. There are many, many factors affecting one's position in or out of this mystical realm. It's not a simple "uh, they didn't date me and dated a douchebag instead, how evil is that". Maybe you're not the "nice guy" you say you are. Maybe you're physically unattractive to them, or don't share their interests. Maybe they're not ready for a relationship, or maybe they don't want to be in a relationship at all. The list goes on. In my personal experience, I told a girl I didn't want to date her because I wasn't really down with the idea of relationships. Does this make me a friendzoning asshole? No. A common uniting theme of all my blog posts so far is "There is no black and white", and this one fits right in. Sometimes people don't want to date you, and it's not always because they'd rather date a douchebag.

 

In conclusion, interpersonal relationships are too complicated to properly fit into facebook images, and pretending that they aren't is part of the reason people mess them up so often. You'll get along better with people if you don't automatically assume they have to behave in a predictable, simple way.

 

I whipped this post out pretty quickly after realizing what day it was, so I may be making some large changes to this if (when?) I look back and realize it's poorly written or missing important points. If I do, I'll inform you. Looking back at it even now, it seems pretty scattershot and haphazard.

 

Keep it real, folks.

 

[Queen Tery 4,591]

The 'nice guy' you're talking about is a misogynistic asshole

That is the whole point

You are not a 'nice guy' for befriending a girl and then calling whoever she chooses to date an asshole.

You are not a 'nice guy' when you complain about being friendzone and make the girl feel guilty.

You are not a 'nice guy' because you are making it seem like she owes you WHEN SHE DOESN'T

if you don't like the complaining, then maybe you should actually BE A NICE GUY INSTEAD OF A MISOGYNISTIC PRICK

or you can leave and not associate with the girls that complain

that isn't directed to you btw

 

the friendzone is sexist bullshit, whether you act like that or not

that's not the point

the point is that the friendzone is just promoting misogyny and makes it seem like a girl should not have a choice

we should be beyond that point

 

also another good blog post

 

yes, the girl does have a choice and i respect that. but, while some guys beneath the "nice guy" facade are assholes, some are nice and it just frustrates them when they see the woman they care for get treated bad by some other guy that she has a relationship with. that's why some of them call them assholes. the rest, yes, are just jealous assholes, that were looking to get some. i just see some truth to the friendzone, even if not to the height that society has reached. putting a label on it, may promote sexism, to an extent, but it doesn't for me, because i realize that some women don't do this and some guys do this, also. i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels that way. also, thank you for specifying that you weren't referring to me, that bothered me at first when i though you were. lol

[Koko 3,944]

yes, the girl does have a choice and i respect that. but, while some guys beneath the "nice guy" facade are assholes, some are nice and it just frustrates them when they see the woman they care for get treated bad by some other guy that she has a relationship with. that's why some of them call them assholes. the rest, yes, are just jealous assholes, that were looking to get some. i just see some truth to the friendzone, even if not to the height that society has reached. putting a label on it, may promote sexism, to an extent, but it doesn't for me, because i realize that some women don't do this and some guys do this, also. i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels that way. also, thank you for specifying that you weren't referring to me, that bothered me at first when i though you were. lol

 

it does promote sexism tho

no matter if you think so or not

which is why people need to stop using it and suck it up

if you truly cared about a girl and she was going out with a jerk and it frustrated you, you would talk to her about it

and you still would not complain that she doesnt want to go out with you

it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers

making it seem bad for her to have a choice is what the friendzone does, and by saying she friendzoned you, you are saying she has no right to choose anything

it's one of the many things that continue the war on women

[Queen Tery 4,591]

it does promote sexism tho

no matter if you think so or not

which is why people need to stop using it and suck it up

if you truly cared about a girl and she was going out with a jerk and it frustrated you, you would talk to her about it

and you still would not complain that she doesnt want to go out with you

it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers

making it seem bad for her to have a choice is what the friendzone does, and by saying she friendzoned you, you are saying she has no right to choose anything

it's one of the many things that continue the war on women

 

i do agree, with a lot of your points. i think we do need to move past sexism.

[CloudsHeartZacksMind 3]

Hmmn,I'm sorry but alot of things posted contadict each other or are just downright unfair.First of all the post is refering to that persons personal experience.That is just one form of the friendzone.There are other versions.Secondly the guy in her post is a jerk for trying to use her for his desires but the guy doesnt represent every guy in the friendzone.There are actually guys that truly care for women and arent just using them.

 

The woman is pleased to see a man who is interested in her not as a sexual object but as a human being and wishes for things to stay that way.

 

I think this is worded poorly.It implies that if a guy approaches a girl in an effort to be more than friends then he only see's her as a sexual object.

 

''if you truly cared about a girl and she was going out with a jerk and it frustrated you, you would talk to her about it''

''it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers''

 

These quotes seem to contradict each other

 

''it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers''

 

I'm sorry but if a girl willingly choose to date an asshole instead a guy who truly cares for her then she's not very bright.And no the guy she chooses to date is not an asshole just because he was chosen over the friendzoned guy.I talking about a legit jerk who mistreats her.

 

''And second, what option does the woman have in a traditional “friendzone” situation? Just stop talking to a close friend to avoid “leading him on”?

 

While I do agree that a guy just cutting a close friend out of his life because she wont date him is messed up,If the guy is hurting emotionally over her what choice does he have but to leave.I know that if i had strong feelings for a girl but i knew she didnt feel the same i wouldnt want to endure that.

 

''The 'nice guy' you're talking about is a misogynistic asshole''

 

This isnt true for all guys who refer to themselves as nice guy.I see myself as a ''nice guy'' but i dont use women for sex.

 

''it's one of the many things that continue the war on women''

 

I'm really not sure what your talking about here.

 

In the end all im saying saying there are different examples of the friendzone.That persons story doesnt precisly describe the friendzone,that is just her experience.Remember to be straight up with the one you have feelings for and if they dont feel the same just move on.

Edited April 6, 2012 by CloudsHeartZacksMind

[Koko 3,944]

Hmmn,I'm sorry but alot of things posted contadict each other or are just downright unfair.First of all the post is refering to that persons personal experience.That is just one form of the friendzone.There are other versions.Secondly the guy in her post is a jerk for trying to use her for his desires but the guy doesnt represent every guy in the friendzone.There are actually guys that truly care for women and arent just using them.

 

I don't believe I said this was referring to all guys

It's unfair to lump all guys together

But sadly, a fair amount of guys are this way.

And like I said millions of times: The friendzone is sexist bullshit and you should not say you got friendzoned because that's stupid and it needs to stop. It doesn't matter if you're a misogynistic asshole or if you're an actual good guy, you still shouldn't complain about being friendzoned.

 

The woman is pleased to see a man who is interested in her not as a sexual object but as a human being and wishes for things to stay that way.

 

I think this is worded poorly.It implies that if a guy approaches a girl in an effort to be more than friends then he only see's her as a sexual object.

 

I don't see how you got that from it to be honest.

It's basically saying that she just wants to stay friends and not have a relationship.

The end.

But I guess it's up for interpretation?

 

''if you truly cared about a girl and she was going out with a jerk and it frustrated you, you would talk to her about it''

''it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers''

 

These quotes seem to contradict each other

 

how do they contradict each other

answer: they don't

it's fine to talk about it, if you're concerned, just don't force her to do anything unless the situation is not very good. like maybe the guy is abusing her and you're a concerned friend THAT'S OKAY.

but if you just don't like him, that's not your problem and who she chooses to date is her business

Understand?

 

''it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers''

 

I'm sorry but if a girl willingly choose to date an asshole instead a guy who truly cares for her then she's not very bright.And no the guy she chooses to date is not an asshole just because he was chosen over the friendzoned guy.I talking about a legit jerk who mistreats her.

 

I'm back to the part of, it's her choice.

No matter what

Not everyone makes smart choices

Realize that.

Everyone has made stupid choices

If she decides to stay with a guy that treats her like crap then that's HER PROBLEM

don't guilt her for it

the only reason you should step in is if HE'S ABUSING HER

and sadly a lot of guys who are 'friendzoned' see the guys they were chosen over as jerks, whether they are jerks or not.

 

''And second, what option does the woman have in a traditional “friendzone” situation? Just stop talking to a close friend to avoid “leading him on”?

 

While I do agree that a guy just cutting a close friend out of his life because she wont date him is messed up,If the guy is hurting emotionally over her what choice does he have but to leave.I know that if i had strong feelings for a girl but i knew she didnt feel the same i wouldnt want to endure that.

 

but that's unfair to the girl if she considered you a best friend

imo, if you cared about someone, you'd be there for them no matter what

even if they didnt return your feelings

let's use me for an example

i liked my best friend for the longest time

but i would never have a chance because she is straight and i am not obviously

as much as it hurt me at first, i cared about her too much to just drop her

so i stuck around, GOT OVER IT, and have a wonderful girlfriend.

sure it depends on how you handle it, but i really think that if you cared about someone, you'd stick by their side no matter what the circumstance

 

''The 'nice guy' you're talking about is a misogynistic asshole''

 

This isnt true for all guys who refer to themselves as nice guy.I see myself as a ''nice guy'' but i dont use women for sex.

 

i never said this applied to all nice guys

i never said there werent good guys in the world

but most of the self proclaimed 'nice guys' are assholes

 

''it's one of the many things that continue the war on women''

 

I'm really not sure what your talking about here.

 

the war on women

the war in which our rights are being taken away

where we are blamed for things that are not our fault

where we are blamed for being raped, blamed for not sharing the same feelings someone has for (basically friendzoning is blaming the girl for not feeling the same way and that's not right

where we are still seen as below men

where we are not equal to men

that is the war on women

 

In the end all im saying saying there are different examples of the friendzone.That persons story doesnt precisly describe the friendzone,that is just her experience.Remember to be straight up with the one you have feelings for and if they dont feel the same just move on.

 

No matter what examples there are of friendzoning, that doesn't make it any less wrong and sexist.

I bolded that sentence because THAT'S WHAT YOU SHOULD DO INSTEAD OF firetruckING SAYING YOU GOT FRIENDZONED

[Queen Tery 4,591]

I don't believe I said this was referring to all guys

It's unfair to lump all guys together

But sadly, a majority of guys are this way.

And like I said millions of times: The friendzone is sexist bullshit and you should not say you got friendzoned because that's stupid and it needs to stop. It doesn't matter if you're a misogynistic asshole or if you're an actual good guy, you still shouldn't complain about being friendzoned.

 

 

 

I don't see how you got that from it to be honest.

It's basically saying that she just wants to stay friends and not have a relationship.

The end.

But I guess it's up for interpretation?

 

 

 

how do they contradict each other

answer: they don't

it's fine to talk about it, if you're concerned, just don't force her to do anything unless the situation is not very good. like maybe the guy is abusing her and you're a concerned friend THAT'S OKAY.

but if you just don't like him, that's not your problem and who she chooses to date is her business

Understand?

 

 

 

I'm back to the part of, it's her choice.

No matter what

Not everyone makes smart choices

Realize that.

Everyone has made stupid choices

If she decides to stay with a guy that treats her like crap then that's HER PROBLEM

don't guilt her for it

the only reason you should step in is if HE'S ABUSING HER

and sadly a lot of guys who are 'friendzoned' see the guys they were chosen over as jerks, whether they are jerks or not.

 

 

 

but that's unfair to the girl if she considered you a best friend

imo, if you cared about someone, you'd be there for them no matter what

even if they didnt return your feelings

let's use me for an example

i liked my best friend for the longest time

but i would never have a chance because she is straight and i am not obviously

as much as it hurt me at first, i cared about her too much to just drop her

so i stuck around, GOT OVER IT, and have a wonderful girlfriend.

sure it depends on how you handle it, but i really think that if you cared about someone, you'd stick by their side no matter what the circumstance

 

 

 

i never said this applied to all nice guys

i never said there werent good guys in the world

but most of the self proclaimed 'nice guys' are assholes

 

 

 

the war on women

the war in which our rights are being taken away

where we are blamed for things that are not our fault

where we are blamed for being raped, blamed for not sharing the same feelings someone has for (basically friendzoning is blaming the girl for not feeling the same way and that's not right

where we are still seen as below men

where we are not equal to men

that is the war on women

 

 

 

No matter what examples there are of friendzoning, that doesn't make it any less wrong and sexist.

I bolded that sentence because THAT'S WHAT YOU SHOULD DO INSTEAD OF firetruckING SAYING YOU GOT FRIENDZONED

 

Hmmn,I'm sorry but alot of things posted contadict each other or are just downright unfair.First of all the post is refering to that persons personal experience.That is just one form of the friendzone.There are other versions.Secondly the guy in her post is a jerk for trying to use her for his desires but the guy doesnt represent every guy in the friendzone.There are actually guys that truly care for women and arent just using them.

 

The woman is pleased to see a man who is interested in her not as a sexual object but as a human being and wishes for things to stay that way.

 

I think this is worded poorly.It implies that if a guy approaches a girl in an effort to be more than friends then he only see's her as a sexual object.

 

''if you truly cared about a girl and she was going out with a jerk and it frustrated you, you would talk to her about it''

''it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers''

 

These quotes seem to contradict each other

 

''it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers''

 

I'm sorry but if a girl willingly choose to date an asshole instead a guy who truly cares for her then she's not very bright.And no the guy she chooses to date is not an asshole just because he was chosen over the friendzoned guy.I talking about a legit jerk who mistreats her.

 

''And second, what option does the woman have in a traditional “friendzone” situation? Just stop talking to a close friend to avoid “leading him on”?

 

While I do agree that a guy just cutting a close friend out of his life because she wont date him is messed up,If the guy is hurting emotionally over her what choice does he have but to leave.I know that if i had strong feelings for a girl but i knew she didnt feel the same i wouldnt want to endure that.

 

''The 'nice guy' you're talking about is a misogynistic asshole''

 

This isnt true for all guys who refer to themselves as nice guy.I see myself as a ''nice guy'' but i dont use women for sex.

 

''it's one of the many things that continue the war on women''

 

I'm really not sure what your talking about here.

 

In the end all im saying saying there are different examples of the friendzone.That persons story doesnt precisly describe the friendzone,that is just her experience.Remember to be straight up with the one you have feelings for and if they dont feel the same just move on.

 

wow, it feels really weird to agree with just about every point both of you make. lmao

[Paranoia 494]

-sigh- Seriously? Out of all the /actual/ sexist stuff out there, and you pick the one term that's used by both sexes? Also, what makes this term so offensive? Sorry, I don't get my facts from Urban Dictionary. That's like getting them from Wikipedia. :l

 

I really don't mean to pick a fight, but I always get bent out of shape over 15 year old "Activists". Bleh.

 

Everyone deserves a voice, but some need to find an actual reason to use it.

[Koko 3,944]

-sigh- Seriously? Out of all the /actual/ sexist stuff out there, and you pick the one term that's used by both sexes? Also, what makes this term so offensive? Sorry, I don't get my facts from Urban Dictionary. That's like getting them from Wikipedia. :l

 

I really don't mean to pick a fight, but I always get bent out of shape over 15 year old "Activists". Bleh.

 

Everyone deserves a voice, but some need to find an actual reason to use it.

 

It's used by all genders yes, that doesn't mean it's sexist.

It's like slut shaming

Both sexes use it, but in general it is directed to promiscuous women and its intentions is to shame them for doing what they want with their body.

Let's look at it this way.

If a guy befriends a girl and cares about her because he has a crush on her, he's seen as a good friend, even when she rejects him and then he starts complaining that he was friendzoned.

If a girl befriends a guy and cares about him because she has a crush on him, more often than not she is seen as clingy and obsessive.

 

I'm not saying this happens all the time, but it does happen.

And just because all genders use the term, doesn't make anymore sexist.

 

And about the Urban Dictionary definition, if you go on there, most of the definitions are the same and since most are submitted by ACTUAL PEOPLE, you're appalled about how many people think that way.

It's not a matter of facts and how legit the information is, it's how people actually think that way.

Guys think they deserve something out of befriending a girl they like and when they don't, she's a slut, a bitch, a good for nothing whore, and etc.

[Paranoia 494]

Thanks, I needed an early morning laugh.

 

The "Friend Zone" is nothing but an opinion. You pretty much just said it yourself.

Not all people have the same opinion about this subject, either. Some see it as a term used when a girl they legitimately like, not nessessarily for sexual attention, sets them off to the side while the girl goes off and get screwed over and over by the guys that only want that sexual attention. They don't like the girl for her promiscuity, rather they disapprove of it. Granted, not all guys see this opinion as there's, but thats why its an opinion.

 

Its not just black and white.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Paranoia

[Protoman 1,974]

I just think you have to respect someone's choices, you know? Putting the word friendzone all over it just makes the person look like they're in the wrong. They shouldn't be treated differently by you for going after the romantic interest they actually want. It's unfair to make them look and feel like the 'bad-guy' when its their choice and decision. I'm not saying that you can't be bummed and upset over it for a while, but I think the term is just disrespectful. All-in-all, you shouldn't expect to have the ability to control someone's actions. If they only like to think of you as a friend, just leave it.

[Paranoia 494]

@Proto: that is a rather respectible opinion. I personally hate the term myself. It only spreads the ignorance, you know?

 

But to say its sexist when it really isn't. This is nothing to get bent out of shape over, when there is so much more that has popped up recently. Like, has anyone seen that new Scion commercial? Having three "attractive" girls, in bikinis, in a car holding milk and white cream filled doughnuts and having a stunt driver driving eradically so the milk and cream spills on them. If that isn't sexist, I need the next ticket off this planet.

[Koko 3,944]

The fact of the matter, it is sexist, no matter how much you try to rationalize that it's not.

And of course, that commercial could be seen as extremely sexist and degrading to women, but you will also have people argue that it isn't because of xyz reason.

Some people might see that as even empowering women and their sexuality.

Do people see that in things like friendzoning? No, people see the girl as a bitch or a slut when she friendzones someone. They see her choice as wrong and that she shouldn't even have a choice and she should date the 'nice guy' whether she likes him or not. Friendzoning just makes it seem like she shouldn't have a choice.

That's why it is sexist.

 

 

you know what I find hilarious, it's only guys have been arguing with me, trying to protect their asses and prove that it isn't sexist.

not a single girl.

that's pretty funny not gonna lie.

[Paranoia 494]

If you can find /legitimate proof/, not just opinions, that the term is sexist, then I will back down. Until then, I will keep defending everyone who has used the term, both guys /and/ girls,from your childish, accusatory actions.

 

Guys are not perfect, girls aren't perfect either. Not all guys want sex, and not all girls are innocent and timid. Some girls even have the decency to come on a public forum and accuse most of the male population of being sexist for using a phrase that both sexes share. The phrase itself is not sexist. Its the /intent/ behind it that gives it definition.

 

You see something, and claim that its wrong. Then you go places and spout off and think your actions are just. Then someone like me comes along with actual common logic and an open mind and tries to get you to see that you, yourself are wrong. Girls who use it are just clingy, while guys who use it are downright disgusting sexist pigs? That's the /intent/ I am seeing with your posts and to me, thats just wrong.

[Emo/Yami 37]

The friendzone idea is... stupid. Even though I've used it myself to describe how some people operate, its only out of habit. If you ask a girl out and she rejects you, yet goes out with someone "worse" than you, their are many possible reasons;

 

1) She knows the person is acting the way they do for a reason and they might not be as "bad" as they seem. This was the case between my first girlfriend and I; she told me that she first rejected me because of my angry outbursts, nonchalant attitude, and tendency to be violent but after talking to my friends, she decided to go out with me instead of another friend (at the time he was an acquaintance).

 

2) You could be worse than you think. People usually don't see the negative sides of their personalities as negative, instead only looking at the positive side of the negative aspect.

 

3) She's simply not interested, You know its possible. That "douchebag" might be more interesting than you.

 

4) She could be a "fix-it" kind of girl; meaning that she doesn't want to give up on someone until there desirable.

 

5) She could be clingy and/ or you're obsessive.

 

Can't think of anything else right now.

[Koko 3,944]

If you can find /legitimate proof/, not just opinions, that the term is sexist, then I will back down. Until then, I will keep defending everyone who has used the term, both guys /and/ girls,from your childish, accusatory actions.

 

Guys are not perfect, girls aren't perfect either. Not all guys want sex, and not all girls are innocent and timid. Some girls even have the decency to come on a public forum and accuse most of the male population of being sexist for using a phrase that both sexes share. The phrase itself is not sexist. Its the /intent/ behind it that gives it definition.

 

You see something, and claim that its wrong. Then you go places and spout off and think your actions are just. Then someone like me comes along with actual common logic and an open mind and tries to get you to see that you, yourself are wrong. Girls who use it are just clingy, while guys who use it are downright disgusting sexist pigs? That's the /intent/ I am seeing with your posts and to me, thats just wrong.

 

Okay, first of all, this has nothing to do with facts, but with the opinions one or many holds. If you have the opinion that women are below you, that is sexist. That is not a fact, that is an opinion. If you have the opinion that black people are below you, that is racist. Racism and sexism and ableism has to do with privileged and that privileged gives people distorted opinions.

 

Never did I say all guys were jerks or all girls were innocent. People are people and people are flawed but that does not mean they can not be educated.

 

Never did I accuse the whole male population that they were sexist, but I did indeed say that the term is sexist because of the connotation behind it that will never be rid of, no matter how hard you try.

 

You are misinterpreting my words and are getting offended over nothing. You are not using common logic, you're just upset at well, the truth.

And I never said that girls who use it were clinging.

Here listen to me closely

What I said was

 

If girls befriend a guy in order to pursue a relationship, they are clingy.

Guys are never seen this way.

Ever.

If girls friendzones a guy, she's a bitch.

If a guy friendzones a girl, she's clingy.

It's a lose-lose for females either way.

 

The point that you are missing is that the term is sexist due to the connotation behind it, and there's no denying that. Just because everyone uses it doesn't make it right. It's like saying you're going to defend people who use racist terms because EVERYONE uses it, so that makes it okay, right? No. That's not how it works.

 

Also, it seems I need to quote this again because you're not getting it.

 

Was all our time together really wasted because there was no hypothetical pay off?

Guys who do this and claim to be “nice guys” are the worst misogynists because of their sense of entitlement toward a woman. They make investments in property and expect their dividends. They are fake friends. They are selfish. And they will jump at the chance to vilify you and victimize themselves when their attempts at manipulation don’t work. Clearly, “friendzone” is the remnant of a phenomenon that has plagued women since the beginning of time: women are not independent creatures. Our love lives exist only in the context of a man’s desire. When we make independent decisions, we are subject to a host of derogatory terms. “Slut” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “yes”. “Friendzone” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “no”

 

 

Accusing a girl of friendzoning is the same as calling her a slut. So unless you support slut shaming and victim blaming, I don't see why you're trying to prove that the friendzone isn't sexist.

 

I'm not aiming this at anyone, except to those guilty of being those misogynistic assholes. If you are not under that category, then all I ask is that you don't firetrucking use the term and move on.

[DragonMaster 1,166]

I don't believe I said this was referring to all guys

It's unfair to lump all guys together

But sadly, a majority of guys are this way.

 

To claim that something is a majority, one must have proof, otherwise it is a generalization. No matter what your personal experience, that isn't a way to indicate real data. In my experience, most girls just don't try in Phys Ed class. Does that mean I can claim a majority of girls are lazy and do nothing during their gym class? No, and something tells me that you would disagree with that, being both a female and one who isn't lazy (if your status updates about working out are anything to go by). Generalizations are a form of ignorance from which discrimination grows. Perhaps replace "majority" with "some" or "many" or "a fair amount", as that would not only be more fair, but also be less hypocritical.

 

No offense, as I am sure that you meant nothing by it, and I'm not trying to start an argument. Just was a bit... ticked off, I suppose, on how this topic is all for equal treatment and no discrimination (which I am all for) but containing a statement that was rather opposite that purpose.

[Koko 3,944]

To claim that something is a majority, one must have proof, otherwise it is a generalization. No matter what your personal experience, that isn't a way to indicate real data. In my experience, most girls just don't try in Phys Ed class. Does that mean I can claim a majority of girls are lazy and do nothing during their gym class? No, and something tells me that you would disagree with that, being both a female and one who isn't lazy (if your status updates about working out are anything to go by). Generalizations are a form of ignorance from which discrimination grows. Perhaps replace "majority" with "some" or "many" or "a fair amount", as that would not only be more fair, but also be less hypocritical.

 

No offense, as I am sure that you meant nothing by it, and I'm not trying to start an argument. Just was a bit... ticked off, I suppose, on how this topic is all for equal treatment and no discrimination (which I am all for) but containing a statement that was rather opposite that purpose.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't intend it that way! Sometimes my thinking process is a little to fast for my hands so when I type things out, they don't always come out the way I mean it.

But I agree with you, thanks for pointing it out to me (:

[Godot 513]

''it's her choice in the end and it's no one's business except hers''

 

I'm sorry but if a girl willingly choose to date an asshole instead a guy who truly cares for her then she's not very bright.And no the guy she chooses to date is not an asshole just because he was chosen over the friendzoned guy.I talking about a legit jerk who mistreats her.

 

or maybe she just (spoiler warning!!) doesn't have feelings for the other guy.

 

 

@OP: this whole concept is pretty much how I got into my last relationship. one of my close friends had had a crush on me for a while, and kept buying me expensive things even when I said no, and kept playing the "I'm just a nice guy why do all of the girls i like date asshole le sobbu" card. and when I broke up with him, some of our mutual friends even acted like I somehow did something wrong, and that I was a horrible person for not having feelings for him.