Canon or Non-Canon

[Zenithia 305]

tutti frutti. After watching a handful of clips regarding the secret bosses, I just have to ask this question to get it out of my system. Do you think that the secret bosses of the series should be canon to the series? I believe that there may have been a topic about this some time ago, but couldn't find it. With the secret bosses, I more so mean the following: Xemnas (Unknown), Lingering Sentiment, Vanitas Remnant, MF, Armor of the Master, and No Heart. So far, at least Xemnas and the Lingering Sentiment both have been in a game after the one they were originally introduced in. (Xemnas from KHFM to KH2 and LS from KH2FM to BBS/BBSFM) Thoughts and comments on your opinions.

[Rob 5,571]

Other than the secret bosses being spoilers for the next game, yes, they should be canon, but if they're in a place that's not canon like Mirage Arena, then no, unless they can some way be fit into the story.

[Iamkingdomhearts1000 1,170]

I think like they are sort of previews to the next chapter in the Xehanort Saga.

[Key2Oblivion 37]

Well only some should be. Like you didn't mention Kurt Zisa(is that how you spell it), Phantom, Sephiroth, and Ice Titan. So people like that shouldn't be, but if they make an appearance in a later game then they should be canon.

[Azure Flame 670]

Well, in KH2 Sephiroth acts like he never met Sora, which means his appearance in KH1 isn't canon. Xemnas fight has been confirmed to be canon, as cutscenes from it appear in KH2, as well as the part where Xemnas meets Roxas and said "I've been to see him." I don't believe the Terra fight has been confirmed yet. The MF fight has been confirmed to be non-canon, but the character itself is. As for VLS, I haven't seen anything saying it is or isn't. For the Mirage Arena fights, they are non-canon, as Mirage Arena is just a Multiplayer arena world, and non-canon itself. However, they were going to have it be canon and have Laguna be the Arena master, but were told they could only have him in either BBS, or Dissida Duodecim, and as we all know they went with Duodecim.

[Tails 6,692]

Well, in KH2 Sephiroth acts like he never met Sora, which means his appearance in KH1 isn't canon. Xemnas fight has been confirmed to be canon, as cutscenes from it appear in KH2, as well as the part where Xemnas meets Roxas and said "I've been to see him." I don't believe the Terra fight has been confirmed yet. The MF fight has been confirmed to be non-canon, but the character itself is. As for VLS, I haven't seen anything saying it is or isn't. For the Mirage Arena fights, they are non-canon, as Mirage Arena is just a Multiplayer arena world, and non-canon itself. However, they were going to have it be canon and have Laguna be the Arena master, but were told they could only have him in either BBS, or Dissida Duodecim, and as we all know they went with Duodecim.

 

Actually, the fight with Terra's LS is considered canon because of the cutscene between Sora and LS. He mentioned his friends Aqua and Ven and showed Sora what had happened before his body was stolen from him (A.K.A the KH2FM secret ending). Also, here's a little fun fact. Tifa was origionally planned to be appear in KH1 in the Olympus Coliseum cup tournaments but was later replaced with Sephiroth.

[Rob 5,571]

Well, in KH2 Sephiroth acts like he never met Sora, which means his appearance in KH1 isn't canon. Xemnas fight has been confirmed to be canon, as cutscenes from it appear in KH2, as well as the part where Xemnas meets Roxas and said "I've been to see him." I don't believe the Terra fight has been confirmed yet. The MF fight has been confirmed to be non-canon, but the character itself is. As for VLS, I haven't seen anything saying it is or isn't. For the Mirage Arena fights, they are non-canon, as Mirage Arena is just a Multiplayer arena world, and non-canon itself. However, they were going to have it be canon and have Laguna be the Arena master, but were told they could only have him in either BBS, or Dissida Duodecim, and as we all know they went with Duodecim.

 

Vanitas LS is canon.

[Queen Tery 4,591]

i hope theyre canon. i want to find out who mystery figure is! lol most of them should be canon, though, with the exception of kurt zisa, phantom, sephiroth and any mirage arena boss fights.

[Azure Flame 670]

i hope theyre canon. i want to find out who mystery figure is! lol most of them should be canon, though, with the exception of kurt zisa, phantom, sephiroth and any mirage arena boss fights.

 

MF is canon, but the fight with him in BBS isn't.

[Zenithia 305]

Other than the secret bosses being spoilers for the next game, yes, they should be canon, but if they're in a place that's not canon like Mirage Arena, then no, unless they can some way be fit into the story.

 

tutti frutti. That's a good point about the mirage arena. But just in case somebody complained about leaving No Heart and Armor of the Master out, then at least they are included.

 

Well only some should be. Like you didn't mention Kurt Zisa(is that how you spell it), Phantom, Sephiroth, and Ice Titan. So people like that shouldn't be, but if they make an appearance in a later game then they should be canon.

 

I mostly wanted to just include those that I listed. I didn't want to include all of the "superbosses," since to me the list would have included the data Org. XIII, along with the ones you mention. Sephiroth was more so included with a small idea of FF7, instead of the KH2 storyline, but that depends on the views of everyone. And I have a hard time picturing Kurt Zisa, and Phantom into the story in any major way. Ice titan could be included with the Olympus Coliseum, but I guess that's up to SE and Disney to decide that.

[Azure Flame 670]

I mostly wanted to just include those that I listed. I didn't want to include all of the "superbosses," since to me the list would have included the data Org. XIII, along with the ones you mention. Sephiroth was more so included with a small idea of FF7, instead of the KH2 storyline, but that depends on the views of everyone. And I have a hard time picturing Kurt Zisa, and Phantom into the story in any major way. Ice titan could be included with the Olympus Coliseum, but I guess that's up to SE and Disney to decide that.

 

And Kurt Zisa was named after a kid that won a contest.

[Zenithia 305]

tutti frutti. I know about the naming contest, and nothing against the person that the Heartless was named after. I find it a great name if anything. But Kurt Zisa wasn't featured in any other game outside of KH1. This is more so since Xemnas and Terra(Lingering Sentiment) were in one game and were later feature in another game.

[Zenithia 305]

Well only some should be. Like you didn't mention Kurt Zisa(is that how you spell it), Phantom, Sephiroth, and Ice Titan. So people like that shouldn't be, but if they make an appearance in a later game then they should be canon.

 

tutti frutti. Ice Titan was included in KHBBS. But in regards to this thread, this is namely those that I have listed.

[Azure Flame 670]

tutti frutti. Ice Titan was included in KHBBS. But in regards to this thread, this is namely those that I have listed.

 

Actually, it was a copy of the titan, as Hades couldn't get the real Titans until KH1, which is why you fight a couple of them.

[Rob 5,571]

Actually, it was a copy of the titan, as Hades couldn't get the real Titans until KH1, which is why you fight a couple of them.

 

Plus, it way weaker.

[Queen Tery 4,591]

MF is canon, but the fight with him in BBS isn't.

 

where did you find that information? can you provide a URL please?

[hatok 6,413]

It's pretty silly to say a character is canon, but the fight with them isn't. If a character is canon, it means they exist. The enemies you fight in any of the games are all canon. That's not what's important. The only acknowledged canon secret boss I can name is Xemnas in KH1. Since there have been no games after BBS or KH2 that show whether their secret bosses actually have any bearing on the plot.

[Razorwind Keyblade 304]

MF is canon, but the fight with him in BBS isn't.

 

Funny because I recall a lot of people saying that it is canon (I agree with you though).

[Azure Flame 670]

Funny because I recall a lot of people saying that it is canon (I agree with you though).

 

I remember reading an interview somewhere (can't remember where) were Nomura said that the fight itself didn't happen, but the character is real. The fight was just an added bonus to reveal the character, kinda like Armor of the Master and No Heart were just to show Eraqus and Xehanort's armors.

[Rob 5,571]

I remember reading an interview somewhere (can't remember where)

 

Of course you couldn't have read it on this site. lol

[Azure Flame 670]

It was an interview from this site, actually. I just don't remember which one.

[Rob 5,571]

It was an interview from this site, actually. I just don't remember which one.

 

I know......because I read it, too. lol

[Zenithia 305]

It's pretty silly to say a character is canon, but the fight with them isn't. If a character is canon, it means they exist. The enemies you fight in any of the games are all canon. That's not what's important. The only acknowledged canon secret boss I can name is Xemnas in KH1. Since there have been no games after BBS or KH2 that show whether their secret bosses actually have any bearing on the plot.

 

tutti frutti. I agre with Hatok about the whole character not being canon ordeal. If a character is in the came, let alone if you fight them, then I think that they should be considered canon in the series. In Sephiroth's case, for those of you who consider him canon, I believe that in the tournament some contenders may not always remember those that they come across in a coliseum tournament, more so if they are not widely known in the tournament. And Sephiroth may have heard about the Keyblade after the events of KH1. Kurt Zisa and Phantom could be like other Heartless in general where they could come back at a later point in the series.

 

MF I don't really see how his fight was non-canon. To me, it's sort of like how the whole incident with Xemnas in KH1FM didn't even exist, to a degree. MF should be considered canon if you fight him at a point in the game.

[Oishii 3,987]

It's hard to say because a lot of these bosses you need to beat the game first before you can fight them. If they are canon, then it's hard to figure out where in the timeline the fight happened. At least with KHFM, after you visited Hollow Bastion once, you can go back and fight Xemnas. And it makes sense! But with BBS (And LS in KHIIFM), it's hard to figure out when these fights would have happened because none of the characters should exist in the Realm of Light anymore. If they make it canon later, that's one of the problems they'll have to work out.

[Zenithia 305]

It's hard to say because a lot of these bosses you need to beat the game first before you can fight them. If they are canon, then it's hard to figure out where in the timeline the fight happened. At least with KHFM, after you visited Hollow Bastion once, you can go back and fight Xemnas. And it makes sense! But with BBS (And LS in KHIIFM), it's hard to figure out when these fights would have happened because none of the characters should exist in the Realm of Light anymore. If they make it canon later, that's one of the problems they'll have to work out.

 

tutti frutti. What you stated makes sense. It definitely is hard to determine what the character in question really did appear in the game. Though one of my major guesses to doing that is that for those of us who would have played the game the first playthrough may have been thrown off due to the gameplay and story. For this example I'm going to pick on MF in BBS. If we started off play roughly a couple hours into the game, despited whoever in this game we play as, then we may thrown off as to why MF is in LoD and may have mistaken him as Eraqus or MX (yes, I know MX wore the same outfit at an earlier point in the game, this is just an example) Also, due to story, I believe that it was to help prevent us from believing that those like MF were the "actual" story final boss in some way.