More MoM Answers Than You Even Want

[Double OKP 171]

19 hours ago, setsugekka said:

The Persona series didn't invent the concept of personas and shadows. It's getting late here so I can't talk much, but I think you'll enjoy reading some of this.

I read most of it......gosh, THAT's cOnFuSiNg. Not sure I fully understand it lol.

Hmmm......something I'm wondering is: if the MoM and Yozora are the shadows of Demyx and Sora, then how do they coexist? Yozora exists and is from the realm of Quadratum, so his case could be understandable, but the MoM is not from there; he exists in the KH side of reality. Well.......I guess the MoM is implied to be from somewhere else so......*shrugs* 

But hmm............
 

I'm getting confused about the Radiant Garden/Hollow Bastion arks all over again. In 0.2 Fragmentary Passage, Mickey says this when he finds Kingdom Key ?

Quote

"The door to darkness...tied by two keys. The door of darkness...to seal the light.

And......this is from the words on the controls of the RG/HW arks.

It's like it's a prophecy from the Book of Prophecies.

BUT THEN WHO THE HECK BUILT THOSE ARKS AND PUT THAT INSCRIPTION ON THERE?!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm just.......so confused.........

edit: I found this line, not sure if it has any significance:

Quote

Young Xehanort: One heart's shadows fill the emptiness of another.

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Double OKP

[setsugekka 162]

6 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Hmmm......something I'm wondering is: if the MoM and Yozora are the shadows of Demyx and Sora, then how do they coexist? Yozora exists and is from the realm of Quadratum, so his case could be understandable, but the MoM is not from there; he exists in the KH side of reality. Well.......I guess the MoM is implied to be from somewhere else so......*shrugs* 

It's definitely confusing... But I think I can make sense of it, even if it's just a guess.

I think that the fictional world could be a place where the things inside of people's hearts and imaginations manifest and become real in their own way. So it could be a parallel world like the Metaverse in Persona where everyone's shadows roam around. People who look inside themselves and accept their shadows undergo the process of individualization, meaning that the shadow and persona merge together and the person becomes their truest self. That's why I don't expect everyone to have another self. Some (or most?) people are probably already in harmony with their inner selves and don't have any questions about their own identity.

Although the shadows physically manifest in the other world, they're technically always inside of a person. Probably. That's what I think, anyway. So Sora could have potentially connected with Yozora sooner if he'd been aware of him. However, I do have some questions about why Yozora is perceived as a video game character in the Toy Box world... I'm not sure if that detail is making things more confusing than they need to be.

That aside... I feel like it makes sense for Sora to have a shadow. He's gone through so many experiences that affected his heart. He became a heartless, he created a Nobody, he lost his memories, he's had so many other people inside of his heart... He probably has a few questions about who HE really is. He may think he knows himself, but perhaps Sora is just a persona - he is who he thinks he is, but he isn't his truest self. In contrast to Sora, Yozora seems a little darker and more cynical. He got impatient with Sora really quickly. He might represent the parts of Sora that he's refused to acknowledge about himself.

...I'm going to have to go back and look at what Xemnas was telling Sora in DDD. Doesn't this sound like that? Remember, when he was asking Sora if he was really sure if he knew himself or something??

I think that Demyx was overtaken by his own shadow...

Quote

According to Jung, the shadow sometimes overwhelms a person's actions; for example, when the conscious mind is shocked, confused, or paralyzed by indecision. "A man who is possessed by his shadow is always standing in his own light and falling into his own traps...living below his own level." Hence, in terms of the story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, "it must be Jekyll, the conscious personality, who integrates the shadow ... and not vice versa. Otherwise the conscious becomes the slave of the autonomous shadow."

It's funny because I've considered Jekyll and Hyde before. lol Demyx would be like Jekyll who's being controlled by Hyde, the MoM.

I'm very curious about what his memories will reveal... Because if he's anything like Jack...

Quote

Jack: Hey, Player. Right now, the world is full of fear, isn’t it?
Jack: At times like this, what we need are laughs, but… I can’t make everyone laugh by myself.
Jack: Even though I said it was supposed to be my role to lighten the mood and to make sure that everyone was happy–
Jack: I’m totally useless when it matters.
Jack: So, Player. Could you give me your help?
Jack: How about we fight together and put an end to Tempus Finis? You and I can surely do it together.
Jack: …Did it sound like I was trying too hard to sound cool? Eheheh.

Then I understand how the MoM could have emerged and taken control of him. Despite being the strongest cadet, Jack was still unable to save the world. He considered his positive attitude to be his strongest asset, so when that failed to help anyone, he felt useless. So if Demyx was really the one who fought in the first keyblade war and experienced such hopelessness, then the MoM may have taken his place. Maybe he saw his chance and did so maliciously, or maybe it was a move to protect Demyx's psyche. Or, heck, maybe something so traumatic occurred, it actually forced his mind to split in half. The MoM's theme song sounds chaotic enough to suggest something like that.

The MoM seems to represent Jack's most positive qualities (cunning, strong) while Demyx embodies his most negative qualities (lazy, cowardly). A shadow isn't always all negative, particularly in people who fail to see their own good qualities due to trauma, low self-esteem, etc.

I don't know how Demyx ended up losing his heart, but I guess we don't know how Elrena and Lauriam lost their hearts, either. lol The MoM's a little crazy, so I don't think it's absurd to assume that he did that to himself. Luxord is really mysterious... How could someone from the fictional world come to the real world? I don't think that all of the people in the fictional world are shadows of other people. They might have been created from the thoughts of people in the real world or something like that. Like in Persona, there are a lot of shadows that are actually based on popular ideas held in the collective unconscious, such as mythological creatures.

Shibuya was used as a metaphor for the collective consciousness in TWEWY, btw. The people of Shibuya are always trying to stay on top of the trends so they'll fit in. That desire to fit in gets taken advantage of, so the people who lacked a strong sense of individuality (self) end up being brainwashed. Neku has the ability to "scan" people and listen to their thoughts. With that ability, you can see how easily their sense of self is influenced. It's chilling when everyone starts to think the same way.

Anyway, who knows. This whole idea might be off base. LOL I'm just feelin' sumthin'.

 

6 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I'm getting confused about the Radiant Garden/Hollow Bastion arks all over again.

I feel like this might be one of those things that gets a handwave explanation... I just can't imagine how it's supposed to make sense without doing more wild guessing...

Edited April 11, 2021 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

22 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I think that the fictional world could be a place where the things inside of people's hearts and imaginations manifest and become real in their own way. So it could be a parallel world like the Metaverse in Persona where everyone's shadows roam around. People who look inside themselves and accept their shadows undergo the process of individualization, meaning that the shadow and persona merge together and the person becomes their truest self. That's why I don't expect everyone to have another self. Some (or most?) people are probably already in harmony with their inner selves and don't have any questions about their own identity.

Makes sense. Gosh, this 'fictional world' is already so confusing even with the little info we have lol

22 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I don't know how Demyx ended up losing his heart, but I guess we don't know how Elrena and Lauriam lost their hearts, either.

I was thinking about this for a while. Hmm........maybe, whoever uses the arks gets their pieces rearranged? Like how [Player]'s pieces got rearranged and he got switched out by his 'other version' (assuming that theory is correct)? So, in that process, Elrena's and Lauriam's hearts got lost......maybe??

Speaking of which, I was thinking of how the Union Leaders lost their memories. It couldn't have been the arks, as Maleficent used one and she didn't lose her memories. Perhaps, the Union Leaders' pieces were rearranged not 100% correctly?

*shrug* Just speculation..........

22 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Luxord is really mysterious... How could someone from the fictional world come to the real world?

I knooooooow............everything about him confuses me..........but.....what I'm still wondering\:

......What.....what the heck does he have to do with any of the ancient Keyblade wielders?? What made Xehanort think he could be one?? I mean, that line Xemnas was something like Xehanort was searching for ancient Keyblade wielders among Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene, right?? But then it was revealed that Xehanort himself was having dreams of the ancient past, so he would know who the ancient Keyblade wielders were........unless, he just didn't realize that his dreams were of the age of fairytales.........???? But that wouldn't make sense..........right?????

Edited April 12, 2021 by Double OKP

[setsugekka 162]

53 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Speaking of which, I was thinking of how the Union Leaders lost their memories. It couldn't have been the arks, as Maleficent used one and she didn't lose her memories. Perhaps, the Union Leaders' pieces were rearranged not 100% correctly?

Well, that sounds like a possibility... There's gotta be a reason for that...

4 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

I mean, that line Xemnas was something like Xehanort was searching for ancient Keyblade wielders among Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, and Larxene, right?? But then it was revealed that Xehanort himself was having dreams of the ancient past, so he would know who the ancient Keyblade wielders were........unless, he just didn't realize that his dreams were of the age of fairytales.........???? But that wouldn't make sense..........right?????

Oof, my head literally started to hurt as soon as I started thinking about this. LOL

Hm... It seems like Xehanort was looking for the dandelions - that even includes Subject X. Xehanort managed to hold onto his memories thanks to his other self, but the others all lost their memories somehow. So even if he gathered them all together, it was like they hadn't really been reunited because they couldn't remember each other. So "looking for the keyblade wielder(s) among you" might mean that he wanted to reawaken their memories as keyblade wielders. It's a slight stretch to read into his words that way, but like you said, he should've already known that they were keyblade wielders, so there was no question of whether they were or not......... Unless he was referring to Demyx and/or Luxord as well.

Demyx was the first new member to join the Organization, after all. That seems kind of significant to me. Do you think Xehanort eventually realized what was going on with his dreams of Player? Did he realize that he was someone else inside, so he started to suspect that there were other people like himself? (Actually... I could be wrong, but I feel like there was a line like that in khdr.) Demyx seemed totally worthless, let's be real. lol But maybe Xehanort/Xemnas noticed his similarity to the MoM and kept him around in the hopes of seeing his other side? Seriously, why else would Xemnas accept someone like him in the Organization?? As the first new member, no less!

I feel like Luxord's mysteriousness is reason enough for Xemnas to accept him. LOL He probably showed up under some very strange circumstances.

Did we ever decide whether Luxord had his memories or not? I'm not sure I can tell... I can't think of anything that made me think that he lost his memories besides the fact that he never talked about his past.

I mentioned how I think Demyx's name could be "Melody", but I keep thinking about MoM being called "Memory." It just feels so fitting if he's the one who has Demyx's memories... It's a little cheesy, but I love it. Melody and Memory... We literally have a character called "Brain", so that's not even a weird name. LOL The name "Memory" seems like something that would've made young Xehanort react the way he did when the MoM told him his name. Even better if he told him TWO NAMES. That would've definitely left him confused.

[Double OKP 171]

14 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Oof, my head literally started to hurt as soon as I started thinking about this. LOL

EXACTLY LOL

There's millions of things to remember and I'm forgetting some of them. I totally was tripping myself up.

Haaaa okay, Xehanort did know that his dreams were of the age of fairytales. Nomura said that he knew that Ventus was an ancient Keyblade wielder from the very beginning......which could only mean he knew the truth of his dreams. Totally forgot about that.
 

Twitter user @lunesacree translated this section in the KHIII Ultimania. 

Quote

In KH3, Xemnas explains that the reason ex-Organization members No. 9-12 were invited to the Organization was to search for (the ancient Keyblade wielders). (note: this could mean a specific ancient Keyblade wielder, which we now know Ansem SoD was searching for, or that one or all of those four members are also ancient Keyblade wielders.) The reason they were called together was because Xehanort thought that the ancient Keyblade wielders held the secret to the past fight of light and darkness—the Keyblade War.

WHICH..............confuses me all over again. LOL 

'Xehanort thought that the ancient Keyblade wielders held the secret to the past fight of light and darkness'.........Ansem SoD also said that about Subject X. But......

but WHY???

Xehanort already has the dreams of that time; wouldn't he know the truth about it? He has dreams of [Player], who was literally in the middle of the battlefield during the War.

All this is confusing..........

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

So "looking for the keyblade wielder(s) among you" might mean that he wanted to reawaken their memories as keyblade wielders.

This makes the most sense right now. Just considering other things......just jumbles my mind up LOL

But still.........what about that mysterious Luxord???? What does he have to do with any of this?????

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Actually... I could be wrong, but I feel like there was a line like that in khdr.

Hmm....the closest I can think of is:

Quote

I never really thought about who I was. Not until I began to wonder who others were.

 

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

But maybe Xehanort/Xemnas noticed his similarity to the MoM and kept him around in the hopes of seeing his other side?

That's what I was thinking. From what Xehanort said in Re:Mind:

Quote

I never learned who he was, and perhaps I never will.

it sounds like he was searching for him then. 

15 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Did we ever decide whether Luxord had his memories or not? I'm not sure I can tell... I can't think of anything that made me think that he lost his memories besides the fact that he never talked about his past.

HMMM.......it's super hard to tell. But....HMMMM.....I have a feeling he still has his memories, but who knows lol. 

I kinda just realized, but members 9-12 never talked about their past. Weird.

[setsugekka 162]

20 hours ago, Double OKP said:

'Xehanort thought that the ancient Keyblade wielders held the secret to the past fight of light and darkness'.........Ansem SoD also said that about Subject X. But......

but WHY???

This is an interesting point worth looking into... I remember Xemnas saying something about them "revealing their secret" in English, but then that line wasn't there in Japanese. So if this translator is saying that the Ultimania said this, then that makes me curious. I can't remember what Ansem SoD said (in either language lol) so I'll have to find it. Do you remember which scene, specifically? I think that would be my first place to look just to see if I could get a new impression.

If this is true, though, what "secret" about the war was he trying to uncover...? Like you said, if Xehanort had Player's memories, why would he have needed Skuld's? Was it just to confirm that the things he dreamed about were real memories? That seems too simple... Did Skuld have a memory that nobody else had? ...Maybe it IS that simple. It's like he was trying to expose a conspiracy.

I'm still curious if their whole world is made of data... Or something like that... Like, maybe there is some DEEPER level that Xehanort was scratching the surface of and he needed his friends from the past so they could share what they knew in order to figure out what's REALLY going on.

20 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I never really thought about who I was. Not until I began to wonder who others were.

Oh, right! That must be the line I was thinking of. That line gives me the impression that he started questioning his own identity because he started questioning other people the same way... Like the MoM, for instance. lol

YMX came out and asked him "Who are you, really?" Maybe he was actually thinking about himself and his own situation when he asked him that. If the MoM and Demyx are in the midst of their own identity crisis, then maybe that's why he responded so evasively...

21 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I kinda just realized, but members 9-12 never talked about their past. Weird.

Yeah, isn't that weird?  Strangely, I don't think anyone even got the impression that they didn't remember their pasts until khux made it clear that they had some sort of amnesia. It seemed like Nomura just hadn't developed backstories for them until then. If there's one thing people can confidently praise Nomura for, it's his ability to leave convenient loose ends for himself.

[Double OKP 171]

1 hour ago, setsugekka said:

This is an interesting point worth looking into... I remember Xemnas saying something about them "revealing their secret" in English, but then that line wasn't there in Japanese. So if this translator is saying that the Ultimania said this, then that makes me curious. I can't remember what Ansem SoD said (in either language lol) so I'll have to find it. Do you remember which scene, specifically? I think that would be my first place to look just to see if I could get a new impression.

Yeah.......in English, Xemnas says they will reveal their 'greatest secret'. 

So the scene where he talks about Subject X, it's when he and Ansem the Wise are at the haunted mansion in Twilight Town. (Wait, he says 'mystery' instead of 'secret'.....but still....) He says 

Quote

The child's memory holds a mystery to unravel - one concerning the battle we seek between light and darkness.

In Japanese it's:

Quote

きっと　あの子記憶に謎がある　
我々光と闇の戦いに大きく関与する記憶が

(From all the Japanese I know, looks like it says about the same thing)

But.......but what more does Xehanort need to know?? What does he NOT know?????????

edit: I remembered that Xehanort was curious about something in BBS so I went to take a look. He says:

Quote

But darkness did cover the world once, in legend. We know so little about the Keyblade War - only that it was just the beginning. Amidst that crisis a precious light was found. It is a curious tale - and one worth exploring. They say ruin brings about creation. So what, then, would another Keyblade War bring? When the darkness falls will we be found worthy of the precious light the legend speaks of? I must have these answers. The χ-blade needs to be forged, and with it, the door to the Keyblade War unlocked!

I feel like Nomura just retconned this, because Xehanort knows A LOT about the Keyblade War already.......right?? Maybe?? I dunno

Edited April 13, 2021 by Double OKP

[setsugekka 162]

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

I feel like Nomura just retconned this, because Xehanort knows A LOT about the Keyblade War already.......right?? Maybe?? I dunno

I think he can get away with it because it's still questionable how much Xehanort actually remembers. I get the impression that he figured out that he was Player, but he may not have had ALL of Player's memories. Maybe he was only able to remember bits and pieces in his dreams.

The "precious light" sounds like it could be referring to the "true dandelion" to me now. More specifically, the light in Ventus. But it's very confusing to hear him talk about it this way. You've already got the light right there, Xehanort! ...Unless he thought that another keyblade war would bring about another light, which would be Sora, I guess? We'll have to look at those lines again in the future because I feel like they aren't going to hold up perfectly.

I get the feeling that there's going to be some kind of big twist involving the first keyblade war. Personally, I have my fingers crossed for more Agito XIIi references. But there really is a lot that we don't know about it... It's essentially the MoM's past. So maybe that's what Xehanort really wanted to know about; what were the circumstances of the very first keyblade war??

[Double OKP 171]

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Maybe he was only able to remember bits and pieces in his dreams.

Hmm.......maybe. Xehanort says: "As if I’m experiencing a life that belonged to someone else." From that, i get the impression that he experienced most, if not all, of [Player]'s life.

Hmm....well....I guess he also says: "I’ve been having the same dream over and over again for as long as I can remember." 

Wait, the same dream. 

So it's always the same dream..........but how much of [Player]'s experiences is in that one dream I wonder.......????

3 hours ago, setsugekka said:

So maybe that's what Xehanort really wanted to know about; what were the circumstances of the very first keyblade war??

Wait....but how would Xehanort figure out there was the first Keyblade War? The only people who are aware of that are the MoM and Luxu, right??

I guess the MoM himself could've told him about it. *shrugs*

[setsugekka 162]

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

So it's always the same dream..........but how much of [Player]'s experiences is in that one dream I wonder.......????

Hm... That is some curious wording. I didn't take that too literally at first, but you might be right. It might be just those few flashes from Player's life on repeat.

2 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Wait....but how would Xehanort figure out there was the first Keyblade War? The only people who are aware of that are the MoM and Luxu, right??

Oh, drat, you're right. I read "But darkness did cover the world once, in legend" and it made me think of the old, old, OLD war for some reason. Regardless, that's something that everybody's going to have to find out about eventually. It seems like Xehanort had keyblade war related questions. So what was he going to uncover with the help of Subject X and the others??? Xehanort, rise from the grave and EXPLAIN yourself!!

Edited April 14, 2021 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

On 4/14/2021 at 1:12 AM, setsugekka said:

It seems like Xehanort had keyblade war related questions. So what was he going to uncover with the help of Subject X and the others??? Xehanort, rise from the grave and EXPLAIN yourself!!

As much as I don't want to see that old man again........HE NEEDS TO COME BACK AND EXPLAIN EVERYTHING LOL. He left too many mysteries behind. *SIGH*

AAAH but what more is he trying to figure out??!! I watched the beginning segment of DR again, and it gives me the impression that Xehanort dreamed the entirety of χ[chi]. Then, we see that flashback of Brain and the others at the hill........which was an event that [Player] wasn't present. HMMMMMMMMMMMM..........which would mean that he dreamt some, if not all, of Union χ[Cross]. But this is getting me all confused all over again. If he indeed experienced the entirety of χ[chi], what more does he need to know about the Keyblade War???? And he certainly knows much MUCH more than the Union kids even did about the Keyblade War; the MoM HIMSELF told Xehanort more about the Lost Masters and the behind-the-scenes-aka-Back-Cover. So WHAT..............

It's actually possible he experienced the WHOLE ENTIRETY of [Player]'s life, not just those segments. Even in our real world, dreams have different timing compared to the real world. I remember myself having a considerably long dream but when I woke up it was only five minutes passed. 

GOSH old man, how much did you dream?!?!?!??!! That would give us a clue at least!!!

AACKKKKK, I remember this OTHER LINE in KHMoM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Xehanort says to Kairi:

Quote

I'm afraid the answer you seek lies in memories long gone.

Hmmmmm......I checked the Japanese, and it seems to imply he's talking about her [Kairi's] memories that are long gone. heh heh heh, ACCORDING TO GOOGLE AND AUTO TRANSLATE ANYWAY

But what if.....well, it just made me wonder if he was talking about the memories and secrets of the age of fairytales, and how the MoM has something to do with all this. *SIGH* This probably doesn't have anything to do with this after all, but..........

Speaking of the beginning scenes of DR, Xehanort says he 'feels like falling through the sky', right? And that is similar to how Sora falls through the sky to the Station of Awakening of Dive to the Heart. I just realized that the music playing in the '[Player]'s life' flashbacks is the same soundtrack as the one that plays during Dive to the Heart. Those flashbacks........they're memories. In KHIII, what happens to be at Sora's Dive to the Heart?

Sora's memories. And 'dreams hold memories'. Dive to the Heart is a place framed within a dream. 

*sigh* i'm confusin meself

huh?

HUH???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those things that frame Sora's memories!!!!!!!!!!!! They look familiar!!!!!

L-look!!

It's the same as the things that frame the chapters in the KH novels!!!!!!!!!! Except, from all the novels I have, these only appear in the KH3 novels!!!

Reminding me how the age of fairytales is portrayed like a book.......but this probably doesn't mean anything.........right??????????

me poor mind's explodin

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Double OKP

[setsugekka 162]

5 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Speaking of the beginning scenes of DR, Xehanort says he 'feels like falling through the sky', right? And that is similar to how Sora falls through the sky to the Station of Awakening of Dive to the Heart.

Hold on... I think... you're on to something...

Why does Sora's station appear when Yozora decides to attack him? And why does the station turn into the roof of a building in Quadratum?

In a way, doesn't it seem similar to Sora's fight with Roxas? I mean... Really, that's a good question, isn't it? WHY DID SORA'S STATION APPEAR?? WHY DOES IT TURN INTO SOMETHING FROM YOZORA'S SIDE?? Am I saying that Yozora and Sora are the same? I think I'm saying that they're the same!

It would be interesting if we got to play as Yozora for a while in the next game, particularly if the ending where Sora loses was the true ending. If the two are the same, then Yozora's victory could represent him overtaking Sora and becoming the new "him" the way that Player became Xehanort. ...Have I finally gone crazy or does it feel like this is starting to make more sense? I feel like this could actually happen. lol

(edit: Still thinking about it. Maybe the reason why there are two endings is because they're the same. Both endings, in a way, are the same if you believe that Sora and Yozora are the same person. This doesn't sound terribly far-fetched to me...)

The windows with Sora's memories are interesting, too... Now that my mind is on Roxas, it's making me think of the beginning of KH2 with the machine that was rebuilding Sora's memories. idk if that's what it's supposed to remind me of, though. But it serves a similar purpose in the game bc it makes the players think about all the experiences you've had as Sora in all the games.

Thinking about the prologue again just reminded me of that weird Darkside again... My best guess with that thing is still that it's a whole new type of enemy. Hmm...

Edited April 16, 2021 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

In a way, doesn't it seem similar to Sora's fight with Roxas? I mean... Really, that's a good question, isn't it? WHY DID SORA'S STATION APPEAR?? WHY DOES IT TURN INTO SOMETHING FROM YOZORA'S SIDE?? Am I saying that Yozora and Sora are the same? I think I'm saying that they're the same!

My head......me head!!!!!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

me tryin to piece all this together

Gosh, this is confusing stuff. Seriously.

Is.........is it that they're two sides of the same coin? 'Yozora' means 'night sky', Sora means 'sky'. Hmmm.........would Sora represent 'day' sky then? If so, we know day and night can never meet each other. When one side of Earth is day, the other side is night. 

The other side.............Sora exists on the side we are familiar with, Yozora exists on the other side of Sora's reality.

But........if they can never meet, HOW did they MEET????

Huuuuuuuuuh, there's....there's just one piece that's missing or it's hidden in plain sight!!

That fight was actually similar to Sora's fight with Roxas! Sora is in a nighttime city with lots of skyscrapers, then encounters Roxas on his Station of Awakening. Then, Sora is in the Final World, encounters Yozora, his Station appears, then Final World becomes nighttime city with lots of skyscrapers. The order of events differs, but the setting is eerily similar.

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

If the two are the same, then Yozora's victory could represent him overtaking Sora and becoming the new "him" the way that Player became Xehanort. ...Have I finally gone crazy or does it feel like this is starting to make more sense? I feel like this could actually happen. lol

hmmmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I think that could actually happen!!! 

But, for some reason, that makes me wonder........about that extremely fishy Luxord-driver-whatever-his-name-is. He's involved with those two.

Luxord is Mr. Driver for Yozora. Luxord gave Sora a joker card, which Nomura said is the key to his survival. Someone told Yozora to save Sora.

Wait...................

Did Luxord tell Yozora to save Sora? And in order to do that, Yozora needs to overtake Sora and use the joker card for something?? 

Nah, this is just speculation at best. Something doesn't fit.

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

(edit: Still thinking about it. Maybe the reason why there are two endings is because they're the same. Both endings, in a way, are the same if you believe that Sora and Yozora are the same person. This doesn't sound terribly far-fetched to me...)

Hmmmmmmm

But.......if when Yozora defeats Sora, and that causes Yozora to overtake Sora, then wouldn't it be the same vice-versa? But Yozora still wakes up. *SIGH* I feel like a huge dummy right now

There's something really strange about those endings. The one Sora wins introduces Luxord-driver and ends with the new ending quote 'Oath to Return'. But........why.....why doesn't the other one?

AAAh so confusin
 

Speaking of Roxas.........

Okay, I'm almost positive I have this wrong, and I have NO idea if this has to do with anything, but whatever.

So, ever since unreality was described as 'the other side', whenever I see 'other side', it catches my eye. Now, there's one spot that I remember it. It's way back in Re:CoM, actually. Said by Vexen:

Quote

This place was created solely from another side of your memory. It is on the other side of your heart that this place exists.

The other side of Sora's heart, in this case, is Roxas. But, Roxas is a completely different person, right?? How was that memory there? Roxas was existing just at that moment; his heart wasn't with Sora.

If Sora never created a Nobody the way he did, and created a Nobody the 'normal' way, then Roxas wouldn't have existed; Sora's soul would be in that Nobody. But, well, Sora did create a Nobody the way he did. His Nobody and himself are different souls, different hearts. Yet, they're the same. In a way, right?

(I just got reminded of how the Organization members were calling Sora 'Roxas', and he got all confused. Then that reminds me of Hamm and Rex calling Sora 'Yozora', and he got all confused.......)

So, Roxas is a completely different person, but the same. Sora created another version of himself, which was........Roxas. Roxas isn't Sora's shadow, though. Just a different version.

I'm probably wrong about all this, but it got my brain a-thinkin

 

edit: We probably are going to get more information after all.

Did you see the UX news?!?!?!

Nomura's planning something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe even for E3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited April 16, 2021 by Double OKP

[setsugekka 162]

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Huuuuuuuuuh, there's....there's just one piece that's missing or it's hidden in plain sight!!

It's gotta have something to do with dreams, right...? Hm... And the fact that Yozora seems like he could even be separate from Sora... There's gotta be something we just don't know yet. Like, maybe Yozora was part of Sora at one point, but he got splintered off because of how many hearts--

WAIT. ISN'T THAT WHAT XIGBAR WAS TALKING ABOUT?

He said that if Sora kept connecting his heart to other people's, some of those hearts were bound to end up "breaking", right? Am I just suddenly making something out of nothing...? I don't recall us ever finding out exactly what he meant by that... I don't think Xigbar would've known about Yozora or anything, but he might've known that what Sora was doing would have dire consequences for his own heart.

(edit) I really got excited there... But I just listened to that scene in Japanese and it's totally different. It sounds like he's just referring to the way that connections can be positive and negative things. OH WELL.

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

(I just got reminded of how the Organization members were calling Sora 'Roxas', and he got all confused. Then that reminds me of Hamm and Rex calling Sora 'Yozora', and he got all confused.......)

So, Roxas is a completely different person, but the same. Sora created another version of himself, which was........Roxas. Roxas isn't Sora's shadow, though. Just a different version.

I'm probably wrong about all this, but it got my brain a-thinkin

idk, I think that's actually a really good point about how the Organization kept calling him "Roxas." I'm surprised I hadn't thought of that similarity. It seems so obvious to me now.

Vexen's quotes, though confusing, were probably referring to Roxas at the time. His choice of words also makes me think of "Another side, Another story" which was the secret ending of KH1 featuring Roxas. There's something about that ending that reminds me of the KH3 secret ending... Roxas arrives in the World That Never Was while it's raining. Sora wakes up in Quadratum after it's apparently rained. Riku is standing on top of a building watching Roxas below. MoM and Yozora are standing on top of buildings watching Sora and Riku below.

In the end of "deep dive" (Which, thinking about it now, is an interesting name in itself) iirc, Xemnas says to Roxas "I went to see him. He looks just like you." But I always thought that was strange. Roxas and Sora don't look alike, imo. Maybe just the face? idk, it gives more more of those Yozora vibes with how the Toy Box guys seem to think Sora actually LOOKS like him.

Edited April 16, 2021 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

21 hours ago, setsugekka said:

(edit) I really got excited there... But I just listened to that scene in Japanese and it's totally different. It sounds like he's just referring to the way that connections can be positive and negative things. OH WELL.

WHAT????

That 'hearts-breaking' line wasn't even existent?!

Ah man.........I totally thought that would be important in some way.

*SIGH*

21 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Vexen's quotes, though confusing, were probably referring to Roxas at the time. His choice of words also makes me think of "Another side, Another story" which was the secret ending of KH1 featuring Roxas. There's something about that ending that reminds me of the KH3 secret ending... Roxas arrives in the World That Never Was while it's raining. Sora wakes up in Quadratum after it's apparently rained. Riku is standing on top of a building watching Roxas below. MoM and Yozora are standing on top of buildings watching Sora and Riku below.

Vexen was definitely talking about Roxas.

It's strange that there are these coincidental (or is it?) similarities with Roxas and Yozora's relationship to Sora. Perhaps there's a clue...........

21 hours ago, setsugekka said:

But I always thought that was strange. Roxas and Sora don't look alike, imo. Maybe just the face? idk, it gives more more of those Yozora vibes with how the Toy Box guys seem to think Sora actually LOOKS like him.

Yeah.........I always found that strange. They don't look alike in any way (with the exception of their faces)!! Nobodies usually look almost exactly like their original selves, right???? How come no one even bothered to notice that Sora's Nobody didn't look like Sora???? I still don't get it lol

And then Yozora! They absolutely do NOT look alike in any way!! So why'd Hamm and Rex mistake Sora for Yozora?!?!?!

W-why?!?!?!?!

Something's fishy.........

[setsugekka 162]

14 hours ago, Double OKP said:

That 'hearts-breaking' line wasn't even existent?!

Yeeeeah... Here's that whole exchange:

Sora: But that doesn't change the good intentions of Hercules' actions!
Xigbar: When one person's self-sacrifice leads to another person's self-sacrifice, we just call that a chain of losses.
Xigbar: If one part of the chain breaks, the whole thing falls apart, one could say.
Xigbar: Those connected hearts you love so much are the same way.
Xigbar: Oh, of course, I'm sure that they're what "give you strength."
Xigbar: But on the other hand, you shouldn't forget the possibility that those who are connected to you might suffer and feel burdened.

I feel like they totally botched this metaphor and turned it into something confusing. lol

As he's walking away, he tells Sora "In the end, you may even understand your destiny. The finish line might be closer than you realize."

I get a stronger impression from this that the "destiny" he was referring to was something predetermined by the MoM's plan. It's really stupid that Sora says "...What reward?" in English. In Japanese, he goes "My destiny...?"

Is it any wonder people get confused by so many lines in this game??

[Double OKP 171]

52 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

Yeeeeah... Here's that whole exchange:

W-w-whhhhhhYYYY?!??!?!!? That's completely different!!!!! In the English version, Xigbar says, "If you put too much of that power in one place..." But that doesn't even make sense; that always confused me (well.....in a way, it could make sense, but it's just super confusing and mind-wrecking to see how it makes sense). And then to find out that wasn't even there...........LOL

Oh my gosh.........

i looked at that scene myself and the part where Xigbar [in the English translation] says, "In fact, your reward might be around the corner"...........

The Japanese........it's literally 'ゴール'.

Literally.

I mean.........PFFFT, why do the translators have to change that word when it's literally English?!?! They did that in the Luxord death scene too; they put 'wild card' instead of what the original was, which was 'ジョーカー'. Fortunately, that one wasn't as major, and sure, wild card and joker card can be the same, but a wild card can be different things and a joker card can be different things as well, which could cause different interpretations. Like, why do they even change those kinds of words when's there's no need to actually 'translate' them????? Isn't that extra work???????????

I....I seriously......don't get it.

AH. Some weeks ago, I was Google Translate-ing (*SIGH* literally the only thing I can actually use lol) some of the Organization members' death scenes and GOSH, there's sometimes completely different stuff!!!

1 hour ago, setsugekka said:

Is it any wonder people get confused by so many lines in this game??

No. No it's absolutely, totally not a wonder. At all.

I.....I just.......ARGH this is just SUPER frustrating and irritating!! I wanna know what Nomura ACTUALLY wrote!!! 

*SIGH* I'm inwardly shouting at myself to hurry up and master Japanese already so I can see what's actually written. lol

[setsugekka 162]

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

The Japanese........it's literally 'ゴール'.

Well, I changed "goal" to "finish line" to make it clearer, since "goal" can also mean like... "the goal of the plan" or something. So I see where their mind was with "around the corner", but the part about the "reward" added unnecessary confusion. I still see people wondering what Sora's "reward" was supposed to be...

3 hours ago, Double OKP said:

They did that in the Luxord death scene too; they put 'wild card' instead of what the original was, which was 'ジョーカー'.

This is another one I can understand, but... I do wonder if there's going to be a distinction later. I know that the word "joker" is interesting to Nomura. I've been having a fun time reading the Type-0 Ultimania and here's something he said...

Quote

Were you the one who came up with the characters' names this time, Nomura-san?

Nomura: Chiba (the lead scenario writer) was the one who came up with Machina and Rem's names, but I was the one who came up with the names for the rest of Class Zero. I wanted to make them sound like codenames, and when I was looking for a cohesive set of 13, I came upon the names of playing cards. Because "Joker" sounded so enigmatic to me, I thought "This'll be good." I had already drawn the illustrations of the characters, so I applied the names of the cards while looking at each of their faces.

So, you already know what I think - he turned Lean Joker into Luxu. But there are some other interesting things here. First of all, this makes it sound like he came up with Lean's name first, which is wild since Lean wasn't even a playable character in the end. He wasn't even part of the illustration that Nomura was talking about. But also, I feel like he probably used the same method to come up with the Foretellers' names.

By the way, the more I read from the Ultimania, the more apparent it is that Type-0 wasn't JUST Tabata's game like most people seem to think. I've had a bunch of people tell me "Ehhh, I don't think this has anything to do with KH because Tabata was the director of that one." Sure, Tabata was the director, but Nomura was still very involved. I just found out that he's also the one who chose the weapons for each character. Apparently he was even present during voice recording.

According to this, he was also extremely enamored by the designs of the moogles - so much, he wanted to make matching moogles for Versus XIII. I think I already compared the Type-0 moogles to Chirithies at some point. The way that they're like little guides for the kids and they wear matching clothes... He was really into that. lol

Anyway, I still feel like "fool" and "joker" are keywords, but I can't figure out what this is supposed to meeean for the card. The Type-0 Ultimania also said: "Joker, as the name implies, is one who is to be used as a replacement when any of the 12 are missing during the experiment." Which is clever. Almost makes him sound like he's a benched Organization member. But idk if that helps us. lol I'm just throwing things out there and hoping it'll make you think of something.

[Double OKP 171]

23 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Well, I changed "goal" to "finish line" to make it clearer, since "goal" can also mean like... "the goal of the plan" or something. So I see where their mind was with "around the corner", but the part about the "reward" added unnecessary confusion. I still see people wondering what Sora's "reward" was supposed to be...

I mean, yeah, if it makes it clearer, then it's fine for it to be changed. But 'reward'?? Like........pfft, what the heck?! lol

23 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Anyway, I still feel like "fool" and "joker" are keywords, but I can't figure out what this is supposed to meeean for the card. The Type-0 Ultimania also said: "Joker, as the name implies, is one who is to be used as a replacement when any of the 12 are missing during the experiment." Which is clever.

Hmmmmmm...............

Haa, I was thinking and thinking but I honestly don't know a thing what that card could be about. But, Luxu/Xigbar must have some connection to it, right?? [Part of] Luxu's role was to act as a fool desirous for the Keyblade and Xigbar's character file is called 'The Fool'. And, according to Wikipedia, in Tarot and Tarock card games(I don't know what those are), the Joker card is often compared to the Fool card, as they share many similarities in appearance and play function.

Exactly what connection Luxu has to that card, I have no clue.

Something on Wikipedia that caught my eye about '(the) Fool':

Quote

The Fool is titled Le Mat in the Tarot of Marseilles, and Il Matto in most Italian language tarot decks. These archaic words mean "the madman" or "the beggar", and may be related to the word for 'checkmate' in relation to the original use of tarot cards for gaming purposes.[1]

'Checkmate'

Now this has gotta do with that chessboard?!?!

Ay, no way.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Double OKP

[setsugekka 162]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:59 PM, Double OKP said:

Exactly what connection Luxu has to that card, I have no clue.

Probably just the fact that he's the KH version of Lean. If I were Nomura, I'd be making Joker references all over him. But since that might make the connection to Type-0 too obvious, he picked a different yet equivalent card, The Fool.

On 4/18/2021 at 11:59 PM, Double OKP said:

'Checkmate'

Now this has gotta do with that chessboard?!?!

There are a lot of details associated with the Fool and Joker that make me wonder... Honestly, I don't know what's relevant anymore. lol

In particular, those cards have connections to the theories of Carl Jung, Jungian archetypes, and the monomyth. Yep, I'm thinking about Vexen's character file story again, the one where he referred to Sora and Demyx as fools. The Fool is considered the "hero" or protagonist of the tarot. It feels like Nomura's doing something with that, but it's SO incredibly hard to tell if it's intentional because the monomyth itself is universal. It's just a fact that Sora represents the heroic archetype who follows the hero's journey.

Quote

In narratology and comparative mythology, the hero's journey, or the monomyth, is the common template of stories that involve a hero who goes on an adventure, is victorious in a decisive crisis, and comes home changed or transformed.

The question is, is Nomura actually trying to use this fact to make a point? lol For instance, is he trying to express that Sora's existence as a FICTIONAL CHARACTER is inherently tragic because he's fated to follow this archetype as the protagonist? Or am I making this deeper than he is?

There's a well known book about the monomyth called "The Hero with a Thousand Faces." HOW DOES THAT TITLE MAKE YOU FEEL? lol (I'm implying that he and Yozora - and even Noctis - are all essentially the same in a narrative sense because of their role as protagonists. One guy. A thousand faces.)

...........I JUST REMEMBERED THAT UNRAVELED MADE A WHOLE VIDEO ABOUT THIS FOR KINGDOM HEARTS. LMAO

This, of course, brings me back to what I was saying some time ago about MoM/Demyx being the "trickster" of the story, another interpretation of the Fool. The trickster and hero have some overlap. Sometimes they're the same thing. Jack, Demyx, and the MoM could all be considered tricksters. ...But is Nomura trying to draw our attention to this for a reeeeason??

Actually... Speaking of Jack. One of the words I see frequently in his profiles is douke (道化) which means clown/fool/jester. The English localization decided to make up the title "Class Clown Zero" for him, which... Sounds a little stupid to me, but sure. lol They've got the right idea.

The whole "reverse/upright" thing with the khux medals definitely makes me think that this was some intentional lampshading, since it's an obvious tarot reference. Every tarot card has a reverse side with different meanings. Initially, I thought "Sora is the Fool in upright and Demyx is the Fool is reverse." But I could also consider them both being upright with Yozora and MoM as their reverse sides.

I DON'T KNOW... Maybe this is all symbolically in service of the new "fictional world" arc. Or maybe it's nothing. *throws my hands in the air*

I feel like I'm just rambling and repeating myself because my thoughts keep circling around this same train of thought. Each time, it's just sliiiightly different.

(edit) As soon as I hit "post", I remembered this...

Edited April 20, 2021 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

22 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Yep, I'm thinking about Vexen's character file story again, the one where he referred to Sora and Demyx as fools.

I totally forgot about that! I read it again to see for a potential clue, and......*SIGH* it's just so confusing. Just like everything else.

22 hours ago, setsugekka said:

(I'm implying that he and Yozora - and even Noctis - are all essentially the same in a narrative sense because of their role as protagonists. One guy. A thousand faces.)

...........I JUST REMEMBERED THAT UNRAVELED MADE A WHOLE VIDEO ABOUT THIS FOR KINGDOM HEARTS. LMAO

That's. Definitely. Confusing.

But it makes sense at the same time.

Thank goodness, the guy in the video (I have no idea who he is lol) KNEW WHAT UX WAS! 

22 hours ago, setsugekka said:

The whole "reverse/upright" thing with the khux medals definitely makes me think that this was some intentional lampshading, since it's an obvious tarot reference. Every tarot card has a reverse side with different meanings. Initially, I thought "Sora is the Fool in upright and Demyx is the Fool is reverse." But I could also consider them both being upright with Yozora and MoM as their reverse sides.

Hmmmmm.........I searched up what the [keywords] meanings of the upright and reversed versions of the Fool card are, and it's:

Quote

Upright: beginnings, innocence, leap of faith, originality, spontaneity, a free spirit

Reversed: chaos, folly, lack of direction, naivety, poor judgement, stupidity, holding back, recklessness, risk-taking

I don't know if this has anything to do with anything, or if they have to do anything with KH, but....... *shrugs*

The Upright traits definitely match with Sora and (maybe?) Demyx. But the Reversed with Yozora and the MoM? me dunno

22 hours ago, setsugekka said:

(edit) As soon as I hit "post", I remembered this...

OH YEAH!!

Now I have no clue what to make of anything. LOL

Edited April 21, 2021 by Double OKP

[Double OKP 171]

Well..........Strelitzia.........ummm.........lol. Typical Nomura. At least it makes sense, but I still have mixed feelings about it.

And six Darknesses........pretty interesting as KH is always using seven and thirteen. Not sure what to make of it.

So there are four (besides the one in Ven) Darknesses still in the data worlds. I searched and found appearances of dark figures behind/emanating from individuals:

1). Queen of Hearts - Wonderland

2). Gaston - Beast's Castle

3). Cinderella's Stepmother - Castle of Dreams

4). Hades - Olympus Coliseum

The other worlds in UX (Agrabah, Dwarf Woodlands, Enchanted Dominion, and Game Central Station) had nothing that looked like Darkness. So....the numbers match up.

Now this has me thinking. In DR, Xehanort encounters a thing-that-looks-very-much-like-a-Darkness in Wonderland, but if it were actually one of those Darknesses, then it shouldn't be in the real world. It's already heavily implied that Xehanort and crew are visiting the same data worlds from UX, since Emblem Heartless were appearing in Agrabah, and this further supports the idea as four Darknesses were left trapped in the data (unless something wrong happens in Part 2 of the finale). The only question I have is how are the DR lower classmen and upper classmen accessing them???

(Something that I found hilarious in this update was that instance where Darkness says "Silence!". Out of curiosity, I searched the meaning of the word used in the Japanese version, and it was an extremely rude version of "shut up" LOL. Sometimes I wish the localization wasn't too strict with language)

[setsugekka 162]

18 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Well..........Strelitzia.........ummm.........lol. Typical Nomura. At least it makes sense, but I still have mixed feelings about it.

Yeah... Uh... I have some questions about that. That wasn't what we expected, but we did count it as a possibility. lol Mainly, I wanna know if that was the REAL Strelitzia or a data version of her. Since Roxas was reconstructed from data, I'm starting to think that a "data copy" of someone is supposed to be just as good as the original person... even though that gives me a lot of bad existential feelings........... (But if it turns out that EVERYTHING was data anyway, then sure, I guess it really would all be "just as good.")

It also turned out that we weren't necessarily wrong about Ephemer and Player being the two left behind. I'm still feeling pretty confident that Skuld will be the one who takes the one remaining pod in that room, leaving the two by themselves in the data world - which will become like a dream world once it enters sleep mode.

18 hours ago, Double OKP said:

So there are four (besides the one in Ven) Darknesses still in the data worlds. I searched and found appearances of dark figures behind/emanating from individuals:

OH... That's interesting... Very good catch. I hadn't even thought about where they could be right now. But I did think of who they probably originally belonged to.

I was wondering what happened to them. It always felt weird to me that Nomura would only take half of this group. So, if this is right, then MoM and his six "old friends" would be Jack, Ace, Cater, Cinque, Sice, Seven, and King - an "original seven", if you will.

Remember in the KH3 novels (I think it was that?) how Vanitas remembered something from the distant past where he awoke in the keyblade graveyard, but he felt like he came from someone other than Ventus? Alright, now you remember how Vanitas "disappeared" at the end of KH3? Ten to one, it was only his physical body that was defeated by Sora. That brat's gonna come back looking like Ace. I just know it. lol

18 hours ago, Double OKP said:

The only question I have is how are the DR lower classmen and upper classmen accessing them???

I like how these are the questions that you have. because I have a totally different set of questions. lol Keep thinking about that, though! I haven't figured that out, either.

What *I* wanna know is... Why did EPHEMER receive the Master Defender???

The only thing I thought of was this sequence...

So... Alright. It's a "guiding key." It was there for Sora to find. Sora found it after saying "May my heart be my guiding key" or whatever.

Listen, I'm... I'm still not entirely unconvinced that Sora and Ephemer aren't the same person. lol If Ephemer and Player stay behind in the data world after it enters sleep mode, then perhaps the sensation Xehanort had of "falling through the sky" was a drop? Sora experienced the same thing. But that would imply that the real world is also a type of dream world. That wouldn't really surprise me. I've been thinking that the war might've been repeating and the world might've kept starting over because it was actually asleep.

I don't know why they'd look different, though... I mean, I guess it's possible that they aren't literally the same people, but there definitely seems to be a connection... Whatever's going on with them, I suppose MoM could've done the same thing in order to appear as Demyx.

I really don't know how the keyblade went from Ephemer to Eraqus, though...

I was reading the secret reports about Subject X again, and I saw this...

Quote

I had no answer to offer them. Four friends, and a key...that is the sum total of my memory. I could not even recall my name.

I assume that the "four friends" must be the ones who left before her in the other pods. The "key" might be referring to the Master Defender. Maybe Ephemer gives it to her to protect her or something, but then it gets lost in transit? lol I really don't know... I doubt that it's simply referring to her own keyblade.

edit: Wait... Is SKULD the one Luxu gives the No Name to???????

Edited May 3, 2021 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Yeah... Uh... I have some questions about that. That wasn't what we expected, but we did count it as a possibility. lol Mainly, I wanna know if that was the REAL Strelitzia or a data version of her. Since Roxas was reconstructed from data, I'm starting to think that a "data copy" of someone is supposed to be just as good as the original person... even though that gives me a lot of bad existential feelings........... (But if it turns out that EVERYTHING was data anyway, then sure, I guess it really would all be "just as good.")

There's no way that was the real Strelitzia.....right?? Strelitzia's last moments take place after the bells ring, because of how Strelitzia's Chirithy sees [Player] and Skuld entering the abandoned house. But at that time, Luxu and Ava were conversing and clashing on the hill overlooking Daybreak Town. If it were actually the real Strelitzia, Luxu would've have had to get over there, snatch her heart (her body clearly disappeared so his only other option is to get her heart), and..........yeeeeah like that's possible lol. 

But if it were the data Strelitzia (most likely is), that would be very very very very VERY WEIRD, to me at least. Like, it's not really HER.......I dunno.

Hmmm.......Roxas's case was a bit different. The data was used for his body, not his heart:

Quote

Q: How was Roxas able to come back?

Nomura: Using the replica body Vexen and Demyx prepared, Ienzo used the data from the fake Twilight Town to mostly complete Roxas’ body. 

 

5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I was wondering what happened to them. It always felt weird to me that Nomura would only take half of this group. So, if this is right, then MoM and his six "old friends" would be Jack, Ace, Cater, Cinque, Sice, Seven, and King - an "original seven", if you will.

Hmm! 

But in the KH sense, I still wonder how the MoM and the Darknesses are 'old friends'. Didn't the MoM say he and some other wielders were battling against the Darknesses in the first Keyblade War?? AH I want to know more about that first War!!

(Oh no I just thought of something. Since the Darknesses took the form of humans in the first War............what if some of them pretended to be the MoM's allies but betrayed him later? Eh me probably wrong) 

5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

Remember in the KH3 novels (I think it was that?) how Vanitas remembered something from the distant past where he awoke in the keyblade graveyard, but he felt like he came from someone other than Ventus? Alright, now you remember how Vanitas "disappeared" at the end of KH3? Ten to one, it was only his physical body that was defeated by Sora. That brat's gonna come back looking like Ace. I just know it. lol

Yeah, in the second volume of the KH3 novels he says:

Quote

There's a tiny sliver of a memory inside of me - a memory from long, long ago, from a distant past. But...why? I disappeared back in the Keyblade Graveyard, and somehow, I already knew that place. 
Who did that memory belong to? Me? Ventus? Or someone else? 

...Who am I, really? I am half of Ventus. I am - 

Wait.....is he saying he already knew about the Keyblade Graveyard? or he already knew the place he dreamed of even though he disappeared momentarily? I'm confused. 

AH also in his character file, he says he came from emptiness....not darkness. It's like he's something completely different.

Oh my gosh, if he comes back looking like Ace.......lol. I think I'd go nuts.

5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I haven't figured that out, either.

The only way I can think of is if they access its slumbering state just like a normal Sleeping World. But.....that world is totally not a normal Sleeping World though. Hmmm........

OH WAIT

In the third episode of DR, Baldr says:

Quote

It doesn't feel like a trip to broaden their horizons. Maybe the trip itself is the test.

If the upper classmen were actually sent to the Sleeping Worlds of the data versions of the UX worlds, and if Baldr's speculation is true.........then it'd be [almost] exactly how Sora and Riku's Exam was like! They were sent to Sleeping Worlds as well! 

HMMMMMM

5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

What *I* wanna know is... Why did EPHEMER receive the Master Defender???

The only thing I thought of was this sequence...

(for some reason Goofy looks super funny to me in that first shot lol)

*sigh*......I've been thinking, but I have absolutely no idea what to make of it. HMMMMMM

Something I completely do not understand about that KH3 scene is.......why is the Master's Defender there at that moment??? Aqua left it on the shore of Destiny Islands just when the Islands were being restored way back at the end of KHI. So.....it should've been on the beach there this whole time. But how come it isn't???? 

(for a split second, a theory of there being two Master's Defenders popped in my head, but I don't think it makes sense)

5 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I assume that the "four friends" must be the ones who left before her in the other pods. The "key" might be referring to the Master Defender. Maybe Ephemer gives it to her to protect her or something, but then it gets lost in transit? lol I really don't know... I doubt that it's simply referring to her own keyblade.

Oh maybe! That would actually make a lot of sense. 

Speaking of those Secret Reports.......

What.......what in the world's going on with the last Secret Reports????????? The 'virus' does not match up AT ALL; the impostor, who Luxu calls the virus, was Ventus, but right now, Brain is the one who's planning to get them to escape. Then, Luxu says that he watched the Five [Union Leaders] being sent to another worldline. But.......Elrena's one of the ones who gets sent to the 'different worldline', and she's not one of the Five Union Leaders.

Are those last Reports self-contradicting or something??? They don't make any sense at all lol

Edited May 3, 2021 by Double OKP

[setsugekka 162]

1 minute ago, Double OKP said:

Hmmm.......Roxas's case was a bit different. The data was used for his body, not his heart:

Riiight... I realized that a little while after I said that. Still, I'm kinda concerned about what they were implying when they brought up the fact that copies of themselves still existed in the data world. What purpose is that supposed to serve...?

4 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Wait.....is he saying he already knew about the Keyblade Graveyard? or he already knew the place he dreamed of even though he disappeared momentarily? I'm confused. 

I think he was referring to when he disappeared in BBS. He's saying that he recognized the keyblade graveyard even before then. I think he says "I am half of Ventus" because he's trying to reaffirm his sense of who he believes he is - but he might've been wrong this whole time...

I'm getting really excited about the thought of him being "Ace". lol I always loved every member of Class Zero, but now I've got a new interest in them!

42 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

If the upper classmen were actually sent to the Sleeping Worlds of the data versions of the UX worlds, and if Baldr's speculation is true.........then it'd be [almost] exactly how Sora and Riku's Exam was like! They were sent to Sleeping Worlds as well! 

Wow, that makes sense...

It makes me wonder who Odin really is... He couldn't be Brain, right? I still feel pretty sure that Brain was Eraqus's grandpa. But if Odin were Brain, then that should've been obvious by now, right? We've had no indication that Eraqus is related to Odin...

I guess Odin could just be a new character who was friends with Brain or something, so he knew about the sleeping world, and he sent the kids there so they could wake the world up. Something like that.

10 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Something I completely do not understand about that KH3 scene is.......why is the Master's Defender there at that moment??? Aqua left it on the shore of Destiny Islands just when the Islands were being restored way back at the end of KHI. So.....it should've been on the beach there this whole time. But how come it isn't???? 

(for a split second, a theory of there being two Master's Defenders popped in my head, but I don't think it makes sense)

LEGIT, I wondered if there could've been two Master's Defenders. LOL But it made my brain twist into a pretzel when I tried to figure out how that would work, so... Yyyeeeah, maybe not...

I'm trying not to think too hard about how the keyblade stayed on the shore. lol Like you said, it doesn't make the most sense.

12 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Are those last Reports self-contradicting or something??? They don't make any sense at all lol

Well... Brain said that he would "become the virus in the MoM's program" or whatever. The wording sure makes it sound like Luxu must've been talking about Ventus first... But maybe it's in the sense that Ventus also became like a virus due to Ava and Brain's meddling?? That's kinda convoluted, though. It seems like it's either poorly worded or wrong.

If I could find these in Japanese, I'd like to see what they originally say for "the Five." I have a feeling it might've just been "the five" with, like, a lowercase F. Nothing special about it. Just any five kids, not necessarily the five new union leaders. The assumptions of the localizer might've been what messed that one up.