More MoM Answers Than You Even Want

[setsugekka 162]

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Jack: …*sighs* It seems like the time’s come.
Jack: Are you scared, Player? Don’t worry. I’m here.
Jack: We’re just going to sleep for a little while. And when we wake up, we’ll be in another world. Even if we lose our memories, we won’t change.
Jack: And then let’s aim to become Agito together again. May we always be smiling…

2.4.2022: I've collected all of the most relevant information and put it into one comprehensive doc.
It's 95 pages,  but it's an enjoyable ready if I do say so myself.

This is going to include a lot of Final Fantasy Agito and Type-0 spoilers. Probably no Melody of Memory spoilers? I'm going to dissect the MoM's identity at length. idk if you could interpret that concept as a spoiler, so... Use your discretion.

Like Final Fantasy Versus XIII which became Final Fantasy XV, Final Fantasy Agito XIII became "Final Fantasy Type-0." The game was part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis series and was meant to serve as the "ancient past" of Versus XIII. Needless to say, that never came to be the case when the Fabula Nova Crystallis was broken apart.

In 2014, a mobile game called "Final Fantasy Agito" was released. It followed the original concept of Agito XIII. It was discontinued in 2015 without reaching its proper ending and the Vita port which had been planned was cancelled for reasons unexplained. The game is now a piece of lost media, but Japanese transcriptions of the main story as well as various screenshots of character events still exist online. I've taken the liberty to translate the whole main story on my tumblr blog (nanakibh) and I've been trying to translate as many of the character events as I can find, but a lot of it is just gone and will probably never be seen again.

In a sentence, the game is about a war that continually ends the world.

This is going to take a little while, but I'm going to explain the whole thing. Because why not? You need to know this. I'm tired of seeing people not know this. Feel free to tell your local YouTube Men about this so that everybody can know. It's gonna be a while until the next game, so I wanna save you some time thinking about theories that go nowhere.

The MoM did a fairly decent job of spoiling the ending of Agito when he told Luxu about his past. I've seen people try to squint and apply it to things we've already seen in Kingdom Hearts, but... No, that was really a word-for-word description of stuff that happens in the climax of this story.

In the world of Agito, there are Agito cadets, candidates who aim to become "Agito", the name of the legendary savior of the world. Which is to say, (Phil voice) they all wanna be HEROES. The cadets attend a school on an island. The school, town, and island are collectively known as Akademeia. Akademeia is in the country of Rubrum.

Time for a little tour of the most khux-relevant places.

When you arrive at Akademeia, you'll see a fountain in front of you. It's a common meeting place for students. Many conversations are held here. At the center of the fountain is a phoenix, "the Vermilion Bird", the animal symbol of Rubrum. Each country is represented by one of the four mythical Chinese beasts. You know, like Unions. Though, I think that each cadet class is more along the lines of being what Unions are. They're all kind of competing and working towards the same goal. There are thirteen cadet classes with 0 being the most auspicious and 12 being, like, the loser bin.

When the Player joins Akademeia, they're welcomed into Class Twelfth. In the first world, Tohno and Jack are members of Class Twelfth.

When you enter the main hall, there's a prominent clock. What's it for? I don't know. But time is a very relevant symbol. I can tell you right now that time is a lie.

  

I've pointed this out before, but I'm bringing it back. It's always worth bringing this back. This is a window from the Chancellor's room, located on another floor of Akademeia that the player can't access. You can see it in cutscenes in Type-0, most notably the opening sequence. It's the same design as the Daybreak Town clock tower. If more people had taken this as the clue it's clearly meant to be, we could've all solved this a lot faster. Come on, folks, there are more games in the FNC than just Versus XIII. lol You can also find this design in the artbook.

Another variation of the design is found at the back of the classroom. The classroom is where lectures are held, but it's also where students frequently have to meet to receive mission briefings. There are also hearts on those banners. *shrugs* Because sure, why not. Kingdom Hearts.

Behind the classroom, there's a garden. That's where you'll find Deuce, tending to her flowers. She grows special white flowers that mean "the arrival of happiness" and "reuniting with someone you love." Familiar concept.

Behind the garden is the cemetery where they bury those who die in the war. That's where you'll usually find Tohno, a mysterious girl with long black hair. When the world ends and starts over, everyone forgets, but there are a few who remember, and she's one of them. Her memories are of great interest to the resident scientist, Kazusa. (She's the "Skuld" one, clearly.)

Out on the terrace, you can see the whole town down below. That's where you'll always find Jack, standing in his signature pose with his hands behind his head. This is who we're looking for! This is the boy!! Ahhh, what a cutie. If you couldn't already tell, he looks a lot like Demyx. He also has the same voice actor in Japanese.

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Jack: What’s up~? You’re staring at me so intensely… Is there something on my face~?
Jack: Or could this be– Love at first sight?
Jack: Hahaha, it was just a joooke! Come on, don’t look at me so disapprovingly~

See, conceptually, it's just... You get it? Yeah. Nomura's a funny man.

The final battle that ends the world also happens to take place on that terrace.

Final Fantasy Agito begins at the start of the first war. Type-0 takes place in the 600+ MILLIONTH world, so Agito's really goin' all the way back to the beginning.

Just when it looks like the war has come to a close, the sky suddenly turns red. Mysterious creatures appear from nowhere and begin slaughtering everyone indiscriminately. No one knows what they are. Monsters? Soldiers? Nobody knows. And they're never given any answers. Because they die. (God, I recommend reading this part the most. I cry every time, especially in the third world when Lean is with them... The hopelessness is real.)

At that time, Jack is the only one who notices that there's something wrong with Miyu, the Cadet Representative, the girl who acted as the cadets' leader.

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Jack: Ah, Player.
Jack: Doesn’t it seem like there’s something strange about the Rep? Almost like she’s a different person…
Jack: Everybody’s saying that Tempus Finis has come, but the Rep is the only one we can rely on at such a time, isn’t she~

Alas, even if he'd spoken up sooner, that wouldn't have changed anything...

Miyu had been possessed by an unknown entity. The entity (Gala) is never given a name in Agito. It's just referred to as just "???" When it isn't possessing someone, it looks like formless darkness. In Type-0, Gala has a masked form similar to Vanitas, but he has no form in Agito like Darkness.

Miyu was transformed into a type of l'Cie known as the "Judge." The Judge's Focus, also known as a "role" (seriously, it's the same word in Japanese), was to conduct trials to test whether the real Agito (the savior of the world) had been born in that world. If they hadn't, it was the Judge's job to end the world and make it start all over again in the hopes that Agito would be born the next time.

Eyes are a symbol of the Judge. They're all over the place in the final dungeon of Type-0. In Agito, the Judge's l'Cie brand appears over their eye.

The Judge is different every time. So, say, even if Jack managed to remember that Miyu was the one who became the Judge, he would've been wrong about who the traitor was in the second world. Ace was the one who got possessed instead. Tohno had her eye on Miyu, so she was totally thrown off guard when it turned out to be Ace.

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Tohno: Player… I told everyone about Ace.
Tohno: He’ll surely be coming here soon. So let me tell you what I just realized.
Tohno: In the previous world, the Representative ended the world as the Judge. But when I think about it now, I think she was being controlled by something.
Tohno: And in this world, Ace became the Judge. Now I finally understand–
Tohno: The one who becomes the Judge isn’t decided from the beginning.

I've got a lot of thoughts about Darkness here, but I'm gonna keep them to myself and continue with the story.

So just a quick recap: Miyu is the traitor of the first world. Ace is the traitor of the second world. I know that's just two worlds, but it's a lot to think about.

Corporate needs you to find the difference between these two images.

Ace shares a number of similarities with Ventus, so seeing him getting possessed by Ye Olde Unknown Entity is kind of amusing. Ace was known as "the one closest to (becoming) Agito." In a Kingdom Hearts sense, that's gonna make sense in a second and should illuminate the reason why Ventus is so special.

Anyway. Even if they defeat the Judge, it isn't enough to prove that they have the power the Judge is looking for - the "Power of Bonds", a power that connects people together. (It's Sora's version of the Power of Waking. Like, you get it, right?) Supposedly, the power can reveal the gateway between the mortal world and the Unseen Realm. The only person who has that power is the Player, but... Well, I mentioned that this game was discontinued, right? So the Player is never able to use their power.

By the way, don't get the Agito Player and khux Player confused. They're totally unrelated. I sense no connection. I'm pretty sure that Sora is supposed to be the Agito Player because, like, he changes destiny. That's why he's so Special And Important to Xehanort and the MoM.

So you see, the entity and the cadets both want Agito. For the entity, Agito's power can help them reach the Unseen Realm. For the cadets, Agito's power can free them from their destiny of war.

The war basically exists to find Agito, so........ I wonder how this info would make Sora feel.

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Judge Myuria: After defeating me, the end of the world will come. As you are now, you are unable to stop the end from coming.
Judge Myuria: You could not find the “solution” which would have made that possible. Because you were unable to become “Agito.”
Jack: We couldn’t become Agito…?! Then are you saying that we’re still lacking something?!
Jack: Well then, how do we become Agito?! How are we supposed to save the world?!
Judge Myuria: The method… You have no choice but to find the answer for yourselves.
Judge Myuria: There are infinite possibilities for you. You may have failed this time, but I could see a glimmer of hope.
Judge Myuria: But if time is turned back, you will lose your memories of this life… And then, I believe we will find ourselves again at this very day, with this very battle.
Judge Myuria: Even so, will you search for the day when all can be saved? Do you wish to continue looking for a solution you haven’t found yet…?
Jack: …!
Jack: …That’s what I wish for. I’ll do it over as many times as it takes.

Jack is Very Angery that he can't become Agito. But he kind of resigns himself to that fact pretty quickly and decides that the world he'll protect is "the world within the distance his blade can reach." In the worlds to follow, he just straight-up says NAH, WE CAN'T DO IT. In Type-0, it's unclear, but in Agito, it seems pretty obvious to me that he's that resigned because he remembers what happened.

Final Fantasy Agito was supposed to "rewrite" the ending of Type-0 where Class Zero all die. But since the true Agito never arrived to save them, you can assume that they were trapped in a continuous spiral of war forever. More specifically, Tabata said that he wanted "the past to save the future." Sooo... Isn't that KH3?

Lean and Tohno put on cloaks and step outside of time in search of the one who could overwrite the world's destiny of destruction. So, now you understand why Luxu encouraged Sora to use the Power of Waking, right? Lean and Luxu had the same mission. I feel like I could write a whole post just about Lean because he's a very entertaining dude. Suffice it to say that he's the perfect combination of young Luxu and older Luxu. He's the "token evil member" of Class Zero. (Depending on how you look at it, they're all evil.)

Since they didn't have the time to reach the proper ending, Player doesn't succeed in becoming Agito, but Lean expresses his belief in them.

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Lean: Player. Did you notice it, too?
Lean: Right now, everybody at Akademeia is in tremendous despair.
Lean: But I can see that there’s still life in your eyes. Even now, you’re the only one who hasn’t lost hope.
Lean: That’s why I wanna place my bets on you! On the light (hope) called “you”!
Ace: …Player’s right.
Ace: Until the very last moment, we cadets can’t lose sight of that light.

Luxu seems weirdly fixated on Sora and Ventus's eyes and I think this is probably why. Their eyes have the "light of hope." When Xehanort referred to Sora as their "hope" I was like THERE IT IS!

Now, back to our boy Jack.

He's interesting because he's one of the few who seem to remember the things that happened in previous worlds. I unfortunately don't have it, but by the third world, he has an event called "Say, if there were other worlds..." in which he almost assuredly talks about what he remembers and what he's probably figured out about the nature of the world.

Jack is determined to keep everything he knows to himself, though. He doesn't want anyone to worry. As a result. he ends up losing his ability to feel emotions.

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Jack: See, if things aren’t looking good and you make a troubled face, you’ll just make the people around you worry, and that’s no good, right?
Jack: I don’t want everyone to get depressed because of me… I can’t keep everyone’s spirits up that way.
Jack: But, after being like this for so many years, it seems I can’t really express my emotions anymore.
Jack: I mean, obviously, I thought it didn’t matter, but…
Jack: For some reason, I get the feeling I might have discarded some really important things.
Jack: I already forgot how to cry a long time ago… But thanks to you, I remembered a little about how to feel angry.
Jack: At the time, I felt confused… But I also felt kind of relieved.
Jack: I guess there is something unnatural about the way I smile around everyone…

This explains a lot of things, but it also makes him sound so sad........ Jack is always easygoing and cheerful, but apparently that's just an act. The reason why he acts so cartoonishy over-the-top must be because he's overcompensating.

I feel like this would explain why the MoM sounds legit morose when Young Xehanort talks about how he feels it's important to understand the emotions within hearts. (Is this why the Book of Prophecies emblem looks like a Nobody emblem...?) The fact that Jack can't understand emotions is one of the reasons why he fails as an Agito candidate and can't save the world. He can't form genuine connections. The only one who can connect with him is Player, and, as I've said..... That'd be Sora.

I don't know the context behind Player making Jack feel anger, but we sure have already seen Sora make Demyx display anger. Everybody's gotta start somewhere. They started on the wrong foot. lol

btw, the character events are known as "Kizuna events." Kizuna means "bond." So, literally, it's an event where the Player forms connections with characters. There's a little timed section where you would rapidly tap a heart to earn kizuna points, and the heart looks like THIS:

Is Kingdom Hearts Agito or is Agito Kingdom Hearts? Who can say, tbh.

Anyhow, I think that having no emotions might also be smart for the MoM. In the case of khux, Darkness can possess people and manipulate them by using their emotions against them. If the MoM doesn't have emotions, Darkness can't use him.

When they were little, Jack brought back Deuce's smile by doing a silly dance. Ever since then, she trusted his optimism. In the novels, she finds out that his smiles are fake and it makes her feel like everything she knows is a lie. Likewise, he believes in her kindness, but she secretly doesn't believe she's really as kind as people think she is because she has to kill people in the war. So, y'see, MoM and Ava both admire something fake about each other. It's disastrous. *chef kiss*

...Have I mentioned the band yet? I HAVEN'T MENTIONED THE BAND. God, I'm sorry. There's just so much going on here. It's hard for me to even tell where to start.

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Jack: Alriiight! Let's go looking for music lovers and invite them to join the band!

I don't have the full scene, but I have enough to know that it sure did exist. lol Jack enlisted Player's help to find people who would form a band with him. It seems like he really wanted to call himself "Angel Jack" as his stage name. Kinda ironic, but cute. I'm not sure what instrument he played in this world, but in the alternate ending world of Type-0, he plays drums. Theoretically, he could've played a different instrument in every world.

I'm also very amused by the fact that Jack is canonically the strongest cadet. Possibly the strongest human character. For real, it says this in his profile, and the Ultimania shows his strength stat going to the edge of the grid. lol

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Jack: …Hm? You wanna know why I use a katana?
Jack: Ahhh, well, wielding a katana is difficult, but it’s said that its power is greater than that of a normal sword if you can master it.
Jack, serious: You slowly get closer, little by little, waiting for your chance…
Jack, smiling excitedly: “Now!” The instant I think that, I put everything I have into one swing and bring down my sword.

Jack, smiling: After all, it’s true what they say about a katana’s power. I have confidence in the way I wield it.
Jack: I may not be good at things like studying, but there’s no one who can beat me when it comes to this.

He mastered the blade -- Jigen-ryuu sword style in specific, a style that focuses on beheading the enemy with one powerful downward strike across the neck from the shoulder. The style teaches that one should ALWAYS keep their blade sheathed to avoid killing at all costs. It's not a style made for long, sustained battles. Jack acts like a coward, but............ Rest assured, if he wanted someone dead, they'd be dead. He just can't do anything in between. It's all or nothing.

He's most useful for taking down large enemies with a lot of HP. He does have one special move called "Transience" (JP, "Transient Crimson Blizzard", evoking the image of a shower of blood.) that can instantly wipe out a whole field of smaller enemies, but it costs him everything but 1 HP. For that move, he plunges a hand into his chest to grab his heart and forges a phantom blade in his other hand out of his SOUL. One of his profiles says that he avoids using that move in front of others because he knows how it would make them worry.

idk, I think this more than explains how the MoM forges keyblades. lol

Battle of a thousand Heartless? u are like little baby, Sora, watch THIS. *kills all the Heartless and frickin' dies*

Since he isn't built for running around, most of his other moves involve watching and predicting the enemy's movements to deliver 1HKO's. When he counters, he excitedly shouts, "I predicted that!" (The word he uses for "predicted" combines the kanji for "seeing" and "cutting." Neat.) The original Japanese names of his counter moves are "Clear Mirror, Still Water" and "All-Seeing." The localized names are incorrect. Don't trust them.

Yozora's fighting style seems really similar to Noctis's, so I'm going to guess that MoM's similar to Jack. So he's a glass cannon. But battles with him would probably be frustrating and short. I would expect to die a lot. Frequently. I hope he stays "on our side", like Demyx told Riku. lol 

He's part of the idiot trio; him, Cinque, and Nine. They're all a different type of idiot. Just by reading what I already posted, I think you can tell that Jack isn't actually stupid, though. He can erase things from his mind. Having an empty mind is actually really important for his technique. Jigen-ryuu incorporates "munen-muso" which means "no desire, no thought." The idea is that the body can move freely and react more quickly when unencumbered by the processes of conscious thinking. On the battlefield, he's an emotionless murder machine!

This is cute, so I feel like sharing it. His fear of Queen is amusingly similar to Demyx's fear of Saix in the KH manga.

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Jack: Alright, if you’re sure, then let’s skedaddle! From now on, we can–
Queen: Wait just a minute there, Jack. This isn’t the time for you to be skipping school.
Jack: Huh? Queen? Wh… Why are you giving me that scary look?
Queen: The reports you’ve submitted were incomplete. Please resubmit the fifteen reports by tomorrow at the latest.
Jack: WHAAAAAAAAT?? FIFTEEN?! But I just promised Player-…
Queen: I understand the situation, but there’s nothing I can do about it. That said… Adhere to the deadline.
Jack, looking miserable: …'Kay. Seems like I can’t put this off.

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Jack: B-but, uh~…
Cinque: We were just going to have cake…
Queen: Oh? Did I just hear you say something about “cake”?
Jack: Ah~ Well~ You seeee…
Cinque: E-Eheheh… Uh, I suddenly don’t really want cake~
Jack: Y-yeah, me too~ I suddenly don’t feel like it, either~
Queen: You both know what you should be doing now, correct?
Cinque: Uh. Yeah.
Jack: The two of us are going to go to the Crystarium right now and rewrite our reports~

Queen also happens to be a berserker... Interesting. She's also the one who seems like Invi, so now I'm just going to be waiting for Invi to go feral.

This reminds me of another very relevant similarity...

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Jack: Right~? Seven’s a different kind of serious compared to Queen~
Cater: Ohh, I see what you mean~ Queen has the air of an honor’s student, but Seven’s like someone who’s good at taking care of things… Like a mom.
Seven: A m-mom…?!
Jack: Oh, she’s petrified. Alright, now’s our chance to run away~!

Jack is a frequent practitioner of the tactical retreat. Most of the time, if he shows up in someone else's event, he causes problems and then exits by running away.

Usually, the problems he causes lead to GOOD things happening. That's why nobody outright hates him. He's not trying to do bad things just to mess with people. In most cases, he's actually trying to do good things. It's just hard because he doesn't have real emotions and he doesn't know what's appropriate. It seems like Seven is among the few who figured out what's going on with his emotions, so even if she's strict with him, she's sympathetic.

Now, as for the rest of the Foretellers.

Consider the following...

Deuce, The Power of Kindness

Deuce is the aforementioned friend of Jack who spends her time tending flowers in the garden. Fellow lover of music. Her weapon is a flute. She's known for being kind and docile, but she can also be firm. Because of how close she is to Jack, she's one of the few people who can break through his act and really make him be serious. Jack mostly keeps a watch on her from a distance, probably because he's afraid of hurting her. He encourages Player to be her friend.

Eight, The Power of Tranquility

Eight is a discerning lad who likes to visit the garden occasionally to check on Deuce. One time, he stepped on her flowers and he was just about ready to commit seppuku to atone for it. Seeing her cry is just too much for him to handle. Nice guy, but can also be a bit of a snarky asshole, especially towards Nine. He's known for being the calm, rational one, but once he thinks he's right, his judgement gets clouded by his own prejudices.

Nine, The Power of Action

Nine is a big questioner of authority. Strong but stupid. Always acts before he thinks. If Jack has a stupid plan, he makes Nine take the fall for him. In a way, I'm totally not surprised by how things turned out for Aced. Even the way the MoM acts a little annoyed with him is so... Jack. Yeah. I feel bad for him. At one point, Nine stands up for himself and actually tells Jack that he won't let him use him, but it totally goes over Jack's head because - reminder - Jack doesn't have emotions. He can't comprehend when he's hurting someone. Aced, Nine, I'm sorry you have to deal with him.

btw, he has a move called "Primal Roar." So when Ava suggested that he "growl at them"......... That actually would work. He yells loudly and it does damage.

Queen, The Power of Wisdom

Oh, Ms. Student Council President... I guess I've come to the conclusion that Queen is the female equivalent of Saix. lol She's one of the few people who can keep Jack under control. She's good at filling the role of an authority figure, but she's bad at controlling her emotions, so if she gets heated, she'll snap at people, and that leads to some very unfortunate situations.

Trey, The Power of Knowledge

This is Trey. He knows a lot. He probably knows more than anyone. But Jack knows things I'm sure Trey doesn't know. And that's scary.

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Trey: I just want you to be safe… No matter what.
Trey: This is a promise between the two of us, okay? Please never forget it.
Trey: It’s enough that Jack makes promises he can’t keep.
Trey: Well, in his case, he may not have intended to keep his promises with me to begin with…

On Jack's behalf, I would like to apologize to everyone. Are you getting the theme here yet? Jack lowkey treats everyone like shit and they're just like "Well, that's Jack. He means well, I think."

But anyway, you can usually find Trey in the Crystarium, aka the library. He loves books. It drives him nuts if there's something he doesn't know. Ira's whole reaction to the Book of Prophecies is textbook Trey behavior. If there's someone who knows something he doesn't know, that's the most frustrating thing in the world to him.

Lean Joker, The Power of Suffering

I don't have conveniently matching images of Luxu and Lean because Lean got horribly shafted in the transition to Type-0 and he barely even appears in that game. He didn't even HAVE a face until Agito... ("Mother!" lmao do you get it? I'm gonna launch Nomura into the sun.)

(edit) I feel like my description wasn't sufficient before, amusing as it was... So here you go. I've rewritten it. This is the most elaborate description you'll find of Lean Joker anywhere.

Originally known as Lean Hampelmann, Lean is the adopted son of Marshal Cid Aulstyne. He's known to be the greatest engineering genius Milites has ever seen. Members of the military seem to think of Cid like their own father, so some members, such as Qun'mi, resent Lean and feel jealous of his close relationship with him. She's willing to do everything for Cid, including sacrificing her own life. Despite her resentment of him, Lean thinks of her as a sister and is terribly distraught when she does go off to sacrifice herself for the sake of fulfilling Cid's will. That's a concept that Lean also seems to be obsessed with - fulfilling Cid's will, to unify all of Orience under the banner of the White Tiger. Essentially, to eliminate war and bring peace. But, like, by force.

He creates the Ultima Bomb, a nuke so powerful, it wipes out the entire massive country of Lorica. In nearly every cycle. Out of all of the millions of cycles. He's also the one responsible for most of the Empire's Magitek Armor units. Even in the cycles where he doesn't take part in the war, his creations still somehow come into existence which seems to suggest that they were part of the world's destiny... And it makes his existence seem futile. Even if he isn't the one doing evil, the evil finds a way to bring itself into existence.

In front of Cid and the rest of the military, Lean acts like a dutiful, respectful son. He's usually very softspoken, anxious, and timid. But when he's out in the field, he discards that side of himself and becomes like a totally different person. He taunts the Rubrum cadets with a cocky attitude and seems to take pleasure in causing them distress. Like the cadets, Lean also aims to become Agito. Of course, the cadets don't understand how a sadistic person like him could ever become the savior of the world. Lean thinks of them as his rivals and displays a certain level of respect for them as a result.

In the Agito gaiden chapter which was meant to serve as an abridgment of the game's third cycle, Lean comes to Akademeia as a goodwill ambassador from Milites. Most of students seem to like him because he's friendly enough, but his timid side lets him get pushed around a little. When Tempus Finis comes, he goes to Milites with Machina, Rem, and Player. Even though there were too many Rursan soldiers for them to fight, Lean refused to leave his Militesi comrades behind... Rem and Machina had to tear him away because he was so distraught, he was unable to even realize that the Militesi soldiers were already dead. This goes to prove that he isn't as cut out for fighting as he pretends to be -- he's actually a weak, emotional person at heart.

After that cycle, Arecia decides to "discard" him, ordering him and Tohno to wander forward to find the true Agito in one of the future cycles. As a result, Class Zero forget who they are and their identities remain a secret forever after. His Power of Suffering seems to represent the pain he feels as he watches the war repeat every cycle. The Nameless Tome declares the Power of Suffering unnecessary because "the divine spirits did not desire to ascend." In the cycle of reincarnation, suffering brings one closer to enlightenment, whereas ignorance distances one from enlightenment. Although he has a lot in common with Jack, this is one area where they're very different. Jack feels nothing, but Lean seems to feel EVERYTHING. He was probably able to understand why Class Zero were incapable of saving the world, seeing their flaws, watching them fight each other, but he and Tohno were powerless to change destiny.

Because Lean is just a scientist, he doesn't do a lot of fighting. But when he does, he pilots a Magitek Armor unit he built himself called "Leraje." (It shares its name with a demon. It's pronounced leh-RAH-jay.) He's shown to have a katana in artwork, but he never seems to actually use it. In Type-0, he only uses projectile magic. As long as you have the "Tiz's Prayer" key item, he'll randomly come to Class Zero's aid as an SP unit. His stats show that his blade is named "Unknown." (Yes, that's literally the name. It's written in katakana as アンノウン.) He's a master of disguise, choosing the appropriate attire to hide his identity wherever he goes. When he appears before Machina in Milites, he wears the masked Militesi uniform. In Rubrum, he wears one of their long, hooded cloaks. When he joins you in battle, he's equipped with an Invisibility Cloak that always makes him totally invisible besides a faint outline. Even if you have Tiz's Prayer, the odds of having him join you are VERY, VERY RARE.

Here's a clip of him in battle. It took me hours to get this. lol When he joins, he says "Jeez, you're hopeless." It's a little hard to see him due to his invisibility status, so look for his outline. He really ran in and completed the mission for me...

Jack, The Power of Ignorance

We already talked about this guy. Total cryptid. Definitely Demyx. lol I think that everyone who's into Type-0 would agree that Jack is a genius. He doesn't have conventional intelligence like Lean. He doesn't have a lot of textbook knowledge like Trey. He doesn't have Queen's mature wisdom. But he's crafty and manipulative af. Serious cult leader vibes. Very lovable, but also...... The scariest character due to sheer deadly potential and unpredictability. Nevertheless, I would trust him.

Despite his laziness, Jack has a heroic side. It's complicated because even that is just an act. He WANTS to be a hero, but he has no choice but to pretend to be one because he can't really BE anything. He's just constantly swapping masks and one happens to be "hero." There's another scene I unfortunately don't have, but apparently he admits to having no strong sense of self. He has to ask Player what they think he's like because he doesn't know. And then he tells them something along the lines of "I guess I'm whatever each person thinks I am." *gestures at the MoM's convo with YMX*

In Agito, he has a persona he refers to as "the gallant, unknown swordsman" who's like a mysterious hero who randomly jumps to the rescue of others. In Opera Omnia, he expresses a similar interest; "Being the cool leader type is good, but being a nameless hero who rescues people from the shadows ain't so bad, either!" The characters from other games encourage him to try, even though the ones who know him doubt whether he could pull it off.

The characters from other games also actually admire his laziness and recognize his brilliance because of how cleverly he bends people to his will to get what he wants while avoiding trouble.

Speaking of Opera Omnia, when Jack was first introduced, the others only saw the large slash marks left in the ground from his sword along with the dead bodies of dozens of giant monsters. They consult Cloud at first, thinking it was a sign that they were going to run into Sephiroth. Cloud can tell that it wasn't the work of Sephiroth because Sephiroth would never create so much carnage without a reason. ...Jack was just bored, so he slaughtered the local monster population.

Here's a small Jack compilation from Type-0 if you wanna hear what he sounds like. Considering the overall serious tone of the game, his silliness is a hilarious tone-breaker.

I feel like I should give King an honorable mention. I'm preeetty sure King was one of Nomura's favorites because when Nomura appears as an SP Unit (Random NPC units that can assist you in battle. Most are named after staff members.) he's represented by King's model. King and the MoM share the same Japanese voice. The MoM and King aren't alike in any other way, though.

Oh, want another fun Jack fact? Deuce is associated with white flowers, but Jack is associated with clover.

Quote

Jack: Ah, Player. Good timing~
Jack: This is a four-leaf clover. I just found it a second ago.
Jack: It’s supposed to be a good luck charm, so I’ll give it to you~
Jack: May it protect you when I can’t~
Jack: The clover will wither and dry up quickly, so when that happens, I’ll give you a new one~

Like Deuce's flowers, white clover means "happiness" and "think of me" in hanakotoba. I guess that makes it an honorary reunion flower. It's drawn a bit abstractly, but I'm preeetty sure the MoM is holding a white clover on the KH2.8 boxart, too. Could be a dandelion, but... Placing my bets on clover, seeing as how there's that whole scene in Back Cover where he picks one.

Sice finds a four-leaf clover and gives it to Player because she heard from Jack that it's good luck. She also picked a flower by the road on her way back from a mission to give to Player after asking Deuce what the flower meant. It's just cute to see them spreading this flower-related superstition around the school. lol

Strangely, besides Ace, Jack is also the only cadet to be mentioned in an Agito chapter title; "The Carefree Cadet's Departure For the Frontlines." The chapter is about how his fake smiles fail to keep everyone calm as the war begins to turn against them in the second world. More MoM behavior.

Quote

Jack: Oh-kay~ Player, it’s a pleasure to work with you~

Player choice:
>Survive no matter what.
>Isn’t your attitude too laidback?

Jack, pouting: So serious! Don’t you think it’s a waste to put in too much effort~? I think the more relaxed you are, the more you can exert your strength.
Seven: You might have a point, Jack, but you’re a little TOO relaxed.
Seven, giving Jack a disapproving look: At the least, we’d appreciate it if you could be a little more serious. If you don’t, you’re going to make us nervous.
Jack: Ahaha, sorry, sorry.

Ugh, I love him.

Okay, this post is huge. I didn't even get to talking about Ven and Lauriam. And Strelitzia... But if I keep going, I'll be here all day. If somebody wants me to explain that connection, let me know.

So what's the conclusion?

Demyx is the young version of the MoM from the first world. Probably. That's the vibe I get from this.

I have no idea what the MoM plans to do in the future. Maybe we'll finally find out how Agito XIII and Versus XIII were supposed to be related. The shot of the MoM standing in the city is very similar to concept art from the cancelled Type-0 sequel, Type-Next. So, whatever's going on, I think that was always meant to be the next stage in a way. iirc, the city in the Type-Next art is Hong Kong, so, like Shibuya in KH, it was based on a real place.

The person in the Type-Next stuff looks like Ace, but he's wearing samurai gear. tbh, it makes more sense for Jaaack to be in samurai gear, but... Whatever. We don't even know if that was really Ace. It might've been a different Ace, like an Ace from the past or future or another world. So on that note, Demyx and the MoM could be the same guy, but from two different times or worlds, existing separately in the same space. But I think it's way simpler to assume that Demyx is just the MoM now. I don't wanna complicate it in my mind more than I have to. lol

Also, obviously, I'm not saying that the MoM IS Jack 100%, just like how Yozora probably isn't 100% like Noctis. But he SURE IS SIMILAR SO FAR.

Needless to say, I recommend reading FF Agito on my blog. I also recommend playing Type-0, but it's not the same game AT ALL. Part of me wonders if Agito and khux ran concurrently because Nomura wanted people to figure this out. But OH WELL. IT'S GONE NOW.

I could probably keep going, but omg... I'm done, I swear. I'm forcing this post to end now.

Edited February 10, 2022 by setsugekka

[StyXboY 103]

I had no idea there was so many elements, I already knew it, but so many? It's pretty crazy especially the tease from the world of Toy Story (the summon)

Spoiler

 

and Quadratum = Square.

Even if I do not think that it will connect directly with the KH licence but the universe of Fabula Nova will find itself like a forgotten world like FFVersus13 and other not used things from the universe of Square Enix (technicall demo). Not only Square Enix by the way! Why not associate Oswald the lucky rabbit or the mad doctor as a forgotten universe like in Epic Mickey.

I really like this idea !

 

 

[bambii 34]

This is... pretty incredible. I've yet to play Type-0 myself, but from the little I've known about it I've had the sense for a while that there are some secrets there relevant to the future of KH - especially since the Ux update in which the MoM describes the never-ending Keyblade War. Lo and behold. Anyway, great work, my mind is blown. I do have a few questions for you if you feel up to it:

 

• How do you see Scala ad Caelum playing into all this? MX calls it the "nexus from which all worlds spring," which could mean many things (especially post-Melody of Memory), and it certainly does seem to stand apart from the normal cycle of time. It also, however, carries on in the lineage of Daybreak Town's class-system of Keyblade Wielding which, as you say, has obvious parallels to Agito/Type-0 etc. The question of the upperclassmen is of particular interest, though 
  Spoiler

  some have been speculating that those fellas end up in Quadratum/"Unreality"/whatever you wanna call it.

   

• To clarify, is your proposition about Xehanort that he is, in effect, the Judge (working consensually with the Darkness/Gala entity), whose self-aware task is essentially to either end the world/start over or find the Agito (Sora) who will end the cycle of war? (Also would explain Master Xehanort's keen interest in Ventus, I suppose...)
• Speaking of the Agito/hope concept, so far we've seen this idea pop up in reference to 2 other things in KH: as being what's inside the box (Luxord), and 
  Spoiler

  as being the goal of Apprentice Xehanort's experiments, particularly sending Kairi out to other worlds (from Xehanort's own mouth in MoM). 

  Do Type-0/Agito provide any clues as to what these might mean?

• Based on everything you've observed, who do you think is the most likely candidate amongst the Foretellers to be the traitor? (And what even is the significance of being the traitor, in KH?)
• Sounds like you're saying Type-Next was meant to head in a similar direction to where the KH series is headed now, but was there ever any indication in Type-0/Agito of 
  Spoiler

  a world *outside*/beyond this endless cycle of war (which would presumably be Quadratum/Unreality)? It sounds like the Unseen Realm would fit this description. Does that sound accurate? (forgive my ignorance of FNC lore)

   

• Finally, what do you think the odds are of the events of Agito/Type-0 actually being *canon* in a broader multiverse sense to Kingdom Hearts? 
  Spoiler

  As of Melody of Memory, KH has finally gone full-blown metafiction, swinging open the doors to other fictional works (especially Square Enix works) possibly being canon (something I also speculated about with the end of FF7R/singularity stuff). For this reason, it may not be too far-fetched to speculate that the endless "Keyblade War" the Master of Masters talks about is, in essence, the very same endless war we see in Agito/Type-0. I mean, you say there have been some 600 million iterations of said war, right?

   

By the way, I'd be very keen to read any of your expanded thoughts on Darkness, Ven, Laurium/Strelitzia, and anything else you think relevant.

EDIT: Also, please link to said blog of yours with Agito translations!

Edited November 30, 2020 by bambii

[setsugekka 162]

On 11/30/2020 at 3:35 PM, bambii said:

How do you see Scala ad Caelum playing into all this?

When speaking of the location itself, I feel like Scala is something new. I'm just not as sure about it as I am with other things. I ran around there a lot, looking around for things that might tip off my Agito radar. There are only two things I feel faaairly sure about.

First, there's the obvious, which is the clock tower underwater. When the world ends in the Agito universe, the island with Akademeia is shown sinking into the ocean. Surprisingly, this is something you can see happening in the very first Agito XIII trailer as well. The artbook illustrates it this way:

"Light fell/rained down from the heavens and the world fell to ruin..."

To me, it sort of looks like what Luxu stayed behind to witness with the Gazing Eye. In the Agito universe, when the world starts over, it literally starts over and everything gets restored to the way it was before, but since it seems like new worlds just replace old ones in Kingdom Hearts, it's like Daybreak Town sunk and stayed sunk and a new world was built on top of it.

All of the magic circles used in the Xehanort fight remind me of things from Type-0, though none of them are exactly the same. For instance, this one looked so much like something from the fight, I got confused and thought it actually WAS a Kingdom Hearts screenshot. lol

But it's not. It's from when Arecia summons Bahamut during the fight against Celestia's dragon form. Point is, though, I feel like there's something going on with the way Scala is built and controlled by magic. Like, it doesn't feel like a real place to me, if that makes sense...? The way it can be manipulated seems strange and reminds me of Alexander.

Alexander starts out underground, but when it's summoned, it flips upright. In the scene where it's summoned, a whole bunch of magic circles appear in the sky. Like, I could be totally wrong here, but since the summoning of Alexander is such an iconic scene for Type-0, it just wouldn't surprise me if Scala ad Caelum is some kind of "living" place that can move and become something completely different in a similar way. Scala ended up getting totally destroyed in the fight against Xehanort, but if it's controlled by magic like Akademeia is, it could probably be restored in some very simple, magic-related way. At the beginning of Type-0, Akademeia is brought to a similar state of ruin, but Arecia is able to fix it right up.

The other thing that really catches my attention is this:

This is from that weird machine at the center of Scala with all the dials. This seems like a reference to Tempus Finis to me. During Tempus Finis, the view of Akademeia from Pandaemonium looks like this:

I've seen people speculate about what the black part underneath the clock tower might be, since it does kiiind of look like it's trying to be something. If it is something, it reminds me of how the Vermilion Bird statue looks during Tempus Finis.

So, if nothing else, I think we can assume that the Daybreak Town setting on the machine is represented by the way it looked at the end of the world. I hope this means we'll get to see Salsa Night in khux. lol

This is also a very important thing at the back of my mind, but I just don't know what to do with it... When you first meet Xehanort in Scala ad Caelum, his image sort of flickers or glitches out. The same thing happens again in Melody of Memory. On a similar note, when he uses the No Name to raise up the labyrinth in the Keyblade Graveyard, there are glowing lines in the ground that seem to activate like circuitry. When you begin the fight with Yozora, the Final World also transitions into Quadratum in a very digital style which assuredly wasn't just a "cool transition." I don't want to say that everything is fake, but......... I think that everything (literally everything) is a game, so reality is relative for everyone. I think Yozora might have been confused about Sora because he also thought that Sora wasn't real. If Sora's name is like "Agito", then hearing someone say "Yeah, I'm Sora" would sound like a ridiculous lie. YOU'RE Agito? Even though the Agito cadets are trying to become Agito, most of them think that Agito is just a legend or something figurative. Heck, many fans come away believing that Agito is something figurative, but Tabata was like "Nah, it's a real person. lol"

In fact... And this is very sad... Unlike Luxu, Lean and Tohno were never given the promise that they'll accomplish their mission. They spend eternity looking for Agito, always aware of the possibility that Agito might not even be real.

Anyway, there's a chance that Brain and the others never actually left Data Daybreak Town. We'll have to see. But if that's the case, it could end up meaning a lot of things about the nature of the world we thought we knew this whole time.

On 11/30/2020 at 3:35 PM, bambii said:

To clarify, is your proposition about Xehanort that he is, in effect, the Judge (working consensually with the Darkness/Gala entity), whose self-aware task is essentially to either end the world/start over or find the Agito (Sora) who will end the cycle of war? (Also would explain Master Xehanort's keen interest in Ventus, I suppose...)

There could be more than one Judge, but where Xehanort is concerned... Miyu may have been possessed by Gala, but she was still consciously working for Arecia's side. Instead of letting Darkness choose someone at random to manipulate, I think the MoM chose to send Xehanort down that path so he would have someone of his own choosing in that position. Xehanort wanted to start the world over for his own reasons, but if he succeeded in "raising" Sora up to a level where Sora could defeat him, then that would be the outcome the MoM was hoping for. Xehanort was basically like a really intense challenge to turn Sora into the world's savior. That's why the MoM asked Xehanort if it was okay to let the future be dictated by false light.

That's actually another reference. Time for another tangent.

Quote

Miyu: Player, do you know about the man named “Lean Hampelmann”?
Miyu: He’s responsible for the development of numerous weapons. It’s said he’s the greatest genius Milites has ever seen.
Miyu: One could call him a devil for building such inhumane weaponry, but…
Miyu: He said something strange back there.
Miyu: He called himself “someone who’s aiming to become Agito.”
Miyu: How could he say something so absurd…! How could the developer of the Ultima Bomb call himself a “savior”?
Miyu: Listen, Player. This is a matter of pride. Let’s defeat the false Agito and become the true Agito!

Each of the main cadets occupy a "seat of power." (I know, interesting word choice...) As I mentioned, the true Agito is "The Power of Bonds." Jack is "The Power of Ignorance" and Lean is "The Power of Suffering." Arecia thought that she could create Agito by combining all the other powers, but that obviously wasn't going to work. I think you could say that anyone who doesn't have Sora's ability to form connections and use the Power of Waking the particular way he does is a "false light" who can't save the world, no matter how much they want to.

I think Xehanort might have more in common with Cid Aulstyne, who was also a Judge. But you get the idea.

On 11/30/2020 at 3:35 PM, bambii said:

Speaking of the Agito/hope concept, so far we've seen this idea pop up in reference to 2 other things in KH

Apart from the true Agito representing hope, I don't think hope was ever mentioned anywhere else in a significant way. I also haven't seen anything that even remotely looks like the box. Xigbar's character file calls everything about the box into question, even its appearance. He implies that it might not be black. It might not even be a box. I'm not sure if he was just trying to make a point about how reality is subjective or if he means that the box can LITERALLY look different. lol

Yeah, I'm still stumped. My best guesses include... A Crystal. The Book of Prophecies. The MoM's heart. And, uhhh yeah that's all I've got. *shrugs*

Oh boy, this just reminded me of something I noticed.

In the scene where the MoM tells Luxu about his past, there's a crimson-colored table with a golden gear on it. I know it might look like "just a gear", but that's part of the emblem of Rubrum. It's a very specific gear, and those are the school colors.

Then I noticed that that table isn't there anymore by the time Ventus and the others reach that room. It looks like it was hiding something underneath it. There's another gear symbol on the ground, like a hatch or an elevator panel.

The MoM was able to make everyone forget about the war somehow. In the Agito universe, the Vermilion Bird Crystal controls a power called "the Oblivion of Death" which erases the memories of the dead from the living. The Crystal is kept in the Peristylium. We never see where it's located exactly, but they say it's "under Akademeia, underground."

I think that might be a hatch to the Peristylium. If the MoM DOES have a Crystal that can control memories, that would totally be something you'd want to lock in a box. The Crystal is sentient, but it's defenseless, so it needs people to protect it. For that purpose, it can turn people into l'Cie and grant them extreme power. However, l'Cie are bound to the Crystal and can't save the world. It's a dangerous double-edged sword. (In this world, l'Cie are highly respected and it's considered an honor to serve the Crystal.)

This is the Peristylium. You can also see it in the first Agito XIII trailer. Ace walks right up to it and activates the machine in front of it by placing his thumb on a sensor. This isn't something the cadets are even allowed to go near in Type-0, so....... Its original purpose is a mystery to me.

Listen, there's something under that table. And I think it's a Crystal. LOL

On 11/30/2020 at 3:35 PM, bambii said:

Sounds like you're saying Type-Next was meant to head in a similar direction to where the KH series is headed now, but was there ever any indication in Type-0/Agito of 

They actually do mention that other worlds exist outside of their world! But we don't get to see any of them. lol Apparently the Moogles were summoned from another world and weren't able to return to their world for some reason. The Nox Suzaku (which, in Japanese, is literally called "The Darkness of the Dominion") is a veeeeeeeeeeeery strange and mysterious creature that came from another world. Fans have been desperate to find out more about it for as long as the game has existed...

I think that Game Central Station might be more important than we realize. And I think that the Dissidia display in Toy Box might've been more than just a reference. My thoughts go in so many directions where that's concerned...

Since the world started over so many times in Agito and was never saved, I could see this being one of its many cycles. (Pretty sure "cycles" and "world lines" are the same thing.) I can't really prove that that's NOT the case. lol

This is getting long and I have to eat at some point, so I'll come back to elaborate on Strelitzia's connection.

Edited February 5, 2021 by setsugekka

[bambii 34]

Once again floored by your encyclopedic knowledge and astute observations. Thanks for the responses. This is pretty much the most empirically convincing speculation on where KH is going that I’ve read to date - this really needs more exposure amongst the fandom. Alas, I don’t know any of the Youtube Men myself. But damo279 and The Secret Reports both seem pretty approachable and would probably eat this up. 

In any case, while I await your elaboration on the other points, a few thoughts/reactions: 

I think the broader question this raises for me is what really is the nature of the cycle and how does it actually manifest in Kingdom Hearts, the series? And could Type-0/Agito help answer this question? We’ve heard MoM *talk* about the cycle of ends and new beginnings, and Master Xehanort has also referred to it (in the singular) - the “precious light that was found” at the end of the Keyblade War from Unchained [x]. However, we never actually see this event taking place. 

What actually *precipitates* the end of one world and the beginning of the next? In KH, we’re vaguely told that it relates to 3 things:

• A Keyblade War
• Darkness “prevailing”
• Kingdom Hearts opening

The order and actual details of these events is left fairly ambiguous. The last one in particular (Kingdom Hearts opening) leaves many questions unanswered; particularly puzzling is Vanitas’ statement in BBS that the X-Blade will “open a door, one that leads to all worlds. Then, Keyblade-bearing warriors will flock here from each and every one of them, to battle for the light within Kingdom Hearts! And just like the legend says, the Keyblade War will begin!” 

Unless Nomura is treating this statement like it never happened, given the new context from Melody of Memory, the implication is that opening Kingdom Hearts is literally a fourth-wall breaking event which is cross-temporal in nature - all realities/cycles converge, or at the very least, become accessible. A singularity, in effect. But which is it that actually causes the start of a new cycle? Darkness prevailing following a Keyblade War, or Kingdom Hearts opening? Seems it must be the former (and Type-0/Agito would probably corroborate this). 

You mentioned Tempus Finis, which looks like some kind of Ragnarok event (fitting with all the Norse terminology in Dark Road, hm?) - the “fall to darkness” event. The machine in Scala certainly does seem to indicate that Daybreak Town befalls this fate; presumably, however, this takes place *after* the Keyblade War itself, after all’s said and done, since there are no red skies to speak of in what we’re shown, nor do we even see the world engulfed in darkness. Just waking up in a Data Daybreak Town (presumably in a new world? Here, your idea of cycles = worldlines would certainly make sense). But the closest thing we actually see to a full-on apocalypse event is… the End of the World in KH1, which … certainly raises some questions which I’m not equipped to answer right now:

However, a Tempus Finis-type event following a Keyblade War marking the end of a cycle puts the function of actually opening Kingdom Hearts into question. KH3 is the only time we ever actually see Kingdom Hearts open, and this is after Sora uses the Power of Waking (the first… 7 times) to re-write the fall to darkness and, as you’re suggesting, finally end the cycle. Maybe that’s more of a parallel to the whole Unseen World thing, or maybe it doesn’t have a parallel in Type-0/Agito at all. I really need to just hunker down and play Type-0.

To go back quickly to your cycles = worldlines idea, I can certainly see your reasoning, but the other contender for worldlines is “other realities.”

Spoiler

E.g., Quadratum, or in Type-0 speak, wherever Nox Suzaku is from, etc.

 However, we then have Luxu in Secret Report 11 to contend with: "The virus has begun a strange undertaking: a reckless plot to allow the Five to escape into another worldline. Surely such a thing can't be possible? We're talking about the same trick that allowed the Dandelions to transfer to other worldlines after the Keyblade War.”

This is especially interesting when we consider

Spoiler

Yen Sid’s revelation in MoM that “the ancient masters … crossed over into another world.” Pretty sure he’s talking about the Foretellers.

So I continue with the Secret Reports quote: “But these children are no Masters. They haven't the means.” …implying that the Masters themselves *may have* crossed over into another worldline themselves. 

So post-Keyblade War in Unchained [x], 1 of the following 3 things must be true:

• Dandelions emerge into a new cycle (worldline = cycle)
• Dandelions escape the cycle into a new reality (worldline = reality)
• New cycles are new realities (worldline = cycle = reality)

As for the Foretellers, who the heck knows. At this point I’m assuming the same would apply for them.

Last question - is there any Omnipotent Author stand-in type figure in Agito/Type-0? I see all the parallels you’re drawing between Jack and the MoM and they are indeed convincing, but MoM is also the author of the Book of Prophecies (i.e. meta-fictional author of the story of Kingdom Hearts, at least in one reality), and plays a unique role in that respect. 

Oops, totally just rambled. Sorry! Hope I made some kind of sense.

Edited December 1, 2020 by bambii

[setsugekka 162]

ok, Strelitzia time.

I will attempt to explain, but here's what you need to know first: Machina=Lauriam, Rem=Elrena, Izana=Strelitzia, Ace=Ventus

Izana is Machina's older brother. He's a foot soldier in the legion and he's one of the caretakers of the military Chocobos at the Chocobo ranch. He has a big brotherly aura, but he's also just a really nice guy. Whenever Player talks to him in Agito, I'm overwhelmed by how sweet he is. He's the type of person you wanna protect. It's too bad they live in a world of war.

Ace likes to visit the Chocobo ranch, so he becomes acquaintances with Izana. In Type-0, he invites Izana to join Class Zero in their next mission, not knowing that their next mission would end up being a fullscale operation to defend Akademeia against an unexpected Militesi invasion. The commander of the legion hadn't approved for Izana to go, but Class Zero have special privileges, so since Ace wanted Izana to go, Izana was sent.

Izana is given the task of delivering enemy intel to Class Zero. He rides his Chocobo through the town and gets gunned down before he can reach them. Ace is too late to help him. Izana dies together with his Chocobo in the saddest intro sequence to a game I've ever seen. Seriously, it's what made me originally put down the game and refuse to play it. I was so shook. He's in so much pain and anguish and his Chocobo is trying to comfort him despite also being gravely injured, and I....... JUST THINKING ABOUT IT MAKES ME WANNA CRY.

Because of how memories are erased in this world, Machina loses his memories of Izana, but he can tell that something's missing. Ace also forgets, but he finds out that he was involved in Izana's deployment and blames himself. Feeling guilty and realizing how badly it would hurt Machina, he hides the truth from him. However, the commandant tells Machina about what happened and uses that opportunity to place the blame on Class Zero. This leads Machina to blame them for Izana's death and turn against them. You know, like how Lauriam lost his mind when he found out "what Ventus did."

Something similar happens in the first cycle of the world, but Ace apologized that time. It's not always the same. Sometimes, Izana survives all the way to the end. In the second cycle, he goes outside with the legion to investigate the mysterious creatures that suddenly appeared at the end of the world. He promises to return, but he never does...

Marluxia also loses his memories of Strelitzia and he feels like something's missing. It's all very familiar.

Quote

Machina: …Oh, it’s you, Player. Sorry. I know I shouldn’t be spacing out at a time like this…
Machina: With this recent battle… For some reason, it feels like a large blank spot opened up in my heart…
Machina: I wonder if I lost someone who was really important to me… If I can’t remember who it was, then I can’t even be sure that someone actually died.
Machina: Do I have to fight with this kind of empty feeling inside of me…? Do we really still have to fight…?!

It seems like no matter what cycle, though, Machina always ends up becoming obsessed with finding out what happened to Izana. *cries* In the first cycle, he goes all over Akademeia, asking everyone if they can remember anything about him.

Quote

Machina: I see… You could have lost someone important, too.
Machina: But then, if that’s the case… We can’t lose anyone else.
Machina: We may have lost people who were precious to us. But that’s why we have to protect the people who are still alive.
Machina: Rem, Ace, you… I can’t afford to lose any more memories.
Machina: …Thank you, Player. I have a little more courage now.
Machina: I’ll fight to the end, as well. To protect everyone…!

MACHINA... LAURIAM... Elrena and Ventus are the ones you have to protect now!! ??

I guess it's possible that Strelitzia could've still been alive in some other world line, but at the point that Sora saved the world, I get the feeling that other world lines might not exist anymore...

Machina's power is "The Power of Fear." He becomes deathly terrified of losing the people he's close to, particularly Rem, his childhood friend. I could see Lauriam developing the same sort of protectiveness of Elrena. I-in the third world, she dies as he's holding her and he immediately loses his memories and can't even recognize the person he's holding...... But he can sense that she was important to him and promises to "return" to her... *sits in the corner of sadness*

Rem's power is "The Power of Love." *UGLY CRYING* ELRENA HAS STOOD BY HIM THIS WHOLE TIME. I'M IN A GLASS CASE OF EMOTION!!!!!

Opera Omnia gave Machina his own arc where he was finally able to reconcile with Ace after Type-0. Lauriam and Ventus will make up and I'll get emotional all over again.

Additionally, this just kind of amuses me, but I think Lauriam's young hairstyle was based on Machina's. lol

Edited December 1, 2020 by setsugekka

[bambii 34]

I wrote more above while you were replying lol but gonna read your follow-up post shortly!

[setsugekka 162]

1 hour ago, bambii said:

What actually *precipitates* the end of one world and the beginning of the next?

Even Agito is kind of ambiguous about what causes the end of the world, tbh. lol I would say that it's the Judge (traitor), but I'm not sure what they actually DO to make it end. That might be what Kingdom Hearts is for. It sounded like that was what Xehanort was going to use it for, right? There are probably a lot of older bits of info in the series that don't quite fit anymore... I'm not sure what Kingdom Hearts was originally intended to be. I think it might be something different now.

If I'm not mistaken, the "light" that rains down to destroy the world comes from Etro's Gate. It's a giant eye in the sky.

Etro's Gate and Kingdom Hearts always sounded like the same thing to me. Maybe Nomura realized that and started nudging it in that direction... I'm learning to accept that not everything has to fit perfectly. Even if it seems like Etro's Gate and has some things in common with it, Kingdom Hearts probably works differently and has a different purpose. Your guess is as good as mine.

1 hour ago, bambii said:

The machine in Scala certainly does seem to indicate that Daybreak Down befalls this fate; presumably, however, this takes place *after* the Keyblade War itself, after all’s said and done, since there are no red skies to speak of in what we’re shown, nor do we even see the world engulfed in darkness.

Tempus Finis always comes after the war. The end of the war is what triggers it. Gala awakens along with the Rursus Crystal and he chooses a Judge. In spirit, I'd say that Salsa Night has already begun, but there could still be time until the sky turns red, if it's going to. I really hope it does, but I wonder if it would make things too obvious... Anyone who's played Type-0 would have to notice at that point. Maybe it's too much.

1 hour ago, bambii said:

Last question - is there any Omnipotent Author stand-in type figure in Agito/Type-0?

Yes. Kind of. If anyone, I think that would be Arecia. I assume that the MoM is partially picking up her role. She's also known as "Mother." (...MoM. Mother. Heehee.) She's the creator of the world. She has some control over how the world works, but she can't do things like end it herself. However, when the world ends, she has the authority to say whether it's finally over forever. (She refers to the Spiral - the cycle as a whole - as an "experiment.") By my estimation, there's nobody else in Kingdom Hearts who's like her. The MoM certainly doesn't act like her. I'd describe her as... Calm, mature, suave, and terse.

She's always working behind the scenes in Type-0, but I think you could be forgiven for forgetting that she exists in Agito. She doesn't really need to be there, tbh. So if she and Jack were turned into one character for Kingdom Hearts purposes, that makes sense to me.

Arecia is just a god in service of other gods, btw. If you zoom out, the world of Orience just looks like a sphere being held by a pair of gods called Diva. As you can tell by the name, Diva "sings" the story of Type-0. The wiki refers to HER as the creator, but Agito explicitly refers to Arecia as the creator, so I don't know what to believe. I guess it depends on which game you ask.

There's a book in Type-0 which is VERY similar to the Book of Prophecies called "the Nameless Tome", but its author is unknown. All we know is that Tabata said that Arecia isn't the one who wrote it and she didn't instruct anyone to write it. Vewwy mystewious.

Most of what I know about Arecia and the Nameless Tome comes from Type-0, though, so all of that might be unreliable if we're only supposed to be thinking about ideas that existed with Agito XIII.

Anyway, from the Nameless Tome:

Quote

Diva, the Divine Spirit

Two lights cast their all-seeing eyes upon the spiral,
Instructed of the great Will only to watch, never to interfere.
The lights raise their voices in harmony, Diva of the heavens,
Singing of the world's end, a long-forgotten fate.

So, in a sense... *glances suspiciously at Melody of Memory* The whole history of the world is an endlessly repeating song.

Edited December 1, 2020 by setsugekka

[setsugekka 162]

Added a link to my blog in the first post, but sharing it here, too. Here's the whole index.

I'm still adding new things all the time. There are still many Kizuna events I'm missing... My Jack collection isn't complete yet...

These are the Jack events I know I'm missing because I saw a partial list of titles, but there's even MORE out there. Just by looking at these titles, I think you can see why some of these are of big interest to me...

もしも別の世界があったら - Say, If There Were Other Worlds...
魔導院バンド結成？ - The Formation of the Akademeia Band?
貸った本を探そう - Let's Look For the Book I Was Lent
かすかな素顔 - A Faint Glimpse of His True Face
微笑みの奥で - Behind the Smile
彼の守りたい世界 - The World He Wants to Protect

*cries* That's SO MANY. I think that most of these came from the third cycle when the game was close to being shut down and there were fewer people playing...

[Dustin Lübbers 933]

Man did I wish I had such an observation skill level as you

[setsugekka 162]

I somehow went this whole time without mentioning one of the most obvious visual similarities.

Quote

"This is not one chapter of a story.
It is a history written by one’s own hand. It is destiny."

As far as I'm aware, this is one of the oldest pieces of keyart for Agito XIII. Jack is the cool one on the right with the sword. I remember thinking that these guys looked like "Organization XIII rip-offs" because they each use different weapons and wear these hooded coats. Now I am the fool.

Oh yeah, when speaking of the world's "authorship", there is yet another way you could interpret it. The idea from the original tagline persists in Type-0. Near the end of the game, Arecia tells them that the last page of the Akashic Records hasn't been written and it's for them to decide. They discuss the page here. They each have their own idea for how they should face the end of the world. Of course, Jack says that it's ridiculous to think that they could stop the end of the world and suggests running away. Very intriguing.

The last page of the Akashic Records being written by Class Zero and the last page of the Book of Prophecies having "already been written" (and needing to be overwritten) makes me go "HMM?" It's like the end of Type-0 was what ended up being written there and now it had to be rewritten... Am I supposed to interpret it that way? I don't know, but I made myself sad.

On that note... Just when you get done watching the very sad ending and you're thinking to yourself "Well, maybe it's okay. Maybe they all became Agito in spirit and now the world will be safe."

Nah.

And now I literally just remembered that this is what made me think that there could be a Crystal in the box. Totally forgot they mentioned "hope" here. lol The Crystals are also referred to as the light of hope. Without them, the world falls to darkness. So that's........ Something.

Edited December 1, 2020 by setsugekka

[setsugekka 162]

DON'T MIND ME, JUST ADDING SOMETHING AGAIN...

A pal on tumblr translated a bit of the French version of one of the Type-0 novels because there were some things they thought I'd enjoy. The conversations between Jack and Deuce are amazing. Their interactions are just like what I'd expect from MoM and Ava. BEHOLD THE CHARACTERIZATION.

Quote

❝How sad to be condemned to war to survive! If it happens, the inhabitants of Milites would have nothing to feel bad for!❞
❝Probably...❞ Jack replied in an unconvinced tone.
❝I'm sure! Only the amnesia of death allows us to endure this situation. Without it, we would be too scared to fight! Imagine, if we remembered all those who perished in conflicts... Fear and sadness... Oh, it hurts just thinking about it!❞
❝I don't think so.❞ He replied, a cruel smile on his lips. ❝Humans are barbaric beings. They will always kill each other, amnesia or not.❞
❝You're wrong. Man is good by nature.❞
❝That's what you think. But you know, not everyone is the same as you.❞
She was silent. Jack had just thrown her into deep sadness. He who always raised her spirits, since that first day, eight years earlier...

I am once again thinking about the scene from khux where the MoM tells Ava about his plan to make the wielders forget about the war... Still not sure what the point of that was, exactly. But there's gotta be a correlation here somewhere.

Then there's the flashback from when Deuce joined the orphanage and he made her smile by dancing to her flute. Very wholesome.

Then, after that:

Quote

But the years had passed, and it seemed to Deuce that her friend had changed. He seemed as cheerful and kind as in the past, but sometimes made cruel remarks. In those moments, Deuce imagined that Jack's warm smile concealed a glacial abyss.
We all have a different view of life, death, and war, I guess...
Was the current conflict responsible for the change she was seeing in her friend? Every time she thought about it, this idea saddened her. She hated war a little more every day.
No, I don't have to say that. I'm in Class Zero, I have to be stronger...
She raised her head and to meet the gaze of Jack, who watched her with a strange expression.

That line about his smile concealing a cold abyss... Such MoM energy. I'm shooketh. I asked what the word was for "strange", and it seems like it really was just "strange" in French. So I imagine the original was focusing on some unusual/mysterious quality in the way he was looking at her. Jack... Why are you so mysterious...? What was he thinking about while watching her??

It's so easy to draw a comparison to khux here...

I get the impression that Jack was thinking about what the war might do to Deuce and her kindness. (Deuce's power is the Power of Kindness.) In Agito, Jack states that he believes that in the midst of war, the world needs kindness more than anything. I don't think the MoM was ever trying to hurt Ava - probably the opposite. He seems especially kind towards her, almost sad, showing what seems like more real emotion than he does with anyone else. He wanted her to avoid engaging in any battles... What Jack meant is that there's no one like Deuce. There's no one as kind as her. So of course... Ava was the only one for that role.

Demyx, play The Forlorn Heart.

Anyhow. Then, a bit later, from right before Jack sacrificed himself to protect her from Ines' mech...

Quote

❝Your generosity makes you understand your opponents, am I wrong? But it's useless. I'm not saying that just because they are our enemies: no one can know how the other feels.❞
❝Don't talk like that, it's too sad...❞
❝But it's true. I'm stupid, and a ton of things slip away from me, but I'm sure of that. Besides, Ines is not trying to understand us, she is too busy fighting us.❞
Deuce sighed.
❝So goes life.❞ Jack continued. ❝And the war will continue, for centuries to come. We will not change the world, but we can at least try to protect those who are dear to us. You know how much I love this class...❞
These words, spoken with gentleness, contained a strength that gave courage to the girl. Despite the shield losing shine, Jack smiles:
❝Play us something, will you? I'll dance, as I used to, for our friends.❞
He hasn't changed. He simply understood the cruelty of the world long before me, and he accepted it.

Tears running down my face...

My pal said that they thought I'd enjoy this part because you can interpret it as an example of Jack seeing "reality." Which seems true, even if it's just in a figurative, emotional sense and not in the hyper-literal KH way. All the time, you can tell that Jack sees things in a clear, simple way. Here, he understands the futility of trying to reason with someone who has no intention of listening. But, on an even deeper level, he knows that two people can never truly see anything from the same perspective. You'd have to, like, literally BE the other person for that to be possible. So it's another case of how each person has their own concept of "reality."

To them, Ines is the enemy, but Ines surely sees herself as the hero of her own story, protecting Milites from the "red demons." We're treated to the story of Type-0 from the perspective of Class Zero. The moment you start looking at it from the perspective of the other nations, you realize that Class Zero might not... be very good people... So what is the truth? What is reality? WHAT IS THE CHEESE, KANEKI-KUN??

Deuce has a kizuna event where she thinks about what the war must be like for the people of Milites. As soon as she starts humanizing them in her mind, it gets harder for her to see them as being any different from them. She may not have put two and two together, but her own concept of reality had changed. It made it harder for her to see herself as a hero. How could anyone become Agito when they doubt whether they're doing the right thing? So, of course, I'm sure that Ava was experiencing the same sort of internal turmoil as the keyblade war commenced. "Am I the enemy now...?"

Ava tried so hard to get everyone to stop. She tried to understand everyone. But it was never going to work... But is it right to be like Jack and say that it was pointless? If you can't see eye to eye, is it meaningless to even attempt to understand how someone feels? Maybe it is. But maybe there's something to be said for trying to understand people anyway. Even if they failed, I think that's the importance of Deuce and Ava. Because if there weren't people who tried to be kind, then the world would be an even crueler place. Be kind, even if the world isn't kind to you in return. That sort of moral.

I fear that the Foretellers will once again find themselves back in the disaster zone if they trust Demyx. He's been empowered by Vexen, so now he seems to believe he can be a good guy like Riku and the others, but with how insensitive and emotionally dense he is....... No matter how good his intentions are, something bad is bound to happen again. Demyx clearly didn't understand Riku's feelings when he took the replica. Riku stressed that it contained important feelings. Riku, he doesn't know what those are. LOL ("Didn't Riku say 'memories'?" No. The localization strikes again.)

Where was I going with this? idk. I hope you enjoyed this impromptu MoM & Ava meta.

[setsugekka 162]

On 11/26/2020 at 3:27 PM, setsugekka said:

I've got a lot of thoughts about Darkness here, but I'm gonna keep them to myself and continue with the story.

Well, after the recent khux update (beware spoilers), it would appear that I should finally share these thoughts because it would appear that they might be correct.

Ages ago, the MoM mentioned that the war never ends, but it's possible to form a "truce" with the darkness. Nothing escapes me. lol From then on, I kind of had the impression that the MoM may have been cooperating with Darkness in order to stab him in the back. Combined with the fact that eyes are a symbol of the Judge, this gave me the impression that the Gazing Eye was a gift from Darkness that would help the MoM find "Agito."

If the Gazing Eye made him connected to Darkness, then... that was probably a bad thing. Darkness is his enemy. So in order to remove that connection.......... I think he just frickin' disappeared to escape from Darkness's control and started himself over again as Demyx. This is an assumption I've had for a while and it hasn't done me dirty yet.

The Gazing Eye is such a stupidly overpowered ability, I don't think it exists anymore. I don't think Demyx has the Gazing Eye. It wouldn't even be necessary anymore. So it's gone. lol It's hard to write a story where someone has that type of power without it causing huge plot contrivances, so it's honestly for the best if he doesn't have that power anymore.

I mentioned how Ace is "The One Closest to Agito" and how that makes Ventus special, right? khux was like "Yeah." lmao

Apparently the MoM used a lot of ~ these ~ in this update. What do you call them? Tildes? I hadn't mentioned it, but you probably noticed it in all of the Jack quotes I shared. The way you can tell when Jack is joking/not being super serious is when he's using those. When he doesn't use them, that's how you know he's trying to be serious.

Quote

Jack: How's it goin'~? I'm Jack from Class Twelfth. Nice to meetcha, Player~

Meow.

There was this one part that seems to have confused people. I don't know how the youtube subbing circles are going to handle this, but I'll explain it for you...

Quote

Brain: Do you have something to do with the Master?
Darkness: We're old yuujin.
Ephemer: Yuujin? The Master and Darkness are nakama?
Darkness: I have no need to be nakama with humans.

Both of the words here mean "friend." It's just that the word Ephemer uses comes with a different connotation. A "yuujin" is just a friend. "Nakama" could be a lot more than just a friend. It could be a companion, a compatriot, a partner, a teammate, someone you really trust, someone who's got your back, etc. (If you're into One Piece, you probably get it. lol)

Darkness isn't the MoM's "nakama."

In Demyx's character file story, he said he thinks he joined the Organization because he wanted "nakama." Is this related? Not sure. Could be. He did say that Xigbar was the person he hung out with the most. Does that make Xigbar his nakama?

I just have a feeling that Darkness making a big deal out of that word means that that word is a big deal.

Anyway, I've seen people interpreting that line to mean that the MoM isn't human, but I don't think that's what it's saying. It sounds to me like Darkness was objecting to Ephemer's word choice because he wouldn't be nakama with humans... Meaning that the MoM is human. (There's no distinction of plural or singular here, so he might mean "A HUMAN.") I mean, we know that the MoM was a "young boy" in his past, so... He ages. That sounds pretty human to me. ...Not like this really makes a difference to me. Demyx could be an SCP if he wanted and I'd believe it.

The MoM's baka energy was off the charts in this update. As Jack would say "It'll all work out somehow~"

Edited December 17, 2020 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

Isn't it confirmed that Demyx is not the Master? In his character file, he says this:

Quote

But yeah, it’s just like he was always saying—y’know, the “may your heart be your guiding key” guy?

The "may your heart be your guiding key" guy is most likely the Master of Masters, right? After all, he's the one who first started saying that.

In the secret ending in KHIII, you can see the Master of Master's jawline, and also in the cover art for Kingdom Hearts χ[chi] Back Cover, pretty much proving he's human. It seemed plausible that the Master could be the physical embodiment of light, but after that line in today's KHUX update, I'm not so sure. 

[setsugekka 162]

17 hours ago, Double OKP said:

Isn't it confirmed that Demyx is not the Master? In his character file, he says this:

The "may your heart be your guiding key" guy is most likely the Master of Masters, right? After all, he's the one who first started saying that.

In the secret ending in KHIII, you can see the Master of Master's jawline, and also in the cover art for Kingdom Hearts χ[chi] Back Cover, pretty much proving he's human. It seemed plausible that the Master could be the physical embodiment of light, but after that line in today's KHUX update, I'm not so sure. 

I'm one of the few who translated that, actually. So I can tell you that it was written very, very vaguely, in a way that sounds like a red herring to me. If there were ever a red herring... It's this. Full offense, but every video I've seen about this was suffering from serious brain rot.

He refers to the other Organization members by name. He refers to Xigbar as "the old man", which is what he calls him in the Japanese version of Days. So it's like they wanted to be a little sneaky about who he was referring to there, but if you've played Days, you'd know that they hung out. Why would they decide to make THAT ambiguous, right? We know that it's Xigbar. Why try to obscure the fact that they have a connection? I haven't heard anyone else talk about this point when it seems like one of the biggest, most obvious indicators that Demyx is the MoM. (It's because nobody else wants to say it or even see it. lmao) Demyx groups the other "friends" together like this; Axel & Saix, Zexion & Vexen, Xaldin & Lexaeus, and Marluxia & Larxene. We know that all of these pairs are connected in meaningful ways, so it's like his story is begging us to wonder what connection Demyx has with Xigbar. It feels like he brushes it off like "I guess I hung around with him the most" like there's something there, but he isn't aware of its importance. It's like, whoa, buddy! That's Master Luxu you're talking about right there! What do you mean "I GUESS"???? Don't you realize who that IS????

In contrast, the way he refers to the MoM is like how you'd talk about someone you're aware of but haven't met or aren't personally acquainted with. Again, this seems like a mundane thing to him, like he has no idea how important the MoM is. It's a good thing he never talked about it in front of Xehanort, right? The thought apparently never occurred to him. I think he's totally the one Xehanort was looking for. (God, the "keyblade legacy" thing is another mistranslation... Lord, help me... I explain that one over here.)

Demyx doesn't know his name. It seems like he might not even remember the full phrase because he leaves out the word "key." (Everybody else ignored that part in their translations for some reason... The phrase is "kagi ga michibiku kokoro no mama ni" but he leaves out the "kagi ga" part. Uh... idk, this seems important to me.) So when he tries to remember what's "guiding him", I took that to mean that he was trying to remember the word "key." (Not "heart", mind you.) It's kind of ominous. It feels like he's on the edge of remembering something very important at the end.

Assuming I'm reading it the way they intended, then it gives me the impression that he'll remember who he is if he can remember that word and say the whole phrase. It's like he's not even allowed to say the whole thing yet. Gotta save it for that special moment. For now, they're just teasing you with it.

So here's what I think we're actually supposed to take away from his character file: He has a connection to Xigbar. The only thing we know that he remembers is an incomplete version of the MoM's phrase. He knows that somebody said it, but his memory seems to go on the fritz when he tries to remember what it means.

It's himself. He's... He's just remembering himself. He probably also knows who Luxu is, but he doesn't realize that he's Xigbar because he doesn't look the same - but he ended up becoming Xigbar's nakama anyway because he (as the MoM) either arranged for it to be that way or it's just beautiful destiny.

edit: Okay, I said that he became Xigbar's nakama, but... Did he? I don't think he's as close to Xigbar as he wants to be. In all their interactions, you can see how hard he's trying. Too hard. Xigbar was always amused by him, but I don't think he ever took him seriously enough or looked at him the way Demyx wanted him to. The whole reason Jack couldn't save the world is because he lacked the Power of Bonds, so......... In a narrative sense, Demyx has a connection to Xigbar that surely doesn't end here, but their hearts were never connected, were they........ ...........idk, is nobody thinking about how FRIENDS have major significance in the series, too? Friends are literally Sora's power. Demyx wants friends. These dots aren't that far apart. lol

edit edit: I keep thinking of things to add to this i'm so sorry. kjhgg BUT. *cries* Why is this so reliant on understanding what he means in Japanese........ "kokoro no mama ni" means to do as your heart desires. So, it sounds like he took it to mean "do what you want" or "do what feels right." Then he remembered the "michibiku" part and went "Wait, what? Oh yeah, something's supposed to be something guiding in that phrase. ...What was the rest?" I feel like there's no ideal way to translate this... What a mess. lmao There's even a really long space where the "kagi ga" part should be... The fact that he totally misunderstood it from the beginning seems to mean that he... may not have even KNOWN the phrase until it suddenly came back to him right at that moment.

Nonetheless here's my re-attempt: Right, right. It's just like that guy would say. That "..........guide you as your heart desires" guy? Now that I think about it, what was supposed to be 'guiding', again...? ?

You can do it, Demyx! You can put it together! D... Do you even know that there's a "guy"...? Are you okay? LOL

Also, the whole middle paragraph about how he'd rather just have fun is 100% Jack content. Which, again... Jack... MoM.............. Demyx.

My guess is that he has the MoM's memories to some degree (like how Jack could remember his own past lives to some degree) but he doesn't recognize himself for the same reason he doesn't recognize Luxu.

I don't think you need to think about it that hard, though. Just look at them. It's like how everybody knew that Ventus killed Strelitzia and Brain is Eraqus's ancestor. It's right there. Don't let Demyx's character file story fool you with its highly intentional ambiguity. lol

edit: Thought of something else to add to this. The title of his story is "Tweet of a Substitute." That seems to be some kind of mistranslation. (The title is actually in English to begin with.) In Japanese, the word for "tweet" (like to send a tweet on Twitter) is tsubuyaki. That word also means "muttering" or talking to one's self. I'm not sure if they used google translate or what... But the title is almost certainly meant to be Hoketsu no Tsubuyaki, "The Substitute's Mutterings."

On that note, the Type-0 Ultimania has a section on Jack's page called Jack no Tsubuyaki which includes all of the voice lines he says to himself when you examine things around Akademeia. I don't know if this is just a coincidence, but it's weird.

Edited December 18, 2020 by setsugekka

[Double OKP 171]

13 hours ago, setsugekka said:

(God, the "keyblade legacy" thing is another mistranslation... Lord, help me... I explain that one over here.)

I NEVER KNEW THAT!!! It makes so much more sense now 'cause the 'ancient Keyblade legacy' thing made absolutely no sense. I wonder why they were looking for ancient Keyblade wielders. Maybe because Xehanort wanted to find and meet his 'friends' from his dreams???

 

13 hours ago, setsugekka said:

It seems like he might not even remember the full phrase because he leaves out the word "key." (Everybody else ignored that part in their translations for some reason... The phrase is "kagi ga michibiku kokoro no mama ni" but he leaves out the "kagi ga" part. Uh... idk, this seems important to me.) So when he tries to remember what's "guiding him", I took that to mean that he was trying to remember the word "key." (Not "heart", mind you.) It's kind of ominous. It feels like he's on the edge of remembering something very important at the end.

Assuming I'm reading it the way they intended, then it gives me the impression that he'll remember who he is if he can remember that word and say the whole phrase. It's like he's not even allowed to say the whole thing yet. Gotta save it for that special moment. For now, they're just teasing you with it.

Hmm... interesting. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he is a reincarnation of the MoM, their personalities are really similar. It actually wouldn't be strange for Kingdom Hearts, after all, we've seen a bunch of incarnations of someone... Terranort/Apprentice Xehanort, Young Xehanort, Ansem SOD, Xemnas... so MANY Xehanorts that it drives me nuts lol. But if he is, I wonder if Xigbar/Luxu is aware of that. Doesn't seem like it though

"The Substitute's Muttering"... interesting. But what is Demyx a substitute for??!! 

There's a lot of mystery surrounding Demyx at this point. I think...I'm just going to wait 'till everything is unveiled. 

I seriously wish I could read Japanese to see all the mistranslations lol?

[setsugekka 162]

7 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Maybe because Xehanort wanted to find and meet his 'friends' from his dreams???

I'm always thinking about that whole situation... I think that Demyx might've been experiencing the same sort of thing. I still can't believe that Xehanort could be reincarnated Player, but I don't know what else to think. Why else would he be having dreams about Player's life? So... If that IS the case, Demyx dreaming about the MoM and thinking he's someone else seems very reasonable to me. Xehanort could've been looking for his friends, but I think he was looking for the MoM, especially after that one scene where he wistfully talked about how he never saw him again, kinda like he was hoping that he would.

21 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

"The Substitute's Muttering"... interesting. But what is Demyx a substitute for??!! 

Hoketsu means "substitute", but it's also what you'd call a sports player who's sitting on the bench, so that's how they came up with "benched member" for the localization. Either word works, though I do wonder if it has an additional meaning for him.

26 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

There's a lot of mystery surrounding Demyx at this point. I think...I'm just going to wait 'till everything is unveiled. 

Right?? I figure that it's him, and that's all I really need to know. "He's a reincarnation" seems like a strong guess right now, but there are still a lot of questions. Like... How did he even get to the Organization? I can't answer that, so I'll just think about the things that seem possible to answer with the other clues I've found. lol

21 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

I seriously wish I could read Japanese to see all the mistranslations lol?

I wish I knew less. lol Sometimes things aren't necessarily mistranslated. It's just that so much of KH is written in an intentionally vague way, it's extra easy to write something in English that ends up having the wrong connotation. If it weren't an ongoing series, we might not have this problem because then we'd have the benefit of knowing what was meant instead of trying to guess.

[Double OKP 171]

2 hours ago, setsugekka said:

I'm always thinking about that whole situation... I think that Demyx might've been experiencing the same sort of thing. I still can't believe that Xehanort could be reincarnated Player, but I don't know what else to think. Why else would he be having dreams about Player's life? So... If that IS the case, Demyx dreaming about the MoM and thinking he's someone else seems very reasonable to me. Xehanort could've been looking for his friends, but I think he was looking for the MoM, especially after that one scene where he wistfully talked about how he never saw him again, kinda like he was hoping that he would.

I feel Xehanort having dreams of [Player]'s life and that being his whole motivation to go see outside worlds is so random. Maybe there'll be answers at the end of Union χ[Cross]. But yeah, if that is really the case, then I'll be 100% positive that Demyx is the reincarination of the MoM, it would make total sense then. 

I think Xehanort was looking for the MoM and his 'friends'. Now that you mention that he said he never saw him again, it seems likely he was searching for him. I'm pretty positive he was searching for the Union Leaders too because he says this in the beginning dialogue of Episode 1: Unexpected Departure in Dark Road:

Quote

If I could get to the outside world, would I be able to meet my friends from my dreams?

This sounds like he wants to meet them.

And I heard that Nomura said Master Xehanort and Ventus's first encounter is very 'interesting'.

[setsugekka 162]

1 minute ago, Double OKP said:

I'm pretty positive he was searching for the Union Leaders too because he says this in the beginning dialogue of Episode 1: Unexpected Departure in Dark Road:

I forgot he said it like that... That sounds like you're right and that makes this idea feel even realer.

11 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

And I heard that Nomura said Master Xehanort and Ventus's first encounter is very 'interesting'.

Ahhhhhh... I remember Nomura saying something like that. I'll have to figure out where the quote was. If this is the case, then Xehanort must've felt something or remembered something upon seeing Ventus. How spooky.

I'm just like... If Demyx is a reincarnation, does that mean that the MoM DIED? If he made some kind of deal or "truce" with Darkness, then my assumption is that he was like a Judge. He could've been the first Judge of the first world - which would totally explain why the MoM knows how all of this works. And since Re:Mind showed us that people can turn into crystal in KH, then... Maybe the Gazing Eye really was like a Secundus l'Cie power. And by accomplishing his "role" (his Focus), he crystalized and was reborn. In the Agito universe, when someone crystalizes, it's called "sublimation" (shouka). Another word for it would be "elevation."

Ages ago, I saw someone point out that the back of the Verum Rex box in Toy Box mentions karma.

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“After a long fight/light, weapons have brought great benefits for the humanity. But the “KARMA” that sleeps in humans will accelerate further. In the light of the warhead in the night sky, they chose to fight while feeling the pain of their hearts”

The English doesn't sound perfect... But, seeing as how karma is related to reincarnation, this makes me think.

Quote

Karma; (in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.

I mean.......... Is this what we're doing now? Is this what's up?? lol

[Double OKP 171]

12 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

I'm just like... If Demyx is a reincarnation, does that mean that the MoM DIED?

In the secret ending in KHIII, he is seen on one of the buildings in Quadratum, so that would mean he is still alive. But that makes everything even more confusing

[setsugekka 162]

13 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

In the secret ending in KHIII, he is seen on one of the buildings in Quadratum, so that would mean he is still alive. But that makes everything even more confusing

I think that's just supposed to be Demyx as the MoM, so yeah... lol I don't think Demyx would let Xigbar run off without him.

...But also, we don't know if he's currently there. The secret endings are like previews and things don't always happen the way they're shown. There was a two-year gap between the end of KH3 and the part of Re:Mind where they were still looking for Sora. Demyx could've been doing a lot of catching up. He's been eating cake with the Foretellers or whatever.

[Double OKP 171]

7 minutes ago, setsugekka said:

...But also, we don't know if he's currently there. The secret endings are like previews and things don't always happen the way they're shown. There was a two-year gap between the end of KH3 and the part of Re:Mind where they were still looking for Sora. Demyx could've been doing a lot of catching up. He's been eating cake with the Foretellers or whatever.

Hmm... that could be a possibility. And I wonder where in the world Demyx vanished off to anyway. He was helping the Radiant Garden team with retrieving a Replica for Roxas; he even got his own Gummiphone. Wonder where he went...

[setsugekka 162]

Just now, Double OKP said:

he even got his own Gummiphone. Wonder where he went...

You know he totally got that Gummiphone so Riku can receive a mysterious call in Quadratum.

And then he answers it.

And it's Demyx. LOL

"HEEEEEEEY, RIKU! Remember me~? Uwaaah, I can see you all the way from here! See, I'm waving! Can you see me?? LOOK UP!!"
"...Demyx??? Why the heck are YOU here?"

[Double OKP 171]

LOL That would be hilarious!? It makes me wonder why Demyx received a Gummiphone in the first place. Nomura-san certainly wouldn't have given him one if he wouldn't use it in the future 

[setsugekka 162]

11 minutes ago, Double OKP said:

Nomura-san certainly wouldn't have given him one if he wouldn't use it in the future 

Exaaactly. I think that's why we got that whole scene of him meeting Riku in Re:Mind. If Demyx is the MoM and Riku met him in Quadratum, there wouldn't be any impact for Riku if he'd never met Demyx before. He'd just stare at him like "Okay. Who're you?" But now he'll be like "wtf, DEMYX?" (And then Xigbar takes the phone to talk to Riku because he's the tsukkomi of this duo.)

SPEAKING OF WHICH. Another thing I enjoyed about this new khux update is how the MoM said that Darkness doesn't follow a regular human train of thought and Luxu pointed out that the MoM has that in common with him.

Vanitas is clearly very hard for Sora and Ventus to talk to. lol If you think about the way that everyone reacts to Demyx, they think he isn't normal. Sora's first reaction is even "You're bizarre." I don't think it's a coincidence that Xigbar is the only person who seems unfazed by his strangeness. He already gets it. MoM and Demyx are like... Borderline denpa. They aren't stupid. They're just........... From a different universe. (Maybe literally.)