Wonderland - A sleeping world?

[Ursalink 113]

I just thought about something.   
  
According to the movie of "Alice in Wonderland", Wonderland itself was nothing more than a crazy dream Alice had while she was asleep in the park. So, could this mean Wonderland is like a Sleeping World? After all, when Alice woke up, Wonderland literally ceased to exist. So, could Wonderland be considered a very special kind of Sleeping World?

[Darkfire1408 43]

 If you consider Disney's live action sequel, it didn't cease to exist, she just left. It may be considered similar to Traverse Town, a world that appears when and where someone has need of it. Both times, Wonderland was an escape for Alice. Once it was from a boring lesson, then it was from an engagement she wanted no part in (as best as I remember, haven't seen the sequel in so long). So maybe it's a world that appears when someone needs to run away, like how traverse town appears to those who need a home. Sora, Donald, and Goofy were led there by the keyblade to find and protect Alice, ultimately failing as she was taken by the cabal. Since Alice was no longer in danger after KH1, and Sora and company never had to run away from anywhere, it only showed up in CoM and Coded since.

[Ursalink 113]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:41 PM, Darkfire1408 said:

 If you consider Disney's live action sequel, it didn't cease to exist, she just left. It may be considered similar to Traverse Town, a world that appears when and where someone has need of it. Both times, Wonderland was an escape for Alice. Once it was from a boring lesson, then it was from an engagement she wanted no part in (as best as I remember, haven't seen the sequel in so long). So maybe it's a world that appears when someone needs to run away, like how traverse town appears to those who need a home. Sora, Donald, and Goofy were led there by the keyblade to find and protect Alice, ultimately failing as she was taken by the cabal. Since Alice was no longer in danger after KH1, and Sora and company never had to run away from anywhere, it only showed up in CoM and Coded since.

It's not really a "live-action sequel", more like a "live-action remake". And no, I don't consider it because that movie (along with all the live-actions remakes Disney is doing now) belong to a different "reality" of the animated versions. Elements from this movie could be adapted to make a sequel of the animated version, however. We would still need a remake of "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" to have all the original Princesses of Heart in live-action remakes. And honestly, doing that with Walt Disney's original master piece, would be going too far.   
  
The point of my question is, however, the fact that Wonderland is a world that was created through a dream, Alice's dream. 

[Darkfire1408 43]

20 minutes ago, Ursalink said:

It's not really a "live-action sequel", more like a "live-action remake". And no, I don't consider it because that movie (along with all the live-actions remakes Disney is doing now) belong to a different "reality" of the animated versions. Elements from this movie could be adapted to make a sequel of the animated version, however. We would still need a remake of "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" to have all the original Princesses of Heart in live-action remakes. And honestly, doing that with Walt Disney's original master piece, would be going too far.   
  
The point of my question is, however, the fact that Wonderland is a world that was created through a dream, Alice's dream. 

Well, she references the previous film in it, having been to wonderland once before, which sets it up as a sequel.

[Ursalink 113]

On 10/4/2019 at 1:34 AM, Darkfire1408 said:

Well, she references the previous film in it, having been to wonderland once before, which sets it up as a sequel.

I know that part. But still, the "first journey" in the flashback of the live-action movie doesn't match at all with Alice's animated version.   
  
+ First of all, the Alice in the live-action's flashback looks younger than the animated Alice.   
+ In the animated version, Absalom (or Mr Caterpillar) became a butterfly quite quickly; but in the live-action, he was still a caterpillar, as if he never turned into a butterfly.   
+ The Red Queen was clearly influenced by the Queen of Hearts, but she should have been named as "Queen of Hearts" to keep continuity with the animated version; which it didn't happen.   
+ And most importantly, Alice's animated version of Wonderland wasn't at all as "gothic/creepy/spooky" as the live-action version. (We own that to Tim Burton's style). 

[Darkfire1408 43]

Yeah, but you can consider most of those differences to be due to the imagination of a child vs the reality of the situation.

[Ursalink 113]

42 minutes ago, Darkfire1408 said:

Yeah, but you can consider most of those differences to be due to the imagination of a child vs the reality of the situation.

I repeat, back in the flashback of the live-action, Alice is younger than in the animated version. In that flashback, Alice looks like having 8 years at least, or maybe even younger. She looks like 18 years in the present time of the live-action. And the animated version of Alice, she looked like a girl of 11 years, more or less. This clearly prooves the animated version and the Live-Action don't share the same continuity. 

[ienzo628 548]

On 10/6/2019 at 7:00 PM, Ursalink said:

I repeat, back in the flashback of the live-action, Alice is younger than in the animated version. In that flashback, Alice looks like having 8 years at least, or maybe even younger. She looks like 18 years in the present time of the live-action. And the animated version of Alice, she looked like a girl of 11 years, more or less. This clearly proves the animated version and the Live-Action don't share the same continuity. 

I consider the Tim Burton's Alice In Wonderland completely different from the Disney animated one from the 1950s.  The animated one did have some characters cut out like the Jabberwocky because at the time, they didn't have the technology to animate it.

https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Jabberwocky_(1951)

 

[Ursalink 113]

2 hours ago, ienzo628 said:

I consider the Tim Burton's Alice In Wonderland completely different from the Disney animated one from the 1950s.  The animated one did have some characters cut out like the Jabberwocky because at the time, they didn't have the technology to animate it.

https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Jabberwocky_(1951)

 

Exactly. But you know?, since technology is now more advanced, maybe they could use it to make a sequel of the original animated version and introduce these deleted elements. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

On 9/30/2019 at 2:41 PM, Darkfire1408 said:

 If you consider Disney's live action sequel, it didn't cease to exist, she just left. It may be considered similar to Traverse Town, a world that appears when and where someone has need of it. Both times, Wonderland was an escape for Alice. Once it was from a boring lesson, then it was from an engagement she wanted no part in (as best as I remember, haven't seen the sequel in so long). So maybe it's a world that appears when someone needs to run away, like how traverse town appears to those who need a home. Sora, Donald, and Goofy were led there by the keyblade to find and protect Alice, ultimately failing as she was taken by the cabal. Since Alice was no longer in danger after KH1, and Sora and company never had to run away from anywhere, it only showed up in CoM and Coded since.

That is a very curious way of looking at it, and it would make sense! I would love for there to be a live action Alice world in future KH games so that Sora and the gang can see how much things changed when Alice left Wonderland! And since she's no longer a Princess Of Heart, that could factor into the KH Universe for a unique storyline!

[Darkfire1408 43]

4 hours ago, The Transcendent Key said:

That is a very curious way of looking at it, and it would make sense! I would love for there to be a live action Alice world in future KH games so that Sora and the gang can see how much things changed when Alice left Wonderland! And since she's no longer a Princess Of Heart, that could factor into the KH Universe for a unique storyline!

It could, she could still be a princess of heart though, like how Kairi kept protecting her light. The only ones we know of the new set are Rapunzel, Elsa, Anna, and Kairi. Still 3 unaccounted for.

[Ursalink 113]

2 hours ago, Darkfire1408 said:

It could, she could still be a princess of heart though, like how Kairi kept protecting her light. The only ones we know of the new set are Rapunzel, Elsa, Anna, and Kairi. Still 3 unaccounted for.

Kairi kept her power because she's the only member who is part of the "essence" of this franchise. Like Sora and Riku, she's an exclusive characters of Kingdom Hearts' itself, no part of Disney or Final Fantasy. 

There are four candidates for the remaining 3 roles and who could appear in a future game: Pocahontas, Merida, Tiana and Moana. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

On 10/31/2019 at 6:26 PM, Darkfire1408 said:

It could, she could still be a princess of heart though, like how Kairi kept protecting her light. The only ones we know of the new set are Rapunzel, Elsa, Anna, and Kairi. Still 3 unaccounted for.

True, but I would think that the remaining three could be Tiana, Merida and Kida. And that they'd be introduced in the next saga.

[Ursalink 113]

2 hours ago, The Transcendent Key said:

True, but I would think that the remaining three could be Tiana, Merida and Kida. And that they'd be introduced in the next saga.

Kida? The one from "Atlantis: The lost empire"? I don't think so. This movie's world will definitely appear in the future, especially because of the part of "The Heart of Atlantis", but Kida doesn't fit for a "heart of pure light", considering how serious and violent her world is. She's not even from the Disney Princesses' franchise. (I know Alice isn't either, but Alice fits the kind of personality of the other princesses). Kida would fit more for party member. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

On 11/3/2019 at 5:16 PM, Ursalink said:

Kida? The one from "Atlantis: The lost empire"? I don't think so. This movie's world will definitely appear in the future, especially because of the part of "The Heart of Atlantis", but Kida doesn't fit for a "heart of pure light", considering how serious and violent her world is. She's not even from the Disney Princesses' franchise. (I know Alice isn't either, but Alice fits the kind of personality of the other princesses). Kida would fit more for party member. 

True, but Kida is noble and she puts the needs of her people before her own, and she wants nothing more than to liberate her people from poverty and extinction. And she has an undying warrior's spirit, so I think that more than qualifies her to be a Princess Of Heart. But who knows? Nomura may have someone else in mind.

[Ursalink 113]

On 11/6/2019 at 9:16 PM, The Transcendent Key said:

True, but Kida is noble and she puts the needs of her people before her own, and she wants nothing more than to liberate her people from poverty and extinction. And she has an undying warrior's spirit, so I think that more than qualifies her to be a Princess Of Heart. But who knows? Nomura may have someone else in mind.

As regents of their Kingdoms, Jasmine, Anna and Elsa share those traits, and they know how to fight too. However, Kida's heart could be "tainted" because of the trauma about the catastrophe that caused Atlantis' destruction, seeing her mother disappearing as a child and spending centuries fighting for survival in the remains of a previously powerful civilization. And in one of the scenes of the movie, the king of Atlantis said Kida had killed previous strangers that found Atlantis in the past. I doubt your heart can be pure if your hands have blood in them. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

On 11/7/2019 at 9:20 PM, Ursalink said:

As regents of their Kingdoms, Jasmine, Anna and Elsa share those traits, and they know how to fight too. However, Kida's heart could be "tainted" because of the trauma about the catastrophe that caused Atlantis' destruction, seeing her mother disappearing as a child and spending centuries fighting for survival in the remains of a previously powerful civilization. And in one of the scenes of the movie, the king of Atlantis said Kida had killed previous strangers that found Atlantis in the past. I doubt your heart can be pure if your hands have blood in them. 

Hmm, that is certainly a very valid point you have there. So honestly, now that you mention it, that would put Kida out of the running, huh?

[Ursalink 113]

On 12/26/2019 at 4:37 AM, The Transcendent Key said:

Hmm, that is certainly a very valid point you have there. So honestly, now that you mention it, that would put Kida out of the running, huh?

Very likely, yeah. Atlantis would definitely be an ideal world for Kingdom Hearts, and Kida would be a perfect party's member, but she's not pure enough to be considered a Princess of Heart. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

4 hours ago, Ursalink said:

Very likely, yeah. Atlantis would definitely be an ideal world for Kingdom Hearts, and Kida would be a perfect party's member, but she's not pure enough to be considered a Princess of Heart. 

It makes me wonder what would happen with Wonderland if there ever came a time when an adult Alice would appear in the KH series. But since in KHIII, the mantle of Princess Of Heart has been passed on to others all except for Kairi, could this mean that Alice may have doffed the mantle?

[Ursalink 113]

On 12/31/2019 at 4:03 AM, The Transcendent Key said:

It makes me wonder what would happen with Wonderland if there ever came a time when an adult Alice would appear in the KH series. But since in KHIII, the mantle of Princess Of Heart has been passed on to others all except for Kairi, could this mean that Alice may have doffed the mantle?

I don't know, honestly. Looks like Disney World are almost trapped on the same stories over and over. I mean, in KH:UX, we had the worlds of the original Disney Princesses with the stories of their movies, and centuries later (on Sora's era), it seems they were trapped in the same story. We were told the light was passed to new princesses, but something tells me the original princesses' role could not be over. 

[The Transcendent Key 12,109]

On 1/2/2020 at 2:44 PM, Ursalink said:

I don't know, honestly. Looks like Disney World are almost trapped on the same stories over and over. I mean, in KH:UX, we had the worlds of the original Disney Princesses with the stories of their movies, and centuries later (on Sora's era), it seems they were trapped in the same story. We were told the light was passed to new princesses, but something tells me the original princesses' role could not be over. 

Well, I'm sure we shall get to exploring Sleeping Worlds in the future, so the answers could lie there, ya know?

[Ventus_ 396]

If one considers Tim Burton's live action sequel of sorts, Wonderland didn't cease to exist, illustrated by Alice's ability to leave and return to the human world conscious and soiled from the rabbit hole. 

She merely THOUGHT it was a dream. 

In the animated film and original Lewis Carroll novel, it's more or less Schrodinger's cat. 
While we do see her in these adaptions, escape via awakening from a slumber, perhaps dreaming is just one way into Wonderland. 

It could be a Narnia/Coraline concept, in that it appears to youths in need of escape in whatever form is convenient. 
Think about it, in the animated film and the novel Alice finds Wonderland while bored out of her mind studying and in the Tim Burton version she finds it while running in conflict from an arranged engagement.