Non numbered titles being called "spin-offs"

[jbmasta 67]

Sometimes people will say the non numbered titles in the series are spin-offs. This annoys me and it's an inaccurate description. A spin-off concerns a different narrative, even if there may be some of the same characters. Angel as a spin-off from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Doctor Who getting spin-offs in K9 and Company, Sarah Jane Adventures, Torchwood and Class. This so far has not happened with Kingdom Hearts, the closest is Union X.

All the console games so far deal with the Xehanort or Dark Seeker Saga, and tie into it even if it's a cutscene at the very end like re:coded. They all add something to the lore that the Dark Seeker Saga uses. Obviously the numbered titles are important, and Birth by Sleep and Dream Drop Distance add just as much to the lore and ongoing storyline, and use new worlds and world designs. Chain of Memories is a bit trickier. While it does recycle worlds from KH1 and exists largely to fill in blanks Nomura realised would be there for KH2's backstory, it still adds a lot to the lore. Introducing Nobodies, the Organisation, Namine, DiZ, kicking off Riku's redemption arc proper as well as first hinting at Roxas and Twilight Town. 358/2 Days and re:coded are more blatant efforts at filling in gaps in the backstory, shown especially in the world recycling from previous games. Days does foreshadow the importance of replicas, as well as the development of Nobodies being able to grow new hearts.

Basically, just because it's not a numbered title doesn't mean it's not important to the overall narrative an if you dismiss a Kingdom Hearts game that's not 1, 2 or 3 chances are you'll be very confused if you only play 1, 2 and/or 3.

[LightKeyDarkBlade 72]

It's actually accurate to call them spin-offs. However, we need to make clear of the definition of a "spin-off".

A spin-off is a work that is derived from existing works, telling a story in a different aspect but in the same setting. A spin-off can then either choose to either deviate completely from the main storyline or to remain in it. In the case of the KH series, the spin-offs focus on characters other than the main protagonist Sora (except for Re:CoM and DDD), telling their sides of the story while at the same time, expand the plot of the Dark Seeker Saga (up to KHⅢ) without deviating from it. Re:CoM serves as the bridge between the first two mainline games while the others introduce the background of characters (and are also the bridges between KHⅡ and KHⅢ) and eventually, everything converges and culminates in KHⅢ.

So calling them as spin-offs is not wrong. It's just that people have the misconception that "spin-offs" are supposed to have nothing to do with the main narrative and so the spin-offs of the KH series are supposed to be unimportant. Then, they complain that the spin-offs are too closely tied to the mainline games. It just doesn't make sense.

[Darkfire1408 43]

On 8/11/2019 at 6:34 AM, Kenneth Choo said:

It's actually accurate to call them spin-offs. However, we need to make clear of the definition of a "spin-off".

A spin-off is a work that is derived from existing works, telling a story in a different aspect but in the same setting. A spin-off can then either choose to either deviate completely from the main storyline or to remain in it. In the case of the KH series, the spin-offs focus on characters other than the main protagonist Sora (except for Re:CoM and DDD), telling their sides of the story while at the same time, expand the plot of the Dark Seeker Saga (up to KHⅢ) without deviating from it. Re:CoM serves as the bridge between the first two mainline games while the others introduce the background of characters (and are also the bridges between KHⅡ and KHⅢ) and eventually, everything converges and culminates in KHⅢ.

So calling them as spin-offs is not wrong. It's just that people have the misconception that "spin-offs" are supposed to have nothing to do with the main narrative and so the spin-offs of the KH series are supposed to be unimportant. Then, they complain that the spin-offs are too closely tied to the mainline games. It just doesn't make sense.

Well, let's use your definition then.

BBS. Focuses on the wayfinder trio, and Master Xehanort, the big bad of the series. It shows how Terra, Aqua, and Ventus each influenced Sora, Riku, and Kairi directly in their Childhood. Ventus Merged with Sora's Heart, Terra gave Riku a Keyblade, and Aqua gave Kairi the protection charm that led her to Sora and Riku when her world was destroyed. It also shows Xehanorts ambitions, character, and history. This would be considered a prequel. Prequels are almost never considered spin-offs. If that were the case, episodes 1, 2, and 3 of Star Wars would be considered spin-offs.

BBS A Fragmentary Passage. Focuses on Aqua's wandering of the realm of darkness, shows her meeting Mickey again and helping him get the keyblade he needed to seal the door to darkness. She ends up saving Riku's life and allowing him and Mickey to reach Sora. This doesn't tie in as well as BBS, but it should still be considered a prequel.

COM Picks up directly after KH1, and introduces Organization 13. It also shows how Riku and Mickey escaped the realm of darkness, and explains why Sora was asleep for the course of a year at the start of KH2. Keep in mind as well, that COM, not RE:COM, came out before KH2. It wasn't a bridge, it was a direct sequel to KH1.

Days literally covers every day between COM and KH2, explaining more about the organization and the replica program, and showing how nobodies can grow hearts. It has a large focus on how Sora's memories torment and confuse Roxas and Xion, to the point where they nearly lose their sense of identity.

Coded's main plot involves testing Data-Sora to see if the real Sora can handle the hurt of the hearts he's connected to. He's proven to be capable, and Mickey is reminded of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus, which leads to the search for them in KH3.

DDD shows Riku and Sora's MoM exam. Sora is dragged down into darkness, nearly becoming a seeker of darkness. This shows off more of Master Xehanort's plan, as well as showing his organization's power, how near he was to completing it. This adds a sense of urgency to KH3 that wouldn't otherwise exist.

Now, if you've followed along, there's a couple common themes here. In each one of them, even the ones where Sora isn't the main protagonist, the plot of the game still centers on Sora. In addition, each one also focuses on Master Xehanort, or the after-effect of his actions. BBS is Xehanort's origin, BBS AFP is the fate of Aqua because of his actions, COM centers on the betrayal of some members of his Organization, Days explores that organization further, Coded is exposing the fates of Aqua, Terra, and Ventus to the protagonists, and moving them to act, and DDD is when almost all of his plan was revealed. So, all of them are core entries to the series, focusing on Sora and Xehanort in the Dark Seeker Saga, and shouldn't be considered spin-offs. Now, whatever comes next, whatever characters they focus on, it'll be a new saga, and every further entry will be considered a spin-off. Spin-offs have nothing to do with length or depth of story, just the content, focus, protagonists and antagonists. The main protagonist and antagonist of the series are focused on in each entry. So, none of them are spin-offs.

[jbmasta 67]

3 hours ago, Darkfire1408 said:

Coded's main plot involves testing Data-Sora to see if the real Sora can handle the hurt of the hearts he's connected to. He's proven to be capable, and Mickey is reminded of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus, which leads to the search for them in KH3.

Coded also establishes the reason for Sora to undertake the Mark of Mastery exam, to unlock the Power of Waking to restore the hearts connected to his, and thus links into the Kingdom Hearts 2 epilogue. Blank Points, the Birth by Sleep secret movie,  expands on this by having Sora verbally acknowledge he owes who he is to the people he's now able to rescue. re:coded's secret ending establishes that when the Heartless and Nobody of an individual are defeated, the original Somebody is restored, which is important to how a number of characters are able to appear even after their Nobodies are killed as well as what prompts Yen Sid to decide Sora has to take the exam since he and Mickey fear the return of the restored Xehanort after Sora saw off Ansem and Xemnas (and aren't aware that Master Xehanort took over Terra's body).

Dream Drop Distance is key to Riku's redemption character arc. By undertaking the Mark of Mastery exam he aims to prove to himself he's overcome the darkness he once fell prey to. He's finally able to overcome his self-doubt by defeating Ansem (who has lost his mental hold over Riku by now) and earning the title of Keyblade Master as well as rescuing Sora by awakening his heart after the ordeal Young Xehanort put it through. .One positive about this is that it's one less character arc Kingdom Hearts 3 had to resolve, and god knows it had plenty to conclude anyway. The time travel mechanics retroactively explain why Ansem appeared on Destiny Islands in Kingdom Hearts 1, and give a reason for Young Xehanort to be present in the Land of Departure (as the Unknown Figure bonus boss) during Birth by Sleep, which Nomura confirms is canon in-story (taking place just before the player character has the Keyblade Graveyard endgame).

[ocean's rage 775]

here's an idea why dont we call them "kingdom hearts games" and not worry about what's a spin off and whats not

[FadedSparkle 20]

Honestly I think a lot of the reason why people call them spin off games is because of how the games themselves were marketed. Square Enix and Disney put a lot more stock into Kingdom Hearts 1, 2, and 3 when it came to marketing thus giving off a sense to the Kingdom Hearts series fanbase that the rest of the games are either not important or not as important. Had they been more consistent with their marketing with each of the other entries not only would they have sold better right out of the gate upon their original release (except for the obvious issue of Coded being an episodic mobile game release), but the fanbase wouldn't have felt the need to label everything outside of 1, 2, and 3 a "Spin-off" or "Side Game". It shows a lot in that the GBA version of Chain of Memories exceeded a million sales worldwide.

A fine feat in its own right, but only half of what Kingdom Hearts 1 managed worldwide in vanilla release before it, and far less than half of what Kingdom Hearts 2 managed in vanilla release worldwide after it. Both of them having gotten much bigger not to mention longer marketing campaigns. It's not just an issue of GBA vs PS2. At the time if you had a PS2 at home you most likely had a GBA too for on the go gaming. It's the lack of devoting the same effort to marketing the handheld title launched between them that left Chain of Memories as the black sheep of this first trio of Kingdom Hearts games. They would repeat the mistake with 358/2 Days and the Re-issue of Coded on the DS line, with Birth by Sleep on the PSP, and with Dream Drop Distance on the 3DS. It was honestly their own actions that conditioned the fanbase.

I would also like to mention that they put a huge amount of marketing into Kingdom Hearts 3 like it was any kind of necessary at all. The game had been an awaited and anticipated title for 5-10 years depending on who you asked. All the money that went into the marketing for it should've been going into making the game better or long since been used up on marketing for all the games between Kingdom Hearts 2 and 3. It is the single biggest waste of time that went into Kingdom Hearts 3. The game would have become a best seller with similar total sales figures as it currently has with a literal quarter of the marketing that went into it.

Edited April 14, 2022 by FadedSparkle

[Connected 978]

I kinda get it but games like Re: Chain of Memories and Dream Drop Distance shouldn't be considered as a spin-off imo since Com picks up where Kh1 ended continues the main story. Same with DDD that picks up where Kh2 left. 

[ienzo628 548]

10 hours ago, Connected said:

I kinda get it but games like Re: Chain of Memories and Dream Drop Distance shouldn't be considered as a spin-off imo since Com picks up where Kh1 ended continues the main story. Same with DDD that picks up where Kh2 left. 

What about Re:Coded?

[Connected 978]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:44 AM, ienzo628 said:

What about Re:Coded?

Since the REAL Sora isn't the main protagonist you can consider it as a spin-off. It was also more the story about Mickey and crew investigated the Journey. 

[ienzo628 548]

On 8/16/2019 at 2:17 AM, Connected said:

Since the REAL Sora isn't the main protagonist you can consider it as a spin-off. It was also more the story about Mickey and crew investigated the Journey. 

Yeah by turning the journal into a digital world.