Nomura's hatred for Kairi and Roxas.

[vrovvv 8]

This post contains heavy spoilers.

Spoiler

 

After letting the story sit with me for a while it feels wrong. Really weird and just wrong. Nomura obviously cares about the story of the games and I want to believe he didn't just mindlessly put together the ending of the xehanort saga. But what I truly get from how poorly many characters were handled is that Nomura kinda hates them. That he regrets creating them. Mainly Roxas and Kairi. They were done dirty. Lemme explain.

Firstly, kairi. Well, what even is there to say that hasn't been said.

- 0 character development  √

- Total disregard for the whole "this time I'll fight" thing  √

- kidnapped again to move the plot along √

- death being absolutely meaningless since she comes back before the game even ends √

I'm just done with her. She's nothing. She is the character I dislike the most. There is so much wrong with her portrayal that I can't care anymore. She has no character. She is the most blank, surface level excuse of a character ever. You quite literally can't name one thing that sets her apart from the other female cast. Nothing that makes a memorable character. What's her arc? What motivates her? What weakness does she have? You could probably guess but no matter what you answer to these very basic questions, your answer probably also describes every other main character. She is an absolutely atrocious character and I honestly feel like its weird to disagree with this statement. Nomura had the chance to have her doing something in this game but as I said before, it looks like he doesn't care about her. Its pretty clear that the strong female character of the series is Aqua, she's the one Nomura wants the female audience to identify with. Kairi is a tired plot device that needs to either drastically change or be written off this series already. 

And now we get to my big, huge, enormous problem with the characters in this game. Roxas. I honestly believe Nomura despises this dude. It literally feels like he is actively trying to write him off the series altogether. First of all, Roxas had an insanely small amount of screen time. Less than Axel, less than Saix, less than Riku replica, less than demyx. That's embarrassing on its own but when you really think about what he did while on screen, or rather, what he didn't do, it becomes clear that Nomura hates him. Remember in days when Roxas after butchering saix, leaves the organization and ends up killing his best friend, all because of Xemnas? Remember how Roxas tried to track down kingdom hearts and was warned by riku that he would be destroyed by the organization but he WAS NOT scared by that idea at all? How riku was the only reason Roxas never got his fight with his big nemesis, Xemnas? Well Nomura, hating Roxas, chose to completely forget all of that in order to have Roxas instead of fighting , you know, xemnas,  have him fighting saix again. Why..just why dude...what does roxas gain as a character from defeating saix again..horrible writing...This time he had help as well, something he didn't need before to slap around saix. Sora was the one that defeated roxas's nemesis. A guy he's already defeated 2 times in the past. Not to mention how much more powerful xemnas's speech surrounding emotions, being human and suffering would be had he said these things to someone like roxas, who, like xemnas, grew out of being a nobody but on the opposite side of the same coin. One of them embraced his feelings and the other tried to run away from them to the very end. That speech would be great if said to Roxas. Cause sora doesn't gain anything from it as it is. But no, nomura wouldn't let Roxas have even the slightest bit of importance to the story. All the foreshadowing about how Roxas would make up the difference when sora needed him had no payoff since he literally did nothing. Also remember how everyone wanted Roxas to meet ven and at the very least have a bit of back and forth with him? Well...I mean...they look at each other...that's enough right...you know..the dudes that look exactly alike and could have some really funny banter..just see each other...that's enough right? See, Nomura knows that people wanted certain battles and moments to exist in the game for some characters. He knew people wanted to see the main characters facing their respective nemesis and Nomura delivered that, only with the characters he cares about. Sora gets his one on one with Xehanort, Aqua with terranort, ven with vanitas, Axel with saix and so on. But when it comes to roxas...well nomura doesn't really care. It looks like he's trying to only keep ven around cause having 2 characters who look the same is apparently too much for him. That's why ven is now tied to the ux story, the story that will move the story past kh3 and Roxas has nothing to do going forward. The one thing he should have done was robbed from him. 

Spoiler

 

 

[AnotherXehanort13 22]

Spoiler

Kairi wasn't useless, she brought Sora back from death 

 

[vrovvv 8]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:11 PM, AnotherXehanort13 said:

Spoiler

Kairi wasn't useless, she brought Sora back from death 

 

Spoiler

First of all, she's done that in the past (literally the exact same thing) and secondly, this still changes nothing about her garbage character. The fact that she can do that is actually random. She didn't choose to have the power of a princess of heart. It just happened to her. The fact that she can save sora is random. She didn't work for it, she didn't earn it. She lacks incentives, desires, clear motivation, character arc, character progression, character flaws, humor...she's a joke of a character. The laziest way to write something. Hot trash. 

 

[ocean's rage 772]

11 hours ago, vrovvv said:

First of all, she's done that in the past (literally the exact same thing) 

no she hasnt

[vrovvv 8]

1 hour ago, ocean's rage said:

no she hasnt

Sora turned into a heartless and she immediately saved him. You could argue that sora wasn't "dead" but its basically the same thing. Having her saving sora like that is definitely not a new thing. 

[ocean's rage 772]

54 minutes ago, vrovvv said:

Sora turned into a heartless and she immediately saved him. You could argue that sora wasn't "dead" but its basically the same thing. Having her saving sora like that is definitely not a new thing. 

you said it was the exact same thing but it wasnt

[vrovvv 8]

On 3/29/2019 at 12:02 PM, ocean's rage said:

you said it was the exact same thing but it wasnt

What's the difference story wise?

[ocean's rage 772]

On 3/29/2019 at 1:31 PM, vrovvv said:

What's the difference story wise?

im just pointing out that there is a difference between being turned back from a heartless and being brought back to life regardless of what role they play in the over all story

[Karxrida 154]

Spoiler

How does Nomura hate Roxas? Roxas is literally the only character to not job (he's actually OP af during the Saïx fight), has major story focus, and finally gets a happy ending.

 

Like I get being dissatisfied with the writing because it's Nomura and III was kind of sloppy, but I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that he hates Roxas.

 

Kairi's problem is that she's a girl in a shonen-esque story, and Nomura clearly has no idea how to handle her.

 

[vrovvv 8]

15 hours ago, Karxrida said:

  Hide contents

How does Nomura hate Roxas? Roxas is literally the only character to not job (he's actually OP af during the Saïx fight), has major story focus, and finally gets a happy ending.

 

Like I get being dissatisfied with the writing because it's Nomura and III was kind of sloppy, but I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that he hates Roxas.

 

Kairi's problem is that she's a girl in a shonen-esque story, and Nomura clearly has no idea how to handle her.

 

Spoiler

 

1. Roxas had already defeated saix in the past. Bringing him back only to do it again is moronic.

2. The battle Nomura knew everyone wanted was Roxas vs Xemnas. He instead chose to have sora defeating him again. Xemnas's final words would actually mean something if said to roxas but Nomura didn't want him to have that character scene.

3. Less screentime than Demyx.

4. Zero interaction with anyone but Axel and xion. He never even talked with any other guardian.

5. "He'll make up the difference" line had no payoff.

6. He ex machina'd his way to the keyblade graveyard. With out even having a body as well. He literally dropped in. We see his heart exiting sora and then what? How did his body get there? Why drop from the sky? All of this screams that Nomura just wanted his scenes to be over with and didn't even bother having them make sense. I don't care if he wants to show how he did it in the upcoming dlc. Thats not an excuse.

 

 

[littleTSUBAME 483]

On 3/30/2019 at 5:07 PM, vrovvv said:

  Hide contents

 

1. Roxas had already defeated saix in the past. Bringing him back only to do it again is moronic.

2. The battle Nomura knew everyone wanted was Roxas vs Xemnas. He instead chose to have sora defeating him again. Xemnas's final words would actually mean something if said to roxas but Nomura didn't want him to have that character scene.

3. Less screentime than Demyx.

4. Zero interaction with anyone but Axel and xion. He never even talked with any other guardian.

5. "He'll make up the difference" line had no payoff.

6. He ex machina'd his way to the keyblade graveyard. With out even having a body as well. He literally dropped in. We see his heart exiting sora and then what? How did his body get there? Why drop from the sky? All of this screams that Nomura just wanted his scenes to be over with and didn't even bother having them make sense. I don't care if he wants to show how he did it in the upcoming dlc. Thats not an excuse.

 

 

I get that you’re salty he didn’t have more screentime, but these things still don’t mean Nomura hates Roxas. Almost all of the things you said are most likely due to the poor pacing, and Nomura having to give attention to way too many characters all at once. Roxas isn’t the only character to get minimal screentime. Terra didn’t have much either, let alone Xion or Namine. The reason he did get so little screentime is because he only came back so late, and it wouldn’t have made sense to bring him back earlier.

About Roxas&Xion vs Saix on the other hand... I really liked it tbh? It makes sense Nomura would save all the Xehanorts (including Xemnas, naturally) for Sora, since he IS the main character after all. Sure, Roxas vs Xemnas could have been cool, but having Saix there made sense. Plus, this time Xion was there too and she really deserved a chance to get her payback too lol. Also, Saix wanted to atone for what he did to the Seasalt trio, so it kinda makes sense for his arc, too, that they would be the ones to defeat him. not really the best way to redeem a character if you ask me, but it does make sense even if it’s not the best writing.

[vrovvv 8]

Its better to have sora defeating xemnas again? Instead of having roxas do it? Ooook? I'd be down with the xion "getting her revenge" arguement if the saix battle was her and axel vs saix, while having roxas fulfilling the one thing left for him to do in the series. Roxas has already bested saix. His 2 minute appearance would have been better fitted fighting alongside sora. Sora and his nobody versus Xehanort and his nobody. Which was what literally everyone was expecting, because it actually makes sense. What we got was  rushed and anticlimactic . And the sad thing is that Roxas's arc is done. Nomura had the chance to give him a truly satisfying resolution but chose to go with this embarrassing excuse of a fight. 

[littleTSUBAME 483]

On 4/3/2019 at 3:45 AM, vrovvv said:

Its better to have sora defeating xemnas again? Instead of having roxas do it? Ooook? I'd be down with the xion "getting her revenge" arguement if the saix battle was her and axel vs saix, while having roxas fulfilling the one thing left for him to do in the series. Roxas has already bested saix. His 2 minute appearance would have been better fitted fighting alongside sora. Sora and his nobody versus Xehanort and his nobody. Which was what literally everyone was expecting, because it actually makes sense. What we got was  rushed and anticlimactic . And the sad thing is that Roxas's arc is done. Nomura had the chance to give him a truly satisfying resolution but chose to go with this embarrassing excuse of a fight. 

EDIT: I originally wrote a very long response here, but you know what? I think we can agree to disagree on this.

Personally I don’t think Roxas vs. Xemnas would have been vital for Roxas’ character arc or the overall story of KH3, but I do agree it’s an interesting idea. Just one that I wasn’t really expecting and thus I’m not disappointed we didn’t get it. To me the most important thing was that Roxas got his reunion with Axel and Xion, and making Roxas run off with Sora to defeat Xemnas would have ruined the moment completely. And having them defeat Xemnas then and there would have ruined the YMX/Xemnas/Ansem fight (that Nomura probably wanted there to set up the stage for the final Xehanort fight).

I’m not saying what we got was objectively better, but I liked it and I understand Nomura’s reasoning behind it.

But if you feel differently, that’s okay.

Edited April 4, 2019 by littleTSUBAME

[Nahara Vol.5 19]

Nobody is going to mention how Axel/Lea went from absolute badass and complex character to comic relief?

I thought he of all people got the short hand of the stick

[vrovvv 8]

13 hours ago, Nahara Vol.5 said:

Nobody is going to mention how Axel/Lea went from absolute badass and complex character to comic relief?

I thought he of all people got the short hand of the stick

Honestly that doesn't bother me that much. It's noticeable and I feel bad for the people who liked him better before but I feel like Axel got a better treatment. He stood up for himself against xemnas, and actually tried to attack him, protected kairi (by taking terranort's hit), called out saix on his bs and got his reunion with both Roxas and xion. He had some cool 4rth wall breaking moments too. But again, if you feel like they made him somewhat of a  comedy relief character I agree. But since the humor wasn't bad, it was fine for me. And he didn't feel like a joke character (like Demyx).

Edited April 4, 2019 by vrovvv