When People Compare KH3 To KH2

[Tails 6,690]

OK I have seen so many people in the Kingdom Hearts community compare Kingdom Hearts 3 to Kingdom Hearts 2 and it's seriously annoying. When people are comparing Kingdom Hearts 3 to Kingdom Hearts 2 they are mainly comparing the final mix version of Kingdom Hearts 2 instead of the original Kingdom Hearts 2. Like, I get it, everyone wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be the next KH2FM in terms of gameplay, story telling, and game content. Like, every video I go to about KH3 people are all like "Kingdom Hearts 3 was a disappointment. It's the worst game of 2019!" Or "It's sad how a PS4 game that took 5 years to be developed not surpass KH2". But everyone had these SAME exact complaints about the original Kingdom Hearts 2 when it came out saying how the KH2 is too easy compared to Kingdom Hearts 1 because of reaction commands, drive forms, limits, ect. And also the fact that you had to do a finisher just to beat a boss.  Now ever since KH3 came out everyone pretty much forgot vanilla KH2 exists and how everyone complained about the things I've mentioned. And another thing, people are complaining about how KH3's optional boss is super easy and that Sephiroth in KH2 was "much harder" when, if I recall correctly, everyone said the exact same thing about KH2 Sephiroth. Yeah, remember how everyone kept comparing KH2 Sephiroth to KH1 Sephiroth? Yup this is that exact same situation all over again. Also, I feel like everyone in the Kingdom Hearts community got so spoiled with Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix ever since it became available via Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 Remix on PS3/PS4. Like, everyone just now expects every KH game in the future to be EXACTLY like KH2FM in terms of gameplay mechanics and whatnot. As well as post game content. Like, don't get me wrong, I don't blame fans for wanting that kind of stuff for Kingdom Hearts 3 since it has been really anticipated for a long time in the KH community. But, because of everyone's high expectations, KH3 is being considered "bad" or "the worst game of 2019" just because it didn't surpass KH2FM with all of it's crazy content. Heck people are pretty much begging KH3's DLC to include some form of "Data Organization XIII battles" of the Organization members you fight towards the end of the game. That's how big of an impact KH2FM has had on the KH community ever since it became available worldwide. Like, I'll admit that I, myself" had these expectations as well. Yeah I'm not gonna lie. But was I disappointed in KH3 because it simply isn't KH2FM or at least didn't live up to that game? Well, not really? I mean yeah I'll agree that the pacing in the game is awful and the story telling with saving all the other KH protagonists could have been done better but still. I still enjoyed the game for what it was instead of just whining about it not being up to par with KH2FM. Like I did with Final Fantasy XV when that came out. Yes, I was disappointed in its story and pacing but it's not an terrible. Ohoho no. It's certainly not a Sonic 06. Just like with KH3. It's an alright game I will admit (although that may change depending on what's to come with the upcoming DLC) but it's no Sonic 06 like everybody's making it out to be.

 

All I'm saying is...well...it's just kind of annoying that KH3 gets compared to KH2 (mainly the final mix version) in the most unfair way. Like, KH2FM has pretty much blinded most people in the fanbase with their judgement toward KH3. Because if KH2FM never became a thing I bet you that KH3 wouldn't get this much hate and now get compared to it. So yeah, just my two cents. What are your thoughts on these negative criticisms towards KH3?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Tails

[ocean's rage 772]

im a firm believer in the philosophy fans are never happy, even things they love they turn against after a while

[Movies798 1,358]

Well I never heard of the fans complaining about Kingdom Heats 2 back in 2006, because to me the original Kingdom Hearts 2 was a great game to me! Kingdom Hearts 2 was one of my favorite and most fun games I had on the PS2! Plus, I for one find the game pretty hard to me. I play the game on Proud Mode in the original game and it was not easy for me. It may be easy for some Kingdom Hearts fans but it wasn't easy for me. Not every gamer has the same experience playing the same game. Anyway, I agree, most of the fans who complain about Kingdom Hearts 3 and comparing it to Kingdom Hearts 2 are mostly comparing it to Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix. Plus, most fans had their expectations way too high because they wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be the next Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix. I definitely get it but yeah it's pretty annoying. Also it shows us that you can't make everyone happy. I'm sure Nomura and his team had already read the mixed and negative feedbacks from the fans. And I want to believe that they're trying to make the new DLC's some Final Mix content. To be honest if the DLC's are the way to have some Final Mix content. Then I want Nomura and his team to take their time and add a bunch of new stuff for the new DLC this late 2019. I'll definitely pay for it. Also give it time because if the new Kingdom Hearts 3 DLC acts like Final Mix than the fans who complain about Kingdom Hearts 3 will change their minds.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Movies798

[Mkucherina 84]

There's always going to be people in every fandom that criticize the new things that come out. From a personal standpoint, the only reason why I still play the new games is because I'm too invested in the story. I just want to learn more about what's going to happen. The thing about KH2FM is that it provides nostalgia for many KH fans. I could argue that it's the most replayable game in the entire franchise. Since the wait between 2 and 3 was such a long time. Many people have gotten the chance to replay KH2 a whole lot of times now because its the longest and provides the most out of gameplay. I'm sure that whenever KH4 comes out (if I live that long lol), people will be all about how great KH3 was compared to the new Disneyland park worlds, marvel worlds, and star wars worlds, that will be in KH4.

[AnotherXehanort13 22]

Nope sorry, KH2 is simply the better game. Better mechanics weightier combat new characters better combat cinematics better progression better bosses BETTER FINALE HOLY SHIT Better soundtrack and more touching scenes, I only played the FM version last year (which is godly) and can safely say that vanilla KH2 >>>>>>>>>> vanilla KH3. We got to revisit worlds, Kairi at least did some things useful, the heartbreaking Roxas intro, closer combat, more explorable original worlds, etc

The tromp through The World that Never was, all the way up to the final showdown with Xemnas and his ship, skyscrapers flying everywhere, the giant dragon and the ultimate Sora Riku bro team against Zebra xemnas remains THE single best boss fight in a video game to me, an unforgettable, epic finale you just want to play over and over again. 

 

Shooting down a dragon through an endless cityscape, slicing skyscrapers in goddamn HALF, the incredible pick up in the music as the dragon fuzes into the city, Xemnas whispering doubts in your ear as you and Riku baseball bat skyscrapers in his face, "We shall go together" endless reversals, "FIRE" "ARISE", "GUARD" "Why don't you vanish", Riku hand to hand BODYING xemnas off Sora, deflecting 1000s of lightsabers, and the final dual wielded finishing combo

Anyone who thinks the lame no variety Org XIII Royale and Xehanort boss duel comes even close to that, i just cant get 

 

Honestly I think people are abusing the word nostalgia to dismiss valid reasons why people put KH2 over KH3

Edited March 5, 2019 by AnotherXehanort13

[Mkucherina 84]

16 minutes ago, AnotherXehanort13 said:

Nope sorry, KH2 is simply the better game. Better mechanics weightier combat new characters better combat cinematics better progression better bosses BETTER FINALE HOLY SHIT Better soundtrack and more touching scenes, I only played the FM version last year (which is godly) and can safely say that vanilla KH2 >>>>>>>>>> vanilla KH3. We got to revisit worlds, Kairi at least did some things useful, the heartbreaking Roxas intro, closer combat, more explorable original worlds, etc

The tromp through The World that Never was, all the way up to the final showdown with Xemnas and his ship, skyscrapers flying everywhere, the giant dragon and the ultimate Sora Riku bro team against Zebra xemnas remains THE single best boss fight in a video game to me, an unforgettable, epic finale you just want to play over and over again. 

 

Shooting down a dragon through an endless cityscape, slicing skyscrapers in goddamn HALF, the incredible pick up in the music as the dragon fuzes into the city, Xemnas whispering doubts in your ear as you and Riku baseball bat skyscrapers in his face, "We shall go together" endless reversals, "FIRE" "ARISE", "GUARD" "Why don't you vanish", Riku hand to hand BODYING xemnas off Sora, deflecting 1000s of lightsabers, and the final dual wielded finishing combo

Anyone who thinks the lame no variety Org XIII Royale and Xehanort boss duel comes even close to that, i just cant get 

 

Honestly I think people are abusing the word nostalgia to dismiss valid reasons why people put KH2 over KH3

I don't think anyone was arguing that kh3 was better than kh2 lol. They're just saying it's different

[Darkfire1408 43]

Well, I don't think anyone's trying to argue that the combat in KH3 was more exciting, challenging, or better in general than the other games. But there's so much more to a game than the combat. Granted, the pacing was a little off, and the ending wasn't the grand culmination of the series many were hoping for, but how could it ever be? The community's been waiting for it for so long that it's been raised to a mythical standing before it was even released. I personally enjoyed the pacing up until the battle Royale where it started to feel shoved in your face. The subtle hints throughout the story and in each of the worlds give you just enough of an inkling of Xehanort's plan to keep you guessing and on the edge of your seat, but never enough to guess his true intention until he finally reveals it. And the ending is-

Spoiler

-tragically poetic. Before the final battle, Sora and Kairi finally share a paupu fruit, and that bond forged allowed Sora to hold on to his being after death and helped him bring himself and the other guardians back. His strong connection to Ventus had put Namine in contact with Terra after chain of memories, bringing him to the fight as well. And after Kairi dies, Sora uses their bond to bring her back, although he's unable to save himself. It may not have tied everything up in a neat little bow, but it's the end of a saga, not the series.

All in all, it's a wonderful game in it's own right, and the pacing will likely be improved via dlc, as well as the combat difficulty. People do need to stop directly comparing it to KH2, but like any game, it has many flaws. That doesn't mean it's terrible, it just means that it wasn't made by perfect people.

[Green Sparrow 795]

First off, be patient with anyone who says KH3 is the worst game of 2019, because they probably haven't played Jump Force or Crackdown 3 yet

Secondly, I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing KH3 to KH2 at all (vanilla or FM). KH1 gets a pass since it was the first one, but KHFM built off of KH, KH2 built off of KHFM, KH2FM built off of KH2, so it's only natural that people would expect KH3 to build off of KH2FM. The same guy has been directing the entire series, so you would think every entry (or at least every main entry) would improve upon the last. I hope the Final Mix DLC makes it the best in the series, but yes, "vanilla" KH3 SHOULD have been better than KH2.

KH2FM is great, but it's not perfect. A lot of the new scenes they added flat out ruin some of the pacing. Remember when they added a new 10 minute cutscene right before the final Demyx fight? The Roxas/Axel/Purgatory scene is also nice, but it's just kind of... there lol

Finally, you're not completely off base. Fans tend to not like the newest entry in a series. Right now, Final Fantasy 15 is the worst in the series... until Final Fantasy 16 comes out, and then FF15 will be considered a "classic" lol

[MidoriYasha 1]

4 hours ago, Green Sparrow said:

First off, be patient with anyone who says KH3 is the worst game of 2019, because they probably haven't played Jump Force or Crackdown 3 yet

Secondly, I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing KH3 to KH2 at all (vanilla or FM). KH1 gets a pass since it was the first one, but KHFM built off of KH, KH2 built off of KHFM, KH2FM built off of KH2, so it's only natural that people would expect KH3 to build off of KH2FM. The same guy has been directing the entire series, so you would think every entry (or at least every main entry) would improve upon the last. I hope the Final Mix DLC makes it the best in the series, but yes, "vanilla" KH3 SHOULD have been better than KH2.

KH2FM is great, but it's not perfect. A lot of the new scenes they added flat out ruin some of the pacing. Remember when they added a new 10 minute cutscene right before the final Demyx fight? The Roxas/Axel/Purgatory scene is also nice, but it's just kind of... there lol

Finally, you're not completely off base. Fans tend to not like the newest entry in a series. Right now, Final Fantasy 15 is the worst in the series... until Final Fantasy 16 comes out, and then FF15 will be considered a "classic" lol

I just think that the story path  was terrible and the ending was quite a rush and a mess; they could have made a better story, KH2 was better in that way .

However when you talk about FF15, i really think it is a very bad game; i mean , when it came out in the beginning i thought it was nice, but with all the DLCs it just became a commercial thing; like when i played FF13 and i thought it was nice, then the era of DLCs was born and FF13-2 and FF13 Lightning returns were awful.

But when you think of God of War(2018) , it was a total success with tons of awards and it has NO PAY DLC; still can't decide which is the best between GoW 1, 3 and 2018.

 

[drew0594 19]

21 hours ago, AnotherXehanort13 said:

Nope sorry, KH2 is simply the better game. Better mechanics weightier combat new characters better combat cinematics better progression better bosses BETTER FINALE HOLY SHIT Better soundtrack and more touching scenes, I only played the FM version last year (which is godly) and can safely say that vanilla KH2 >>>>>>>>>> vanilla KH3. We got to revisit worlds, Kairi at least did some things useful, the heartbreaking Roxas intro, closer combat, more explorable original worlds, etc

The tromp through The World that Never was, all the way up to the final showdown with Xemnas and his ship, skyscrapers flying everywhere, the giant dragon and the ultimate Sora Riku bro team against Zebra xemnas remains THE single best boss fight in a video game to me, an unforgettable, epic finale you just want to play over and over again. 

 

Shooting down a dragon through an endless cityscape, slicing skyscrapers in goddamn HALF, the incredible pick up in the music as the dragon fuzes into the city, Xemnas whispering doubts in your ear as you and Riku baseball bat skyscrapers in his face, "We shall go together" endless reversals, "FIRE" "ARISE", "GUARD" "Why don't you vanish", Riku hand to hand BODYING xemnas off Sora, deflecting 1000s of lightsabers, and the final dual wielded finishing combo

Anyone who thinks the lame no variety Org XIII Royale and Xehanort boss duel comes even close to that, i just cant get 

 

Honestly I think people are abusing the word nostalgia to dismiss valid reasons why people put KH2 over KH3

At least you can dodge roll in KH3.

[Allwil13 754]

I agree completely. I noticed pretty quickly that a lot of the complaints I've seen about KH3 were also things that people complained about with KH2 when it first came out. Honestly, if you look at the issues people are pointing out, a lot of them are issues that the previous installments had too. 

And this isn't me saying, "yeah, well Kingdom hearts 2 sucked too, guys!" Kingdom Hearts 2 is a fine game. I don't think it's the best in the series (honestly I think Kingdom Hearts 3 was better), but it is solid. What caused this backlash was one simple thing: Hype. All the hype kind of crippled Kingdom Hearts 3 right out of the gate. It was just sooooo built up and people developed these ludicrously unrealistic expectations for it. 

I think this problem will be remedied. What will remedy it? Simple. Time. People need time to simmer down and look at the game objectively. Again, this same thing happened with Kingdom hearts 2 when it first came out. It was not seen as a masterpiece upon release. People had major issues with it. I think the same thing will happen with Kingdom Hearts 3. Give it time. People will come around.

[MidoriYasha 1]

1 hour ago, Allwil13 said:

I agree completely. I noticed pretty quickly that a lot of the complaints I've seen about KH3 were also things that people complained about with KH2 when it first came out. Honestly, if you look at the issues people are pointing out, a lot of them are issues that the previous installments had too. 

And this isn't me saying, "yeah, well Kingdom hearts 2 sucked too, guys!" Kingdom Hearts 2 is a fine game. I don't think it's the best in the series (honestly I think Kingdom Hearts 3 was better), but it is solid. What caused this backlash was one simple thing: Hype. All the hype kind of crippled Kingdom Hearts 3 right out of the gate. It was just sooooo built up and people developed these ludicrously unrealistic expectations for it. 

I think this problem will be remedied. What will remedy it? Simple. Time. People need time to simmer down and look at the game objectively. Again, this same thing happened with Kingdom hearts 2 when it first came out. It was not seen as a masterpiece upon release. People had major issues with it. I think the same thing will happen with Kingdom Hearts 3. Give it time. People will come around.

I just hope it won't be forgotten and unfinished like FF15

[Novayon 192]

Eh, I don't think comparisons are a particularly bad thing tbh. Even to KH2FM. Evolution should be expected in a series, so a game that comes out in 2019, you'd expect better than one from 2007 (KH2FM). 

That said, I'm reserving full judgement until we get the DLC to properly compare. I actually made a video about this, and essentially by comparing different elements of the games, KH2 and KH3 came about level, with KH1 being my favourite. In fact, I had it as KH1>KH2FM>KH3>KH2.

But in the end, it was a very small margin and I wouldn't call KH3 a bad game because it's different to KH2, not at all. 

In my opinion comparing the games is fine, it's what you do with that comparison that matters. If you're using it to call KH3 objectively bad, maybe it isn't the best tool for the job.

[Karxrida 154]

Gonna tackle this from a purely gameplay perspective.

 

I personally think the comparisons to IIFM general gameplay complaints are perfectly valid. III was explicitly designed to follow the mold of II, and game sequels are expected to improve upon their predecessors. I'd also hope a game released in 2019 would know how to function better than one released 12 years beforehand, especially when you're trying to ape it.

 

Also, people bring up complains also lobbied at II vanilla were similar to the ones III is getting, but I think it needs to be pointed out that vanilla II's gameplay issues were comparatively minor; Limits being overpowered and was the only big thing that needed to be addressed. It only took some small tweaks to make IIFM as good as it is now. III, meanwhile, has a ton of methods to break it in half and other assorted problems (e.g. lack of any resource management for Team Attacks, Attraction Flow, etc.), and it would need a major overhaul to fix everything and be put on IIFM's level.

[Potato head harvey 70]

I firmly believe that kh3 is a bad game, but i respect all of your opinions. Also learn to paragraph please. ?