Axel and Saix

[Allwil13 754]

1 minute ago, ienzo628 said:

Probably but the ascot is very minor and likely isn't that big of deal.  I still have to wonder why Lea and Isa are still in their Organization cloaks and not the others, not even Braig.  Lea upon waking up no longer has his signature tattoos.

Yeah, that's another thing I want to know. Why did Lea have those when literally no one else did?  It seems like they appeared when he woke up as a nobody, because when he wakes up as a human in DDD he checks under his eyes in the mirror and realizes that he's human again. 

BTW, Lea desperately needs a wardrobe change. Fingers crossed that he gets one at the end of KH3.

[ienzo628 548]

1 minute ago, Allwil13 said:

Yeah, that's another thing I want to know. Why did Lea have those when literally no one else did?  It seems like they appeared when he woke up as a nobody, because when he wakes up as a human in DDD he checks under his eyes in the mirror and realizes that he's human again. 

BTW, Lea desperately needs a wardrobe change. Fingers crossed that he gets one at the end of KH3.

I was kind irked that Lea had his tattoos disappear.  Why did he and Isa get to wear black coats but everyone else, including Braig didn't?  How long were Isa and Lea in those black coats?  I hope it wasn't over a decade.  Everyone should have just appeared in their Organization cloaks instead of just Lea and Isa in their black coats and Ienzo in his similar BBS attire but with an ascot on.  Also, wasn't there something about Nobodies not aging or something?

[Allwil13 754]

2 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

I was kind irked that Lea had his tattoos disappear.  Why did he and Isa get to wear black coats but everyone else, including Braig didn't?  How long were Isa and Lea in those black coats?  I hope it wasn't over a decade.  Everyone should have just appeared in their Organization cloaks instead of just Lea and Isa in their black coats and Ienzo in his similar BBS attire but with an ascot on.  Also, wasn't there something about Nobodies not aging or something?

Yet another thing I've always wondered about. In BBS Lea and Isa appear to be about the age of Ventus (so I'm thinking maybe 14), but in the Organization they're clearly adults in their early 20's (I'm guessing). But didn't Xehanort's betrayal of the other apprentices happen like a year after BBS? So if Nobodies don't age, then Axel and Saix shouldn't have looked much older than 15 or 16. And maybe I'm wrong, maybe the organization was formed just a couple of years before the start of the original Kingdom Hearts. But that's not what's implied.

[ienzo628 548]

4 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Yet another thing I've always wondered about. In BBS Lea and Isa appear to be about the age of Ventus (so I'm thinking maybe 14), but in the Organization they're clearly adults in their early 20's (I'm guessing). But didn't Xehanort's betrayal of the other apprentices happen like a year after BBS? So if Nobodies don't age, then Axel and Saix shouldn't have looked much older than 15 or 16. And maybe I'm wrong, maybe the organization was formed just a couple of years before the start of the original Kingdom Hearts. But that's not what's implied.

I always thought that Lea and Isa were around fifteen since that's how old I pictured Ventus to be based off of Roxas.  Roxas and KH2 Sora are practically the same age.  Roxas didn't show any signs of aging, he was pretty fifteen since the time of his birth.  So, if Lea and Isa became nobodies around the age of sixteen, they would be around 26 years old, which might match their appearance.  However, that brings to question about them aging.  If Nobodies supposedly don't age like in the case of Roxas, then how come Lea and Isa went from looking like teenagers to mid 20s adults?

[Allwil13 754]

4 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

I always thought that Lea and Isa were around fifteen since that's how old I pictured Ventus to be based off of Roxas.  Roxas and KH2 Sora are practically the same age.  Roxas didn't show any signs of aging, he was pretty fifteen since the time of his birth.  So, if Lea and Isa became nobodies around the age of sixteen, they would be around 26 years old, which might match their appearance.  However, that brings to question about them aging.  If Nobodies supposedly don't age like in the case of Roxas, then how come Lea and Isa went from looking like teenagers to mid 20s adults?

I always just assumed that nobodies age. Axel could maybe pass for being like 17 or 18, though that's still  a pretty big stretch, but Saix is clearly at least 25. At the very least. I'm 26 and he comes off as older than me, lol. But some clarification on this would be nice. That's why I think it could be great if we could get a KH game where Lea is the main playable character. We could learn more about him and fill some of these holes in the lore.

[ienzo628 548]

2 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

I always just assumed that nobodies age. Axel could maybe pass for being like 17 or 18, though that's still  a pretty big stretch, but Saix is clearly at least 25. At the very least. I'm 26 and he comes off as older than me, lol. But some clarification on this would be nice. That's why I think it could be great if we could get a KH game where Lea is the main playable character. We could learn more about him and fill some of these holes in the lore.

Maybe the whole Nobodies age depends on the Nobody.  Namine aged somewhat.  Her dress is shorter KH2 than it was Com/ReCom.  But as for the case of Luxord and Demyx, they might share Roxas's fate and not have aged a day since joining the Organization.  It would be great if we got a gaming guide at least specifying everyone's age.  I don't think we've gotten one since KH2 and even then it was focused on the SKR trio.

[Allwil13 754]

32 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

Maybe the whole Nobodies age depends on the Nobody.  Namine aged somewhat.  Her dress is shorter KH2 than it was Com/ReCom.  But as for the case of Luxord and Demyx, they might share Roxas's fate and not have aged a day since joining the Organization.  It would be great if we got a gaming guide at least specifying everyone's age.  I don't think we've gotten one since KH2 and even then it was focused on the SKR trio.

I think the only official statement we've had regarding anyone's age was in the booklet for the first game. It actually said how old SKR were. And since KH2 took place a year after the events of the first KH, we knew how old they were there. Other than that, age is kind of spotty in this series.

[ienzo628 548]

4 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

I think the only official statement we've had regarding anyone's age was in the booklet for the first game. It actually said how old SKR were. And since KH2 took place a year after the events of the first KH, we knew how old they were there. Other than that, age is kind of spotty in this series.

It sure is.  There is just a lot that doesn't make sense. 

[Kittenz 4,281]

22 hours ago, Allwil13 said:

I think the only official statement we've had regarding anyone's age was in the booklet for the first game. It actually said how old SKR were. And since KH2 took place a year after the events of the first KH, we knew how old they were there. Other than that, age is kind of spotty in this series.

True. For saix and axel I think it was implied that growing a heart allows you to age?

[Allwil13 754]

1 minute ago, Kittenz said:

True. For saix and axel I think it was implied that growing a heart allows you to age?

Yeah, but they were nobodies, so they didn't have hearts. So unless they became nobodies like a year or two before the first Kingdom hearts, they look waaaay too old to be teenagers.

[Kittenz 4,281]

3 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Yeah, but they were nobodies, so they didn't have hearts. So unless they became nobodies like a year or two before the first Kingdom hearts, they look waaaay too old to be teenagers.

Yeah, I still think they grew somehow, it just hasn't been explained

Edited January 4, 2019 by Kittenz

[ienzo628 548]

45 minutes ago, Kittenz said:

Yeah, I still think they grew somehow, it just hasn't been explained

I guess but I still look at Roxas and wonder how come he didn't age during his time in the Organization.  He barely went through any physical changes compared to his equivalent Namine.  They are both Nobodies that came from Sora.  So, I don't get how Namine shows signs of ages like she has longer legs, her feet aren't as big as they in Re:Com, her dress is shorter, and her face has matured somewhat whereas Roxas looks like a carbon copy of Ventus with no physical traits from Sora.  Plus Xion didn't age at all.  They pretty remained looking their 358/2 Days and KH2 selves whereas Sora underwent numerous physical changes from his KH1/Com self to his KH2 self.

KH1 Sora didn't exactly look like he was fourteen in the books.  I would have imagined that Roxas when he was first created would have at least shared KH1 Sora's appearance.  Both Xion and Roxas are taller than KH1 Sora.  I am probably getting off topic.

But perhaps Roxas might be an example of a Nobody not aging whereas Axel and Saix don't.  How could a heart actually impact someone's physical aging?

[Allwil13 754]

1 hour ago, ienzo628 said:

I guess but I still look at Roxas and wonder how come he didn't age during his time in the Organization.  He barely went through any physical changes compared to his equivalent Namine.  They are both Nobodies that came from Sora.  So, I don't get how Namine shows signs of ages like she has longer legs, her feet aren't as big as they in Re:Com, her dress is shorter, and her face has matured somewhat whereas Roxas looks like a carbon copy of Ventus with no physical traits from Sora.  Plus Xion didn't age at all.  They pretty remained looking their 358/2 Days and KH2 selves whereas Sora underwent numerous physical changes from his KH1/Com self to his KH2 self.

KH1 Sora didn't exactly look like he was fourteen in the books.  I would have imagined that Roxas when he was first created would have at least shared KH1 Sora's appearance.  Both Xion and Roxas are taller than KH1 Sora.  I am probably getting off topic.

But perhaps Roxas might be an example of a Nobody not aging whereas Axel and Saix don't.  How could a heart actually impact someone's physical aging?

Well, Roxas was only in the Organization for a year. Sometimes people don't hit a growth spurt for several years and other times they shoot upwards all at once. So maybe it's a biological/chance thing?

Edited January 4, 2019 by Allwil13

[Kittenz 4,281]

55 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Well, Roxas was only in the Organization for a year. Sometimes people don't hit a growth spurt for several years and other times they shoot upwards all at once. So maybe it's a biological/chance thing?

I think that maybe the devs just didn't want to change his appearance. He's going to technically be 16 in 3, but will probably look the same lol

Edited January 4, 2019 by Kittenz

[ienzo628 548]

39 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Well, Roxas was only in the Organization for a year. Sometimes people don't hit a growth spurt for several years and other times they shoot upwards all at once. So maybe it's a biological/chance thing?

Probably but we saw what happened with Sora, he aged drastically from his KH1 self.

 

33 minutes ago, Kittenz said:

I think that maybe the devs just didn't want to chance his appearance. He's going to technically be 16 in 3, but will probably look the same lol

Probably, but I would think they might have came up with some design for Roxas that separates him from looking like a carbon copy of Ventus.

[Allwil13 754]

Y'know, something we also don't know yet is how Isa/Saix got that x-shaped scar on his face. Anyone have any theories? Maybe Lea gave it to him by accident and thats what drove a wedge between them?

[Fates Chance XIII 307]

2 minutes ago, Allwil13 said:

Y'know, something we also don't know yet is how Isa/Saix got that x-shaped scar on his face. Anyone have any theories? Maybe Lea gave it to him by accident and thats what drove a wedge between them?

After reading the Days novel, and seeing more of Saix interactions with Xigbar and Xemnas, I think it's likely that it happened when Saix started trying to climb the Organization leadership ladder.

You get a better sense of the politics of the Organization from the novel.

Like how even though 1-6 were very high ranking, not all of them held the same standing, or were privy to the same information.

Such as Xaldin for instance, even though he is 3, he had no idea the Replica program was even going on and was never in the meetings Xemnas, Xigbar and Saix had where they would discuss what was going on in the Org, the status of various plans and other members.

Xigbar calls Saix a 'Ladder Climber' in the Org and doesnt trust him much if at all.

All of which gives off the feeling that this is a rather recent development with Saix having this position. Also with how keen Axel and Saix were with getting rid of so many high ranking memebers to make it easier for Saix to climb rhe ranks. 

Which would make him having to get Norted and branded seem like a condition of him climbing the ranks.

Though how he was Norted considering that process includes Xehanort putting a piece of his heart in the vessel is regardless of when it happened still a great mystery. Especially considering how adamant Saix is about feeling nothing, and him always being cold and emotionless and ect ect considering if he had a piece of Xehanorts heart in him that would make his behavior kind of odd.

 

 

 

[Allwil13 754]

3 minutes ago, Fates Chance XIII said:

After reading the Days novel, and seeing more of Saix interactions with Xigbar and Xemnas, I think it's likely that it happened when Saix started trying to climb the Organization leadership ladder.

You get a better sense of the politics of the Organization from the novel.

Like how even though 1-6 were very high ranking, not all of them held the same standing, or were privy to the same information.

Such as Xaldin for instance, even though he is 3, he had no idea the Replica program was even going on and was never in the meetings Xemnas, Xigbar and Saix had where they would discuss what was going on in the Org, the status of various plans and other members.

Xigbar calls Saix a 'Ladder Climber' in the Org and doesnt trust him much if at all.

All of which gives off the feeling that this is a rather recent development with Saix having this position. Also with how keen Axel and Saix were with getting rid of so many high ranking memebers to make it easier for Saix to climb rhe ranks. 

Which would make him having to get Norted and branded seem like a condition of him climbing the ranks.

Though how he was Norted considering that process includes Xehanort putting a piece of his heart in the vessel is regardless of when it happened still a great mystery. Especially considering how adamant Saix is about feeling nothing, and him always being cold and emotionless and ect ect considering if he had a piece of Xehanorts heart in him that would make his behavior kind of odd.

Yeah, the Organization rankings have always kind of confused me.Particularly the fact that Saix was number VII and yet he was Xemnas' second in command. 

[KHfan4 106]

Maybe Saix got his scar a la HP style ? (Voldemort tries to kill Harry, ends up making Harry a horcrux, Harry gets a scar) Except its Xehanort and Saix lol

 

Also, with the aging thing, Ienzo/Zexion obviously aged. He was 8 or something in BBS, right? He looked like he was in his late teens or even early twenties in Re:CoM and DDD

I love how us fans are starting to have deep discussions again. It's nice.

Edited January 5, 2019 by KHfan4

[Allwil13 754]

6 hours ago, KHfan4 said:

Maybe Saix got his scar a la HP style ? (Voldemort tries to kill Harry, ends up making Harry a horcrux, Harry gets a scar) Except its Xehanort and Saix lol

 

Also, with the aging thing, Ienzo/Zexion obviously aged. He was 8 or something in BBS, right? He looked like he was in his late teens or even early twenties in Re:CoM and DDD

I love how us fans are starting to have deep discussions again. It's nice.

Yeah, I have noticed that Ienzo aged. In the flashback where we see Xehanort stab Braig with the No Name, we can see Even and Ienzo lying on the floor nearby, and Ienzo is clearly still just a kid. Which makes that whole thing so much more messed up. WHat kind of person does that to a kid??? But yeah, in BBS Ienzo appeared to be around 9 or 10 (at least to me) while in CoM he was about 19 or 20.

Also, it is nice to have deep discussions like this. I love sharing opinions and theories and it's great to have a community that's so accepting of everyone's thoughts and opinions.

[Fates Chance XIII 307]

On 1/5/2019 at 4:26 AM, Allwil13 said:

Yeah, I have noticed that Ienzo aged. In the flashback where we see Xehanort stab Braig with the No Name, we can see Even and Ienzo lying on the floor nearby, and Ienzo is clearly still just a kid. Which makes that whole thing so much more messed up. WHat kind of person does that to a kid??? But yeah, in BBS Ienzo appeared to be around 9 or 10 (at least to me) while in CoM he was about 19 or 20.

Also, it is nice to have deep discussions like this. I love sharing opinions and theories and it's great to have a community that's so accepting of everyone's thoughts and opinions.

I remember reading that Zexion was the youngest memeber until Roxas joined so that gives us a start for his age. I dont imagine hes that much older than Roxas and them- probably~18-20. 

On the if Nobodies age front I remember this changed along the way. Nomura was asked once in an interview i think back before BBS if Nobodies aged and he said yes they did age. Even without a heart, the body would continue to age.

Then after BBS came out and we learned that if you kill a nobody and heartless the person is reformed, people started to ask again if Nobodies aged again because of Xemnas' connection to Terra. Because that would mean Xemnas body (which is Terras body) had aged and therefore if Terra came back he'd be nearly in his 30s. 

That was when he changed it to no they dont age. Which i assume happened so Terra would be able to come back not having aged a day to keep him closer in age to everyone else. 

However it's pretty clear they do age just from their heights and looks and the fact that they came back in the same aged bodies.

I also just finished the Days novel and at one point Axel acknowledges that he is about 10 yrs older than Roxas. 

I personally would be fine with Terra coming back aged because it wouldnt make sense for him not too have aged like everyone else. They are always calling him a vessel, and he clearly looks older than Terranort so it would be kindof annoying if he came back looking the same as he did in BBS. Maybe they'll explain it, probably not. I cant imagine them keeping him looking like Xemnas just with brown hair.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Fates Chance XIII

[ienzo628 548]

On 1/5/2019 at 7:26 AM, Allwil13 said:

Yeah, I have noticed that Ienzo aged. In the flashback where we see Xehanort stab Braig with the No Name, we can see Even and Ienzo lying on the floor nearby, and Ienzo is clearly still just a kid. Which makes that whole thing so much more messed up. WHat kind of person does that to a kid??? But yeah, in BBS Ienzo appeared to be around 9 or 10 (at least to me) while in CoM he was about 19 or 20.

Also, it is nice to have deep discussions like this. I love sharing opinions and theories and it's great to have a community that's so accepting of everyone's thoughts and opinions.

Ienzo was also an orphan.  He also seemed to be closer to Even in BBS and Lexaeus in Com.  So, those two likely acted as parental figures to the young boy.  Maybe, they had a closer relationship to Ienzo's parents.  I don't know about Ienzo's parents but maybe Even was close to Ienzo's father or mother because they were both always working in the lab together.  I can kind of see Ienzo's father probably being a guard and his mother being a scientist.  Perhaps, Even grew to have some sort of romantic relationship with his mom but stood his ground because she was already married. 

[Kittenz 4,281]

On 1/10/2019 at 7:22 PM, ienzo628 said:

Ienzo was also an orphan.  He also seemed to be closer to Even in BBS and Lexaeus in Com.  So, those two likely acted as parental figures to the young boy.  Maybe, they had a closer relationship to Ienzo's parents.  I don't know about Ienzo's parents but maybe Even was close to Ienzo's father or mother because they were both always working in the lab together.  I can kind of see Ienzo's father probably being a guard and his mother being a scientist.  Perhaps, Even grew to have some sort of romantic relationship with his mom but stood his ground because she was already married. 

That's actually a good fanfic idea you got there. 

Ansem the Wise also seems to have acted like a guardian to Ienzo. At least until his exile. Some have theorized that, as kids, Kairi and Ienzo might have met or played together, because Kairi was let inside the castle with her grandma, they were in the library and Ienzo probably studied there.

 

On 1/10/2019 at 6:40 PM, Fates Chance XIII said:

I remember reading that Zexion was the youngest memeber until Roxas joined so that gives us a start for his age. I dont imagine hes that much older than Roxas and them- probably~18-20. 

On the if Nobodies age front I remember this changed along the way. Nomura was asked once in an interview i think back before BBS if Nobodies aged and he said yes they did age. Even without a heart, the body would continue to age.

Then after BBS came out and we learned that if you kill a nobody and heartless the person is reformed, people started to ask again if Nobodies aged again because of Xemnas' connection to Terra. Because that would mean Xemnas body (which is Terras body) had aged and therefore if Terra came back he'd be nearly in his 30s. 

That was when he changed it to no they dont age. Which i assume happened so Terra would be able to come back not having aged a day to keep him closer in age to everyone else. 

However it's pretty clear they do age just from their heights and looks and the fact that they came back in the same aged bodies.

I also just finished the Days novel and at one point Axel acknowledges that he is about 10 yrs older than Roxas. 

I personally would be fine with Terra coming back aged because it wouldnt make sense for him not too have aged like everyone else. They are always calling him a vessel, and he clearly looks older than Terranort so it would be kindof annoying if he came back looking the same as he did in BBS. Maybe they'll explain it, probably not. I cant imagine them keeping him looking like Xemnas just with brown hair.

Yeah, Ienzo looks like he's in his late teens/early twenties. For Lea, in BBS, him and Isa look around the same age as Ventus. Confirming that they are ten years older than Roxas. Because Roxas is the same age as Sora, this means that Lea and Isa are around 25/26. 

Terra is kind of a wild card, but I think they will pull something so that he hasn't aged. Having only one member of TAV age would be strange. From the trailer, Terranort also looks no different than before.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Kittenz

[Allwil13 754]

2 hours ago, Kittenz said:

Yeah, Ienzo looks like he's in his late teens/early twenties. For Lea, in BBS, him and Isa look around the same age as Ventus. Confirming that they are ten years older than Roxas. Because Roxas is the same age as Sora, this means that Lea and Isa are around 25/26. 

Terra is kind of a wild card, but I think they will pull something so that he hasn't aged. Having only one member of TAV age would be strange. From the trailer, Terranort also looks no different than before.

Terranort probably got yanked out of a certain point in time like Young Xemnas, Xemnas and Ansem the Seeker of Darkness. That's what I've been assuming ever since I saw him in the trailers, personally.

[ienzo628 548]

9 hours ago, Kittenz said:

That's actually a good fanfic idea you got there. 

Ansem the Wise also seems to have acted like a guardian to Ienzo. At least until his exile. Some have theorized that, as kids, Kairi and Ienzo might have met or played together, because Kairi was let inside the castle with her grandma, they were in the library and Ienzo probably studied there.

It's possible.  I also heard that Kairi was close to Lea.