My issue with the New Seekers

[KiraNort 49]

Outside of YX, Ansem and Xemnas, doesn’t it kinda make the introduction of Time Travel pointless if they’re literally the only ones time travelling? I mean you could easily just say Vexen make replicas of the latter two given he’s Norted.

 

also, I’d replace Demyx with Xaldin, given he was one of the most ruthless of the nobodies.

[clatter411 75]

Yeah the time travel concept was a huge mistake that shouldn't have been introduced to the series. It's too OP of a power and there's a million ways it can complicate things. I get why they introduced it, but they should have come up with another method to explain why Xemnas ans Ansem can exist at the same time as MX. Maybe something like, MX is so powerful he can sustain their existences with his power. Or maybe since he's been separated before they are separate existences that exist inside him that he just re separated from himself. But that's just me spit balling. 

[Chasm 108]

12 hours ago, KiraNort said:

Outside of YX, Ansem and Xemnas, doesn’t it kinda make the introduction of Time Travel pointless if they’re literally the only ones time travelling? I mean you could easily just say Vexen make replicas of the latter two given he’s Norted.

 

also, I’d replace Demyx with Xaldin, given he was one of the most ruthless of the nobodies.

I wouldn't say it was pointless. I believe Nomura is just hitting all of the concepts one can in a said universe early on in the series. We know about Light, Darkness, Death, Rebirth, Memories, Bodies, Hearts, Dreams, and now Time. These are all just rules that are being established in the universe. Time Travel can happen in the next Saga, but i find it to be incredibly limited. Especially when you can't really change the timeline unless it was already meant to happen/already happened.

[ienzo628 548]

4 minutes ago, Chasm said:

I wouldn't say it was pointless. I believe Nomura is just hitting all of the concepts one can in a said universe early on in the series. We know about Light, Darkness, Death, Rebirth, Memories, Bodies, Hearts, Dreams, and now Time. These are all just rules that are being established in the universe. Time Travel can happen in the next Saga, but i find it to be incredibly limited. Especially when you can't really change the timeline unless it was already meant to happen/already happened.

We haven't encountered "Space" yet as in different "dimensions" though I don't know how Nomura would handle it.

[Potato head harvey 70]

4 hours ago, ienzo628 said:

We haven't encountered "Space" yet as in different "dimensions" though I don't know how Nomura would handle it.

Space and dimension are two very different things just saying. Space, in a cosmic sense, is just matter, which i guess technically has been a thing since the very first kh game. The datascape might count as a pocket dimension though (?).

[ienzo628 548]

3 minutes ago, Potato head harvey said:

Space and dimension are two very different things just saying. Space, in a cosmic sense, is just matter, which i guess technically has been a thing since the very first kh game. The datascape might count as a pocket dimension though (?).

We kind of got that with the worlds we visit, I suppose and we also have Xigbar that controls space as an element.  So, I guess we already had space down.

[clatter411 75]

 

4 hours ago, Chasm said:

I wouldn't say it was pointless. I believe Nomura is just hitting all of the concepts one can in a said universe early on in the series. We know about Light, Darkness, Death, Rebirth, Memories, Bodies, Hearts, Dreams, and now Time. These are all just rules that are being established in the universe. Time Travel can happen in the next Saga, but i find it to be incredibly limited. Especially when you can't really change the timeline unless it was already meant to happen/already happened.

It's nice to think he's hitting all the concepts but I really don't think that's the case. I think it's more a matter of Nomura has ideas he wants to implement in the series. Some of these include characters that aren't around for one reason or another and he's using whatever methods possible to include these concepts even if they don't make sense or make the in game universe/storyline unnecessarily complicated. It also opens a Pandora's box of possible loopholes.

 

4 hours ago, ienzo628 said:

We haven't encountered "Space" yet as in different "dimensions" though I don't know how Nomura would handle it.

I don't think alternate dimensions are going to be included. Unless you mean the Realm of Darkness, Realm of Light, etc. Since we already have different worlds each with different rules and visual styles the concept of dimensions seems meaningless since the alternate worlds sort of covers that already. Not to mention the fact it  complicates things. Definitely not as much as time travel does though.

[ienzo628 548]

2 minutes ago, clatter411 said:

 

It's nice to think he's hitting all the concepts but I really don't think that's the case. I think it's more a matter of Nomura has ideas he wants to implement in the series. Some of these include characters that aren't around for one reason or another and he's using whatever methods possible to include these concepts even if they don't make sense or make the in game universe/storyline unnecessarily complicated. It also opens a Pandora's box of possible loopholes.

 

I don't think alternate dimensions are going to be included. Unless you mean the Realm of Darkness, Realm of Light, etc. Since we already have different worlds each with different rules and visual styles the concept of dimensions seems meaningless since the alternate worlds sort of covers that already. Not to mention the fact it  complicates things. Definitely not as much as time travel does though.

Introducing time travel was just more puzzling to the story as a whole.

Edited December 24, 2018 by ienzo628

[clatter411 75]

11 minutes ago, ienzo628 said:

Introducing time travel was just more puzzling to the story as a whole.

Exactly! DDD is one of my least favorite games in the series because it introduced all of these overly difficult concepts that have huge loopholes. So I really hope Nomura limits the use of it for future games.

[ienzo628 548]

1 hour ago, clatter411 said:

Exactly! DDD is one of my least favorite games in the series because it introduced all of these overly difficult concepts that have huge loopholes. So I really hope Nomura limits the use of it for future games.

It just seems like time travel at least the way it is handled is kind of sloppy.  I remember the white doors in KH2 kind of introducing something to time travel.

[Potato head harvey 70]

10 hours ago, ienzo628 said:

It just seems like time travel at least the way it is handled is kind of sloppy.  I remember the white doors in KH2 kind of introducing something to time travel.

Then there's the whole stop spell from kh1 if ya wanna go even farther back.

[ienzo628 548]

1 hour ago, Potato head harvey said:

Then there's the whole stop spell from kh1 if ya wanna go even farther back.

Yeah, KH kind of already has everything. 

[PrinceNoctis 1,011]

On 12/23/2018 at 7:09 AM, KiraNort said:

Outside of YX, Ansem and Xemnas, doesn’t it kinda make the introduction of Time Travel pointless if they’re literally the only ones time travelling? I mean you could easily just say Vexen make replicas of the latter two given he’s Norted.

 

also, I’d replace Demyx with Xaldin, given he was one of the most ruthless of the nobodies.

Time travel definitely wasn't necessary to explain how Ansem and Xemnas are back. That being said, I think Nomura also wanted to make a point that ALL the games in the series were connected through Time Travel and that everything was leading up to what's going to go down in KHIII. It was basically a way to tie everything together so that's why I think it's still kinda relevant. And yeah, I was hoping we'd see more Xehanort incarnations from the past as new Seekers like Apprentice Xehanort, Terra-Xehanort, Riku when he was possessed by Ansem, No Heart, etc. And then they could've added a few old Organization members such as Marluxia and Xaldin to complete the line-up, but since they went with old Organization members for the most part...the time traveling has lost a lot of weight in the story, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[KiraNort 49]

15 minutes ago, PrinceNoctis said:

Time travel definitely wasn't necessary to explain how Ansem and Xemnas are back. That being said, I think Nomura also wanted to make a point that ALL the games in the series were connected through Time Travel and that everything was leading up to what's going to go down in KHIII. It was basically a way to tie everything together so that's why I think it's still kinda relevant. And yeah, I was hoping we'd see more Xehanort incarnations from the past as new Seekers like Apprentice Xehanort, Terra-Xehanort, Riku when he was possessed by Ansem, No Heart, etc. And then they could've added a few old Organization members such as Marluxia and Xaldin to complete the line-up, but since they went with old Organization members for the most part...the time traveling has lost a lot of weight in the story, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Wouldn’t you agree that Apprentice Xehanort is basically just a older Terranort? They’re not exactly separate entities

[PrinceNoctis 1,011]

9 minutes ago, KiraNort said:

Wouldn’t you agree that Apprentice Xehanort is basically just a older Terranort? They’re not exactly separate entities

Yeah I know, but since it's the same thing with Master Xehanort and Young Xehanort. I think Apprentice Xehanort and Terranort are distinct enough on the level of their character design, personalities, mindsets and such, to be separate organization members.

[Chasm 108]

One thing i'll have to disagree on is Time Travel making things more complicated. The rules were stated and things can't be changed. How's that complicated?

[ocean's rage 772]

for all we know there could be lot more time travelling than just for those 3 or 4 characters 

still i have to say i didnt find the way time travel worked complicated 

[clatter411 75]

3 hours ago, Chasm said:

One thing i'll have to disagree on is Time Travel making things more complicated. The rules were stated and things can't be changed. How's that complicated?

It's not the rules of time travel that are complicated. It's the things time travel allows that makes things complicated. 

[Potato head harvey 70]

3 hours ago, Chasm said:

One thing i'll have to disagree on is Time Travel making things more complicated. The rules were stated and things can't be changed. How's that complicated?

It's just that there is now a ton of plotholes, namely stuff like 'why put a piece of your heart in terra in bbs when you could just find young baby version of terra and put a piece of your heart in that version of terra. Stuff like that if that makes sense.

[ocean's rage 772]

16 minutes ago, Potato head harvey said:

It's just that there is now a ton of plotholes, namely stuff like 'why put a piece of your heart in terra in bbs when you could just find young baby version of terra and put a piece of your heart in that version of terra. Stuff like that if that makes sense.

cause he wanted a younger body to live to see the keyblade war and being in the body of a baby would not be practical for any of his schemes 

[SweetYetSalty 330]

I'm pretty indifferent to the New Seekers choices on who is in. Xemnas says most of the Organization is not fit to be vessels and now here we are about to enter KHIII and most of the Seekers are the original Organization XIII lol. Like PrinceNoctis said, I was expecting alternate versions of Xehanort, like Terranort, potentially Apprentice Xehanort if he counts as his own being, No Heart, Adult-In-His-Prime Xehanort, and my personal favorite Baby Xehanort.

Having former members from the old Organization XIII is fine but some of these choices make me scratch my head. Xigbar, Saix, Vexen, and even Luxord make sense. But Marluxia, Larxene, and Demyx? I love those three but none of them strike me as trustworthy or motivated enough to be a Xehanort vessels. That's not even addressing the time travel stuff.

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by SweetYetSalty

[Potato head harvey 70]

2 hours ago, ocean's rage said:

cause he wanted a younger body to live to see the keyblade war and being in the body of a baby would not be practical for any of his schemes 

That's just it though. Possess baby terra, wait a couple years, boom. You just got that vessel you wanted without having to go through all that fighting and lingering will stuff.

[Chasm 108]

3 hours ago, Potato head harvey said:

That's just it though. Possess baby terra, wait a couple years, boom. You just got that vessel you wanted without having to go through all that fighting and lingering will stuff.

It wouldn't work. The whole purpose of Xehanort manipulating Terra was to get Terra to foster his darkness. Once Terras darkness was "high" enough, he was ripe for the picking. 

[ienzo628 548]

7 hours ago, Potato head harvey said:

It's just that there is now a ton of plotholes, namely stuff like 'why put a piece of your heart in terra in bbs when you could just find young baby version of terra and put a piece of your heart in that version of terra. Stuff like that if that makes sense.

Not to mention that MX lamented his incoming demise in the Xehanort files of BBS.  Yet, he comes back in DDD and reveals himself and all of his vessels.  Plus, I hated how Terra was treated in BBS; his, Aqua's and Ventus's relationship didn't feel genuine.  Aqua came off as a babysitter, Terra was kind of a gullible brute, and Ventus is just some dumb little kid that should just pipe down, go home and let the adults sort things out.

Sure MX could have just put his heart into Braig and had Even create a bunch of replicas.